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bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 12:31 PM
Someone at Dragonmount posted the chapter titles last night. Encased in spoiler tags for your enjoyment.

BTW, since I haven't been on this board during a book release, I'm not sure what the protocol is for posting things like this. If you'd rather not have this spoiler info, let me know and I can delete the post or one of the mods can take care of it. :)


All the Chapter Titles

Prologue: What The Storm Means
Chapter 1: Tears from Steel
Chapter 2: The Nature of Pain
Chapter 3: The Ways of Honor
Chapter 4: Nightfall
Chapter 5: A Tale of Blood
Chapter 6: When Iron Melts
Chapter 7: The Plan of Arad Doman
Chapter 8: Clean Shirts
Chapter 9: Leaving Malden
Chapter 10: The Last of the Tabac
Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin*
Chapter 12: Unexpected Encounters
Chapter 13: An Offer and a Departure
Chapter 14: A Box Opens
Chapter 15: A Place to Begin
Chapter 16: In the White Tower
Chapter 17: Questions of Control
Chapter 18: A Message in Haste
Chapter 19: Gambits
Chapter 20: On a Broken Road
Chapter 21: Embers and Ash
Chapter 22: The Last That Could Be Done
Chapter 23: A Warp in the Air
Chapter 24: A New Commitment
Chapter 25: In Darkness
Chapter 26: A Crack in the Stone
Chapter 27: The Tipsy Gelding
Chapter 28: Night in Hinderstap*
Chapter 29: Into Bandar Eban
Chapter 30: Old Advice
Chapter 31: A Promise to Lews Therin
Chapter 32: Rivers of Shadow
Chapter 33: A Conversation with the Dragon
Chapter 34: Legends
Chapter 35: A Halo of Blackness
Chapter 36: The Death of Tuon
Chapter 37: A Force of Light
Chapter 38: News in Tel'aran'rhiod
Chapter 39: A Visit from Verin Sedai
Chapter 40: The Tower Shakes
Chapter 41: A Fount of Power
Chapter 42: Before the Stone of Tear
Chapter 43: Sealed to the Flame
Chapter 44: Sense Unknown*
Chapter 45: The Tower Stands
Chapter 46: To Be Forged Again
Chapter 47: The One He Lost
Chapter 48: Reading the Commentary
Chapter 49: Just Another Man
Chapter 50: Veins of Gold
Epilogue: Bathed in Light

*indicates a possible spelling error by me. I only have the audio book and can't confirm spelling until I get a hardcopy on Oct. 27th.

Crispin's Crispian
10-20-2009, 12:57 PM
Well. One of them at least is a potentially HUGE spoiler for a plot twist no one saw coming.

So it's probably figurative. ;)

FelixPax
10-20-2009, 01:24 PM
Well. One of them at least is a potentially HUGE spoiler for a plot twist no one saw coming.

So it's probably figurative. ;)


Chapter 36 - you mean figuratively Crispin? I think so, too.

Chapter 39 - I'm really looking forward to this chapter. :D

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 01:28 PM
47... If my guess is correct this is the moment I've been waiting for since tFoH.

Mort
10-20-2009, 01:28 PM
Chapter 5: Some fighting perhaps? :)

Chapter 11: Who?

Chapter 26: Something is up in Tear?
Chapter 27: Sounds like an Inn

Chapter 31: Interesting, I wonder what that is.

Chapter 33: More LTT? Maybe we can settle what he is after this?

Chapter 36: Must be figuratively, or a plan to do just that.

Chapter 39: So we know that one will be back at least...
Chapter 40: Oh? :)
Chapter 45: Remember the battle cry from when the Stone were invaded by Trollocs? Oh yeah. :D

Chapter 47: A new hand? :)

I'm definetly looking forward to this, boo-ya!

SauceyBlueConfetti
10-20-2009, 01:29 PM
Couldn't help it, I read them

AND I GOT CHILLS!

yay
yay
yay
yay

ONE MORE WEEK!!!

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Chapter 26: Something is up in Tear?

I was thinking Rand was the stone

Chapter 47: A new hand? :)

I was thinking someone returns.

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 01:39 PM
47... If my guess is correct this is the moment I've been waiting for since tFoH.

Hmmm...actually, there are a couple of things this could mean. I suspect we won't see the big one until ToM.

I am SO looking forward to Chapter 39. Now maybe we can put some loony theories to rest and create a whole lot more. :D

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 01:49 PM
Chapter 11: Who?

This guy, maybe?

this guy (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Aldrin_Caldevwin)

I just copied the original post from DM, and the guy who posted it had the audio book, not the printed one.

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 01:56 PM
Hmmm...actually, there are a couple of things this could mean. I suspect we won't see the big one until ToM.

Read the last four chapter titles and tell me something big isn't going on with rand. Especially 47, 49, and 50. Maybe I'm just hopeful but something is going on. Something BIG!!!

FelixPax
10-20-2009, 01:57 PM
I am SO looking forward to Chapter 39. Now maybe we can put some loony theories to rest and create a whole lot more. :D

I doubt put to rest...you know there is one ta'veren the mystery person (Chapter 39 title) hasn't visited yet?


What about Chapter 29? Demira did give a few clues about something unique there.

Sodas
10-20-2009, 02:05 PM
Some interesting chapter names.

