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View Full Version : What is "Victory" for the Dark One? (ch.15 spoilers)


Belazamon
10-28-2009, 12:54 AM
I got tired of only talking about LTT, so I decided to "borrow" a thread from the Main Board (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2362) and start talking about it here. ;)

As you all might know, I have certain theories (http://www.theoryland.com/factions.php?func=4&rec=56) about what the Dark One wants. With that in mind, I found the following from tGS to be interesting.

"Consider it. The Wheel turns, time and time again. Over and over the Ages turn, and men fight the Great Lord. But someday he will win, and when he does, the Wheel will stop.

"That is why his victory is assured. I think it will be this Age, but if not, then in another. When you are victorious, it only leads to another battle. When he is victorious, all things will end. Can you not see that there is no hope for you?"

"Is that what made you turn to his side?" Rand asked. "You were always so full of thoughts, Elan. Your logic destroyed you, didn't it?"

"There is no path to victory," Moridin said. "The only path is to follow the Great Lord and rule for a time before all things end. The others are fools. They look for grand rewards in the eternities, but there will be no eternities. Only the now, the last days."
I don't think anyone doubts that if anyone knows what the Great Lord is actually planning, it's Ishy. Personally I feel this is another strong hint that I'm on the right track. Thoughts?

Mort
10-28-2009, 09:02 AM
Moridin seems to believe that there won't be any world left if the DO wins, and I agree.

Davian93
10-28-2009, 10:28 AM
Ishy is a nihilist.

That dream in TAR was one of my favorite parts of the book. The relationship between Ishy and LTT is central to the books and I can't wait for more confrontations. To see them have a normal adult conversation for the first time since the AoL was awesome.

The "You always thought too much, Elan" had the feel of old friends/comrades. Great writing that.

ShadowbaneX
10-28-2009, 09:58 PM
kinda struck me in this book that the best way to defeat the DO was much the same way that Egwene's looking to rebuild the Tower (although this occured to me before I read that part). Part of it makes me think that Rand might actually have to break the Wheel itself and then rebuild it to reseal the prison.

4Alethinos
10-31-2009, 12:44 PM
There is not enough combined power among the users of the OP to destroy the Wheel. Period. First of all, where do you look to find it?

Sorry SBX, but that just is not possible. We have learned that the CK are not to be used in forcing the DO back into his prison. Without them there is no way it can happen. I am not sure that could be done except either by the Creator or the DO.

The DO cannot be killed. He is an eternal being just as is the Creator. Even in the Belgariad, the dark god was not eternal.

ShadowbaneX
10-31-2009, 12:55 PM
There is not enough combined power among the users of the OP to destroy the Wheel. Period. First of all, where do you look to find it?

Sorry SBX, but that just is not possible. We have learned that the CK are not to be used in forcing the DO back into his prison. Without them there is no way it can happen. I am not sure that could be done except either by the Creator or the DO.

The DO cannot be killed. He is an eternal being just as is the Creator. Even in the Belgariad, the dark god was not eternal.
I know 4A, it's just another of my random looney theories like periodically the Shadow wins and in the moment of his winning and remaking of the Pattern he becomes the Creator and the previous Creator is sealed away and becomes the new Dark One. The forces on either side, headed by Rand and Ishy also then switch sides, etc. It's just random speculation with little to no support, nothing serious.

Callandor
11-01-2009, 01:57 AM
The immortality aspect always struck me as a rationalization. I know in the Budapest interview Jordan alluded to this when asked about the Forsaken, making airs that if the Dark One won would he really grant them immortality? RAFO RAFO, of course.

And yes, I thought this section was fantastic. I don't care if it was Brandon or Jordan or a mix, it was damn good. I especially liked the nudge that it was Rand doing this with the dreams, not Moridin. It's almost making you feel for Moridin. Pain with his hand, more angry all the time, now getting Rand's lack of sleep! Pity for the big baddie.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Davian93
11-01-2009, 08:01 AM
The immortality aspect always struck me as a rationalization. I know in the Budapest interview Jordan alluded to this when asked about the Forsaken, making airs that if the Dark One won would he really grant them immortality? RAFO RAFO, of course.

And yes, I thought this section was fantastic. I don't care if it was Brandon or Jordan or a mix, it was damn good. I especially liked the nudge that it was Rand doing this with the dreams, not Moridin. It's almost making you feel for Moridin. Pain with his hand, more angry all the time, now getting Rand's lack of sleep! Pity for the big baddie.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

It was the best scene in the book, hands down.