ho will kill slayer?
by Highbreaker: 2003-04-29 | Not yet rated
Who is going to kill slayer? I have heard several theories on this, and I think it is time that we worked this out for good...
1)Mat- I can't really believe this... but I have heard it... because some people think he is gonna rescue Moiraine, and they will have to go into the tower of Genji, and Slayer spends time there...
2)Perrin- perrin is the one who encountered him first in the series and who has most dealings with him... I have talked with mashiara, he has an awful lot to say on this subject and will be posting soon... (But, to get a preemptive on him, I just have to say that I think it will be rather hard for him to kick any butt seeing that he took up the hammer :P)
3)Thom- See Mat
4)Rand- Slayer is after Rand, It is inevitable that he will eventually catch up to him, and Rand won't just sit there and watch. He doesn't know that Slayer is luc, and therefor one of his estranged and oddly connected father figure types... There is no reason for him not to kill Slayer. Besides, Slayer will try to kill Min, like hell rand is just gonna sit and watch that...
5)Lan- I contend that Lan has more against Slayer than anyone else... I mean... Slayer is Isam, isam betrayed Malkier... 'Nuff said.
6)Padan Fain- My friend brought up a really good point here... Fain is an evil that fights the Shadar Logoth Evil, and on top of that, he is very protective of the right to Kill Rand, as we saw in Far Madding... If Fain ever finds out that Slayer is after rand, all hell is going to break lose. I think Fain could take Slayer, don't you?
Yeah, so that is all I have heard so far, with a whole Perrin argument cut out, so that Mashiara can fill it in... If anyone else has anybody to added to this list, or someone who should be cut off, lets hear it!
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-09
I think it will be Lan. RJ seems to have been setting up this battle since he mentioned it back in TGH. Slayer is looking for Lan and would like to kill him and Nynaeve. I don't have any other reason than a guess, but I think Lan is the best bet.
2
rubbernilly: 2003-05-09
I had always thought that a two-part battle would be cool:
Rand confronts Luc in TAR
simultaneously
Lan confronts Isam in tRW
I don't know that we've seen Isam and Luc exist separately at the same time, but if so, that would give us two epic contests of close blood-relations.
3
Korell: 2003-05-09
If nothing else Lan fighting Isam and Rand fighting Luc at the same time would just be cool...how possible is it though? interesting stuff though
4
jason wolfbrother: 2003-05-09
Slayer is trying to kill Rand and Min. Not Lan and Nynaeve. His orders were to kill his nephew and the wench. If he was trying to kill Lan the orders would be to kill his cousin and the wench.
5
Brainchz: 2003-05-09
I don't think it's possible for Luc and Isam to separate and have one of them be in TRW. Maybe in TAR then can separtate since is can be changed in so many ways. I tend to believe that Perrin will kill him in TAR. I'm not sold on Perrin taking up the hammer just yet. Perrin was the first to really hurt Slayer and I don't think he'll be forgiven. Perhaps Perrin and Rand can fight the two in TAR. That would be cool, but I don't see RJ doing it.
6
Callandor: 2003-05-09
That doesnt sound possible to be in TAR and the Real World and be able to move around in both simutaniously.
I think it will be Perrin myself.
7
Wolfblade: 2003-05-10
I would have to agree with Tamyrlin that Lan seems like the best choice when comeing to this but the double action would seem cool. Though I am still contemplating on how it would be done.
8
rubbernilly: 2003-05-11
Jason Wolfbrother - I am not trying to say that Slayer is hunting Lan and Nynaeve. I know what his orders were. That doesn't mean that Lan can't be involved, or in the area, or take an interest once he learns that part of Slayer is Isam.
As for how this could happen... I think we need to remember that Slayer is unique in Randland - he is the only person who is two-in-one. Perhaps part of the mechanic of that two-in-one nature is that while one of him is in tRW, one is in TAR. At will, he can change which is which, but at any given time he is both in TAR and tRW.
As far as Rand vs. Luc and Lan vs. Isam, that might be supported by the passage where Slayer steps out of TAR to kill Rand and Min (it turns out to be the old man and woman). As he steps out of TAR, he changes to Luc (I think), saying that it seemed appropriate. It would surely be appropriate to kill Rand as Luc - the family member. If someone can find this passage and post it we can see if it actually supports this idea.
