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Terez
07-23-2009, 01:05 PM
Did anyone else watch it? I missed the first 20 minutes or so, but the following 40 minutes were fairly educational. Most of his questions were the leading type, from the opposition, and there was only one he didn't answer (saying he needed to look into the claim).

Also, his use of the red pill/blue pill metaphor was cute...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/23/politics/main5182101.shtml

Davian93
07-23-2009, 01:25 PM
I thought he was very weak...not a good performance for the big man.

Also, why the hell did he mention that whole "black professor wrongly arrested" thing?

1. It has nothing to do with the topic of Health Care.

2. Its a local and state issue, he shouldn't throw his two cents in on it without knowing the whole story (which, he admitted, he didn't).

Gilshalos Sedai
07-23-2009, 01:26 PM
For the same reason they brought up that whole baseball bullshit at one of the other press conferences.


Dav: performance?

Davian93
07-23-2009, 01:30 PM
Dav: performance?

Well honestly think about the real purpose of a press conference. He could very easily put out a written statement or release on why he wants the Health Care to go forward. A press conference is a choreographed performance to build support for it...at least in this case. I don't think he did all that great a job...especially considering what a good speaker he usually is.

Gilshalos Sedai
07-23-2009, 01:32 PM
Yeah, but I'd only use the word "performance" in reference to Regan. ;)

Davian93
07-23-2009, 01:34 PM
Yeah, but I'd only use the word "performance" in reference to Regan. ;)

Ronald Reagan? The Actor?!?

Gilshalos Sedai
07-23-2009, 01:41 PM
Yeah, you know, gotta be an actor so you can look good in front of the camera.

JSUCamel
07-23-2009, 01:42 PM
First of all, a reporter brought up the Dr. Gates thing, not Obama, so there's that. Unless you're one of those who believes the whole thing is scripted.

I was just talking to Tam about this.

If Obama is right about these things (and he certainly believes he is), then we could be on the way out of this shithole we're in. But if we're wrong, we could be very, very screwed.

In some ways, I'm inclined to believe that he's no different from the previous Presidents, but I'm trying really, really hard to give him the benefit of the doubt and withhold judgment until we see some results (whether positive or negative). And before anyone accuses me of being partisan for trying to give him benefit of the doubt, I did the same for Bush during his first term.

Terez
07-23-2009, 01:43 PM
He put it in there because people want to know his opinion on it, not only because of his race and position, but because he went to Harvard and knows the guy. It was a relatively high-publicity press conference, so it was a good opportunity to put his opinion out there, and he only spent about 2 minutes on it.

Davian93
07-23-2009, 01:46 PM
He put it in there because people want to know his opinion on it, not only because of his race and position, but because he went to Harvard and knows the guy. It was a relatively high-publicity press conference, so it was a good opportunity to put his opinion out there, and he only spent about 2 minutes on it.

and

First of all, a reporter brought up the Dr. Gates thing, not Obama, so there's that. Unless you're one of those who believes the whole thing is scripted.

And the smart response would be "We're here to talk about Health Care". Look at the stupid controversy he caused in the morning press as a result. No one's talking about the health care but they are talking about his comments...enough so that the White House Press Office had to issue a clarification to his remarks. Not a good move on his part to answer the question. That's my point. Answer that question at another time when you're not trying to monumentally change our Nation's health care system.

Terez
07-23-2009, 01:50 PM
Meh, the press will be idiots either way. If we're not capable of separating 58 minutes of health care from 2 minutes of commentary on a current event, then we've got a problem, don't you think?

Gilshalos Sedai
07-23-2009, 01:51 PM
We have a problem.

Davian93
07-23-2009, 01:51 PM
Meh, the press will be idiots either way. If we're not capable of separating 58 minutes of health care from 2 minutes of commentary on a current event, then we've got a problem, don't you think?

Of course we've got a problem and someone who is as saavy at manipulating the press as Obama has been should have recognized it and declined to answer.

Sei'taer
07-23-2009, 01:52 PM
Tbh, this is the first press conference I've watched, but if that was good I can't believe the guy gets all these kudos for being a great speaker. As far as I could tell, and it was hard to tell from his rambling answers, he only answered one question and that was the one about cspan and he pretty much blew off most of that one.

I have to agree with Davian, it was weak. The NYtimes is even talking about how bad it was.

Zanguini
07-23-2009, 01:58 PM
Yeah, you know, gotta be an actor so you can look good in front of the camera.


It is 2009 in 2015 it will be what it was in Back to the Future


and...