I find the most interesting are the one's involving plays on metal or metal working :

Chapter 1: Tears from Steel
Chapter 6: When Iron melts
Chapter 46: To be Forged again
Chapter 50: Veins of Gold

Hmm. Particularly when chapter 1 refers really to Rand/LTT. Also, there is a chunk of things in the middle of the book that seem to relate to LTT :

Chapter 31: A Promise to Lews Therin
Chapter 33: A Conversation with the Dragon

And a reference smack dab between then to

Chapter 32: Rivers of Shadow

Which seems like Thakan'dar.

Hmmmm indeed!




CC:
Chapter 36 ... Yah. I'd vote for figurative as well. But it's not a prophecy, so don't go attacking any strawmen yet!

Blackwind :
Ch. 47 ... Maybe! But why no other reference to TOG?



Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin*
Adrin? Closest name that I know is Adria. The contortionist in Luca's circus.

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 02:22 PM
Blackwind :
Ch. 47 ... Maybe! But why no other reference to TOG?

I'm not sure. But I don't see any references to the ToG anywhere so it either happens early (these sound like mat chapters, especially the last 2)

Chapter 24: A New Commitment
Chapter 25: In Darkness
Chapter 26: A Crack in the Stone
Chapter 27: The Tipsy Gelding
Chapter 28: Night in Hinderstap*

Or it happens in the next book. It may just be that I desperately want it to happen in this book so I'm misinterpreting.

Chapter 50: Veins of Gold

sounds like Rand's love to me

Anaiya Sedai
10-20-2009, 02:22 PM
~squeks with excitement~

I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait! :D

Sodas
10-20-2009, 02:35 PM
I want Moi back as well...

but then again it could be Tuon, or Ilyena if it refers to LTT.

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 02:45 PM
Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin*
Adrin? Closest name that I know is Adria. The contortionist in Luca's circus.

I think it's probably supposed to be Aldrin Caldevwin (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Aldrin_Caldevwin). That seems to make the most sense, although we haven't seen him since TGH. If it is him, and (assuming he's been doing the same thing since TGH), then his death might hold some crucial info for Rand.

Chapter 8: Byrne and Siuan maybe?

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 02:53 PM
Read the last four chapter titles and tell me something big isn't going on with rand. Especially 47, 49, and 50. Maybe I'm just hopeful but something is going on. Something BIG!!!

I meant I don't think the big event at the end of the book will be someone returning. But, yeah, I think the ending will be HUGE!

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 02:57 PM
I meant I don't think the big event at the end of the book will be someone returning.

I don't see anything else that could have the sort of impact on Rand that the titles suggest. ~shrug~

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 03:11 PM
I don't see anything else that could have the sort of impact on Rand that the titles suggest. ~shrug~

Ok, then who do you think it might be? I think that the info we have about most of the chapters being about Rand and Eg means that there won't be enough PoV from Mat to have rescued Moiraine. That's a pretty major plot line to not have at least a third of a book devoted to it.

What about Tam maybe? Or, the 3 taver'en finally reuniting? OOH, I know! A trip to Camelyn to have a ménage à quatre! (OK, that last one was tongue in cheek. :D)

Terez
10-20-2009, 04:41 PM
All the Chapter Titles

Prologue: What The Storm Means
Chapter 1: Tears from Steel
Chapter 2: The Nature of Pain We already know what these mean.
P - Some Borderlanders pick up Nynaeve's weather sense - or rather, it's gotten so strong now that anyone can feel it coming.
1 - This is about Rand's hardening theme - his self-flagellation and Cadsuane's laughter and tears. And Lews Therin, of course.
2 - This is about Egwene's conquering of pain in the Aiel way, and of course, also about what sort of pain can be dealt with and what sort can't (to the point of being not just willing but happy to suffer the first to avoid the second).

Chapter 3: The Ways of Honor Honor is an Aiel thing more than anything else, so I expect this to be a continuation of Egwene. I can see her confronting a lot of Aes Sedai, especially the Hunters - "Don't you have any honor?" lol...

Chapter 4: Nightfall This could be anything. However, considering the previous two chapters, I'm betting on the second Sitting of the rebel Hall since Egwene was captured.

Chapter 5: A Tale of Blood hmm....very hard to say...but probably Seanchan. Maybe Tuon, since Mat is a possibility for the next chapter.

Chapter 6: When Iron Melts Rand is steel; Perrin seems to work better with Iron. However, it could be a Mat chapter - an early chapter where he departs from the Band to take off for Ghenjei? Or at least we get something about plans? Like the other timelines, I expect it to pick up pretty much right where it left off in Knife of Dreams - Tuon just left, and they have to cross the Damonas. Or maybe the mountains get skipped.

Chapter 7: The Plan of Arad Doman Bashere, and the Aiel chiefs, or Graendal, or Aran'gar, or Ituralde. All four would kick so much ass.

Chapter 8: Clean Shirts I think Bowlwoman has nabbed the best reference to previous material on this one.

Chapter 9: Leaving Malden This is a duh, but at least we've got a timeline for when Perrin is going to come into it. Yay! I'm betting it will pick up pretty much right after the Faile incident in the prologue.

Chapter 10: The Last of the Tabac Two Rivers? Perrin and Faile Traveling there?

Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin* This is not a known character. But is there a connection to chapter 36? And maybe also chapter 5? But I doubt it, since the previous and next chapters hint at Perrin - perhaps it's a Whitecloak?

Chapter 12: Unexpected Encounters In Winter's Heart, chapter 16, 'An Unexpected Encounter', Mat met Farstrider. But this time I expect it to be Galad and Perrin - there will be all sorts of unexpected encounters in that meeting, despite them already being aware of each other via scouts. Lots of surprises!

