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Twist On Asmodean's Demise

by Tamyrlin: 1999-03-13 | 5 out of 10 (4 votes)

Before Winter's Heart - Archive Only: Asmodean's Demise

Let's consider that Robert Jordan said that the answer is in the books that have already been written. He is also surprised that we continue to wonder , when he knows that it is right there.* First the facts:(many or all of which you probably have heard, seen, or know a thousand times over)
Aginor- killed by Rand in Book 1
Bathamel- killed by Rand in Book 2
Rahvin- killed by Rand in Book 5-by balefire, who knows how far back his existence was erased from the WOT.
Be'lal- killed by Moraine in Book 3
Ishamael- killed by Rand in Book 3
Moghedien- caught by Nynaeve in Tel'aran'rhiod, they both were present at Rahvins death unable to channel without Elayne or Nynaeve knowing. She did know where Asmodean was and she did send eight of the eleven Black Ajah off so technically one could have been sent to Caemlyn, but very unlikely since Asmodean did recognize the person he saw behind the door.
Demandred- When he visits the Dark One he truly believes that Asmodean and Lanfear have disappeared. He said this happened, "Yesterday." Meaning that he found out the same day that not only Lanfear had disappeared but also Asmodean. Obviously he has a spy very close to Rand among the Aiel. Reasoning is-only the Aiel were with Rand when he "moved" into Caemlyn the first day. Or who would be close enough to Rand every day including that day to know that Asmodean wasn't there.
Semirhage- In Book 6, page 143, she is speaking to herself and says that Asmodean is a traitor "but he really had vanished."
Mesanna- To this point she hasn't made any comments regarding Asmodean therefore RJ's comments wouldn't make sense.
Shadar Haran, Slayer, Moridin- RJ gives no reason to believe at any time before Asmodean's demise and after as far as I am concerned, that one of our three mysterious players had any part in the murder.
Padan Fain- Again, RJ gives us absolutely no reason to believe that he had part in Asmodean's death.
Again, think, RJ says that it is right there in plain view, the evidence is in the books, therefore not something that the characters planned without ever mentioning something that would clue us in.