I want my flying car dammit!!

Davian93
07-23-2009, 02:00 PM
It is 2009 in 2015 it will be what it was in Back to the Future


and...



I want my flying car dammit!!

I want a hoverboard.

JSUCamel
07-23-2009, 02:24 PM
I don't have any answers. All I know is that the health care system is FUBAR.

A few weeks ago, I went to see fireworks down at Navy Pier in Chicago. As soon as the fireworks were over, my friend and I stood up and headed over to the train. I got a sharp pain in my side, which quickly turned into a cramp. After maybe 50 meters, I started blacking out from the pain. I sat down, waited for the feeling to pass. Normally, I'd just go home, take some Tylenol, and deal with it.

I stood up and promptly threw up.

I never throw up.

I tried to walk again, and my vision started blacking out again and I was nauseous. My friend called an EMT team over, and they asked me a few questions and then suggested I go to the ER. Given my medical history and the severity of the pain, I agreed.

At the ER, I saw a doctor, who promptly gave me some pain medication. When the pain subsided a bit, I was able to describe the symptoms in more detail. She gave me a quick physical checkup and said "It's probably a kidney stone. Normally, I'd send you home with some pain meds and let you sleep it off, but your pain is so severe and given your history, I want to get a CT scan to make sure everything's okay."

I passed out from the pain + pain med combo. Woke up in Radiology, had a CT scan, passed out again, woke up in the ER room.

I had not one but three stones.

After three hours in the ER, the stones were passed and I was sent on my merry way home, doped up on hydrocodone. On my way out, I asked the doctor "Is this gonna count as an emergency? Last time I went to the ER, my insurance said it wasn't an emergency and wouldn't cover it..." She smiled at me and said "Yes, this is an emergency. Don't worry about it."

Two weeks later, I received a statement from my insurance company. They did indeed cover it, and the total cost to me was $50. I checked to see how much they had been billed.

ER fee: $2200
Pharmacy: $900
Lab tests: $400
Radiology: $4500
Total: $8000

If I had not had health insurance, a three hour ER visit would have cost me 1/5 of my yearly income. That's almost a year worth of rent. It's more than my car's worth.

Eight thousand dollars for three hours of the (admittedly gorgeous) nurse telling me everything's going to be okay, a CT scan, and a couple pills of pain medicine.

Is that reasonable? At all?

Absolutely not.

I don't have any answers. But something needs to change.

Now.

Zanguini
07-23-2009, 02:33 PM
Eight thousand dollars for three hours of the (admittedly gorgeous) nurse telling me everything's going to be okay, a CT scan, and a couple pills of pain medicine.



Ah... thats because they charged you for the Champagne Room.
1000 for ER and Scan charges
7000 for the Champagne Room.

Gilshalos Sedai
07-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Cost us about $14000-20000 for Bryan's emergency appendectomy right after we were married. I was on an 80/20 plan then. Our portion, after the $80 co-pay? $2000.

I agree the system's screwed up. I just don't think this congress is going to get it fixed. There won't be enough checks on the Dems to stop any stupidity. (I'd say the same about any party that has a majority.)

Zanguini
07-23-2009, 02:40 PM
Cost us about $14000-20000 for Bryan's emergency appendectomy right after we were married. I was on an 80/20 plan then. Our portion, after the $80 co-pay? $2000.

I agree the system's screwed up. I just don't think this congress is going to get it fixed. There won't be enough checks on the Dems to stop any stupidity. (I'd say the same about any party that has a majority.)


Ah but a party that doesnt have a majority or a large majority cant get anything done because the other party hates them more than they want to get things done.

Gilshalos Sedai
07-23-2009, 02:42 PM
Yeah, I know. It's not Congress, it's high school. Or perhaps, street gangs.

Zanguini
07-23-2009, 02:45 PM
The Jets and the Sharks. Thier differences wont be solved until McCain falls in love with Pelosi.

Davian93
07-23-2009, 02:47 PM
I completely agree with Camel's statement that Healthcare is FUBAR. As I am disabled myself and my fiancee has her own kidney issues, we are exposed to the healthcare system probably about 1000 times more than the average American.