Chapter 13: An Offer and a Departure Again, I'm thinking Perrin. 'The Price of a Departure' in The Shadow Rising was Faile's price (marriage) for leaving the Two Rivers (ostensibly to go to Caemlyn, but in reality going to fetch the people of Watch Hill to show up and save Perrin at the last minute). So maybe that is the only reason I'm thinking Perrin...and also my guesses on the previous chapters. It could very well be Mat, offering someone something and departing for Ghenjei.

Chapter 14: A Box Opens The mind can't help but jump to Rand's box, especially considering that Jason hinted at Rand's moment being mid-book. But later chapters seem to say that Rand's moment will be later. Maybe not.

Chapter 15: A Place to Begin I hope this is Egwene - beginning with the Hunters, and taking over the Tower.

Chapter 16: In the White Tower My guess is some rebels in the Tower. Perhaps it is Verin after all, though...

Chapter 17: Questions of Control hmm...my guess is still Egwene. And Elaida. Deathmatch!

Chapter 18: A Message in Haste Hmm, Summoned in Haste from Lord of Chaos is making me still think Egwene. But it shouldn't, cause that connection doesn't mean anything! But there is also Egwene's running person. Maybe that will be now? I have a feeling that a lot of these dreams she has of dire situations for herself are more separate than we have always seemed to assume. Gawyn?

Chapter 19: Gambits Gawyn?

Chapter 20: On a Broken Road Egwene's mountain path dream?

Chapter 21: Embers and Ash Still Egwene?

Chapter 22: The Last That Could Be Done Sounds Perrin-ish. Maybe because of What Must Be Done, and Perrin's general git-r-dun attitude.

Chapter 23: A Warp in the Air Something like the ripples?

Chapter 24: A New Commitment hmm....Morgase? The Whitecloaks? Ituralde? Tuon? Tylee? Mat? Elayne? (I hope not on the last one - go queen Moiraine!)

Chapter 25: In Darkness Could be anything. However, Rand's vision?

Chapter 26: A Crack in the Stone Rand, I think (heart of stone, love). Or Ituralde? Double reference maybe?

Chapter 27: The Tipsy Gelding This has got to be an inn.

Chapter 28: Night in Hinderstap* Ituralde?

Chapter 29: Into Bandar Eban This definitely seems to speak for Ituralde and/or Rand, and the confrontation with Aran'gar and/or Graendal.

Chapter 30: Old Advice I'm thinking the old advice is Cadsuane's? Or perhaps Moiraine's? But I have half a bet that Cadsuane will die in this book, around here, and teach Rand and the Asha'man something with her death. Perhaps she dies in the previous chapter.

Chapter 31: A Promise to Lews Therin We all know what that promise is. This goes along with Rand's 'moment' that Jason mentioned.

Chapter 32: Rivers of Shadow hmm.......perhaps the confrontation with Aran'gar and/or Graendal is here. But perhaps it's just a reference to the craziness in Rand's mind?

Chapter 33: A Conversation with the Dragon Yay! I doubt the issue of real/construct will be solved here, though. If anything, I expect the mystery to get sharper - there will be more 'obvious' clues for both sides (sort of like the incident where Lews Therin 'took over' in Knife of Dreams). IMO, the sharper the mystery becomes, the more it speaks to construct (because the construct idea is counterintuitive, so to sharpen the mystery is to draw attention to it, and draw the mind away from accepting the 'obvious'). There were hints in chapter 1 that the mystery will be further sharpened.

Chapter 34: Legends hmm.....Ghenjei? Cadsuane? Birgitte? I would hope the latter but I don't bet on it.

Chapter 35: A Halo of Blackness I would be thrilled if this was Rand, after meeting Birgitte, coming to terms with the fact that he is Lews Therin, reborn, but I don't expect it. It could be anything really - the Dark One's touch again.

Chapter 36: The Death of Tuon Tuon faking her death? She has done it before...but it's probably just her being officially crowned Empress - she will get a new name then.

Chapter 37: A Force of Light The Hunters!

Chapter 38: News in Tel'aran'rhiod Egwene, yay! The negotiations at the bridges and all.

Chapter 39: A Visit from Verin Sedai Looks like Verin went to the Tower after all. *sigh* Not that it isn't cool - just takes away a reason for Mat to go there later. Unless, of course, Verin stays there. :D

Chapter 40: The Tower Shakes hmm....this seems to be a direct reference to the Seanchan Attack dream. However, it could merely be something to do with Verin. Would be cool if it's just about the Black Ajah. Perhaps Egwene misinterpreted her dream after all? Not that the Seanchan attack isn't happening - we know it will, based on the plans - but one of the ravens might have been the Shadow, and then the Seanchan attack will come shortly thereafter (like, next book).

Chapter 41: A Fount of Power hmmmm....

Chapter 42: Before the Stone of Tear Time, or space? But I am really hoping that this goes along with Chapter 39, and that Verin actually went to get Kiruna. Seems unlikely, but I can't think of anything immediately important in the Stone beyond Kiruna, who could be instrumental with the Borderlanders. But then, it might be Alanna dying after all.

Chapter 43: Sealed to the Flame Yay! Black Ajah!

Chapter 44: Sense Unknown* hmm, who knows?

Chapter 45: The Tower Stands Yay! I really hope this is all Black Ajah - Egwene becoming Amyrlin action. Seems a bit quick for mixing all of that with the attack. @Mort - yes, that's what I thought of too, especially since it follows chapter 42.

