1
Tamyrlin: 2003-08-09
I have never seen this idea advanced or discussed, and I think it might have some merit. The Black Ajah would know that the Dragon Reborn will be able to channel, and the inborn ability is partly genetic, so could they have been trying to be the mother of the Dragon Reborn, or trying to create an army of male channelers that they can give to the DO, the Dreadlords the DO will need to win the final battle against the Dragon Reborn? This is a fun idea, but I don't know that you have proved that the White Ajah has a breeding program and that Alviarin is at the head of that program...can you please post those quotes? I know they discussed the culling of male channelers, but I never understood their discussions to mean they knew of an ongoing program by the whites?
2
Callandor: 2003-08-09
That would be sort of like the Bene Gesserit's trying to produce the Quesaqs Hadderack.
But the White being riddled with the Black? Every Ajah has Black in it most likely, but I wold think that the Red is riddled and every other Ajah is just a few.
3
Him-who-may: 2003-08-10
The Shadow Rising: Assurances
TALKING OF THE CULLING THEORY OF SHERIEMS AND VERIN MENTIONS THE GENTLING OF MEN---
"Alanna harrumphed. "What else can we do, Verin? Let them go insane? Follow the White's mad plan?"
"I think not," verin replied calmly. "Even if we could find women willing to bear children by a gentled man, there is no guarantee the children would be able to channel, or would be girls. I did suggest that if they wanted to increase the stock, Aes Sedai should be the ones to have the children; themselves, in fact, since they put it forward in the first place. Alviarin was not amused." "
Not conclusive evidence that Alviarin was the head of the plan, but it does suggest that she was 1 of those who presented the plan.
4
Tyr: 2003-08-10
Although it may be that the ability to channels is being rooted out of humanity, isn't it possible that it is onl make it stronger in the one who CAN channel. Kind of like survival of the fittest.
Think about it...in the last few decades we are seeing some of the strongest channelers, possibly ever...
Taim, Nynaeve, Egwene...the list carries on...the Seanchan also have a score of emensly strong channelers.
Why is there such a sudden burst of strong channlers?
Also, in the last few centuries Channelers have been discovering things unheard of in the AOL, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it is very peculiar...
I don't really believe the possibility of one of the Black Ajah attepting to become the Mother of the dragon reborn, becuase it would be hard to fullfill the prophecies cuasing the creation of the Dragon Reborn...
The only possible motive I could see is, this:
Whats the next best thing besides having the dragon reborn? Having a male channeler that everyone BELIEVES is the Dragon reborn...they could use him to the Black Ajah's advantage.
Also I think it would better fit the Black Ajah's purposes to hide inside the Red Ajah, allowing them to seek out Male Channelers without catching the eye of the White Tower.
My thoughts...not necisarily in order but hey, chaos is fun!
5
Anubis: 2003-08-10
one word. need.
6
Rhodric: 2003-08-10
**Whats the next best thing besides having the dragon reborn? Having a male channeler that everyone BELIEVES is the Dragon reborn...they could use him to the Black Ajah's advantage.**
i'm just gonna throw this out there: Taim. the illegitimate son of an BA AS.
7
Jiana: 2003-08-13
Rhodric: With all due respect and more (because it sounds plausible to me), that sounds like one of Korrell's "Randland Tabloid Headlines." :) :)
8
Fade: 2003-08-13
if two channeling people had a child they would most likely have a child who could channel. is it possible that the strength of the parents dictates the strength of the child? if so, rand and elayne are going to have some hugely powerful children. not to mention the children he will have with aviendah.
9
Tyr: 2003-08-13
Fade interesting point.
Channeling can't be genetic, because, an example, Siuan's(sp?) daddy was a fishermen...its unlikely that her Mom was a AS because she grew up in Tear...AS are frowned on or banned there or something arn't they?
Anyhow, if channeling doesnt have to be genetic, I find it highly unlikey that the power in One Power of the parents dictates the power of the child...or even guarenty the ability to channel in the child...
Please correct me If I am wrong, Its been a while since I've read the books...I've been buissy.
10
Fade: 2003-08-14
we dont know that her parents couldnt channel. it could be that both they had the spark, but never learned. wasnt suian a wilder? if so, that would be the only reason that the family's line of the ability to channel was discovered.
and if cahnneling is not genetic, than the White ajah's plan for breeding is totaly bogus.
11
Dorindha: 2003-08-14
I think it's a fairly accepted idea that channelling could be recessive genetic, and hence the theory that is is being culled out of the population. Of course there are added complications to take into account re: people having the spark v people who can learn.
