Females confuse me.

[Dragon Thief]

Yep, title says it all. And no, it's not necessarily saying much, as I'm probably (erm, definitely) not the ideal control for an experiment of understanding women.

So, I forget what we (my wife & I) were talking about, but it lead to stuff that women do that guys would never, ever do. And somehow, sooner or later, the talk got to women changing in front of each other. It involves naked women, so I'll be the man here and take blame for this part of the converssation. :D

But anyways, talk got to how she will shop for clothes with her female friends, try them on in front of them, etc. But, and this is the difference here, she (and they) have no problems completely changing in front of each other. And I don't mean the physical act of changing - they'll actually look at each other while changing, and "take notes" in a way. You know as in "with the shape of your [insert bodypart], you'd look really good in [insert name of clothing]".

Maybe it's me, but that's odd. When times call for it, I'm comfortable enough to change in front of other people. But it's a task, and not one I really like, so it's change and get it over with. Not change, stop and examine, have a conversation, stop for lunch, then finish dressing kind of thing. And that's how my wife describes it.

Now, it gets weirder. In the past she's had some really close friends who were gay men. No problems here, her or me. But I know she's changed in front of them too, in the same manner (conversations, comparisons, etc) with the explanation that because they're gay it doesn't matter. I don't really have a problem with this either, except for the problem that I really don't understand it.

It's okay to be naked in front of women (who have no desire to see you naked). It's okay to be naked in front of gay men (who have no desire to see you naked). So why is it not okay to be naked in front of guys who want to see you naked? They'll be your biggest fans. Why is the desire / lack of desire the only determining factor? I'll have to ask and see what she says about lesbians - one of her friends in the past was, but I don't know if they ever changed or not (high school friend, before my time).

Now, this isn't a complaint against her, really. I don't really mind, although the gay guy looking causes more reactions than the other women, and I'm smart enough to understand that. It's the doubt that maybe he is fully gay and he doesn't desire my wife issue. :o

But it is something I don't get. Why would anyone be modest around the people who'd most desire to see her in a situation, but not in front of the people who don't really have that desire?

Female posters, please chime in with your thoughts. I'm pretty sure all the guys at theoryland are just gonna try to have a pic session with all of you changing in it, so they aren't gonna be much help. (Mind you, I might chip in the camera if it happens, but I still want your thoughts too. I do read the articles! ;) )

[Terez]

Well, when the desire issue comes into it, so does the insecurity. :p And there's always been the locker room/shower thing for guys....women don't do that. And urinals are open. That's weird - we would never pee in front of anyone...

[Dragon Thief]

To date, I've never taken a communal shower. My school didn't have us do that. The group showers at college had stalls with curtains.

And the only four times since grade school that I've peed in an open urinal are the four times I've taken traffic school located at an elementary school. Which sucks, cause the damn thing's like 1.5 feet off the ground, so I feel all awkward hunching over trying not to man-spray on the walls.

That'll be $1 per visitor for the awesome mental image you just go there. ThankyouverymuchpleasepullthoughandnowTerezhasabir thdaypresent.

[Yuri33]

we would never pee in front of anyone...

That's cause it can be a messy affair, since you have a lot less control over aim. Trust me, if you gals could aim, there would be no problem.

Plus, there are very strict rules at the urinals--maximum distance between users, eyes straight forward, and absolutely no conversation.

Now I think about it, it's not the aim that prevents you from peeing in front of each other, it's the rules :)

edit--wow, I can't believe I used my first post on this...

[Terez]

lol...in the movies, guys are always talking to each other at urinals!

[Dragon Thief]

According to Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), there are two very simple rules to help this sort of situation.

Don't gawk near the c0ck, don't talk near the c0ck. It keeps 90% of all problems in line.

[Gandelail]

Well, when the desire issue comes into it, so does the insecurity. :p And there's always been the locker room/shower thing for guys....women don't do that. And urinals are open. That's weird - we would never pee in front of anyone...

Maybe it's just me, but sometimes I don't understand men OR women. And sometimes I feel like I (a man) understand women better than men. ...

Of course my female friends and wife are pretty stable and rational people, whereas most guys I know are pretty unstable and irrational. Maybe that's it.

[Dragon Thief]

Waitwaitwait. You're bonded to Anaiya, and you don't get wanting to see anyone (and everyone, and them too) naked? Wow, talk about opposites attract, lol. :D

[Terez]

ThankyouverymuchpleasepullthoughandnowTerezhasabir thdaypresent.
Um....thanks?

[Gandelail]

According to Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), there are two very simple rules to help this sort of situation.

Don't gawk near the c0ck, don't talk near the c0ck. It keeps 90% of all problems in line.

Good rules :)

I think those rules are kind of the reasons he posted the thread in the first place... the way his wife described her experience to him, seems to violate rules like this - where they are supposed to gawk so you've got stuff to talk about.

I dunno:confused: :confused:

[Gandelail]

Waitwaitwait. You're bonded to Anaiya, and you don't get wanting to see anyone (and everyone, and them too) naked? Wow, talk about opposites attract, lol. :D

what goes on between an Aes Sedai and her Warder does not need be spoken. ;)

[Dragon Thief]

Um....thanks?

I aim to please. Especially considering this thread (which has seriously been hijacked, and I've helped) in question.

[Terez]

I aim to please. I will remember that. http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/images/smilies/Sly.gif

[Anaiya Sedai]

lol:D i've had female friends tell me they would like to see me naked :D :D

on topic though:
girls get changed together. heck, we even go bra shopping together and try them on in the same cabin. that's because we trust another girls judgement of what looks GOOD a lot more than a guys. Guys just want you to look hot, which, usually, is just slutty.
also, some guys can be really creepy about wanting to see girls naked, and don't always make you feel very comfortable about yourself. personally, I don't like being stared at, knowing what a guy is thinking.
lesbian and bisexual girls are different. we might look, we might enjoy. but we do it in a nice way :P

girls always go to the toilets in groups, and they always talk :D :D

[Brita]

OK- I am probably not the usual gal to talk about this- but I'll sound my opinion:

I agree with Terez that insecurity is a big reason.

I am not a shy girl however, and never bought into that low self-esteem bullsh!t. Societal constraints play a huge role. It is socially OK to expose yourself if it is in a non-sexual manner- but not OK to expose yourself knowing you will be regarded sexually. This of course especially comes into play when you are in a relationship.

It is also not cool to instigate jealousy among your girlfriends. If you think a guy is going to like what he sees, and he's dating your best-friend, you just don't do that.

So it ALL comes down to intentions, especially when in relationships.

Outside of relationships, it is partly about the old "Slut" branding. It is something we have not gotten away from totally. But when I was single (way back when) it was more saving the treat for the lucky boys that deserved it. WE know how much you guys like it, doesn't mean you deserve to get it :p It's called girl power. And we like to keep the you guys wishing and waiting. Or at least I do...I mean did! I did!