Chapter 46: To Be Forged Again My first thought was Perrin, and his whole 'My trials are a hammer to forge me into a weapon along with the heat of my anger' thing. But it's probably the forging of the Tower again.

Chapter 47: The One He Lost Thom POV ftw.

Chapter 48: Reading the Commentary What?

Chapter 49: Just Another Man hmm.....reference to Rand, maybe, and Birgitte's 'just an archer' thing?

Chapter 50: Veins of Gold We know what this is - it's the sense Rand and his women get of each other through the bond.

Epilogue: Bathed in Light hmm........Fain? :D

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Terez, I agree with most of your analysis of whose POV's we'll get at each point. My difference is in the middle of the book, 24-28 or there abouts. I think these are likely Mat POV's. I definitely think 27 and 28 sound like Mat chapters.

Additionally, cool idea about 47. I thought it was referring to Rand losing Moiraine but Thom works just as well in this case. Have we ever had a Thom POV?

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 06:25 PM
Chapter 44: Sense Unknown* hmm, who knows?

Someone on another board posted that this could actually be "Scents Unknown" because the original poster was transcribing from the audio book. This might make a little more sense...or scents... :D

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Oh, and Terez, I think you've probably nailed most of them. I never thought of the Thom PoV for Chapter 47. Good catch.

Callandor
10-20-2009, 06:30 PM
If you're reading this, it contains spoilers, of some suggestive nature.

If you can't figure this out, seek help.

The chapters tend to go in sections, with some stand alone chapters devoted to single POVs. Of course, some chapters have multiple POVs even if they're very disparate (Ex: Mat showing up in chapter "Attending Elaida" in KoD).

But there seems to be more than a few chapters we can make reasonable guesses at where they are. Obviously, the Tower ones are fairly distinct (Tower being anyone from Elaida, Siuan, Egwene, BA hunters, etc -- dealing with the major plays around the Tower and schism). Chapters 43, 45, and 46 seem to all be Tower chapters -- makes it fairly likely I'd say that chapter 44 is also a Tower one.

Chapter 40 deals with the Tower. 41 is "A Fount of Power" -- since the previous chapter seems to be the kick off for the climax of the Tower plot of the book, I don't see it as a huge leap that 41 is a Tower chapter. So, 40 and 41 are Tower ones, with 42 pretty certainly being a non-Tower one.

But this is probably the best "section" we can do, and it's still lots of guess work.

Next best is probably chapters 29-33. 31 and 33 are obviously Rand chapters. Rand has made it clear his intent to get to Bandar Eban; likely this is also him (or someone with his group like Nynaeve or Cadsuane or Aviendha). We got a hopping pattern then: 29,31,33. Let's make it a nice block of Rand and co. chapters, with 30 and 32 being in that area. "Old Advice" is a pretty mystifying title for these type of guessing, but let's put it as Cadsuane since she so loves advice. 5 chapters is plenty of time for a POV switch.

Too many possibilities. Just take "Tower" as an example. How many damn Towers are there? White Tower, Black Tower, Tower of Ghenjei, and possibly more that are new developments (but those three are all pretty dang important). But if you go with the obvious use of the White Tower for all those references, you have 7 chapters that are Tower centered ones without much difficulty (the 3 with Tower in their names, Sealed to the Flame, Nature of Pain, To Be Forged Again, and the biggest argument I'd expect with "Questions of Control"). 7 Tower ones is a bit hefty. Two other chapters (News in Tel'aran'rhiod and a Fount of Power) could easily fit in there as Egwene and Tower chapters too, making 9.

Let's just say Tower in one of those names is NOT the White Tower. Chapters 40 and 41 I could see as Mat chapters in the Tower of Ghenjei, chapter 40 being The Tower Shakes (Finnland had some nice disturbances that might come close to shaking this go around). But "Fount of Power" that seems a bit more of a better fit with actual One Power -- maybe "The Tower Shakes" means The Black Tower conflict erupting.

Too many options to go off of chapter titles. Just pick a random book and try to do this too.

TPOD: 13. Floating Like Snow
14. Message from the M'Hael
15. Stronger than Written Law
16. Unexpected Absences
17. Out on the Ice
18. A Peculiar Calling
19. The Law
20. Into Andor
21. Answering the Summons
22. Gathering Clouds
23. Fog of War, Storm of Battle
24. A Time for Iron

Would you expect a chapter like "The Law" to be an Egwene chapter? A chapter when she solidifies her power in the Salidar camp, and her final one before the very end of the book? No. How about these:

25. An Unwelcome Return
26. The Extra Bit
27. The Bargain
28. Crimsonthorn
29. A Cup of Sleep
30. Beginnings
31. After

The Extra bit and Crimsonthorn -- two titles that are completely befuddling, and unable to be placed at all with just looking at them. Yet they're extreme developments in the arc of the novels, setting up the Caemlyn Black Ajah plot that ran 3 books and the headache of the Asha'man bonded Aes Sedai.

So: no real answers, just qualified hints. The strongest things I'd say are that we see Tuon's coronation; we visit a new inn; Rand talks craziness as per usual; we'll see Verin with the Borderlanders (ha! See what I did there? Wordplay...); and the Tower gets dealt with since we knew that already.

In other words: masturbating for a week isn't going to do much but give you sores, even if they're mental ones.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Terez
10-20-2009, 06:36 PM
Terez, I agree with most of your analysis of whose POV's we'll get at each point. My difference is in the middle of the book, 24-28 or there abouts. I think these are likely Mat POV's. I definitely think 27 and 28 sound like Mat chapters.
Yeah, I don't have any solid ideas on those chapters anyway.

