Theoryland of the Wheel of Time

TOR Questions of the Week Part III (Verbatim)

It seems that Elaida, leading the Sitters who arrest Siuan Sanche, must be a Sitter herself, yet she was just a few months returned from her position in Caemlyn. Was she actually a Sitter and if so when was she raised? Can you also clarify her change of heart on the Black Ajah from warning the three girls about them in The Dragon Reborn to violently denying their existence in later books?

Elaida wasn't a Sitter when she led the arrest of Siuan, but she had organized it, managed to arrange for a rump Hall of the Tower to vote on deposing Siuan and raising her in Siuan's place. By the time Siuan was arrested, Elaida was the "legal" Amrylin Seat, so of course she was leading the Sitters.

As for her change of heart of the Black Ajah, she bounces on whether or not she believes in their existence. When she has convinced herself that they do exist, she is vehement on the subject, but uneasy over Darkfriend sisters, and so manages to convince herself that she was mistaken, whereupon she becomes vehement about their non-existence. But then she becomes uneasy over the possibility that they do exist after all and convinces herself that they really do after all, whereupon.... I have even had a character in the White Tower comment that sometimes Elaida doesn't seem to know from one day to the next whether or not she believes in the Black Ajah.

----Corrected version----

CORRECTION: Answering these questions, I have always taken the assumption that I knew the books well enough that I did not need to refer to my notes. My answer for the Week 20 Question showed that I was mistaken. I said that Elaida was never a Sitter, but no sooner was that answer posted than my assistant Maria, who also is a fan, came to me with the relevant passage where Elaida is mentioned as a Sitter. I went to my notes, and after a lot of checking, I found the following in a file working out exactly how some points were to be structured and making sure that I had all the details covered. Somehow, I had never incorporated it into the base notes, perhaps because it seemed such a small matter, Elaida having been a Sitter for such a short time and then only as prelude to replacing Siuan and Amyrlin.

“Returning to the White Tower, Elaida quickly became convinced that Siuan and Moiraine were engaged in a scheme that involved Rand al’Thor. Indeed, she had suspicions of this before departing Caemlyn for Tar Valon. Moiraine’s presence in Tar Valon had not escaped her, nor that Moiraine had been seen with Rand. If, as seemed the more likely, he was simply a man who could channel who Siuan and Moiraine intended to make use of as a false Dragon, then it was a scheme that was extremely dangerous to the Tower. Revelation of such involvement could easily shatter the Tower’s prestige, and with it the influence that was the primary cornerstone of the Tower’s influence in the world. And if he was indeed the Dragon Reborn, Elaida certainly had no confidence in Siuan’s ability to handle the him, as surely the Dragon Reborn would need to be handled, guided and directed, not to mention controlled. Helped by her long-standing personal animosity toward Siuan and Moiraine, Elaida came to the conclusion that Siuan must be removed for the good of the Tower. This was not something that could be accomplished by an ordinary sister, however the stepping down of a Red Sitter (Amira Moselle) gave her an opening, and she managed to get herself chosen as Amira’s replacement in the Hall of the Tower.

In large part this was because of Galina Casban’s support as head of the Red Ajah, Galina having her own reasons to take any chance to pull Siuan down and, of course, favoring anything that would give the Amyrlin Seat to the Red Ajah again after so long. Galina made no attempt to attain the Amyrlin Seat herself because she knew she had little or no chance of being raised. Elaida, who had been so long away from Tar Valon and thus remained out of the political currents of the Tower, not to mention the favorable mention she had received for her guidance of Queen Morgase and Andor, was another matter.

Once Elaida had a chair in the Hall, it was a relatively simple matter to identify the Sitters who seemed most likely to stand for deposing Siuan, since a number of Sitters were uneasy at best about what Siuan was up to. Her support in the Hall had eroded sufficiently by The Great Hunt that she had opposition to her journey to Shienar. As a Sitter, Elaida was able to call a sitting of the Hall while making sure that only the Sitters she wanted to attend actually received notification. Elaida is a forceful and effective speaker, and her arguments to this bare quorum in favor of deposing Siuan were also her campaign for being raised to the Amyrlin Seat herself, so the vote to depose Siuan was followed immediately by the vote to make Elaida the new Amyrlin. She did not expect the violent reaction that would come from this. She had not had access to the secret histories for very long at this point, so her view was that of most sisters. The Tower had always acceded to the will of the Hall however sisters might grumble. Like many others, she was blind-sided by what she thought she knew.”