[Anaiya Sedai]

lol
Brita just said nicely what I was trying to explain with my drunken brain :D :D :D :D

[Brita]

I hope you're having a good time Anaiya! Let me know if your going to the bathroom, I'll go with you to keep you company. (another thing you will never hear a man say)

[JSUCamel]

For all the women who are curious as to the way men approach urinals in public bathrooms, I refer you to this site:

http://www.drinknation.com/urinaltest.php

kthxbai

[Sei'taer]

I got 60 out of 60...my wife thought I was insane until she saw I scored 100%. She really laughed at the last one!

[Yuri33]

I only got a 5/6--I had no idea about the "couples" theory of urinal separation etiquette. Besides, I'm biased towards taking an end spot anyways. Learn something new every day.

I did get the last one though. I challenge any woman to (honestly) get that one right.

[Terez]

lol...I got 5/6 too. :D I didn't get the last one, but I did consider that option...

[Mort]

Dammit, 4/6. If I knew you could not answer a question I would have :) And I never thought of the couple theory, I had the "stand to the far side if you have to exit quickly" theory :) In hindsight, the answers really make sense :)

[irerancincpkc]

lol...I got 5/6 too. :D I didn't get the last one, but I did consider that option...
Man, I suck at life! You beat me! 4/6... Hey, those last two questions are tricky!

[Davian93]

Couple thoughts, I've done the group shower thing in the military and you simply don't look...its like the rules for the urinal but expanded a bit. Go in, wash as quickly as possible and rinse off and then out of shower...no messing around. All the urinal separation things are correct...if there is a big row of them and I go to the one end and someone comes right next to me...I simply assume they're trying to catch a glimpse of my stuff which in turn pisses me off.



Brita wrote: But when I was single (way back when) it was more saving the treat for the lucky boys that deserved it. WE know how much you guys like it, doesn't mean you deserve to get it It's called girl power. And we like to keep the you guys wishing and waiting. Or at least I do...I mean did! I did!


That's hot.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Allow me to explain, DT. And let me preface my answers, that in this case, I'm ridiculously experienced. Two sisters and Time Served in a sorority and living in The House help.


More than three girls in a dressing room at time is prohibited, logistically and physically, unless you luck out and get one of those handicapped stalls. Also, waiting until at least underwear is on is appreciated to do any evaluation or assessment. More than one girl in the sorority got labelled a lesbian for not observing that rule. Frank assessment while completely bareassed is not welcomed, not even by sisters, it's just cruel.

As far as a homosexual man is concerned or a lesbian woman... I can't say as I've ever gone shopping with either. And they don't allow men of any preference in public dressing rooms. ;)

[Davian93]

Gil wrote: As far as a homosexual man is concerned or a lesbian woman... I can't say as I've ever gone shopping with either.

I've gone shopping with Gay friends before but I've never changed in front of them. My one gay friend (who is a hair stylist...fulfilling his gay stereotype as he calls it) has awesome taste so he always was good at picking things out for me or when I needed to buy something for my GF. You should see the inside of his townhouse...it looks like a bloody model home.

[Sarevok]

yeah... 4/6 here too :(

[Crispin's Crispian]

I got 4/6, too. The coupling theory was new to me, but it makes sense. The last one...well...faced with the situation in reality, I would choose the correct option, but I didn't realize we could. As for the no-talking rules, there's always some guy who wants to break them with a joke.

"Heheheh...we have to stop meeting like this."

Hilarious. Some guy the other day kept going on and on about... You know, nevermind.

Locker room etiquette isn't as obvious, apparently. I've been to a lot of gyms, and there are only two clear rules. 1) No looking, 2) No touching.

Other than that, what people do seems to be individualized.

[Gandelail]

And they don't allow men of any preference in public (women's) dressing rooms. ;)

That's not necessarily true, Gil ;)

bold/parenthetic = my addition

[Rune420]

Speaking of all the talk about urinals, and the "rules" of the bathroom. This would fit in here perfect, to explain to the uninitiated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzO1mCAVyMw&feature=related

On topic: Yeh chickz confuzzlez me.
And for the shower etiquette thing. One more inviolate rule. Never look another man in the eyes, while in the actual shower room. Accidental eye contact is ok, but then you must hurriedly and shamefacedly look away. Double contact (Meeting of the eyes twice) or eyebrow raising is legal grounds for a meeting with my fist. There should never be a need for recognition in the shower room proper. Ever.

[caladanbrood]

I will add my gem of wisdom:
The only thing worse than a woman determined to make a fool of you is a group of women determined to make a fool of you.

Not sure how that fits, but it might...

[Ishara]

There's a big difference between knowing what kind of body your best friend has and what will flatter her based on that (which btw, you don't have to see her naked to do), and exposing your body to someone who will be looking (really, really looking) at all the bits you don't particularly love - like say, stretchmarks, cellulite and oh, I don't know...everything!

You're just more exposed when it's with someone you're attracted to, or who could be attracted to you. You're more vulnerable. My best friend loves me, and doesn't judge me so I don't care that she sees me changing into a bathing suit. My boyfriend loves me and doesn't judge me, and now I don't have (much) of a problem with the whole you see me naked everyday thing, but it's been like 10 years.

Also, the peeing thing totally depends on who you're with. I'll go in front of my family, but not most friends.

[Anaiya Sedai]

I don't get people who pee with the bathroom door wide open. or even like to talk about their bathroom habits.
I don't have much of a problem getting naked in front of some guy with a camera, but I would, if it was minus the camera bit.

I don't mind so much about my friends seeing me when I get changed.. but I don't have that many friends who would ever be in that situation.

[JSUCamel]

So let me get this straight.. you have no problem being naked in front of a camera, but you WOULD have a problem with it if there were NO camera?

[Davian93]

You know what's disgusting? People that talk on their cell phone while taking a crap... I mean seriously...that call couldn't wait a second?

[Brita]

LOL! It's addiction Dav- and soon there will be a Cell Phone Anonymous group (CPA).

[Sei'taer]

~screams running thru the house~ WHERE IS MY CAMERA!!!!? DAMMIT! WHERE IS IT?????

[Terez]

I've had friends flush while on the phone with me. I always hang up when that happens. Rude!

[Sarevok]

~screams running thru the house~ WHERE IS MY CAMERA!!!!? DAMMIT! WHERE IS IT?????
That was my first thought too...:eek:

[Davian93]

Pooping and talking on the phone is just sick...especially in public restrooms...I mean seriously who wants to talk to someone who's crapping?

[Terez]

I don't even want to talk to someone while they're peeing!

[caladanbrood]

Lucky msn has no sound connection eh? :p



ps. JOKING! yeesh:eek:

[Terez]

Yes, I really don't care if you bring your computer to the bathroom, so long as there's no sound. :p

[Crispin's Crispian]

We share our floor at work with a financial company, and all but one or two of the guys have Bluetooth headsets. I've had the misfortune of being in the bathroom with these guys, who believe that their clients are so important that they can't hop off the call to relieve themselves.

That's customer service for you.

"Can you hold on for a sec, I just pissed on my shoe."