I think it is highly likely that the child of two channellers will have the spark, or at least be able to learn, but it is a complete unknown, as no known male channellers have reproduced for a while. It may be that the resaon the ability is not completely culled out is that there are numbers of men with the ability to learn, rather than the spark (evidenced by the numbers found for the BT).
12
Anubis: 2003-08-15
siuans parents didnt have the spark or they would be aes sedai or dead.
noone knows what causes a person to be able to channel, not even Robert Jordan (he sez in an interview he hasnt decided if he wants to include that or not)
however, we do know that in places where the old blood runs thick, there are alot of people with the spark.
13
Tyr: 2003-08-16
Maybe its like this:
You know the Great Serpent ring? Maybe it symbolizes the way the One Power works...
It is the representation of the one power....it produces people who channel...and in the production it feasts off the channelers...or maybe the discharge of channeling?Hence the eating of its own tail...as there are less things for it to feed on (less channelers) there is less energy it has to produce more...hence killing off the ability to channel...
And perhaps it does feed of the discharge which would more adequitely explain the culling...with the Red and there campaign in full gear the Male channelers are afraid to channel, thus creating no discharge...
Or maybe I am a crazy wacko who is insane. HEHEH
Ps: Who says the White Ajah are right? Maybe they're wrong! It is a theory after all, not fact, because if it were indeed fact, the WT would have stopped the killing of male channelers, for fear of extintion.
14
Callandor: 2003-08-16
**You know the Great Serpent ring? Maybe it symbolizes the way the One Power works...**
No that symbolizes time and eternity :).
15
Mairashda: 2003-08-17
ah...but they haven't been culling all male channelers- only the wilders.
16
Rhuark: 2003-08-17
Doesn't Shara only allow channelers to reproduce with other channelers? It must be somewhat successful for them to have continued the practice since the Breaking.. I think that the stronger the parents are at channeling the more likely it is that the child will have the spark...
17
Him-who-may: 2003-08-18
A point on the other part of my theory.
If the theory does connect Sheriam and the BA this early in the series (this is the weakest part of the theory) then pg. 419 Of "Fires of Heaven" chapter 27 would raise a very intersting point. It states the following;
"Sheriam is the highest among us, and she has kept us together when we'd have been running in ten different directions"
This is the tower in exile discussing who should be their Amyrlin. Now although it was Suian who suggested the idea it was the obvious thing to do.
If Sheriam was connected to the BA at this point it could suggest that it was a BA plan to split the tower (this is supported by Alviarin's involvment) but also to place up a Amyrlin controlled by the BA both in the tower and in the tower in exile.
18
Aelfinn: 2003-12-09
Tyr:
***Channeling can't be genetic, because, an example, Siuan's daddy was a fishermen...its unlikely that her Mom was a AS because she grew up in Tear...AS are frowned on or banned there or something arn't they?***
Maybe chanelling's something like being left-handed. (I know nothing of genetics, so I'll stay out of that.) Neither of my parents are left-handed, but I am. My mother has said that she thinks one of her cousins might have been as well.
So. I think that someone wouldn't be able to channel if they didn't have ANY ancestors who could be taught or had the spark in them. However, considering how darn LONG it's been since the Breaking, and how darn FEW people survived it, I say it's a good chance that at least 20% of the people have ancestors who could channel. Thus, there's a POSSIBILITY that they could (learn to) channel.
However, that DOESN't mean that everyone WILL be able to. Heck, I guess all the people I know have at least ONE ancestor who was left-handed, but not many people ARE!
So the ability to channel might just be dormant in a family line, which would account for it "appearing from nowhere" in Siuan.
19
Khaos: 2004-01-08
I don't think its entirely a ridiculous idea that the BA may have been suggesting a breeding program at Tar Valon in the hopes of getting there hands on the Dragon reborn. Lest we forget that Tar Valon is a mere stones throw from Dragonmount the site of the first sign of the Dragon's rebirth.
20
talera: 2004-05-20
On the idea of channelling being a genetic trait, one piece of evidence that supports this idea is when Talaan, the Windfinder apprentice, tells Nynaeve that she is the fifth generation of Windfinders in her family - and Talaan is going to be very strong in the Power once she reaches her full potential.
This is not irrefutable proof, however there is enough anecdotal evidence to support it.
On the theory of the Black Ajah having an idea for a breeding program, it is not inconceivable. Given the (unproven) evidence of a link between channeling and genetics, one would expect the Black Ajah to explore any way that might possibly have produced the Dragon Reborn.