Additionally, cool idea about 47. I thought it was referring to Rand losing Moiraine but Thom works just as well in this case. Have we ever had a Thom POV?
Yes, we have had a few small ones, but none since The Shadow Rising! None since the very chapter (17) where Moiraine saw him last, and guaranteed he would survive Tanchico!

dun dun dun.....

Sodas
10-20-2009, 06:37 PM
Lots of really good points there Callandor, particularly the last. :D

FelixPax
10-20-2009, 06:57 PM
So: no real answers, just qualified hints.

...

we'll see Verin with the Borderlanders (ha! See what I did there? Wordplay...)

In other words: masturbating for a week isn't going to do much but give you sores, even if they're mental ones.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Verin visits the Borderlanders? Chuckles...


Who else could Verin visit possibly in tGS?

#1 - White Tower
#2 - Elayne in Caemlyn...
#3 - Mat... because she's missed him...
#4 - Murandy...why to meet Fain for old times sake :p
#5 - Shayol Ghul ...to hold a chat with the D.O.
#6 - Ishamael...to fix that old scar on her forearm
#7 - Cyndane...to borrow a copy of Mirrors of the Wheel
#8 - Alvirian...
#9 - Moghedien...
#10 - Siuan...LOL!!!
#11 - Any of the Salidar Ajah Heads...she'd love the questions about the Dream ter'angreal given to Egwene.
#12 - Aelfinn...via the Twisted Red Doorway in Tear
#13 - Graendal (Not) ;)
#14 - Taim in the Black Tower
#15 - Demira....

FelixPax
10-20-2009, 07:17 PM
This guy, maybe?

this guy (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Aldrin_Caldevwin)

I just copied the original post from DM, and the guy who posted it had the audio book, not the printed one.


If that was the right spelling of the name? What if, the name was actually:

(A) - Aledrin, a Salidar White Sitter?
(B) - Aldin, the Amadician bookkeeper held gai'shain by the Shaido in Malden, with Perrin group now?


All these Chapters below seem related to Perrin group and/or Galad's group (12):
Chapter 9: Leaving Malden
Chapter 10: The Last of the Tabac
Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin*
Chapter 12: Unexpected Encounters

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 07:30 PM
If that was the right spelling of the name? What if, the name was actually:

(A) - Aledrin, a Salidar White Sitter?
(B) - Aldin, the Amadician bookkeeper held gai'shain by the Shaido in Malden, with Perrin group now?


All these Chapters below seem related to Perrin group and/or Galad's group (12):

This is why it sucks having so many characters with similar names. :)

Terez
10-20-2009, 07:33 PM
You know, the last chapter seemed evident to be about Rand's bond with his women, since that is the terminology they use to describe the love felt through the bond. But now that I think about it, it might actually point to a bond between Moiraine and Thom, which would likely have the same effect. We haven't really observed a love bond from pov yet, besides Rand's triple bond. That would make Ghenjei one of the two climaxes at the end, rather than Rand. I think chapter 46 will wrap up Egwene's plotline, and the rest will be Ghenjei. Callie pointed out that 49 could easily refer to Farstrider.

@Bowlwoman - at least it's not like irl, where lots of people have the same name. ;)

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 08:12 PM
@Bowlwoman - at least it's not like irl, where lots of people have the same name. ;)

Yeah, I know. I have 7 friends named Jennifer. :D

My bridesmaids at my wedding were my sister (not a Jennifer) and 3 Jennifers. But, I KNOW them. Trying to distinguish between 3 characters we've seen on screen maybe 1-2 times out of how many thousands of pages of material makes it difficult when the phonetics aren't more diverse.

And, you will note that we don't have any minor characters that have similar sounding names to the main characters, i.e. there's no Nynevah, no Eileen, and no Pierrene.

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 08:16 PM
I read something about chapter 50 on dragonmount. For those who don't want to hear it it's hidden. I don't really consider it a spoiler but it's for you to decide.

Several people mentioned that chapter 50 was their favorite chapter in the series so far. Pretty strong words. I think even Jennifer Liang may have said something similar so it seems like a legitimate statement.

What this means plot wise I have no idea. Whether it's ghenjei or Rand I have my opinion (Rand) but we'll just have to see.

By the way, unless you want major spoilers don't go on dragonmount in the spoiler section. I had to stop reading so nothing important got ruined. :p

Zaela Sedai
10-20-2009, 08:33 PM
I can't wait...


squeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

The Tuon thing is intuitively obvious :P

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm glad we'll get a tuon POV. Her short POV in knife of dreams was very entertaining, one of my favorite parts of that book in fact.

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 08:44 PM
By the way, unless you want major spoilers don't go on dragonmount in the spoiler section. I had to stop reading so nothing important got ruined. :p

Yeah, I got a MAJOR, HUGELY MAJOR spoiler. The poster even posted it in like size 3 font so I had to copy/paste it into a text file to strip the formatting. I'm such a spoiler whore. And it was confirmed by Jennifer. So, spoilers beware.

The Black Wind
10-20-2009, 08:48 PM
Yeah, I got a MAJOR, HUGELY MAJOR spoiler. The poster even posted it in like size 3 font so I had to copy/paste it into a text file to strip the formatting. I'm such a spoiler whore. And it was confirmed by Jennifer. So, spoilers beware.