[Davian93]

Fun thing to do with annoying Ass on bluetooth. Talk really loud anywhere nearby him because those things pick up everything. So if you start talking about flatulance and other embarrassing stuff, you'll probably get an annoying look and the Ass will walk away. I hate when someone is talking really loud into that thing in a grocery store because they have no concept of how loud they are and then they have the gall to get annoyed when you start talking as if you're in their office or something.

[caladanbrood]

We share our floor at work with a financial company, and all but one or two of the guys have Bluetooth headsets.
I hate those things. I was in a bar yesterday standing next to someone who had one (on the ear I couldn't see). He was clearly having a fairly inane conversation anyway, because he was just making random comments/observations. At first I thought he was talking to me, then I thought he was talking to the barmaid, I only realised he was on the phone when he turned around to walk away from the bar :o

[Brita]

I don't know about the other girls here- but a guy with a Bluetooth=automatic turnoff.

I draw so many unattractive assumptions and form instant prejudices that it negates any physical attractiveness whatsoever (i.e. workaholic, egotistical, self centred etc)

[Davian93]

Note: I don't believe in Bluetooths...

Does anyone else get reminded of Lobot from Empire Strikes Back when they see it in people's ears?

http://www.starwars.com/episode-v/explore/classic/2002/02/img/topheavylobot_bg.jpg

[Terez]

All the bosses at my job have them because they have to deal with stuff over the phone while working (cooking, etc.). That's understandable. I get annoyed by them sometimes, though...especially when I can't figure out if someone is talking to me or on the phone...

[Brita]

I guess I just don't find high-flying executives/ business men/ entrepreneurs and so on that think business is too important to be able to actually hang up a phone and live life very attractive.

Wearing one in the workplace is one thing, wearing one when you take your son to a baseball game is another.

I had a neighbour that had a cell phone to his ear while playing catch with his son- ALL THE TIME! That was before Bluetooth- I'm sure he has one of those now. At least then he can catch and throw while dealing with his very important business- blech!

[Crispin's Crispian]

I guess I just don't find high-flying executives/ business men/ entrepreneurs and so on that think business is too important to be able to actually hang up a phone and live life very attractive.

Wearing one in the workplace is one thing, wearing one when you take your son to a baseball game is another.

I had a neighbour that had a cell phone to his ear while playing catch with his son- ALL THE TIME! That was before Bluetooth- I'm sure he has one of those now. At least then he can catch and throw while dealing with his very important business- blech!
I only ever wear my headset when (a) I'm in the car, or (b) I'm cooking or cleaning at home.

My question is this: if cellphones give you brain cancer, how bad must it be to have a megapowerful Bluetooth headset right behind your ear?

[Gilshalos Sedai]

~raises hand~ I, too, am reminded of Lobot.

[Terez]

haha, Crispy has a Bluetooth!

my, how we have digressed...

[Brita]

So true Terez!

Gentlemen- how did you ever let a thread that started as women discussing their nudity digress into a Bluetooth discussion?

Shame on you.

[Anaiya Sedai]

hmm, maybe I didn't say this right... I don't have a problem doing nude modeling. but if I just had to get naked for the guy without being photographed, I would feel very uncomfortable. (let me just clear up the fact that nude stands for Art Nude, meaning tasteful stuff in b/w! don't get some fantasy into your heads :P)

my dad once did a job interview on the phone in the loo....what could be worse?

[Sarevok]

Brita is right... usually the discussion goes the other way...

[DeiwosTheSkyGod]

The best is when people are by themselves and talking on a bluetooth. They look absolutely ridiculous.

[Davian93]

So true Terez!

Gentlemen- how did you ever let a thread that started as women discussing their nudity digress into a Bluetooth discussion?

Shame on you.


I know...what the heck is wrong with us? Back to nudity...So Brita...How you doin':cool:


I had a neighbour that had a cell phone to his ear while playing catch with his son- ALL THE TIME! That was before Bluetooth- I'm sure he has one of those now. At least then he can catch and throw while dealing with his very important business- blech!

That is so sad...I could never do that to my kid. Kids know when you arent really paying attention and it hurts. What a jerk.

[Brita]

I know...what the heck is wrong with us? Back to nudity...So Brita...How you doin':cool:


Well Dav- under these clothes I'm wearing nothing :cool:

(where's a good flirt smilie when you need one?)

[Davian93]

Well Dav- under these clothes I'm wearing nothing :cool:

(where's a good flirt smilie when you need one?)

Keep talking....




P.S. A lack of suitable emotiocons is seriously hampering this conversation.

[JSUCamel]

Is it nude modelling if you're not getting photographed?

I feel like you're being redundant.

[caladanbrood]

(where's a good flirt smilie when you need one?)
http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/images/smilies/Sly.gif

[Terez]

Read my mind, Brood. :D

It's your fault (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3572&postcount=35) we got off track, Dav. Don't let it happen again. :p

[caladanbrood]

Maybe we could discuss people who use bluetooth while naked... would it still count as naked?


Intruiging.

[Brita]

LOL! Bluetooth could be perfect for online flirting- or would it count for online flirting- probably more like phone sex once a Bluetooth is involved...

or is it phone sex? maybe there should be a new term...

[Terez]

cam sex.

[Davian93]

Oh yeah...I bluetoothed her!!! ;)

[Terez]

That sounds....painful...

[Crispin's Crispian]

LOL! Bluetooth could be perfect for online flirting- or would it count for online flirting- probably more like phone sex once a Bluetooth is involved...

or is it phone sex? maybe there should be a new term...


gPod (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291097,00.html)

[Davian93]

That sounds....painful...

LOL...It does...doesn't it.

[Terez]

Boring. :D iVibe. (http://www.deepmemories.com/iVibe-Rabbit-Vibrator--Waterproof_p_47.html)

[Davian93]

Boring. :D iVibe. (http://www.deepmemories.com/iVibe-Rabbit-Vibrator--Waterproof_p_47.html)

It must be interesting if it didn't make it through the firewall...

[Brita]

See? Bluetooth just isn't meant to be sexy....

Let's try: I'm gonna get a little BT tonight...nope, sounds like a fast food order.

Ummm: Let's get our blue on...nah.

Anyway- Dav- where were we? ;)

[Crispin's Crispian]

"Let's do this, baby; you're totally giving me bluetooth."

Nah.

"So, uh...do you Bluetooth?"

"Wanna come back to my place for some wine and a little bluetooth?"

[Davian93]

"Let's do this, baby; you're totally giving me bluetooth."

Nah.

"So, uh...do you Bluetooth?"

"Wanna come back to my place for some wine and a little bluetooth?"

Little...That's just sad...

[Terez]

Big teeth are scary.

[Crispin's Crispian]

Little...That's just sad...
hahaha

Well, if you say "big bluetooth" it sounds pretty strange. Like you're sharing some candy or something.

[Terez]

"Wanna come back to my place for some wine and a little bluetooth?"
If she's coming to your place, what's the point in the Bluetooth? You guys should be able to hear each other fine. :p

[Davian93]

I think we've pretty much beaten the bluetooth thing into the ground at this point...

[Terez]

All your fault, Dav.

Now...back to cam sex...

