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emandred's Identity Still a Mystery

by WinespringBrother: 2002-11-21 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Who is Demandred?

This theory will try to demonstrate that Demandred isn't Bashere, or Weiramon, or Mesama, or Halwin Norry, or any other known characters in Randland. Why not? Because in the encounter at Shadar Logoth, not only did he not recognize Damer Flinn as an asha'man, he didn't even notice the ageless look of Sarene or Corele, both Aes Sedai. Anyone in Randland, the least of which a Chosen, who is supposedly keeping an eye on Rand, would know the ageless look of an Aes Sedai, and there is evidence to show that neither Sarene nor Corele are newly raised and thus too young for the ageless look.

LOC: Chapter 25: "That had bothered Sarene as well. Partly because she had liked Moiraine - they had been friends as novices and Accepted, though Moiraine was a year ahead, and their friendship had continued over their few meetings in the years since - and partly because it was too vague and too convenient."

POD: Chapter 29: "Sarene Nemdahl, so beautiful even in her dirt that you thought her agelessness must be natural."

I can't find any description of Corele to demonstrate as to whether she also had the ageless appearance, but it highly like that she is not newly raised. For one thing, she seems to have a long acquaintance with Cadsuane, since Corele is one of the Aes Sedai that Cadsuane gathered that she trusted. Second, Cadsuane has not been affiliated with the White Tower for some time, so how would she come to know and trust someone that was newly raised. Third, apparently most Aes Sedai are treated by her like they are novices, and therefore not trustworthy enough, but this does not seem to be the case with Corele. That leads to the conclusion that she must also have the ageless look.

Now for the encounter.

WH: Chapter 35: "Suddenly he saw people off to the right ahead of him through the trees, and sheltered behind a rough gray trunk. A bald-headed old man with a fringe of white hair was limping along between two women, one of them beautiful in a wild way, the other stunning."

Later: "That tottering old man was an Asha'man! And at least one of the women must be what passed for Aes Sedai in this time, and joined with the fellow in a ring."

Therefore, in conclusion, Demandred must be based in Shara, or Seanchan, or among the Seafolk, or elsewhere with a zero population of ageless looking Aes Sedai.

Robert Jordan must be laughing his head off somewhere =)

Feel free to pick it apart.
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Tamyrlin: 2002-11-21

Okay, a very thoughtful observation. You would think that he would realize who these people were considering where he was and what was going on. He has been out long enough to discover the ageless look if he was around Aes Sedai...which does suggest that he is no where near the Black Tower, considering they are holding a large amount of Tower Aes Sedai.
We know that Semirhage is with the Seanchan, so I would doubt that he is sharing time there and we know he uses proxies. But where does this guy hang out that he would never be familiar with agelessness?
Great idea, anyone see any reason why Demandred wouldn't have noticed the ageless look beyond the idea that wherever he hangs out isn't anywhere near areas with Tower Aes Sedai?


WinespringBrother: 2002-11-25

Actually, it is possible there are some places in Randland that may not know the ageless look of an Aes Sedai. Moiraine/Lady Alys seemed able to travel incognito during EOTW, in the 2 Rivers area. Maybe he is disguised as a mud-footed farmer from Deven Ride, or some such isolated area. Where else could someone be ignorant of Aes Sedai?


WinespringBrother: 2002-12-27

Granted, Demandred was playing it cautious, laying back until these strangers passed, whether they were Rand's allies or not. But he was shocked at the strength of Flinn's attack. If he was Taim, he would know how strong the Asha'man are, and that Aes Sedai and Asha'man would link in a battle where they were expecting Forsaken to drop in at any minute. He made poor assumptions right from the get-go. Does this sound like a battle leader (M'Hael)? No, it sounds more like someone spending all their time plotting and out of touch with reality. Taim would NEVER have stepped into a battle situation and flubbed it so obviously and badly. In short, Taim is a war veteran after Dumai's Wells and the Seanchan battles. Demandred seems to have no tactical sense whatsoever.

They must be two different people.


Callandor: 2002-12-28

Demandred was one of LTT most successful generals in the AoL. Granted that it was a different time, but he is still a general at heart.


araqyl: 2003-05-02

A general is far different to a front-line combat troop.

I know there are many references to Demandred's ability as a general, and strength in the Power, and skill with weaves - all second only to LTT - but nowhere can I recall a reference to him bashing away in the front lines of any battle.

I especially don't recall him serving as a scout, which would explain how poor he is at identifying potential strength in enemies...