We were in PA on vacation last month and she had an attack which required an ER visit. Because the VA is her primary care provider and she doesnt have outside insurance since she doesnt have a job and we're not married, the ER first treated us like complete crap as soon as they heard "no insurance" and then accused her of being a drug addict in so many words. Because we didn't have her medical records with us on the trip and we were at a non-VA hospital, they tried to tell us all she had was a normal UTI...this despite bloody urine and evidence of a kidney (not UI) infection. She was in MASSIVE pain as kidney infections of that type are very very painful. So they gave her 2 vicoden (for which we were charged $50 somehow) and an antibiotic prescription (that didn't work BTW) and sent us on our way despite the all the symptoms. All because we were at a civilian hospital and didn't have insurance. They were nice enough to give us a $2,000 bill though...despite not treating her and getting her sicker---->. Also, instead of giving her the antibiotic she KNEW would work, they gave her another one that she had previously had and knew didn't work/got her sicker. So, with no other options at 11pm, she took the antibiotic hoping maybe it would work, got sicker by morning and we had to make 50 phonecalls to a VA on a Sunday to get a correct prescription sent to a local pharmacy. Then we had to come all the way back to VT that monday and she went through a ton of labwork (with another ER visit to a VA hospital) to make sure she wasn't getting any sicker.

It was fvcking ridiculous. The only silver lining is that the new antibiotic (the ones we KNEW worked) did kick down the infection and she didn't have to pay the ER bill as the VA will pick it up as it was an emergency. Still, its not fun.

Private healthcare is a freaking joke.

Sei'taer
07-23-2009, 02:48 PM
The Jets and the Sharks. Thier differences wont be solved until McCain falls in love with Pelosi.

EEEWWWWW...Gaaaaaaahhhhhrrrrosssssssssss!

Zanguini
07-23-2009, 02:54 PM
well i could have said ted kennedy fall in love with palin but i thought the other was slightly less gross

Davian93
07-23-2009, 02:56 PM
well i could have said ted kennedy fall in love with palin but i thought the other was slightly less gross

EWWWWWW...Poor Ted, Dont do that to him. Well, unless he takes her to Chappaquidick for their first date...that would be okay.

Sei'taer
07-23-2009, 04:14 PM
http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/palin-with-bear.jpg

http://t2030.mtc.ca.gov/images/ta1106/NancyPelosi-Head.jpg


hmmmm maybe if neither talked. Naw, who'm I kidding. On pure Ted Kennedy scale bangability I'm going with Palin

Zanguini
07-23-2009, 04:15 PM
http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/palin-with-bear.jpg



Bears are Godless Killing Machines.
Palins are Godfull Killing Machines

Sinistrum
07-23-2009, 04:25 PM
I think just about everyone agrees that our health care system is FUBAR. I certainly was not happy about the $1700 (which I'm still paying on) I paid last year out of pocket for two stitches and a tetnis shot. The issue for me is whether government involvement is going to make it any better.

JSUCamel
07-23-2009, 04:46 PM
I honestly don't think it can get much worse. And like Obama said in his little speech thing, is it better to stick with a system we know is FUBAR, or try something different that may wind up working out better?

Sei'taer
07-23-2009, 05:22 PM
I honestly don't think it can get much worse. And like Obama said in his little speech thing, is it better to stick with a system we know is FUBAR, or try something different that may wind up working out better?

red pill/blue pill (since it's so cute and all).

Ivhon
07-23-2009, 05:23 PM
Hmm....lessee. Im required by school to have insurance.

I pay several grand a year for it.

It turned me down for a physical.


Say what you want about government waste, it CANNOT be worse than the thievery that the insurance companies practice - record profits come from increased revenue (premiums go up) and decreased expenses (claims are rejected).

Fuck that.

irerancincpkc
07-23-2009, 05:46 PM
I thought it went well, if not great, and I didn't think it was cute...

Sinistrum
07-23-2009, 10:40 PM
Say what you want about government waste, it CANNOT be worse than the thievery that the insurance companies practice

It can always get worse, especially with power tripping government bureacrats and bean counters running the show.

Dragon Thief
07-23-2009, 11:04 PM
There's three huge problems with the current system, in my mind. The first is insurance companies denying folks for as much as they can get away with. The second is the costs of covering t heir asses due to people scamming and suing the faces off of doctors, hospitals, etc. The third is our fucked up patent system, and how the pharmaceutical companies sue the faces (and asses) off anyone who tries to innovate medicine and lobbies against anything that tries to use procedures that dont need continuous medicines.

I think a centralized system has a chance at getting rid of the insurance problem, and since (from what I remember) the government cannot patent or copyright government materials, that would help with patent trolls a little.

I doubt scammers would stop scamming just because it became the government, as opposed to an insurance company or hospital. And i'm unsure how lawsuits would be affected, if at all.