[caladanbrood]

Where?:eek:

[Terez]

You and Tiste should get a cam, Brood. http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/images/smilies/Sly.gif

[caladanbrood]

"Should get"?


Urr, I mean... that's revolting! :eek:

[Brita]

Wow- I go to see a patient for 15 mins and look at what I miss...

Why does work have to interfere with suggestive online chatting? Seriously.

[Cary Sedai]

Ok, to the orginal topic:

I'll change in front of girls, I don't care. Bi girls, Lesbian girls...whoever. Gay men, sure. I was in the "shower posse" in High School. Out of our whole basketball team we were the only 5 who took showers after practice and games. No stalls, all open. Plenty of looking but who cares!

Also, I'll pee in front of people, I dont' really care. If we are on the phone, I'll warn you first! Not the other, though...ewww.

Hmm...bluetooth, annoying. I don't even particularly like my cell phone.

and...

Boring. :D iVibe.

HAWT! Too bad you can't look, Dav! ;)

[Zaela Sedai]

I'm not quite sure what to say about this thread... o_O


To answer DT, I never had an issue changing infront of friends, guys or girls as long as underwear and bra were both on....depended on the guy though and the situation. I see as more covered than a bathingsuit.

That being said I get somewhat insecure when it comes to being intimate, maybe its the "i really want you to be attracted to me but theres all these things wrong with me" attitude? I don't know. We all have our insecurities even if they arent validated. I'm incredibly insecure though when it comes right down to it.


I hate seeing people not in a car wearing a bluetooth.


My husband not only talks on the phone in the bathroom, but also plays PSP, emails and reads.... I think he spends more time in there then he does in bed...thank god theres no tv...though its been mention for the new bathroom...

[Davian93]

Zae wrote: I'm incredibly insecure though when it comes right down to it.


You definitely SHOULDN'T be Zae...I'll stop there as you are married...

[irerancincpkc]

I remember I had a gym teacher once who would make everyone all take a shower at once (it was a big room with a lot of shower heads), and it was don't look, but most of the guys did talk...

[Anaiya Sedai]

we used to have those communal showers in elementary school...and we had to have showers together before and after swimming lessons... and the supervisor woman always used to give us instructions - i can still hear her now, actually - "now the soap.."
it was weird :D :D :D

[irerancincpkc]

I went to a small enough elementary school that we didn't have a pool, I think it was eighth grade I had that guy. He wouldn't tell us to use the soap :D, but he made sure we were all clean.

[Anaiya Sedai]

eww

she was a right old dominatrix..even used to turn the water cold on us at the end..
and we wouldn't be allowed to leave the showers until we were all rinsed.. they would probably put her on e sex offenders register nowadays.:eek:

[Brita]

Davian Said: You definitely SHOULDN'T be Zae...I'll stop there as you are married...

Seconded Z- although I've just seen a couple of pictures- you look beautiful. Don't buy into the low self-esteem bullshit girl- don't do it I tells ya!

None of us are perfect- not even Anaiya :p (I'm sure she could rattle off her less fav parts like any of us), but that's normal and that's life and guys don't need you to be perfect, and ANY guy here will vouch for that. I know you've heard it before, but take it from someone who's lived her life this way- I am not the best looking girl on the block (well except that time I went to the senior's polka night- that was fun!) but I love myself the way I am. I look at myself in the mirror and see me, and I like it. I don't know how you can change it- but life is much more comfortable when you are comfortable in your own skin.

I am convinced side-by-side you'd put me to shame, except that's OK with me 'cause I am who I am- and that's the beauty of it.

[Anaiya Sedai]

hell, me, perfect? i wish..but then again... perfect is boring. i have this awesome article bookmarked somewhere about how guys usually like the not-perfect girls much more than the others (who all look the same)... maybe when I feel up to actually finding something on my computer, I will find it for you. right now it takes all the effort just to get the letters in the right order.. maybe I should call it a night at 2.30 am :D

oh, and zae, I agree with brita, you're beautiful, be proud of it!

[irerancincpkc]

eww

she was a right old dominatrix..even used to turn the water cold on us at the end..
and we wouldn't be allowed to leave the showers until we were all rinsed.. they would probably put her on e sex offenders register nowadays.:eek:
Yeah, they forced the guy I had to retire the year after I had him... couldn't have done it one year earlier, I guess...

[Zaela Sedai]

ah crap....i was hoping ya'll would get my meaning...lol

Its not the low self esteem trap...but I think many people are insecure about themselves. All for different reasons. Its hard not to be these days. My issue is that I have a VERY difficult time letting go and I'm VERY jealous. (at least I can admit it) I had a hell of a time growing up and I STILL can't let go of highschool 10 years later. Thats where my insecurities stem from. My point was that when it comes to intemacy, insecurities come out, where in casual settings it doesn't matter too much. You dont care what they think you care what the person you want thinks.

I'm not the only one! I know I'm not!!! Luckily for me Jay is also extremely jealous so it works, lol. We're both so aware of how the other feels neither of ever do anything that sets off the other (well when it comes to the opposite sex...he's very good at setting me off in other aspects of life LOL)... that probably sounds weird... ~shrug~

And those gym teachers are sick.......

And i'm getting tired of the lack of emotes http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a241/Zaela/emotes/pissedcg7.gif so i shall use my own lol.http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a241/Zaela/emotes/bananadevil.gif

[caladanbrood]

hell, me, perfect? i wish..but then again... perfect is boring. i have this awesome article bookmarked somewhere about how guys usually like the not-perfect girls much more than the others (who all look the same)
It's to do with contrast - the good parts of someone's personality/body are even more awesome in comparison :)

Not sure that's worded right, really... but I know what I mean.

[Davian93]

Brita wrote: Why does work have to interfere with suggestive online chatting? Seriously

It is ridiculous sometimes...definitely not fair.

[Anaiya Sedai]

now I'm sober...
http://www.elle.com/featurefullstory/13908/walter-kirn-on-relationships-june-2008-elle.html

god, my head hurts...

[caladanbrood]

It doesn't like my browser (Opera) and the graphics are all over the shop... someone care to summarise?

[Brita]

That crooked nose. That untamed hair. The enormous appetite. The hottest girl in the room isn’t who you think. Why pretty isn’t (always) sexy.

She ain't pretty she just looks that way. :cool:

[JSUCamel]

To me, there has to be some sort of physical attraction as well as any other intellectual/emotional attraction. To say looks don't matter is just a flat out lie.

I have to be able to look into the face of my significant other for the rest of my life. If she's ass ugly, can I really do that?

On the other hand, celebrity/supermodel looks aren't required.

Looks are important enough that they're a factor, but they're not the MAIN factor. The main factors, to me, are intelligence and self-confidence.

For example, I'm dating a girl right now whom I find to be fairly attractive. She's not supermodel hot, but she's very far from being ugly. She's attractive to me.

But her personality is a lot less so. She's very insecure, and she spends most of her time clinging and being needy. She gets upset if I add a female friend on Facebook or Myspace. She can't take a compliment. She complains constantly about how fat she is.

I'm seriously getting tired of it, and every day that this goes on I like her less and less. And I've told her so, yet she keeps persisting.