Mathwin: 2003-05-03

As for the mud-footed Devon Rider theory someone earlier espoused...not Demandred. He wears fur coats and has a tremndous ego. He's probably in Shara, where they have silks and such and he could really feed his ego. That would also explain his disdain for the modern male channelers, because there are none in Shara. It might be possible that he is building an army over there with the intent of crushing Rand from both sides--the Seanchan on the west, the Shara on the east.

Ever noticed how these geographic regions correlate to real ones? You've got Europe (Westlands), the European colonists who conquered the tribal guys in Seandar (America) and come back more powerful than any single European nation, and across crappy deserts which really prohibit trade (Aiel Waste=Afghanistan) you've got the strange people (Shara=India) with strange customs who have all the goodies people want like silk and spices.


Arien Sedai: 2003-11-20

I seem to remember that Demandred said he was keeping an eye on Rand at one point in the book-how could he be near Rand and not recognise Aes Sedai agelessness or the Asha'man uniform?


kikyo: 2003-11-29

I think Demandered is somewhere among the Whitecloaks. If he has been in Amadicia this whole time, then it's possible he has not yet seen a 3rd Age Aes Sedai and the ageless look ... I will end by saying I have absolutely no proof, I just think that the Whitecloaks are a major group without a known foresaken among them and who are actively trying to take over control of as many countries as they can. So it makes sense for a Forsaken to have implanted himself in a position to control those countries through the Whitecloaks should they be successful.


Darren: 2003-12-01

I have to say, since I got the wool pulled so thoroughly over my eyes with the whole taimandred thing, I am very reluctant to issue any definite "this is where I think Demandred is."

However, my hope is that he is amongst the Seanchan, and this mostly because I want to see some more of them (and Mat.) Less of Elayne drinking tea and complaining about her "courses" -or lack thereof- while blushing.


Grady: 2003-12-01

My question is where could he be hiding and not recognize an Aes Sedai for what she was but somehow know what an Asha'man was. That always bent me outta shape....


lowlandr: 2003-12-03

Well I did some reading and thinking and I started wondering. It has been a while since I read the books, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

There is a theory by Jasin Natael which states that is possible that Demandred is controlling Masema. Does Masema meet any AS or Asha'man while he is the Prophet?? If he doesn't it could explain why Demandred doesn't recognize the AS and Asha'man.


Callandor: 2003-12-03

** Does Masema meet any AS or Asha'man while he is the Prophet??**

Yes, he does.

**TITLE: Path of Daggers , CHAPTER: 30 - Beginnings

Slumping back in the chair, Perrin sighed. If the man was this bad over Aes Sedai, how would he be when he learned that Grady and Neald could channel? For a moment, he considered simply knocking Masema over the head, and . . . Men were passing by in the corridor, pausing to glance in before hurrying on. All it took was one of them raising a shout, and Abila could become a slaughterhouse. "Then we ride, Prophet," he said sourly. Light, Rand had said to keep this secret until Masema stood in front of him! How to manage that riding all the way to Cairhien? "But no delays. The Lord Dragon is very anxious to talk with you."**

Perrin brings 2 or 3 Aes Sedai and 2 Asha'man TO the Prophet at the end of TPOD, a whole book before Dem doesn't recognize the Aes Sedai.


Graendal: 2004-02-10

Maybe Dems vision was impaired. Hew is looking through trees and beyond the gray trunk. Maybe he was thinking with his crank and not his brain. He had a stiffy for the beautiful and stunning women hanging on a bald tottering old man and jealous cause Demandred is handsome and should have the two women hanging on him. He was just being a typical male, blinded by beauty and a stiffy to see the real Aes Sedai B****es.


Rhiale: 2006-01-07

Well, I agree to the idea that Dem is keeping low in a place with either no AS, or at least in a place where they would keep themselves hidden, thus out of his immediate attention. If you recall, many times it is said that not every place has a high opinion of AS (Tear, Far Mad, Amadacia, etc.) If he is in one of these places, it would make sense that he wouldn't readily recognize the ageless look. As for being with the Seanchan, I don't think so. With Semhirage there, it might cause too much friction with another "Chosen" lurking about. I believe he is somewhere else, say in Shara, or even the Wast.

The Aiel have not seen AS in a long time, and not all of them went with Rand. And we know that there are Darkfriends with them, one tried to kill Mat. So if he is in the Waste, he could easily use his servents among the Aiel to keep an eye on him, and even when he goes away and such to do his other plans (Cleanse the Source and such) he could use other ways of keeping an eye on him. Not sure how he could after abandoning the Aiel, if my theory is correct, but it is a way to think. Whatever, this is my first time, so I could be way off.