9
Anubis: 2003-05-11
woah there chaps
1. isam did not betray malkier. he was an infant at the time.
2. isnt isam lans uncle? or cousin?. i know they are related pretty closley. and if it is uncle then the nephew and wench comment becomes very dicey.
10
Callandor: 2003-05-12
Isam is Lans cousin. Luc is Rands uncle.
11
silverwolf: 2003-05-20
Actually, it is possible for a dreamwalker to be in TAR and move around in tRW at the same time; Egwene did it in TSR. The question isn't whether it's possible for him to move in both places at once, it's whether Slayer is skilled enough to fight a person in each at the same time.
I think that Lan will kill Slayer. Remember that Moiraine thought (in TGH, I think) that if Lan found out Isam was alive there would be trouble. I don't have the book with me to get quotes, but I remember her thinking it.
12
Shadow Bane: 2003-07-01
Read my Isam is a corrupted wolfbrother to get my opinion on his life etc. but i think it will Be Slayer vs Perrin at TG. Young Bull will lead the wolves and Slayer will lead the Darkhounds.
13
Niahanchi: 2003-07-01
Lan vs. Slayer. Lan has the most reason to hate him.
14
Callandor: 2003-07-01
Isam is Lans cousin. What reason does he have to want Isam dead, since he doesnt even know about him?
Perrin has the more reason just for the killing of the wolves.
15
rubbernilly: 2003-07-02
Lan's whole life is a battle against the shadow. He wouldn't necessarily seek Isam out to destroy him until he found out that Isam was deeply of the dark.
And I just have to add my two cents in on any thread dealing with Slayer and his ultimate defeat:
I say that since Slayer exists in two places at once (TAR & tRW), the battle will be two-fold -
Rand in TAR vs. Luc
Lan in tRW vs. Isam
Perrin's connection... it's just not compelling enough for me. I don't buy his involvement.
16
Shadow Bane: 2003-07-02
Why would Rand wish to kill Luc just because they are related? If that was how it worked Galad might as well kill Luc. PERRIN has actually met Slayer and they have an unfinished fight. PERRIN WILL KILL SLAYER!
17
rubbernilly: 2003-07-02
Rand being related to Luc is not what causes them to fight... it is what causes the fight to be extremely interesting.
The reason could be that Luc is threatening Morgase's chit, Elayne.
...or that Luc is hunting up Rand.
...or a bunch of other reasons.
18
Callandor: 2003-07-02
I for one, HATE the two places at once theory, but go as you will. Rand will be a little busy with the LB to go into TAR in the flesh to hunt down Isam (who I dont think he even knows about), while Lan goes and fights Luc at the same time in the real world (who again HE DOESNT EVEN KNOW!).
Perrin has the most reason to. Plain and simple.
19
Shadow Bane: 2003-07-02
Rand isn't even near Elayne so why would he just happen to be around when Luc attacked her? Birgitte or Aviendha would make more sense. Lan has no way of defeating Isam either. Isam can just enter T'A'R whenever he wants-Lan dosen't stand a chance. Why would he anyways maybe he WANTS to know his cousin, one of the few remaining Malkeiri (not likely but...you never know) PERRIN WILL KILL SLAYER!!!!!!!!
20
EvilJawa101: 2003-11-12
Regarding the whole tRW and TAR at the same time thing...I dunno it would be neat, but it seems kinda impossible, but then again, its the whole LUC and ISAM, personally, if it comes to that though, I think it will be LAN in tRW and Perrin in TAR, remember Perrin, being a woflbrother can access TAR.
21
kikyo: 2003-11-13
I agree that Perrin seems the most obvious person to do Slayer in, because of all their interaction in TDR.
But I can't help feeling that it will be Lan. Or maybe it's just that I want it to be Lan. A Slayer-Perrin fight would just be a fight. But a Lan-Slayer fight, with Slayer in his Isam body would bring up a lot of conflicting feelings for Lan. He will have to kill him, but he will also be killing his only relative and only countryman even. A fight between the two of them would just be much more interesting for literary purposes.