And if we break up, it'll all be my fault. It's always the guy's fault.

[Terez]

^Prime example of why toys are better than boys. :D

[John Snow]

now I'm sober...
http://www.elle.com/featurefullstory/13908/walter-kirn-on-relationships-june-2008-elle.html

god, my head hurts...
Just so long as you haven't got pastry in your slippers again.......

[Davian93]

So basically he dated a bunch of beyotches in college so when this plain jane girl is nice to him, she's beautiful and all other "pretty" girls are evil now...or just stupid and self-centered. As I am with what I consider a prototypical "hot blonde" who was the head cheerleader in HS, a beauty pageant winner, etc etc yet who is also a Satellite Comm Engineer and quite brilliant, I don't buy this BS from a guy who got treated like crap by someone so now all women are evil except for his "cinderella" Sounds like quite the disorder to have.

To make a controversial opinion known here: The ugler a person feels on the inside the ruder they are on the outside. Alot of times, these "ugly" people will be super fake-nice to you and then bash you behind your back for no reason out of jealousy that they weren't asked to their prom or that some guy turned them down once. It doesn't matter if you are nice to them or geniunely think they are a good person...they will still bash you.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Cinderella was pretty before her Fairy Godmother was the crux of the article.

And, wow, Dav, that's not what he said at all.


I happen to be the Plain Jane. The Winggirl. And when I happened to get asked to dance or got a phone number before the "pretty girl" I was with did, she often got mad and left in a huff (that was also the last time I "winged" that particular girl, too).


The author is telling guys to stop drooling over the Plastics and try a few Tracy Turnblatt's.

[Davian93]

But her personality is a lot less so. She's very insecure, and she spends most of her time clinging and being needy. She gets upset if I add a female friend on Facebook or Myspace. She can't take a compliment. She complains constantly about how fat she is.

I couldn't be with someone like that. If you aren't confident in yourself, then you are always negative and it kills relationships.

[Brita]

I agree camel. But you nailed the issue right on the head- it's about confidence.

Two girls walk into a bar- one is a 6 and one is a 8 on a scale of 10. The 8 girl walks in looking down, arms wrapped around herself looking timid.

The 6 girl walk in with a sassy sway, making eye contact and a little smile playing on her lips.

Which one will the guys notice?

Of course looks play a role, but we are talking about average girls being insecure because they don't look like supermodels.

[Davian93]

And, wow, Dav, that's not what he said at all.


I'll admit I only read the first page...I got the not liking plastic thing...I can't stand it personally...I suppose he went into more detail in the final few pages?

[Davian93]

Of course looks play a role, but we are talking about average girls being insecure because they don't look like supermodels

has anyone actually looked at "super" models lately...They're usually like 6 feet tall, 90 lbs, bones sticking out and look like they're on heroin. Its not the most attractive look on earth. They are basically hangers that can walk down a runway and turn around...

[Terez]

We watched a video in my psychology class about anorexia, and they focused a bit on the modeling industry. Would you believe that some of those hangers have been told they need to lose weight? lol...

[Zaela Sedai]

So you guys are saying that noone should have insecurities about themselves? Thats BS cause almost everyone has them...if you say you dont you're lying...for the most part.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

I'll admit I only read the first page...I got the not liking plastic thing...I can't stand it personally...I suppose he went into more detail in the final few pages?


Yes. Like I said, he was telling guys that skinny, boney and plastic is often a waste of time. That Cinderella pre-Fairy Godmother and the Tracy Turnblatt's of this world are far more interesting.


And Z, saying we shouldn't, isn't the same as not having them. Most people think they need to loose a few pounds, whether they medically should or not. THAT's what they're talking about.

[Anaiya Sedai]

he went into detail about all the girls he dated, the perfect model, who was too perfect and too similar to all the other pretty girls, the cheerleaders...

I like this bit:

In the fairy tale, Cinderella goes unnoticed until her appearance is magically transformed to match little girls’ ideal of loveliness, which they grow up believing is little boys’ ideal of loveliness. This belief is wrong, though. And I should know, because I’m a grown-up boy who longs for Cinderellas who’ve never touched a pair of glass slippers—who are plenty alluring barefoot. I prefer them to some princesses I’ve danced with. I prefer them—these unconventional-looking women who too frequently call themselves ugly or imperfect when they ought to call themselves perfecting—because their transformations are still ongoing.

and snow: no pastry in my slippers, no pears down my top this time.. many many empty packs of all sorts all around the spot where I sat with my laptop last night...:rolleyes:

[Davian93]

We watched a video in my psychology class about anorexia, and they focused a bit on the modeling industry. Would you believe that some of those hangers have been told they need to lose weight? lol...

lol...hangers are ugly.

Dav's opinion of beauty: Nice to look at is important but confidence is very sexy...as is intelligence. I get annoyed by stupidity so I wouldn't be able to be with someone who is slow (or even much slower than me) and ~arrogantly~ I am considered fairly intelligent by most standards. This greatly limits the dating pool for me. I tried having the dumb (but hot) GF and it sucked. We had nothing in common and I felt like I was a babysitter. Kinda like Bryan (the dog) dating Jillian on Family Guy. Decent physically but smart and confident is very sexy.

[Davian93]

So you guys are saying that noone should have insecurities about themselves? Thats BS cause almost everyone has them...if you say you dont you're lying...for the most part.

Everyone has insecurities Zae...Its only a problem when you let them take over your life...like what Camel was describing.

[Anaiya Sedai]

what about fake confidence? girls that just appear to be confident?
In women, I find intelligence almost more important than looks.. I dated this girl once who was absolutely stunning, and she thought she was clever too...but she used to drive me up the wall with stupid comments and questions.. and just a general lack of common sense.

[Davian93]

what about fake confidence? girls that just appear to be confident?

That's horrible and you can find out if its real or not if you pay attention while dating...no one can lie 24 hours a day...they slip up eventually with stupid comments like "Do you think she's better looking than me?" and crap like that...

[Anaiya Sedai]

i have to agree with zae here, everyone has insecurities - if someone wasn't in the slightest self concious, then they would be all perfect and plastic again.

[JSUCamel]

So you guys are saying that noone should have insecurities about themselves? Thats BS cause almost everyone has them...if you say you dont you're lying...for the most part.

It has less to do with being insecure as it has to do with letting those insecurities become the crux of every conversation you have.

I've got a lot of issues with myself -- especially considering that I wear a hearing aid and that's incredibly obvious to anyone I meet. I can't participate in huge group gatherings cause I can't follow conversations. I don't think I'm the best looking guy on the planet. I feel like a dumbass more often than not, even though people constantly tell me how smart I am. When I find out people have been talking about me when I'm not around, I'm not angry -- I'm bewildered. What could I have possibly done that warrants conversation?

But I don't let that stop me, and I don't let that become a barrier to me living life. If I did, I'd be lonely and miserable and hiding in my room for the rest of my life.

You said you're a jealous, insecure type, Zae. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. You're absolutely right, everyone is insecure about something. The problem would come from if you let that insecurity interfere with your relationship. If every time Jay left the house, you demanded to know where he was going, who he was meeting with, and that he call you every hour on the hour, that's going to be a problem somewhere down the road.