I've managed to stay away for the last 2 hours or so but I'm beginning to feel the itch again.

......must.....resist

Terez
10-20-2009, 09:16 PM
haha, I don't want them bad enough to see people talking straight out about what happened in the book, unless it's in a vague "I'll throw you a hint or two" kind of way like Jason did, or like the chapter titles. Blatant spoilers are no fun - much better to read them myself.

When the prologue came out, I did get impatient because I expected the prologue then, and I couldn't get it, so it was extremely frustrating and stressful. So Frenzy was online, and I asked her to throw me some bones, and she did, and she was nice enough to do it in a vague-ish way.

creepybob
10-20-2009, 10:44 PM
Yeah, I got a MAJOR, HUGELY MAJOR spoiler. The poster even posted it in like size 3 font so I had to copy/paste it into a text file to strip the formatting. I'm such a spoiler whore. And it was confirmed by Jennifer. So, spoilers beware.


Yeah, though I'm more interested in HOW that happens than the fact that it does.

I'm actually more excited to find out how and why than I would have been not knowing. I'm weird that way.




...this is what she means, it's listed here in post 60 (http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,49099.msg1324325.html#msg1324325) and confirmed.

So, MAJOR SPOILER:

Verin will die.

We find out EVERYTHING about her before she dies, and a post hints her death is in connection to Demandred and other Forsaken, but that is unconfirmed.

Terez
10-20-2009, 10:49 PM
What are you guys talking about?

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 11:14 PM
Yeah, though I'm more interested in HOW that happens than the fact that it does.

No kidding. Especially after Jennifer's hint. I didn't see the supporting info in the thread, so did someone PM you the extra deets?

If her death is connected to the FS, do we want to speculate still whether that means she's BA or not?

bowlwoman
10-20-2009, 11:15 PM
What are you guys talking about?

We can't tell you, since it's a pretty big ol' fat spoiler. Do you want vagueish hints?

creepybob
10-20-2009, 11:37 PM
No kidding. Especially after Jennifer's hint. I didn't see the supporting info in the thread, so did someone PM you the extra deets?

If her death is connected to the FS, do we want to speculate still whether that means she's BA or not?

The extra bit was from later posts, specifically #75, made by the same guy who listed the chapters

I don't know if he was only referring to Verin's motivations, or to Demandred AND Verin's motivations.

As to BA, I don't know.

The last we've heard of Verin is in KoD, she's interested in both Taim and a statement by Rand that he "can't fight the Shadow and the Seanchan."

Then she leaves a letter:

"As I said, I have done what I can do here. I believe that I can fulfill my oath to you better elsewhere, so 1 have taken Tomas and gone to be about it. There are many ways to serve you, after all, and many needs. I am convinced that you can trust Cadsuane, and you certainly should heed her advice, but be wary of other sisters, including those who have sworn fealty to you. Such an oath means nothing to a Black sister, and even those who walk in the Light may interpret it in ways you would disapprove of. You already know that few see that oath as invoking absolute obedience in all things. Some may find other holes. So whether or not you follow Cadsuane's advice. and I repeat that you should, follow mine.
Be very wary."

Is she a darkfriend? I still don't think so, I think that Logain's statements about estates might have reminded her of something, hell she might know 'bout Graendal.

Either way she dies, and if it's connected to the Shadow, I don't see how leaving Rand at that point aids the Shadow. It's gotta be something else.

bowlwoman
10-21-2009, 12:01 AM
The extra bit was from later posts, specifically #75, made by the same guy who listed the chapters

I don't know if he was only referring to Verin's motivations, or to Demandred AND Verin's motivations.

I read it as only Verin's motivations, since someone else posted that you really don't see much more of Demandred than what's already been in the prologue. Based on Jennifer's hint, if Verin's in the WT then it could be anyone, BA or not.
As to BA, I don't know.

The last we've heard of Verin is in KoD, she's interested in both Taim and a statement by Rand that he "can't fight the Shadow and the Seanchan."

Then she leaves a letter:

"As I said, I have done what I can do here. I believe that I can fulfill my oath to you better elsewhere, so 1 have taken Tomas and gone to be about it. There are many ways to serve you, after all, and many needs. I am convinced that you can trust Cadsuane, and you certainly should heed her advice, but be wary of other sisters, including those who have sworn fealty to you. Such an oath means nothing to a Black sister, and even those who walk in the Light may interpret it in ways you would disapprove of. You already know that few see that oath as invoking absolute obedience in all things. Some may find other holes. So whether or not you follow Cadsuane's advice. and I repeat that you should, follow mine.
Be very wary."

Is she a darkfriend? I still don't think so, I think that Logain's statements about estates might have reminded her of something, hell she might know 'bout Graendal.

Either way she dies, and if it's connected to the Shadow, I don't see how leaving Rand at that point aids the Shadow. It's gotta be something else

I don't think she's a darkfriend, and I haven't for a while. I personally think her (self-appointed or not) task is to see that the conditions of the various prophecies are met, particularly the KC. To me, that explains some of her cryptic comments and blatant manipulations.

She was very interested in the Dark Prophecy in Fal Dara, so I wonder if she'll have a run-in with Slayer while trying to decipher it completely. Maybe he's the one who kills her...

Terez
10-21-2009, 12:05 AM
I actually didn't mind that spoiler much. Is that the worst one in the thread?

creepybob
10-21-2009, 01:26 AM
I actually didn't mind that spoiler much. Is that the worst one in the thread?