22
Aelfinn: 2003-12-29
***Actually, it is possible for a dreamwalker to be in TAR and move around in tRW at the same time; Egwene did it in TSR. The question isn't whether it's possible for him to move in both places at once, it's whether Slayer is skilled enough to fight a person in each at the same time. ***
Egwene was almost-sleeping riding a horse at that time, and she was misty in TAR. I think someone says that it's possible to be in TAR and walking about at the same time, but I have something to say that will make the Rand/Luc Lan/Isam thing OBLIVIATED!!! ((I hope)).
Think about concentration. Walking, unless it's in a very difficult terrain, doesn't require much concentration. Talking doesn't require as much. Fighting somebody requires plenty of concentration.
If you were in two places at once, your concentration would be split. NOT a very good thing when someone's trying to kill you. Get killed in the real world, you're dead. Get killed in Tel'aran'rhiod, you're dead. Either way, you're dead.
And Slayer is basically one person. Two bodies, but sharing the same "space", so to speak. Isam could be killing wolves in the WD while Luc is sleeping in E'sF, but--- SLEEPING DOESN'T REQUIRE CONCENTRATION! as I think you all know. Slayer's MIND can only be in one place. He's either not on TAR and walking around in tRW, or he's _in_ TAR and staring off into space in tRW.
Am I making any sense? Not to myself, but hopefully someone else gets it.
23
HawkeWolfe: 2003-12-30
As far as the topic of being in Real world and TAR goes, remember when Perrin was hunting slayer/Isam and shot him with an arrow in TAR and Luc high-tailed it out of town holding his chest where his counterpart was shot. Now RJ never really said what Luc was doing while Isam was being shot, so it may be possible for Slayer to be in two places at once. Now before anyone jumps on this to tear it apart, think about this one point. **There are two people in this combination** Those who have replied that a person cannot be in TAR without being asleep are correct...if you are talking about a normal person! Obviously, Slayer is not normal and we really do not know what his/their capabilities really are yet. It may be possible for them both to be active in the real world and in TAR. Given the fact that there are two entities involved I believe that the possibility must exist.
24
rubbernilly: 2003-12-30
Just to play devil's advocate...
... We *don't* know for sure that Slayer's mind can only be in one place. He's got, effectively, 2 minds.
However, what you say got me thinking... Slayer could run from Rand in TAR into tRW and suddenly face Lan. That way we'd still have the epic battle-of-the-blood that I am talking about, but there would only be one incarnation of Slayer... so even our recalcitrant friends like Callandor cannot fault this idea.
LOL
25
jason wolfbrother: 2003-12-30
Slayer is both Luc and Isam. However, he cannot be in two places at once. from TSR Ch. 28 To The Tower of Ghenjei " You chase Slayer, Young Bull. He is here in the flesh, and he can kill. 'In the flesh? YOu mean not just dreaming? How can he be here in the flesh?' "
So there was no Luc sleeping in his bed in Emond's Field while Isam traversed the Wolf Dream. Slayer is in the Wolf Dream in the Flesh. Every time he is there it is in the Flesh.
26
Callandor: 2003-12-30
**Now RJ never really said what Luc was doing while Isam was being shot, so it may be possible for Slayer to be in two places at once.**
No, Slayer can only be 1 entity at one time in TAR, as per his change from Luc in WH, to kill the two room occupents, to Isam to go wolf hunting. He can't be both because he BECAME the other to change.
27
WinespringBrother: 2004-01-01
In TSR, when Perrin shot Slayer in TAR, he must have been there while dreaming, not in the flesh. If he was there in the flesh, then he would have had to open a gateway to emerge in the real world. However he just disappeared, like Moghedien did when Birgitte shot her. Moghedien woke in the real world, wounded, and asking for healing. That's what Slayer must have done also, woke wounded and ran screaming from his room in the inn.
Quote:
"Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 53 - The Price of a Departure
In one motion Perrin drew and fired. The ravens screamed warning, and Slayer spun to take the broadhead shaft in his chest, but not through the heart. The man howled, clutching the arrow with both hands; black feathers rained down as the ravens beat their wings in a frenzy. [b]And Slayer faded, him and his cry together, growing misty, transparent, vanishing.[/b] The ravens' shrieks vanished as if severed with a knife; the arrow that had transfixed the man dropped to the ground. The ravens were gone, too."