So there it is. I offer my apologies for giving an erroneous answer. From now on, I’ll be sure to check my notes.

black ajah, hall of the tower, elaida, siuan, sitters, mafo, maria, rj's notes,

East of the Sun Con - Karl-Johan Norén (Paraphrased)

The question about if any Amyrlin has been non-dramatically deposed he answered with "Read and Find Out". He though said that there was information deep inside the White Tower archives only accessible to the Amyrlin, the Keeper and the Sitters, apart from the librarians tending them. The mere notion of knowing...that such information existed would be considered a crime for other Aes Sedai.

aes sedai, white tower, amyrlins, tower law, thirteenth depository, hall of the tower, sitters, keeper of the chronicles,

TPOD Signing Report - John Hamby (Paraphrased)

And the silly trivial 'I-just-want-to-know-without-a-doubt-question', which almost got me more than I had planned.

I asked him whether Delana Mosalaine had been raised to the Hall as Sitter before the Tower split or after. Karl-Johan and Jed probably recall our analysis of the Halls a month ago.

I probably pronounced the name wrong because he just looked at me. I prompted by saying, "Delana, the Gray Sitter who we know is Black. Siuan's old friend from novicedom."

RJ started to say something but was trying to find the right words when I foolishly helped him out by saying, "Delana was raised at Salidar". He said yes and laughed. I tried then to follow up with asking him if she was an important aspect of Siuan's pattern in the young Sitters. RAFO was the response.

delana, salidar, sitters, black ajah,

DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)

Who was the third Blue Ajah Sitter who didn't make it to Salidar? What became of her?

Well, she died. She was one of the ones who was killed after Siuan was deposed and everything went to hell in a handbasket inside the Tower.

blue ajah, salidar, siuan, white tower, sitters,

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

For Gyrehead, Foretelling is not related to strength. The weakest possible channeler could Foretell as strongly as Elaida or Nicola, or perhaps even more so, depending entirely on the strength of his or her Talent for Foretelling.

The three Red Sitters were sent into exile in 985 NE under Marith Jaen.

Yes, Morgase has slowed, and that is exactly why there is so much emphasis on her looking only ten years older than Perrin when she has children the ages of Elayne and Gawyn.

Regarding the percentage of women who could test for the shawl, it would be 62.5% of the bellcurve. I'll leave the maths to you for an idle moment. The question doesn't really apply to men, since the Black Tower accepts anyone who can learn to channel, but if the White Tower limits were applied, it would be roughly 65.4% of the bellcurve. Although, considering the effectiveness question, they should probably set it at the same 62.5%. Again, the maths are all yours. Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels. Remember to integrate this with what I've said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.

foretelling, talents, aes sedai, channeler strength, red ajah, sitters, morgase, slowing, amyrlins,

Robert Jordan's Blog: IT'S BEEN AWHILE (Verbatim)

For mmwhiterose, Siuan was raised to the Amrylin Seat so young for several reasons, most of which I have pointed out pretty clearly in the books, I think. The preceding years had seen a number of Amrylins die after only a short time in office. In New Spring: the Novel I showed one reason why the pool of potential Amrylins, Aes Sedai with experience, was reduced over part of that same period. And then there was the impasse over several candidates, none of whom could gain enough support, so that Siuan became a compromise candidate who was raised in part because various Sitters thought they could influence or control such a young Amrylin. Just as it is unusual for a sister to be raised to Sitter before she had worn the shawl for a hundred years, it is unusual for a sister to be raised to the Amrylin Seat short of having worn the shawl for a hundred and fifty to two hundred years, and above two hundred years is most common.

siuan, amyrlins, white tower, new spring, sitters,

TGS Book Tour, NYC Stormleader Dinner - Ted Herman (Paraphrased)

Stated that the Ajah Heads in the White Tower conspired to send Sitters to Salidar who would speed up reconciliation, but not draw suspicion due to being supporters of Elaida previously. They chose young Sitters in the Tower as placeholders. However some of the Sitters who left the Tower went of their own accord.

The Ajah Heads for the reunited Ajahs will likely be the ones who led their Ajahs before the split. Will be determined quietly and is Ajah business only.

white tower, salidar, aes sedai, ajahs, sitters,

JordanCon 2013 - Q&A with Maria (Verbatim)

Do you know the name of the third Blue Sitter that died (in Elaida's coup)?

I have it somewhere in my computer—I am almost positive—but I can never remember it.

blue ajah, sitters, hall of the tower,

JordanCon 2013 - Q&A with Maria (Verbatim)

So, what happened to Talene?

I don't know.

black ajah, sitters, unsolved mysteries,