Okay now we can consider the last three who just might have motive and who have not come out in their thoughts proclaiming that Asmodean has disappeared.
Fact- None of the remaining forsaken have ever tried to take Rand out or even thought to get within arms length of Lews Therin because of how he has systematically taken out one after another. This being the reason that Lanfears little deal was so tempting.
Graendal- I would like to rule her out. First of all RJ has her say so many times that Lews Therin probably killed Asmodean, Lanfear, and possibly Moghedien. These references in LoC- "Myself, I think Lews Therin killed them (Asmodean, Lanfear, Moghedien). There are rumors out of Cairhien about Lanfear dying at Lews Therin's hands the same day he killed Rahvin." "So many of us has died confronting him...And Lanfear and Asmodean, whatever you believe. Possibly Moghedien." "Asmodean and Lanfear are dead, and I am sure Moghedien must be, too. She was surprised to hear her own voice, hoarse and unsteady (showing fear of Lews Therin and of what she thinks he has done up to this point.) But she never spoke at anytime of killing Asmodean and REMEMBER-none of the forsaken knew, other than Lanfear, that Asmodean was blocked, it describes his abilities as a trickle of the power. They believed that he had gone over on his own accord in full strength. It isn't her, there is no proof that she ever desired to kill Asmodean nor that she knew that Asmodean would be going to Caemlyn with Rand that day. The decision that Asmodean would go was only made the morning of the killing. Mat killed the Aiel Melindhra when she found out he was going to Camelyn the next day-obviously she was to report to Sammael but didn't. Sorry, no conclusive evidence that fits RJ's pattern.
Sammael- I would like to rule Sammael out. First of all, his minion Melindhra who was reporting for him, was killed before she could tell him that Rand was going to Caemlyn the next day. RJ obviously put that part into the book to suggest the Sammael would not know where Rand was going. His only desire is to be the last Forsaken, to become nae'blis and to kill Lews Therin once and for all. I believe that he only agreed to be the bait because he had a way out, an escape. RJ gives no reason that Sammael would have to know what Rand was going to do next. Also, RJ again has Sammael showing real emotion when he says, "And why would he kill Asmodean? I would if I could find him, but he has gone over to al'Thor. Trembling with anger." Also he asks where al'Thor is hiding Asmodean. C'mon, RJ doesn't work like this. Sammael believed that he was still the bait.
Okay my last point and my theory...
How many times has RJ made reference to something that might happen in one book and then it happens? Hmm... didn't the Amyrlin Seat Siuan Sanche say to herself that she would probably be stilled if the Tower found out about her and Moraine's plans? Didn't Rand say to himself that it couldn't be him the one who Moraine was looking for? Doesn't Moraine say to Egwene that she is so strong in the OP that she might be the Amyrlin one day? RJ is master of coincidence and also foreshadowing major events with idle comments. If you don't believe me or if you think that this is unbased in any fact, I plan on reading all of the books again making a list of each instance when this occurs. Now, how about this one in Book 4 page 184- Lanfear is talking to Rand : "Kneel to the Great Lord, and he will set you above all others. He will leave you free to reign as you will, so long as you bend knee to him only once. To acknowledge him. No more than that. He told me this. Asmodean will teach you to wield the Power without it killing you, teach you what you can do with it. Let me help you. We can destroy the others, the Great Lord will not care. We can destroy all of them, even Asmodean, once he has taught you all you need to know. You and I can rule the world together...(then speaking of the two great sa'angrael she says) we could challenge the Great Lord himself."
Now Facts:
Lanfear is the only one to ever mention teaching Rand how to use the OP with Asmodeans help. Conclusion-Lanfear blocks Asmodean for Rand to teach him how to use the one power, amazing.
Lanfear mentions getting a hold of the two greatest sa'angrael.
Conclusion-Rand obtains both in Rhuidean, amazing.
Lanfear lies to the other Forsaken and then establishes plans to catch Rand when in reality she still wishes for Rand and herself to rule the world.
Conclusion-Rand ends up taking Rahvin and possibly Sammael out inside of visa versa, amazing.
Lanfear is the only one who knows that Asmodean is blocked therefore easy to kill.
Conclusion-Asmodean, a very powerful Forsaken, is approached and killed, amazing.
Lanfear is the one in charge of the Seachan.
Conclusion-The Seachan begin a more strategic and harsh attack in book 6 and 7 on the Western and Southernmost cities. Hmmm, Lanfear is [angry] and goes off to plan her final attack against her lover who wants nothing of her now. Thinking more calmly she hopes to make everyone think that she is dead to keep the advantage, amazing.
Asmodean' last thought in FoH is "He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead...for what she had done to him."
Conclusion-Asmodean opens a small door to the wine pantry or on the way to it and he sees someone who makes him explain incredulously the blood draining from his face, "You?". Let's see, the dead coming back to life, the woman he hates for blocking him, who he had just thanked that she was dead and all of a sudden behind a door she is waiting for him, kind of ironic, amazing.
Slayer can go in and out of the "Land of snakes and foxes as he chooses", evil seems to be able to do so, even Birgitte knew of Finnland.
Conclusion-Lanfear leaves Moraine for dead and leaves Finnland at her will, amazing.
Lanfear is the only character to mention wanting to kill Asmodean after he taught Rand to control the power.
Conclusion-Rand has learned to control the power so it doesn't kill him and Lanfear decides to take away that asset and licks her wounds on her way back to Seachan leaving the final battle with Lews Therin for later, amazing.
I'm sorry, but this is typical RJ. He almost always will in some way or another mention events like this prior to their occurrence. If part of Lanfears statement has come true, all of it will, and did. It is right there, no hiding this one in events that were never a part of the book in the first place. Lanfear had every reason to kill Asmodean, to know exactly where he was (she did block him) and would have the ability to instantly be there. All other choices are based on unsaid words, unthought thoughts, and "unoccurred" occurrences.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 1999-03-13

2

Matt: 1999-03-14

Ok, now I've seen some pretty loony ideas on who killed asmodean, but never before have I seen someone list loony "facts" in support of their argument. The Tamyrlin states that Lanfear is in command of the seanchan in support of his theory that she killed asmodean. Ok, I wouldn't be apposed to the idea of lanfear killing asmodean, as a matter of fact, it makes perfect sense, except for one thing, what has lanfear been doing for the past 2 books? She's certainly not in charge of the seanchan, if there are any forsaken involved on that little front, I'd have to say it's demandred(see sammael's quote about dem. and "events in the south" and proxies, the only events I see going on in the south invovle seanchan invasions.). So, lanfear would make perfect sense as the killer to someone who has just finished reading tFoH, but after reading quite a few forsaken gatherings in LoC primarily, graendal emerges as a very, very logical candidate for asmodean's killer. ! at this point it's hard to make a definite choice in the matter of asmodean's death, but the farther the series progresses without lanfear's appearance, the more likely graendal is the job of offing asmodean.

3

Tamyrlin: 1999-03-14

Hmmm...loony list of facts in support of a loony theory...huh. I guess I will have to prove that Lanfear is the most logical Forsaken that would be leading the Seachan. Actually I know just about where the reference is actually in TFoH to prove the point. I will definitely get back to you about that one