ain will be the next Dark one
by Jearom: 2003-01-01 | Not yet rated
Give this a chance!
Fain is an amalgamation of all of the different evils that we know of in this world.
He was originally a highly placed member in dark friend councils and has been to Shayol ghul personally - not a common practice among present day dark friends - twice where he was “distilled”.
CHAPTER: 47 - More Tales of the Wheel
"After that, Fain was taken to Shayol Ghul again, and his mind was - distilled."
Next he was tainted by the evil that took Aridhol and turned it into Shadar Logoth. I say tainted because I believe the thinking that he merged with Mordeth is still up for debate. Certainly since he left Shadar Logoth he refers several times to the fact that he has changed - somehow become more. I am unsure as to the role of the dagger in this but it must play some part.
Fires of Heaven CHAPTER: 19 - Memories
“But later, in Aridhol, he had been reborn. Reborn to smite old enemies and new.”
He has also been in contact with Machin Shin - the Black wind that patrols the ways, he survived the experience.
Eye of the World CHAPTER: 47 - More Tales of the Wheel
"The Black Wind caught him-and he claimed to understand the voices. Some greeted him as like to them; others feared him. No sooner did the Wind envelop Fain than it fled."
Great Hunt CHAPTER: 36 - Among the Elders
Rand frowned at the Waygate. Could it be following me? There were too many questions. Had Fain somehow ordered the Black Wind? Verin said it could not be done.
I refer to Machin Shin separately because I believe that Machin Shin is a byproduct of the taint on Saidin which was used to create the ways. Although it is of the shadow, it has grown into something more as a result of mixing all of the souls which it has consumed.
Shadow Rising CHAPTER: 16 - Leavetakings
“Machin Shin. The Black Wind. Not even Aes Sedai knew whether it was Shadowspawn or something that had grown out of the Ways' corruption.”
Next I refer to the fact the dark one has a name ”Shai'tan”. This alone proves nothing but it lends to my theory that the present dark one may have once been a mortal - he certainly seems to exhibit many mortal characteristics.
I believe that Fain embodies pure evil, his is the only person (goodies excluded) who is not in service to anyone but himself. He is just BAD.
Fain has to play a big part in the culmination of the story. He has been a big player right throuth the series, albeit behind the scenes. This is what I think he is here for.
It is prophecy that the Dragon Reborn will defeat the dark one at Tarmon Gai'don - that can't mean that there will be no Dark one afterwards. What about all of that balance - light/ dark, Saidin/ saidar. There must be a dark one to balance the creator and I believe that for the next turning of the wheel, it will be Fain. Question is, which name would he use? Fain, Mordeth, Ordieth.........
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-01-01
The hard time I have with this is that it would sound suspiciously like Weis and Hickman's Raistlin mixed with Tolkien's gollum. But I just don't see it going that way. Fain is truly an enigma, and he is a very large unknown, but the process by which he would become the next Dark One doesn't seem like something Jordan will try to tackle. We know Ishy is the DO's champion, and Rand is the Light's champion. The battle going on will be between champions and sealing the prison. If the DO escaped his prison, it is all over, if he doesn't, then Rand fights his surrogates...but, I am not always right, just mostly.
2
Gird: 2003-01-12
There's one more thing, the DO is extremly powerful, Fain is good at what he does but he doesn't have the power of the DO. Would he then gain control over the power of the DO when/if Rand destroys him? Is the power a part of the DO or is it an own force like Saidin and Saidar?
3
Dragons Shadow: 2003-01-18
This sounds remarkably like my theory. (see Misc Theorys). I also believe that Fain will eventually replace the DO. The method of his becoming the DO is simply that he will assume control of the remnant of the true power that remains after Rand destroys the current DO. The TP will change Fain into the godlike being of the DO. BUT, being new to his power, he will be overcome and imprisoned in a NEW prison to be fashioned by Perrin (The Builder).
This kind of Power transferrence is seen in almost all of the world religions and mythologys EXCEPT the Judeo-Christian pantheon. IF Jordan rather follows the DR as Christ line of thinking then Fain can not become the DO as the current DO is ETERNAL.
In that case I believe that Fain will be used to seal the DO away again, using Fain's Power to maintain the prison. This would remove the tie to Randland that the seals created, and it would allow the DO's prison to once again be outside of the pattern.
4
Callandor: 2003-01-19
The DO doesn't have a body or any other way for him to die so how can Fain replace him?
It just isn't possible.
