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onnections to the Pattern

by WinespringBrother: 2003-02-01 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: The Walking Dead

I'm working on a theory regarding LTT's role in the Dark One's plot to break the pattern, but this is one part of it relating to the ghosts spotted in various locations.

On various occasions, LTT would complain how the dead are never silent. I think that the ghosts are loosened/torn from the pattern in some fashion, and are drifting free. And I think that LTT suffered the same fate when he died - and that it is similar to what RJ mentioned about Fain "sidestepping" the pattern. Ultimately, I think that the Dark One's plan involves removing his archenemy the Dragon from his destiny path, and part of that involved the tainting of saidin. I will post a theory regarding LTT's connection in the near future.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-02-02

When you say torn from the you mean uncontrolled? LTT was reborn, by the Pattern, in the body of Rand Al' wouldn't this remove LTT from your theory? Also, why would the ghosts start showing up now if they are uncontrolled by the Pattern?


WinespringBrother: 2003-02-02

That is true, about LTT being reborn as Rand/The Dragon, but I think there was something twisted about his rebirth. It wasn't according to plan, as I will elaborate.

With regard to the ghosts not appearing before, lets look at the three sightings. The first, Maringil, was only killed in the last year or so, book time. The second, a ghost of some geezer that died at a manor house that Elayne was visiting, was deceased for a long time, so his spirit had to be somewhere during that time (in some kind of limbo). The third, a bunch of ghosts in So Habor, do seem to have been happening for awhile. I will elaborate further as I gather and organize the evidence.


eomer2: 2003-04-04

I think that the ghosts have something to do with the enormous amount of saidin Rand used to cleanse the taint. I will refer to a theory stating that the multiple personalities displayed by male channelers is a result of a breakdown between spiritual barriers. Two souls not intended to meet overlap within the same body. Assuming this only happens to male channelers, it must relate to Saidin. With Rand pouring ridiculous amounts of Saidin into the world, it may be fair to assume that some effects of Saidin(soul-barrier breakdown) could affect the population in general. Whatever force which prevents multiple souls from entering a single body logically would prevent souls from entering the world without a body. Therefore if the ill effects of Saidin's taint can awake past souls within a single person, large amounts could also awaken past souls in a general area.

There is at least one major flaw here though, and that is that Rand emptied the taint onto Shadar Logoth, preventing it from touching the world as a whole. Perhaps someone could help me fill in my theory?


Mairashda: 2003-05-27

The other flaw is that ghosts are spotted even before the cleansing happens: a maid in cairhien spots ghosts (COT, Prologue), Elayne's maid outsinde caemlyn spots a ghost...and there'S always the matter of the two renegade asha'man coming back to life affter fain killed them in far madding...


rubbernilly: 2003-05-28

RJ has already discounted the two-souls idea. Rand is one soul.

And you cannot say that the voice of LTT is the manifestation of Rand's madness, since LTT gives him important information that he did not have, and we see true memories of LTT coming through in Rand (memories of climbing trees that Rand never climbed).

We have seen the madness take an Asha'man (Fedwyn Mor), and it was sudden and drastic.

So with one soul and the voice not owing its origin to madness, it must be something else. The barrier dropping idea has promise, but not between two souls... Rand's soul is the same soul that inhabited the body called Lews Therin. The barrier that feel then would have to be between lives, that LTT memories come through into Rand's life.

What are possible causes of this:

1) Contact by the Creator at the end of tEotW

2) Ta'veren as strong as Rand could have altered the barrier

3) Perhaps LTT, being so close to the Bore and being awash in the Taint went the maddest of all; mad enough that he splintered the psyche of the soul. Now the soul is permantently marked with his personality - his insane personality - no matter what iteration or incarnation it becomes.

He has started to hear the voice before the balefire streams cross in Shadar Logoth, hasn't he? Otherwise that could be a reason, too.


anderwarrick: 2003-06-07

well, rubernilly, you have to remember that it says in the books that the madness can come quickly like with Mor, or it can come in small increments that you dont notice until there are a lot that add up to being something noticeable. So, that can't really be used as evidence because it isn't the only way men go mad.


Weird Harold: 2003-06-07

Rubbernilly said, "3) Perhaps LTT, being so close to the Bore and being awash in the Taint went the maddest of all; mad enough that he splintered the psyche of the soul. Now the soul is permantently marked with his personality - his insane personality - no matter what iteration or incarnation it becomes."

I don't think LTT went measurably more insane than the 113 Companions did. I think he and all of the companions personalities were imprinted on their souls, as you put it. When any of their souls are reborn, the modern day personality has to come to terms with the imprinted personality.

The reason I don't think LTT is went measurably more insane than the 113 Companions is because I think they were the conduits that the Taint passed through to contaminate Saidin -- each got slightly less than 1 percent of the toatlity of the Taint passed through them, while later channelers go mad slowly because they are only exposed to one billionth to pick a "really big" number at random) of a percent or less each time they touch Saidin.

Later male channelers during the breaking don't get the massive blast that imprints the personality on the soul and thus, only *some* later channelers hear voices that know things they shouldn't be able to know -- a la Rand and LTT.

Finally, Taint Madness takes many forms and isn't always apparent. IMHO, Mazrim Taim is totally Looney Tunes, but in a way that seems rational, so everyone thinks he has "held off the madness for fifteen years or so."


Callandor: 2003-06-08

LTT and the remaining Hundred Companions (I think about 68 left) went insane right at the moment that saidin was tainted. That is in the BWB.

The means of tainting saidin was the seals not the Companions.