So far it's the only one.

I could send emails to those who've read it, but I'm more than happy to pick up whatever comes along in the forum.

creepybob
10-21-2009, 01:47 AM
Here's a condenced version of that DM thread, in case you hate DM or something:


Verin will die, we find out what her plans were. They are not spoiled by her death.

No Fain POV
No Slayer POV
No Moiraine POV
No new info on Noal
A couple of min viewings
Not a whole lot more prophecy.

About Demandred, nothing much for Demandred in this book. lots of suspicious characters though that might turn out as Demandred.

Regarding Verin's Loyalty... she is loyal up to the very end. and her 70-year project was not put into waste

Ok regarding Rand and Lews therin, lets just say that Rand did what he promised to Lews Therin. In return Lews Therin helped Rand find himself

About Verin, Her 70-year project was finally revealed. as some of you might have read in my post, she'll die

Mat will find out that the bubbles of evil are far more evil than they used to be. Also the Prince of Ravens will lose the Daughter of the Nine Moons. Tuon will die <---(And be renamed as Empress...the sneaky bastard)

Egwene will finally realize that a broken blade can never be mended, instead it will must be reforged anew. <---(This can mean anything...it could mean removing the aijas, or something similar, or just changing the Red's purpose, or doing away with the oaths.)

Oh, aviendha will visit the Waste once more <---(She's supposed to be close to finishing her apprenticeship anyway, so it makes sense that she becomes a full-on Wise One)

Is Mazrim Taim present in this book?
nope

Would you regard Egwene as being 'happy' at the end of TGS?
happy, hopeful, and ready. that is egwene at the end of the book.

Does it seem like the Dark One is actually winning by any means?
The dark one's touch is becoming more and more horrifying

Any new very surprising DF's?
oh yeah! a very surprising DF indeed

Do any good guys besides the one you mentioned die?
well one of the "used to be" good guy/girl will die. <---(I think he means the newly revealed DF...whomever it is.

I think one of my favorite characters in this book was Talmanes. He doesn't play a huge part but Brandon really made him more 3-dimensional. We of course can't forget Verin either. I was enraptured by her appearances.

Veins of Gold is one of the best chapters in the series. But I assure you every single chapter in this book will be phenomenal (well that excludes the Perrin chapters though LOL)



Who will we find out is a Darkfriend?
Lots of Aes Sedai (BA Bust Implication)

(separate) And yeah, we will see Elaida in this book (we already knew that from chap 2)


well a LOT of things happened. especially with tons of Darkfriends showing up! I don't want to spoil the fun but let's just say TDR hit two birds in this book (at least with where I am now)

Btw, the conversation with Verin is.... :eek:

Moridin will do something cool in this book Smiley

Chapter 22 will be very monumental IMHO. (Title: The Last that Could be Done)

Like I said Chapter 22 will be a very big turning point in the story.

at the point where i'm at around 2 months have already passed.

Aldrin (Name in Chapter 11) is an integral part of the book. Also the bubbles of evil in this book is 100X scarier that those in books 10 and 11


That'll save some digging. It includes 'till page 8 for future reference

Wunderwaffe
10-21-2009, 07:01 AM
I shouldn't have read the chapter titles.

Mort
10-21-2009, 07:47 AM
Now why did I have to be so curious and read all the spoilers? It didn't spoil all that much too me, but now I'm like 10x more excited, I can't take more excitement!!

I'll have to hide beneath a stone or something for a few days when the book is out. I won't be able to read it or a few days :(

bowlwoman
10-21-2009, 10:02 AM
Another MAJOR spoiler from DM (although some people may not call it a spoiler at all :D):

Sheriam is BA.

SauceyBlueConfetti
10-21-2009, 11:29 AM
Crap. Now I have to avoid this thread because, yes, I am also a spoiler whore. But I am holding STRONG right now and not reading them.

Crap. Crap. Crappity Crap.

Anyone taking the day off Tuesday from work to read? I was planning on it, but a meeting came up that I can't change. BOOOOOOOOO!

I remember the last release and how the boards were completely desolate for hours and hours. All the little nerds off reading and thinking, reading and thinking.

I AM SO EXCITED!

1Powerslave
10-21-2009, 11:44 AM
Now why did I have to go and read the first three words Creepybob's condenced DM spoilers. Gaaah! I didn't want to be spoiled! Why would i want that? But how was I to know the good stuff was in the first three wordsss!!! :( :)
I think I need to stay away from the tGS board. Grrr.

Terez
10-21-2009, 12:08 PM
Bob, I think you should start a new thread for your spoilers - a lot of people are probably coming in here thinking they're only going to read chapter titles and getting whole book spoilers.

But yay, interesting tidbits! Let's discuss them in another thread!

bowlwoman
10-21-2009, 12:09 PM
Can we split off the posts that have the actual spoilers/discussions?

Terez
10-21-2009, 12:12 PM
Looking into it. Tam doesn't want to look, even at the chapter titles, so he won't do it.

Callandor
10-21-2009, 12:15 PM
It's such a good thing to have. I gave myself a treat with chapter titles, and that's it.

I like keeping that tradition, so no spoilers for me. Thankfully, people have been good with blocking them.

So far.

Saucey needs her space, so run run run!

And now I'm off to find my rock dwelling once more. Spoiler whores of Theoryland!

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Terez
10-21-2009, 12:16 PM
haha, you were a spoiler whore for KoD weren't you? I seem to remember you posting in all the spoiler threads, while I was avoiding them. I had better self control when I was a noob...