Quote:
"Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER: 34 - A Silver Arrow
Moghedien sank to her knees, panting, clutching the protruding arrow shaft with both hands as the glow around her faded and died. [b]Then she vanished, [/b]and the silver arrow fell where she had been, stained dark with blood."
Note the similarities, and Moghedien was dreaming at the time, not in the flesh also.
As for who will kill Slayer. I think Slayer will end up killing Hopper in TAR and drive Perrin over the edge to return the favor.
28
jason wolfbrother: 2004-01-01
but look at how Slayer moved out of TAR when he was trying to kill Rand and Min
from WH Ch. 22 Out of Thin Air
"Isam paced the room, studying the by the ever-present light of Tel'aran'rhiod. The bed linens shifted from rumpled to nealy made between one glance and the next. The coverlet changed from flowered to plain dark red to quilted. The ephemeral always cahnged here, and he bgarely noticed anymore. He could not use Tel'aran'rhiod the way the Chosen could, but here was where he felt most free. Here, he could be who he wanted to be. He chuckled at the thought.
Stopping beside the bed, he carefully unsheathed the two poisoned daggers adn stepped out of the Unseen World into the waking. As he did he became Luc. It seemed appropriate."
and later in the same chapter
"For a moment he studied th faces of the man and woman on the bed, then pinched out the candle's flame and returned the candle to his pocket before stepping back into Tel'aran'rhiod."
He doesn't use TAR the same way the Chosen do. So he is not there while asleep in a bed. He is there in the flesh. The Flesh. That makes all the difference.
29
Oatman: 2004-04-03
The way I've seen it RJ has set up a supernatural being for Rand, Perrin, and Mat to face before or during the last battle. Slayer really wouldnt stand much of a chance against Rand, and Perrin has reason to loathe him, and has had the most contact with him in the books. Also, Perrin is the only person Slayer has a reason to hate, he kills whoever he is paid to kill, and seems indifferent to it, but Perrin hurt him. Mat has been set up to fight the gholem, and rand is being set up to fight Fain, so i think that takes them out of the picture. Lan will be to busy protecting Nyneave to think about any form of personel vengeance, and why would Fain want to kill him at all? Thom killing him is a ridiculous idea, especially with his bung leg.
Thats my two cents.
30
Underhill: 2004-04-11
Instead of two fights in two places at one time, why can't it be one fight in two places at one time.
It might just be that Slayer will be cornered in some way by two of our candidates. This also makes me think about the tower of genji which is where Slayer hid from Perrin. This makes another place for Slayer to run to, so there should probably be a quatra-cooperative captivity attempt on the part of four of the heroes. Two in the dream world, one inside the Tower of Genji and one outside. Two in the Real World, One in the ToG, one outside. This is just speculation but it seems to me that if somehow this ever happened (which I admit doesn't seem likely), then Slayer would be completely locked in place with nowhere to run. He would then have to choose his own battle out of four choices, the popular ones being these: Perrin, Lan, Rand, or Mat(with Thom by his side).
This I think would be much more interesting then two battles at once.
31
waterbucket: 2004-05-10
Perrin will definitely kill Slayer or will have a large role in killing Slayer. The way I see it, Rand, Mat, and Perrin are all being set up to face a strong player for the shadow. Rand - Ishmael/Moridin, Mat - Gholam, Perrin - Slayer. What other shadow person is Perrin really connected to? Without Slayer, all Perrin will ever do is rescue Faile, wait for her to be captured again, and then do the rescue thing over.
32
Anubis: 2004-05-12
underhill. i dont think slayer went into the tower of genjhi (sp). he most likely stepped out of the dream at the right time to try and make perrin think he had so perrin would enter.
33
Flinn Sedai: 2004-05-13
**Rand in TAR vs. Luc
Lan in tRW vs. Isam**
Rand doesnt even know who Slayer is. If you want to assume that he will fight in T'A'R and tRW, then it would be something like this:
Perrin in T'A'R vs. Slayer
Lan in tRW vs. Isam