GonzoTheGreat
07-24-2009, 04:49 AM
Bears are Godless Killing Machines.
Palins are Godfull Killing MachinesI have said it before: at least some bears are Godful* Killing Machines.

Just read the Bible. It does mention bears send by God to do some righteous killing, it does not mention Palin at all, let alone on such a mission.

I really wish the believers would at least get their own 'facts' straight. You won't always have a helpful atheist around to set you right.

* I'll admit that I didn't use this particular word.

Crispin's Crispian
07-24-2009, 09:45 AM
I think a centralized system has a chance at getting rid of the insurance problem, and since (from what I remember) the government cannot patent or copyright government materials, that would help with patent trolls a little.

I don't think centralized health care will do anything to stop patent trolls or the Big Pharma lobby. The only thing it has a chance of doing is lowering the price of medicine because the gov't can negotiate from a position of strength. But then, the government gave away negotiation rights with Med D, so who knows?

I'm sure at least a few Congresspeople have yachts with drug logos on the side.

Ivhon
07-24-2009, 09:55 AM
I don't think centralized health care will do anything to stop patent trolls or the Big Pharma lobby. The only thing it has a chance of doing is lowering the price of medicine because the gov't can negotiate from a position of strength. But then, the government gave away negotiation rights with Med D, so who knows?

I'm sure at least a few* Congresspeople have yachts with drug logos on the side.

*read: all

Sei'taer
07-24-2009, 11:00 AM
*read: all

Go to congress, become a millionaire.

Anybody else bothered that the congresspeople who are asked about using the public healthcare, and the president too, dodge the question and seem to be in favor of keeping their private (yes, from what I can find it's private insurance and it's badfuckingass too) insurance for themselves and their families?

Gilshalos Sedai
07-24-2009, 11:04 AM
As long as I get to keep my husband's badfuckingass government insurance, too.... I don't care.


I'm kidding. There'll be loopholes in this crap big enough to pilot the Death Star through for the rich and very rich.

Sinistrum
07-24-2009, 11:24 AM
The first is insurance companies denying folks for as much as they can get away with.

Here's something I've been thinking about over the last couple of days. If an insurance company is doing this to you, you always have the option of suing them. There are plenty of attorney's out there willing to take these kind of cases on contigency fee basis and plenty of juror's with exactly the same attitude on insurance companies as most of us.

However, once you shift insurance coverage over to the government, then it becomes a matter of sovereign immunity. You can't sue them for denying coverage unless the government explicitly consents to be sued over it. Otherwise, it is just a public policy decision that you have absolutely no legal recourse over, even if it was a matter of you being denied for non-health care related purposes (such as cost cutting).

Davian93
07-24-2009, 11:30 AM
Here's something I've been thinking about over the last couple of days. If an insurance company is doing this to you, you always have the option of suing them. There are plenty of attorney's out there willing to take these kind of cases on contigency fee basis and plenty of juror's with exactly the same attitude on insurance companies as most of us.

And they'll keep appealing and appealing and appealing and you'll be dead before anything happens...NEXT.

JSUCamel
07-24-2009, 11:43 AM
And they'll keep appealing and appealing and appealing and you'll be dead before anything happens...NEXT.

I'd imagine it depends. For a lot of claims, they'd probably just settle. If something's going to cost them millions, they may fight it, but they won't fight something that's gonna cost them $10,000. It'd cost more than that just to get in a courtroom.

I'm in a situation right now with the insurance companies. They authorized a refill of meds last December, and I got a letter a few weeks ago from them saying "Oh, you know what? We didn't mean to authorize that. Please reimburse us for $1400 for the cost of the medicine."

...Yeah, right. If they wanna go to court over it, that's fine by me, but they won't, because they'd lose more than $1400.

Sinistrum
07-24-2009, 12:29 PM
For a lot of claims, they'd probably just settle.

And Camel gets the win. Sorry Davian, but the vast majority of cases (90%) settle before they even go to trial. This is true because it is generally less risky and generally less costly to settle than it is to go to trial. Furthermore, high powered attorney's to pursue appeals cost money. Insurance companies can't hire someone to take their defense on a contigency fee basis like a plaintiff because if they win, they don't get anything except an obligation not to pay the insured. The more they fight off a suit, the higher their meter goes on legal fees, and they have no chance of recouping any of it from the opposing party. Those are costs they have to eat no matter what so they have an interest in minimizing them.