SauceyBlueConfetti
10-21-2009, 12:21 PM
Stick with us for a bit C. I have missed you and I am not afraid to admit it!

Terez
10-21-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm sure he'll be back next week, lol.

Enigma
10-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Chapter 36: The Death of Tuon

Don't the empresses take a new name when they become empress. If I'm not mistaken Suroth considered this when thinking of Tuon and the Empress being dead and going for the job herself.

If she is being crowned would it not be Tuon is no more long live the Empress X.

GonzoTheGreat
10-21-2009, 05:21 PM
Yep. That one's intuitively obvious to the most casual reader.
Which means that Asmodean was killed by Mat's late mother in law.

Terez
10-21-2009, 08:12 PM
Chapter 36: The Death of Tuon

Don't the empresses take a new name when they become empress. If I'm not mistaken Suroth considered this when thinking of Tuon and the Empress being dead and going for the job herself.

If she is being crowned would it not be Tuon is no more long live the Empress X.
I said that already - pay attention. :p

Callandor
10-21-2009, 10:36 PM
haha, you were a spoiler whore for KoD weren't you?

I can't remember how much I saw when KoD came out (it might have been information spanning the entire book; it was a hefty amount that's for sure), but I do remember learning of Aram's death before reading the book.

And that's precisely why spoilers most of the time suck: Aram's death was meant to be a shock first time through. And here I was reading and knowing the entire time. Scene becomes, if not meaningless, at least severely weakened.

Some things are decent to know ahead of time (everyone knows we're going to the Tower of Ghenjei, for instance), but with the major things and how they're resolved, it's just a bad deal. You want that itch to be scratched and basically cut your arm off with a cheap and easy solution. We all know the point of the story is the reading of it, not just learning of the ending. That first reading experience is 95% of the joy we'll get out of the book (the other 5% coming from years of wringing out every detail).

Not worth it to spoil that first reading. I've done it. That's why I figured the chapter titles were good enough. I wouldn't mind knowing which POV was which chapter, but that's about all I want to know. And if I have to live 5 more days without having that information, I'll just have to try to deal with the loss.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Terez
10-21-2009, 11:31 PM
I can't remember how much I saw when KoD came out (it might have been information spanning the entire book; it was a hefty amount that's for sure), but I do remember learning of Aram's death before reading the book.

And that's precisely why spoilers most of the time suck: Aram's death was meant to be a shock first time through. And here I was reading and knowing the entire time. Scene becomes, if not meaningless, at least severely weakened.
Well. I think Aram's death just sucked. It was anti-climactic. So, you confused that reaction with having been spoiled for it. :D

Anyway...I can't talk to you for a week then cause I will have finished it by tomorrow (hopefully). Woo!

creepybob
10-21-2009, 11:42 PM
Bob, I think you should start a new thread for your spoilers - a lot of people are probably coming in here thinking they're only going to read chapter titles and getting whole book spoilers.

But yay, interesting tidbits! Let's discuss them in another thread!

Sure, I guess, I gave fair warning and put the post in a spoiler block, but I'll discuss it elsewhere.


...though I really don't wanna see too many more.

Neilbert
10-22-2009, 12:39 AM
And that's precisely why spoilers most of the time suck: Aram's death was meant to be a shock first time through. And here I was reading and knowing the entire time. Scene becomes, if not meaningless, at least severely weakened.

I didn't have it spoiled for me, and a quote from Firefly sums up my reaction rather well. "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal."

If anything I was mostly relieved to be done with a boring character. The anticlimactness of it was probably the best part.

Terez
10-22-2009, 01:18 AM
Sure, I guess, I gave fair warning and put the post in a spoiler block, but I'll discuss it elsewhere.


...though I really don't wanna see too many more.
I posted some vague-ish major-spoiler-avoiding chapter summaries for the first 12 in the spoiler thread, and put the only major spoiler in spoiler tags so that you can read the rest without that quite easily. I listed points of view for a few chapters after that, with number of pages dedicated to each, but no real info on those.

Crispin's Crispian
10-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Some interesting chapter names.

I find the most interesting are the one's involving plays on metal or metal working :

Chapter 1: Tears from Steel
Chapter 6: When Iron melts
Chapter 46: To be Forged again
Chapter 50: Veins of Gold

I'm just wondering if Rand is going to seal up the DO by burning the 17th Metal.

1Powerslave
10-22-2009, 07:04 PM
I can't remember how much I saw when KoD came out (it might have been information spanning the entire book; it was a hefty amount that's for sure), but I do remember learning of Aram's death before reading the book.

And that's precisely why spoilers most of the time suck: Aram's death was meant to be a shock first time through. And here I was reading and knowing the entire time. Scene becomes, if not meaningless, at least severely weakened.

Some things are decent to know ahead of time (everyone knows we're going to the Tower of Ghenjei, for instance), but with the major things and how they're resolved, it's just a bad deal. You want that itch to be scratched and basically cut your arm off with a cheap and easy solution. We all know the point of the story is the reading of it, not just learning of the ending. That first reading experience is 95% of the joy we'll get out of the book (the other 5% coming from years of wringing out every detail).

Not worth it to spoil that first reading. I've done it. That's why I figured the chapter titles were good enough. I wouldn't mind knowing which POV was which chapter, but that's about all I want to know. And if I have to live 5 more days without having that information, I'll just have to try to deal with the loss.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif
I agree with all of the above. Though it's more like 50-50 %. ;)