If you starved yourself to lose weight, if you puked after every meal, if you took drugs, if you did crazy, illegal things to keep his attention, because you're afraid he won't love you if you don't -- then that's a problem.

And you don't even have to go to those extremes. If you asked him every day, "Do you love me?" that's going to grate on his nerves whether he loves you or not.

Insecurity is natural, yes. But self-confidence is partly ignoring your insecurities and pushing ahead anyway.

Here's a true story about me:

When I was in first grade, I was in a play at day camp. I played one of the wise men in the story, and we had this paper beard with cotton balls glued on top. I was sweating pretty bad, and my paper beard fell apart and fell off my face. I was mortified. I was certain that all six hundred people watching had their eyes glued on me, and that they were all laughing at me.

Ever since then, I would refuse to speak in front of groups of people. I would rather take a zero on an assignment than give a report in front of the class. This is the major reason why I didn't have a 4.0 in high school.

My freshman year of college I was required to take "Oral Communications", or speech class. I was terrified. I opted to take it in a summer term so I could get it over with faster.

Our first "speech" was to read from a book aloud. Any book we chose. I grabbed "The Hobbit" on my way out the door that morning and picked a few paragraphs from the first chapter. "Hobbits are..." I'm a fast reader, so I was able to look up often. I picked two people out there, and looked at them every time I looked up.

The teacher gave me an A. She wrote "You must have practiced!"

The next speech was on a quality about ourselves.

I got up there and I said:

"Uhh.. My quality is that.. uh.. I'm, uh.. terrified of getting up in, uh... front of people.. Um.. I get really nervous, and uh.. I shake real bad... and uh.. I st-st-stutter and st-stuff... and uh. i say 'Uh' a lot and uh... i guess it's because, uh.. everyone's staring at me,.. uh.. like you guys are staring at me now.. um.."

I was shaking. I was sweating. I was about to piss my pants, I was so nervous. And I just rattled on about every symptom that I was experiencing at the moment.

The next day the grades came back. I got an A.

"Great job! Your acting was funny!"

The teacher thought I was acting! She didn't realize I was literally about to shit myself!

That's when I had an epiphany: People don't want you to screw up. They're going to project their feelings at the moment on your behavior. If they like you even a little bit, they're going to assume the best about your behavior. If they don't like you or if they're in a bad mood, they're more likely to assume the worst.

After that, I was able to convince myself to audition for a play. I auditioned and got a part. I spent the next eight years developing my acting and directing chops, and now I can get up in front of any number of people and speak all day long. I taught public high school for 2 years.

You see, I had realized that anyone who came to see me in a play had paid MONEY to see a GOOD performance. They didn't want me to do poorly. So even if I did mess up, they'd assume it was part of the show, or they'd ignore it. Even if they go "Oh man, he fucked up", they'd forget about it ten minutes later.

Knowing that, I was able to go on stage and not worry about whether or not I was going to screw up. If I did, so what?

And that's the approach that I take towards a lot of things in life. Even if I'm insecure about my hearing loss, I still force myself to go into situations where I may or may not be embarrassed, where I may or may not be made fun of. Because I have to believe that people won't take advantage of me, that people are understanding, and that if I make the effort, it will pay off.

And that's how insecure people SHOULD be. If you're insecure about something, there's nothing wrong with it. But there is something wrong if you let it control your actions. Push it away, hide it away, overcome it, whatever -- just deal with them somehow.

Self-confident people aren't people without insecurities. They're people who have learned to live with their insecurities and learned to deal with them.

[Brita]

Great story Camel! I got tingles :)

Self-confident people aren't people without insecurities. They're people who have learned to live with their insecurities and learned to deal with them.

Perfectly said!

[Zaela Sedai]

Just making sure....


Also I think many of us make the "you think she's better" comments. Girls are notoriously jealous, its just who we are...most of us anyhow. I used to be one of those insanely insecure girls...I approached the problem by only dating subpar guys...hell I married one (first marriage), my thought was that they'll constantly try to make me happy and well, they'd never find anyone better than me so I'd be pretty much worshipped. And well that was the case...til I couldn't stand looking at them anymore and found that there was no prettyness inside them either.

Thank god I met Jay, and thank god he pursued me cause at that point I was convinced he was too good for me, lol. I now know better :p (yes I'm takling about the tard on my lap in my avatar)

Lately I've grown up, still fight the insecurities but never once do I think he's off looking for someone better and all that BS. I figure by the time I'm 30 it'll all be ironed out.

[Anaiya Sedai]

wow camel. thanks for that.
what you just said pretty much sums up all the conversations I've had with people and lecturers in the last few weeks, about performing. they said exactly the same. but somehow it sounds more believable coming from you.
thank you.

[Davian93]

by only dating subpar guys...hell I married one (first marriage), my thought was that they'll constantly try to make me happy and well, they'd never find anyone better than me so I'd be pretty much worshipped.

Hehe...Thumbdrive.

Nah, those guys take out their insecurities on you and are often abusive. My fiance's friend is married to a guy like that and he is such a prick. They tried to get us to hang out together but he think's I'm a pansy because I do things like cook and clean and help out my fiance. He's the classic Baptist guy who doesn't "Know how" to do dishes, laundry, cook etc. He tells his wife this crap and she buys it so he comes home and sits on the couch all night doing nothing. He's a real jerk.

Example of his jerkness: One day my fiance and her friend (the wife) went out to eat at work for lunch. They walked into a italian sandwich/pizza place and the husband was there having lunch with his work buddy. She goes up to surprise him and puts her hands over his eyes and says "Guess Who?" He goes "What the heck are YOU doing here?" extremely rudely. She tells him that she's getting lunch and picking it up for the office as well. He freaks out as says "I hope they're paying cause we don't have money" Mind you he's at lunch with his buddy from work...She turns to his buddy an asks (quite smartly) "so are You paying for his meal?" The buddy replies "No, he's paying for both of us..." She then says "so you can pay for you to go out". She basically just left at that point but it was pretty messed up. He's one of those guys that wants a mother for a wife who does everything but is his slave. He's also a momma's boy. For mothers day (they have 2 of their own kids) he took his entire family to NJ (about 8 hours away) for basically one day to visit his mommy...and ignored his wife (also a mom) the whole time. He apparently took his mommy to brunch as well while his wife had to watch the kids the whole time...He's a real winner.

[Brita]

@ Davs story- Blech!

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Also I think many of us make the "you think she's better" comments. Girls are notoriously jealous, its just who we are...most of us anyhow.


Don't think I've EVER said that, or even thought it. If he's going to go around thinking, that, too, then perhaps we shouldn't be married.


Good thing Bryan doesn't. :)

[Zaela Sedai]

Nah, those guys take out their insecurities on you and are often abusive.

Oh God yes.

[Davian93]

@ Davs story- Blech!