And its not just the smaller claims that tend to settle. My boss currently has a property insurance suit that is probably going to end up settling for well into eight figures. The reason that number is going to be so high is because the potential trial award from a jury could be into nine figures and we've got them by the short hairs in terms of evidence of clear wrong doing. The statute we are basing our suit on applies to all insurance, health insurance included. So while this example does deal with a different type of insurance, its still relevant to health insurance claims because it illustrates that calculus involved in defending all suits by insured against insurers.

Putting the government in charge of health insurance removes this entirely as a possible remedy for bad faith insurance practices. It doesn't get rid of the bad faith though.

Terez
07-24-2009, 12:45 PM
I thought conservative lawyers were anti-sue types?

I get the bit about suits and such, but Obama says he intends to guarantee coverage (including preventative coverage), so that would take away a lot of the reasons to sue in the first place. Also, the multi-digit suits are a lot of the reason why premiums keep skyrocketing. We would still have the option to sue for malpractice, seeing as how the doctors will be outside of the government part of the deal.

Crispin's Crispian
07-24-2009, 01:04 PM
For Camel's case, I doubt they'll even begin legal proceedings. They don't need to, because they can turn the $1,400 over to collections, who will do everything they can to get the money (because they'll get 20%). As a result, they ruin your credit for a long time, and it doesn't cost them a damn thing.

It's then up to Camel (in this instance) to start the legal process to defend himself. That might be where settlement comes in, but at this point the insurance company is ahead of the game.

Furthermore, a lot of the crap that insurance companies do is perfectly legal and hard to bring to court. It's probably a result of the gigantic lobbying effort they spend billions on.

Davian93
07-24-2009, 01:07 PM
Yup and then you'll have a $1400 Judgment on your credit and good luck getting a loan for anything..or getting a Federal job for that matter (including contracting positions).

I see it all the time with people. Medical collectors are vampires.

Ivhon
07-24-2009, 01:09 PM
For Camel's case, I doubt they'll even begin legal proceedings. They don't need to, because they can turn the $1,400 over to collections, who will do everything they can to get the money (because they'll get 20%). As a result, they ruin your credit for a long time, and it doesn't cost them a damn thing.

It's then up to Camel (in this instance) to start the legal process to defend himself. That might be where settlement comes in, but at this point the insurance company is ahead of the game.

Furthermore, a lot of the crap that insurance companies do is perfectly legal and hard to bring to court. It's probably a result of the gigantic lobbying effort they spend billions on.

Not only that, but it is going to be on Camel to put the time effort and tedium in to keep on top of this to make sure that his credit isn't ruined, etc.

Thats on top of the time and effort needed to find a lawyer that will take this pro bono - otherwise, it will cost more than $1400 for Camel to have representation.

The cards are completely stacked against the little guy every way you look at it. The insurance companies dont have much to worry about, and of course the lawyers win no matter what.

Sinistrum
07-24-2009, 01:44 PM
I get the bit about suits and such, but Obama says he intends to guarantee coverage (including preventative coverage), so that would take away a lot of the reasons to sue in the first place.

What someone intends to do and what someone actually does are two different things. Furthermore, is he going to guarantee coverage for all medical procedures or just some? If some, how is he deciding which ones are guaranteed and which ones aren't? How does someone go about challenging those decisions with a legitimate dispute if they are made by the government?

Also, the multi-digit suits are a lot of the reason why premiums keep skyrocketing. We would still have the option to sue for malpractice, seeing as how the doctors will be outside of the government part of the deal.

Yes but suing the doctor doesn't solve the issue of insurance bad faith. If the doctor doesn't screw up, but government health insurance does, suing the doctor doesn't do any good. Furthermore, in the grand scheme of things, doctors are infinitely more important to the system than the health insurance provider. In the spirit of being a conversative lawyer, I'd want to limit their liability and the damages available against them as much as possible to ensure the continued existence of their profession.

Thats on top of the time and effort needed to find a lawyer that will take this pro bono - otherwise, it will cost more than $1400 for Camel to have representation.

That's just not true. That is why I brought up the issue of contigency fees. That pretty much eliminates any legal costs Camel has unless he actually wins the case.

JSUCamel
07-24-2009, 01:50 PM
That's just not true. That is why I brought up the issue of contigency fees. That pretty much eliminates any legal costs Camel has unless he actually wins the case.

Yep. I've already contacted an attorney about it. I've written a letter back to the insurance company explaining my position and that I have no intention of paying it since they authorized it in the first place (I should have been covered). If they try to collect, my attorney will represent me on a contingency fee basis. It's outright ridiculous.