5
Dragons Shadow: 2003-01-21
How do you know that the DO does not have a body? The only statement to that "fact" is in TDR when Moiraine is telling Rand something like "... look at the body, A MAN'S BODY, If the Dark One even has a body ..." Always remember that Moiraine has been wrong before. Also, suppose that Fain was to enter TAR in the flesh. Is it not POSSIBLE, that Fain could remake his own BODY and truly become the dark one? Maybe THAT is the true root of the Wise Ones refering to entering in the flesh as an EVIL thing. Perhaps it is information that was gained by Aiel Dreamwalkers long in the past.
6
Darren: 2003-01-21
Using Fain to shield the Dark One. That's brilliant, DS, I never even THOUGHT of that. Of course, there's always the problem of Fain not being pure Mordeth, but partially the Hound of Ba'alzamon...Still, that's the most exciting theory of DO prison I've read here. I'm not sure I agree with it, but there is a lot of text evidence to support it...
7
Callandor: 2003-01-21
The DO doesnt have a body because he isnt inside the pattern. The Heroes dont have a body because they are waiting to be reborn into the pattern.
The creator doesnt have a body because again hes not in the pattern.
Now, Fain is tricky to say. Fain himself was born in the pattern but now RJ is saying he has sidestepped the pattern. But have we really hard from Fain? The actual Fain? I think we have been hearing from Mordeth lately and not from the actual Fain. I think the only remaining part of Fain is that he knows Rands name and his drive to kill him.
So in my mind Fain has gone bye bye mostly and Mordeth has taken over.
8
Dragons Shadow: 2003-01-21
You are saying that any person (or soul, or being) that is not currently in the pattern cannot have a body.
Well, first of all, the Heroes do have a body of a sort. They are able to step out of TAR under special circumstances AND can affect the physical world when called out. (or do you believe that they only have bodies when called out and become disembodied again when going back?) ALSO, Birgitte definately has a body, AND she is NOT under the influence of the magic of the horn. (or do you also believe that Moghedien, who cannot heal anything, knows enough to create a working human body to put her into when she is ripped from TAR?). Besides, they ARE part of the pattern. They are just held aside until needed. The pattern is made up of SOULS not BODIES. As long as a person's soul exists, then that person is part of the pattern.
As for the Creator, it cannot be known if the creator or the dark one really has a physical body. NO ONE has seen either one. The creator removed himself from creation so as to not destroy it by battling the DO directly. The DO has never (to our knowledge) fully escaped from his prison in human (or Ogier or Wolf) memory or recorded history.
Fain, on the other hand, is NOT part of the pattern, he DOES have a BODY, and can physically interact with the people who are part of the pattern. He has the ability, it seems, to use power in a way which seems to me like when rand was first touching the One Power. Things just "happened" when he wanted or needed them to. Fain is, I believe, learning to channel what appears to be the True Power. If he is, HE IS ABLE TO TOUCH THE TP WITHOUT THE DO'S PERMISSION. This shows that supplanting the DO may not be as impossible as you think.
By the way, Fain and Mordeth are now one and the same. (See Moiraine's comment about it at the beginning of TGH.)
9
Elder Haman: 2003-01-22
Exactly Dragon Shadow- Unborn souls are also part of the pattern. This is why balefire is so dangerous. It completely destroys the soul. (Thus preventing the Dark One from granting Rahvin a re-birth).
We are having quite the discussion about these issues over in "The Creator, Dark One, and Time" perhaps you could check it out, I would like to hear your thoughts on the issues.
10
egerrish: 2007-07-27
I started to think this might be true in my re-reading of the books. I'm glad that someone else has already had the thought.
My other observation is that perhaps he will just be sealed up in the Bore with the DO. We have a couple of examples in the book where Fain and the DO's powers have been tested against each other and they have either destroyed each other or fought each other.
The first example is in Rand's side. I don't have the books with me right now to quote, but I think someone commented that they were at odds with each other.
The other is the cleansing of saidin when the taint destroyed half shadar logoth. And since we *know* fain is a wildcard, I could see this create 3 possibilities:
1) Fain becomes the new DO when he is sealed in the bore with a (weakened) DO. by sealing him inside the bore, he then exists outside of the pattern and can live forever as the new (albeit slightly different) DO. If the current DO is the father of lies, Fain would be the father of suspician.
2) Fain and the DO are sealed in the bore and their powers fight each other eternally. There would no more DO to fight (or at least until someone bored a new hole in the next turning).
3) Fain and the DO destroy one another just like in Shadar Logoth. There is no new evil, and time becomes linear instead of circular.