Brita...it gets better. He "gives" her an allowance...at least he used to. Now they can't "afford" her allowance because they're going on vacation on a month and her temp job will be done...Mind you she's actually a realtor on top of her admin job she's doing right now. Its really sick...the allowance is/was like $30 a week...including food for her lunches...He's a control freak.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

So, the homely people are automatically insecure and mean? Gimme a break.


Again, it's not the appearance that matters, y'all. It's what's inside. I've known plenty of beautiful, but ugly, people in my life and I've known ugly, but beautiful, too. If you can't get over your insecurities, you're not pleasant to be around, PERIOD.

[Davian93]

So, the homely people are automatically insecure and mean? Gimme a break.

I don't think anyone said that Gil. Homely or beauty queen: you can be insecure... Everyone's insecure about something.

[Brita]

@ davs sad, sad story- Blech, blech, blech!!

And Z- I am so happy you found someone that treats you right!

[Davian93]

Blech, blech, blech!!


Yeah...I honestly think they should get divorced (or at least get some counseling)...I also think he's cheating on her but I have no proof of it other than how abusive he is towards her.

my fiance told me the story and my first reaction was, "I bet he's cheating on her..." I don't know why it was my first reaction but it just came out.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Because men like that, the controlling types, are usually cheating bastards. They way they keep from getting found out is to control the wife.


Sounds like she needs to run away, far away, and sue him for LOTS of alimony. ;)

[Davian93]

Sounds like she needs to run away, far away, and sue him for LOTS of alimony.

Unfortunately she probably never will. They got married way too young (19 years old) and they are Christian (she is...he's more baptist) so divorce is a big big no no for them as it would hurt their social standing with the church, family, etc etc. The funny/sad thing is that SHE never complains about him but he is a real a$$. There are tons of other things he's done but it would be redundant...those two quick ones are typical of how he is. I'm guessing he's around 1"-2"

[Brita]

I was going through the pictures of me on Facebook- and there are some where I look great, and some where I look AWEFUL!

You know- we all have good days and bad, good moments and bad- we all have insecurities. I was tempted to remove the tag from the bad pictures, especially for those old boyfriends that might be creeping, but then I thought- no way! The worst pictures are when I am all out laughing, face all scrunched and red, chubby cheeks in full splendor, imperfect teeth fully displayed, but I am with my friends having a great time and I like that part of me too. So I fought my insecurity and chose to accept that part of me that happened to be caught on camera at a very inopportune time :p

I left the tag on.

(I'd even post it here if I could figure out how.)

[Gilshalos Sedai]

they are Christian (she is...he's more baptist)

ROTFLMAO! You mean Baptists aren't Christian?

I'm sure if she caught him cheating on her, she'd change her mind. Most women do.

[Davian93]

ROTFLMAO! You mean Baptists aren't Christian?

I'm sure if she caught him cheating on her, she'd change her mind. Most women do.


Well...in my experience they usually aren't very Christian.

The key Gil is that she would have to catch him first.

[caladanbrood]

(I'd even post it here if I could figure out how.)
You just copy the URL of the picture and put it inside image tags:<url>

[Brita]

It's not in url format though- not the facebook pictures. I tried posting the address line between [/img], but it didn't accept that. I tried copying the picture to my computer and the C&P, but that didn't work either.

I'm probably missing something very simple...

[Zaela Sedai]

I think most Baptists are under 2"....

~shudders to rememeber those 3 months of my life~

~hopes theres no nice southern baptists here~

[JSUCamel]

On Facebook, go to the album page, and at the bottom there's a link that says "Share this album with your friends, even if they don't have facebook!" and underneath is the link. Copy that and paste it here.

[Brita]

Aaah- thx Camel, now I have to think about whether I actually will or not :)

[Zaela Sedai]

INSECURE INSECURE BURN HER BURN HER


ermm... yeah time to go home for the day

[Brita]

yeahyeah- LOL.

Just for you (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=21071&l=e2dea&id=590979604) then :)

[Anaiya Sedai]

lol brita :D

I added you as a friend btw.

[Brita]

I added you as a friend btw.

Woohoo! Accepted!

[Davian93]

yeahyeah- LOL.

Just for you (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=21071&l=e2dea&id=590979604) then :)

Brita's a cutie :)

[Brita]

heheh- thx Dav- I just hope not too many people will read this far into such a long thread :p

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Well, you did remind me to fix my sig, Brita.

[caladanbrood]

It's not in url format though- not the facebook pictures. I tried posting the address line between [/img], but it didn't accept that. I tried copying the picture to my computer and the C&P, but that didn't work either.

I'm probably missing something very simple...
Well you need the URL of the actual image, not the page it's on (right click - properties) but no matter, heh.

[Terez]

Yeah, that's how I linked all of Anaiya's hawt pics for Sare. I think that's what inspired him to get a Facebook account. :D

I added you too, Brita...

[Anaiya Sedai]

lol terez :D

I thought he might have some ulterior motive :P

[Terez]

The timing was telling, wasn't it? :D




psst...it's "ulterior"

[Zaela Sedai]

Boooo Brita! I cant go there til after work LOL. I'll have to transfer my photos to a facebook album.... MySpace is so much better!

[Davian93]

Boooo Brita! I cant go there til after work LOL. I'll have to transfer my photos to a facebook album.... MySpace is so much better!

I thought you were going home?

[Anaiya Sedai]

lol thanks, that's what happens whan you are trying to sort out music and typing at the same time :D

yeah, the timing was pretty..uhm...:P
now thanks to the drunkposting all day yesterday I have no more secrets from sare..or camel..or whoever else saw those pics.. *hides*

[Brita]

I added you too, Brita...

Accepted! Facebook rocks!

I think I may just delete my MySpace account now that TL has access my Facebook account.

[Davian93]

now thanks to the drunkposting all day yesterday I have no more secrets from sare..or camel..or whoever else saw those pics.. *hides*

What pics are those?

[Terez]

Yeah, I pretty much only keep MySpace because of the WoT group I post on there. Compared to Facebook, it pretty much sucks in all ways...

[Terez]

yeah, the timing was pretty..uhm...:P
now thanks to the drunkposting all day yesterday I have no more secrets from sare..or camel..or whoever else saw those pics.. *hides*
I want to see! :D

<-- is not a lesbian, but still...

[Davian93]

I want to see! :D

<-- is not a lesbian, but still...


LOL...Thanks for the clarification, T... :)

[Anaiya Sedai]

lol
the one's a photographer put on deviant art.
I'm sure someone will figure out how to find them :P (or someone might just tell :D)

[Zaela Sedai]

I said I need to leave...

I have 45 min left lol

[irerancincpkc]

Well this was very interesting to come home and read. :D I'm engaged in my own personal rebellion against facebook/myspace though... :D

Getting back kind of on topic, I know what attracted me right off the bat about my girlfriend was her confidence. She almost has too much. :)

[jason wolfbrother]

6/6 for me. I knew to comb my hair and I just knew there was a reason the guy at #2 was by himself and #5 and 6 were so far away ;)

as for the original topic ~scrolls up~

nude with camera okay...nude with no camera no good?

~scrolls some more~

ahh woman are confusing...


DUH!!!!!

