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irgette: How far back do her memories go?

by Rand-althor: 2003-05-25 | 3 out of 10 (2 votes)

Previous Categories: Miscellaneous Theories

Here is a thought i just had. What if Birgette's memories go farther back than she has said. What first got me thinking about this is one short half-sentance. Birgette says something along the lines of 'I remember hearing about a female warder'. Now this seems like the type of thing that would be remembered, similar to the fact that Aes Sedai were once both men and women.

So if it is as recent as the AoL then odds are there would still be stories about it around in this age. So therefore it must be pretty old. What if Birgette's memories go back one full turning of the wheel. Now i know that what I am about to say argues against my previous theory (Birgitte and the horn) but it is another angle that I have seen. Obviously the heros have not always existed. This is implied by what Artur Hawkwing says in Falme, something like "you may join us" when he is talking to Hurin (where did this guy go anyways? He seems to have just vanished) which implies that there are occasionally new heros. Maybe, in every life, the hero ends up facing a choice, as Rand has had, to follow his destiny, or run from it. What if every turning of the wheel, a hero has at least one decent chance, to stay a hero, or be like a normal person. If so then this could be Birgette's chance. She now has a choice. She has her level-headedness, which was balanced by Gaidal's rashness. Without that, i believe that Birgitte will be faced with a choice, in which she will have to choose between being level headed, or rash, and Gaidal will have a similar choice. Birgitte is losing her memories, as I believe that all hero's do at somepoint, or they would have memories of many turinings of the wheel. Birgitte remembers herself, exept since her memories are gone, she does not remember being a hero.

Or possibly she remembers the bonded Aes Sedai. Either way, her memories are apparently very old. Another point, as Birgitte talks about her memory of a female warder, she smiles a secretive smile. This could be hiding that she remebers this happening before, but loses the memories quickly, so she cant remember exactly what it is that she was smiling at, and can't warn anyone about whats going to happen.
Of course for this theory to work, not only does Birgette not need a Gaidal figure, but Gaidal has no need of a Birgitte figgure.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2003-05-28

This is a question that was proposed on the board recently. Do memories and heroes get recycled at the end of a turning, or are they used by the Wheel again? If their souls are used again, then it makes sense that Birgitte would have memories going far back...maybe far enough that she remembers hearing of a female warder (herself) from a previous turning. All things don't happen exactly like they did, but maybe Birgitte has been kicked out before and saved by an Aes Sedai. This would be a good question for RJ; he might answer it.

2

Jes: 2003-05-28

Although they are fading, Birgette originally remembers many incarnations including Marian (as in Robin Hood's Maid Marian) and Joan (as in Joan of Arc). She can even remember that when she uses a sword it always ends badly (as with Joan). These references are pretty obviously ones the reader is supposed to recognize, thus at least one previous turning of the wheel if not more.

Tamyrlin: What makes you think the heroes are new to this age? All the names mentioned in the fight at Falme have echoes of our own legends.

3

Jes: 2003-05-28

Oops, sorry. It wasn't Tamyrlin that thought the Heroes were new to this age, but in the original post.

4

Callandor: 2003-05-29

I would say for sure Brigettes memories would go back a turning of the wheel at least, but as of right now I believe her memories extend to **nothing befor the founding of the White Tower**.

5

Rand-althor: 2003-05-29

I never said that the heros were new to this age. I said there obviously has to be something to make you into a hero, and that she can't remeber a Female warder from anytime too soon past, or there would still be stories, or at least legend, but I am in no way saying that all heros are new to this age, or even this turning of the wheel. Of course as I mentioned above, there is obviously some way to become a hero, so it is safe to assume that there is also a way to go back to not being a hero, or that in one life, at some point, maybe not even once per turning, but at least occasionally, a life comes where one key element is missing, in which the hero, not knowing they are a hero, makes a decision, which either keeps them a hero, or sends them back to the same way everyone else is.

6

Mairashda: 2003-05-29

Jeanne certainly took up the sword- but were the consequences that dire? ok, she was burned at the stake...

7

juitzhead: 2003-05-29

Firstly, Hurin went back to Shienar to tell King Easar about Rand which i think started the fighting along the Borderlands.

Now, IIRC, we see from Moridins POV that the Warder bond is something AS of this Age have come up with and he wasnt known in the AOL.

Callandors remark of Birgitte not having memories to after the founding of the white tower is true. However, we do know that she was around the AOL because we see from her POV that Moggy had it in for her b/c she had foiled one of her plans. So its totally possible that she was around before the War of Power.

I think Birgitte is slowly losing her memories but possibly was around b/4 or during the last age.

8

Callandor: 2003-05-30

Right Brigette foiled one of Moggys plans to kill or turn LTT.

9

Weird Harold: 2003-05-31

Birgitte's memories are fading now that she's incarnated and at last mention oly go back to the founding of the WT -- i.e. the Breaking Of The World or the beginning of this age.

While she was still in T'A'R, she says she remembers many turnings of the wheel, "Like a book well read." That statement is from when she first talks to Nyneave in Tanchico in tSR.

When Birgitte says she once heard of a female warder, her memories are still complete and haven't begun to fade. I think at that point Birgitte would have remembered being a female warder in past turnings of the wheel -- her secretive smile might mean that she in fact does remember being a warder in past turnings.

10

Callandor: 2003-05-31

Maybe she sees it as an opportunity to get back into Hero status (if course she has lost it and not just forcefully spun out)?

11

Ishamael666: 2006-02-14

This is my first post, so bear with me if I make any mistakes.

I think that Birgitte had (when she was in limbo in T'A'R) memories of all the Ages. However, she started losing them as soon as she was ripped out by Moghedien, her most distant memories first.

Now what are her most distant memories? The ones of her life in the past 3rd Age, or early 4th Age. So she can only remember hearing of a female Warder, but doesn't remember it being herself.

Also, I think that Birgitte's heroism in this life is what raises her to the Heroes of the Horn, allowing her reincarnation.