Gilshalos Sedai
07-24-2009, 01:59 PM
Y'all are forgetting something. Obama ain't in control of this. All he can do is ask something be put in. He has no control over whether other crap is added that screws the bill up and makes it the worst idea since Prohibition. All he can hope for is that whatever lands on his desk at the end is close enough.

Davian93
07-24-2009, 02:00 PM
Y'all are forgetting something. Obama ain't in control of this. All he can do is ask something be put in. He has no control over whether other crap is added that screws the bill up and makes it the worst idea since Prohibition. All he can hope for is that whatever lands on his desk at the end is close enough.

Perhaps the Senate should be disbanded permanently...Obama could give the regional governors direct control of their systems...fear, fear of this battle station will keep them inline.

Zanguini
07-24-2009, 02:01 PM
I really wish the believers would at least get their own 'facts' straight. You won't always have a helpful atheist around to set you right.

Well I'm a Deist so...

Bears ARE Godless killing machines (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/24372/october-25-2005/threatdown---anti-bacterial-soap)

Terez
07-24-2009, 02:01 PM
What someone intends to do and what someone actually does are two different things. Furthermore, is he going to guarantee coverage for all medical procedures or just some? If some, how is he deciding which ones are guaranteed and which ones aren't? How does someone go about challenging those decisions with a legitimate dispute if they are made by the government?
From what I understand, there's a panel of medical professionals, some apparently respectable folks from the better known academia/medical center complexes, that will be advising Congress on these issues, and the disputes between this panel and Congress will be public. This sounds a great deal more attractive to me than the current quagmire. If there are major issues with what is covered and what is not, I'd say Washington is more susceptible to public pressure than the insurance companies currently are.

Gilshalos Sedai
07-24-2009, 02:06 PM
Perhaps the Senate should be disbanded permanently...Obama could give the regional governors direct control of their systems...fear, fear of this battle station will keep them inline.

I had to give you rep for that, Dav. You almost got me trouble at work, I laughed so hard.

Zanguini
07-24-2009, 02:28 PM
Perhaps the Senate should be disbanded permanently...Obama could give the regional governors direct control of their systems...fear, fear of this battle station will keep them inline.

Do not be so proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of partisanship.

Gilshalos Sedai
07-24-2009, 02:32 PM
Y'all are killing me.

Davian93
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
Do not be so proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of partisanship.

Don't try to frighten us with your bureaucratic ways...your sad devotion to that ancient political process hasnt helped you conjure up support for this bill nor has it given you the clairvoyance to find the Republican's hidden...

~starts choking~

Ivhon
07-24-2009, 02:43 PM
Don't try to frighten us with your bureaucratic ways...your sad devotion to that ancient political process hasnt helped you conjure up support for this bill nor has it given you the clairvoyance to find the Republican's hidden...

~starts choking~

I find your lack of Democratic votes disturbing....

Davian93
07-24-2009, 02:45 PM
I find your lack of Democratic votes disturbing....

ROFL...Good one.

Zanguini
07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
I find your lack of Democratic votes disturbing....

Enough of this! Lord Cheney release him.

Ivhon
07-24-2009, 02:56 PM
Enough of this! Lord Cheney release him.

As you wi.... Wait. Are you going to pardon Scooter Libby or no?

Zanguini
07-24-2009, 03:19 PM
As you wi.... Wait. Are you going to pardon Scooter Libby or no?

This bickering is pointless. Lord Cheney will provide us with the location of the stolen healthcare plan by the time this station is operational. We will then crush the Dems with one swift stroke.

Birgitte
07-24-2009, 03:23 PM
~bursts out laughing~ I love you guys....

Zanguini
07-24-2009, 03:24 PM
You know i think its quite possible to go through the entire movie as a political commentary

Davian93
07-24-2009, 03:26 PM
You know i think its quite possible to go through the entire movie as a political commentary

I dont even think it'd be that difficult.

Zanguini
07-24-2009, 03:27 PM
Ive not had any trouble

Hmmm...

A not so long ago, on a hill far, far, away...

It is a period of health care reform. Dem pundits, striking with hidden health care reform, have won their first victory against the evil Republican Empire.

During the debate, Rebel lobbyists managed to steal secret plans to the Republican's ultimate weapon, the Death Star, an armored healthcare reform bill with enough power to destroy an entire planet.

Pursued by the Republican's sinister Congressmen, Princess Pelosi races to the hill, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the country...

JSUCamel
07-24-2009, 03:34 PM
This not the pork you're looking for...