I've never been uncomfortable changing in front of my brothers or other guys. I've wrestled since I was 8 years old and every saturday when there was a wrestling tournament I would have to weigh in. wearing nothing but underwear. everyone wrestling weighed in at the same time. whether they were 8 or 18 they were in nothing but briefs and a shiver. those concrete floors are cold ;)

changing in front of a girl? I'll change shirts but that's it. my pants stay on til I'm alone. and I've never had the privilege of watching a girl change, except for my girlfriend. and only when she was my girlfriend.


I was never really self-conscious in grade school or high school. the wrestling weigh-ins pretty much cured me of that. After High School I did get a lot more self-confidence though. maybe I just matured, I don't know but I stopped even thinking about what anyone thought about me. Only ones I had to impress were already impressed.

[DeiwosTheSkyGod]

I'm engaged in my own personal rebellion against facebook/myspace though... :D

Me too, and I miss it so badly! :o

[Zaela Sedai]

Hey warder, we both have the same quote... I took out harry and who said it was not to spoil the book LOL

[irerancincpkc]

Me too, and I miss it so badly! :o
I never even started, so I don't have the nasty withdrawals. :cool:

[JSUCamel]

I think this was the urinal thread.

http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-graphs-occupations-of.gif

[Terez]

Why not partitions? I don't get it. With no partitions, then the full number of urinals will never be in use, so that's a waste of money. :p

[caladanbrood]

Yeah, but if someone is using 4, then 3 and 5 become useless, so you use - thus all five are justified:)

Partitions make no difference. Unless they were full cubicles anyway, in which case the urinal would be pointless:p

[Terez]

Why wouldn't partitions help? At least then you couldn't see the dude next to you...

[caladanbrood]

By which stage they're basically cubicles anyway, and thus we come full circle;)

[Terez]

Okay, I thought you were talking about closed stalls. I don't see how "cubicles" defeats the purpose of a urinal. You still don't have to bother with a stall door or aiming at a too-low toilet. :p

[Gilshalos Sedai]

We can't possibly understand, Terez, we're women. We only have to get undressed to go pee.

[Davian93]

We can't possibly understand, Terez, we're women. We only have to get undressed to go pee.

Even with partitions there is still the possibility of looking over them if the guy is tall enough...there is also the terrifying possibility of an accidental brush by where the guys coat or arm hits you on his way in and/or out of the urinal area.

~shudders~

You have no idea the stress we have in the bathroom.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Big baby.

[Yuri33]

Re: partitions for urinals

I have been to men's rooms where there are partitions, but they are the exception rather than the norm.

There are, I believe, 2 reasons for the absence of partitions for urinals:

1. In the washroom, all men (gay or not) have some latent homophobia. It's the reason there are such complex rules for urinal use. But all of this fear is unspoken and unacknowledged, and the reason for that is because (in mens' minds) to admit such fear is to diminish one's own masculinity. Partitions represent an explicit concession, like admitting that we can't be trusted to not look.

2. The second reason as actually sanitation. I'm a physicist, but I won't go into the complex particle mechanics and fluid dynamics of projectile urination that most men refer to as "splash." Let's just say that partitions would be casualties, and may contaminate subsequent users of the same station. It's bad enough in the stalls. Any man who urinates standing up in a clean stall essentially designates that stall as a de facto urinal until it can be completely cleaned again. Without partitions, any droplets fall harmlessly to the floor, and men don't give a crap about what we step in\on (unless it's crap itself).

See, we can be complex, but in entirely stupid circumstances.

[Davian93]

~reads above post~

That's why he's a doctor and I barely got a history degree....I mean look at the reasoning abilities displayed there.

~tips hat to Dr. Yuri~

[Brita]

Haha! Yes very impressive. I think you should defend a thesis on those hypothesis Dr. Yuri ;)

[Crispin's Crispian]

1. In the washroom, all men (gay or not) have some latent homophobia. It's the reason there are such complex rules for urinal use. But all of this fear is unspoken and unacknowledged, and the reason for that is because (in mens' minds) to admit such fear is to diminish one's own masculinity. Partitions represent an explicit concession, like admitting that we can't be trusted to not look.

2. The second reason as actually sanitation. I'm a physicist, but I won't go into the complex particle mechanics and fluid dynamics of projectile urination that most men refer to as "splash." Let's just say that partitions would be casualties, and may contaminate subsequent users of the same station. It's bad enough in the stalls. Any man who urinates standing up in a clean stall essentially designates that stall as a de facto urinal until it can be completely cleaned again. Without partitions, any droplets fall harmlessly to the floor, and men don't give a crap about what we step in\on (unless it's crap itself).


Actually, I do give a crap about that. It pisses me off...I mean...it makes me angry how much piss is all over the floor in front of the urinal. I'm convinced it's not just splash, but some dumbass isn't watching what he's doing.

As for partitions--we have them in our restroom at work. They do help with stadium fright, since the urinals are only about six inches apart. I haven't looked to see if they are damaged.

[Yuri33]

Heh, one thesis is enough.

Crispian, I hadn't thought about stage freight. That's another good reason.

[irerancincpkc]

Actually, I do give a crap about that. It pisses me off...I mean...it makes me angry how much piss is all over the floor in front of the urinal. I'm convinced it's not just splash, but some dumbass isn't watching what he's doing.
Yes, I will not use a restroom if I go in and there is urine all over the floor. Gives me the bad willies...

[Birgitte]

The floor under the urinal in the restaurant where I work is nasty. I can mop all I want, the tile is not going back to its original color. It's normally brown, but under the urinal its yellowish-gray. Nasty.

[Gilshalos Sedai]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Birgitte]

And it gets mopped every night before we close. And it's still like that! How does that happen?!

[Terez]

We need to train boys to pee sitting on the toilet like civilized human beings.

[Sei'taer]

We have a consultant who comes and does...um...something for the city. He basically sits in a room and has people come up with ideas, writes them down and then tells everyone they did a good job and heads out with a fat paycheck. He got really pissed at me one day because he asked me where I was going to be in five years and I told him I was going to get a job scamming money off the government and calling it consulting...just like he does.

Anyway, this guy has a huge fat gut and he's a little older and we always laugh because if he's here we can tell when we hit the bathroom, there's piss on the floor in front of the urinal, if he's not, it's dry and fresh and clean, just like it should be.

[Sarevok]

Hmm... I've rarely seen piss in front of a urinal, over here... maybe ppl's aim is better in Europe? Also, I can tell you that partitions are the norm, here.

[Sei'taer]

you have little weenies and have to get in tight, we also have wide stances over here....specially Davian.

[ShadowbaneX]

Bad plumming. I recommend sand blasting, if not renovating.

[caladanbrood]

And after tonight, another argument for, as it were, open-plan toilet facilities, was the vast amount of drug-dealing going on in the men's cubicles when I needed to piss:p

[Mort]

We need to train boys to pee sitting on the toilet like civilized human beings.

Are you offering to teach? :D

I already know how though. I'm a good boy ;)

[Davian93]

we also have wide stances over here....specially Davian.

What the hell, Man!