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The Black Wind
10-28-2009, 03:00 PM
Why skip Galad and Perrin!?

We know they meet since Rand had a vision of them talking to one another. So why not include it in the story arc for Perrin instead of filling it with that useless fluff about him checking axles and Faile burning things? I found Perrin's story arc very lacking. I know It wasn't supposed to be a big part of this book but the Perrin/Galad scene seemed like a golden opportunity for some drama.

Hopefully we see a bit of it in ToM but it wouldn't make chronological sense unless Brandon went backward in time (something I thought they were trying to get away from).

Other than that, I thought the book was great. Very intense at time. Rand's encounter's with semi and tam both had me panting and whispering no to myself. I don't think there had been another book that got me so riled up. I liked it a lot. :)

Belazamon
10-28-2009, 03:14 PM
I will agree, Perrin's part in this book was useless. Of course, I've been mostly uninterested in Perrin pretty much since he left to go find the Prophet, so there you are.

jana
10-28-2009, 07:33 PM
That made no sense to me either.

I do think we will go back in time and see it, though. And if that's the case it makes even less sense that we didn't just get it in this book.

Davian93
10-28-2009, 07:35 PM
Perrin's arc time was useless and Mat's was mostly useless.

The Black Wind
10-28-2009, 07:40 PM
I was just wondering why they referenced the encounter with Galad from Rand's swirling colors but didn't show it. There was tons of anticipation for it. And lots of good potential drama. It would seem foolish not to include it. This leads me to believe that it will be in ToM despite the apparent time line issues.

Davian93
10-28-2009, 07:41 PM
I was just wondering why they referenced the encounter with Galad from Rand's swirling colors but didn't show it. There was tons of anticipation for it. And lots of good potential drama. It would seem foolish not to include it. This leads me to believe that it will be in ToM despite the apparent time line issues.

I doubt anyone would have been upset if we had gotten that instead of the stupid wagon scene.

The Black Wind
10-28-2009, 07:58 PM
I doubt anyone would have been upset if we had gotten that instead of the stupid wagon scene.

My point exactly. This leads me to believe that the meeting is part of some greater Perrin plot arc which, for congruency sake, was pushed into ToM.

Terez
10-28-2009, 08:18 PM
I figure he didn't show it because it's going to be a long, involved plotline, so they didn't have space in the book for it.

It doesn't bother me - characters have had bit parts in books before.

ShadowbaneX
10-28-2009, 09:36 PM
I figure he didn't show it because it's going to be a long, involved plotline, so they didn't have space in the book for it.

It doesn't bother me - characters have had bit parts in books before.
not just bit parts in many cases. Unless I'm mistaken, like Perrin in tFoH and Mat in tPoD, Elayne wasn't even in this book. Aviendha's part was also fairly small, mostly consisting of her doing useless chores. What was there did have their points, and as BS said, this could have been the monster 3-books-in-1, but they had to move it around a little. The book ended in a good spot and if they had to move things around a little for the best fit, then so be it. I'm sure we'll see Perrin meet up with Galad in the next book...and along with it the long anticipated meet between Galad and Berelain.

jana
10-28-2009, 10:08 PM
What would have made the most sense, IMO, is simply having Rand not get that vision. And not having Tam mention Morgase.

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 08:09 PM
as I said in another post, I'm guessing it will be the Prolougue of the next book

The Black Wind
10-29-2009, 08:21 PM
It seems somewhat bigger than a prologue scene. I think they'll show it outright as a portion of the greater Perrin story arc.

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 08:23 PM
RJ had always said the Prologue is an extension of the previous book. I think the meet will be there, I'm sure there will be more chapters with the whole crew coming to Rand throughout the next book.

Davian93
10-29-2009, 08:29 PM
RJ had always said the Prologue is an extension of the previous book. I think the meet will be there, I'm sure there will be more chapters with the whole crew coming to Rand throughout the next book.

The best part is we have about 11.5 months till the next book if all goes well.

The Black Wind
10-29-2009, 09:42 PM
Now that they've given me a taste I want it now! :p

FelixPax
10-29-2009, 11:07 PM
Why skip Galad and Perrin!?

Your not the only one to wonder about the lack of Galad's pov.

I found Perrin's story arc very lacking. I know It wasn't supposed to be a big part of this book but the Perrin/Galad scene seemed like a golden opportunity for some drama.

Almost all the major character pov in tGS seemed to me, to be focused upon decisions "within" to become a leader. To step up, to move on, to become a true leader. Yes, Perrin, Egwene, Aviendha, Tuon, Rand and even Faile's pov scenes all did this.

Perrin was running from the wolves in TAR, scared to become a wolf...and Perrin was running from becoming leader of Two Rivers. Perrin finally decided mentally to take the next step, and become a "Lord". Berelain, Faile, Balwer, Alliandre and even Tam have help Perrin decide it necessary for his people to become a leader. Of course, Perrin as only half finished this...Perrin still needs to become a true leader of the wolves.

I believe RJ and Brandon wanted emphasize the final few steps of the young'sters becoming "true leaders" of their various groups in tGS.

I think we'll see Lan, Galad, Loial, and even Taim doing the same in the next book (ToM), becoming leaders for good or ill in Taim's case.

Mort
10-30-2009, 03:57 AM
Even Mat came to the conclusion that he had to stop running and face his problems, which should be a big shock to everyone :)

Davian93
10-30-2009, 07:44 AM
The reason we don't have many Galad POVs is because he is clearly a Darkfriend. It'll come out soon enough and blow everyone's mind.

creepybob
10-30-2009, 11:54 AM
The reason we don't have many Galad POVs is because he is clearly a Darkfriend. It'll come out soon enough and blow everyone's mind.

...hell, why not believe that since Verin turned out to be a DF and Elaida was captured instead of stilled and made an example of.

I'm only upset that the meeting was MENTIONED before it played out. It's the only time in the whole series that the Rainbow Connection (Some day we'll find it, the rainbow connection, the lovers, the dreamers, and me) revealed anything that had not been fully explored.

Toss the dice
10-30-2009, 02:00 PM
The first thing I did when I got TGS was read all of Mat's sections. I found them to be pointless, like someone else mentioned. To be honest, they were downright depressing and felt weird to boot. Mat didn't accomplish a damn thing, he is now a pussy, and he is a VERY different character than we saw in KoD, let alone his last stuff in KoD. I realize he is worried for Tuon, but I don't like his new persona, the things he accomplished (nothing), or the way Mat's sections were written, down to usage of terms and words and dialogue between characters.

I have read a few other chapters of non-Mat stuff in TGS and am looking forward to having the time to read the rest. But the Mat stuff was a complete letdown for me, and there's obviously no one that feels crappier about me saying that than me. I was really looking forward to some good things. (and personally I didn't expect any ToG stuff in this 1st book)

I hate saying stuff like this and I'm sure this post will be met with criticism and offense, but this is my honest opinion of Mat's sections of TGS. Hopefully the rest of the book that I haven't read yet makes up for it and then things get awesome in the next book.

ShadowbaneX
10-30-2009, 02:30 PM
to me, this slight depth of character is even better for Mat, there's more to him then just womanizing, dicing, drinking and soldiering. Mat does have brains, when he can be made to use them and right now with Tuon gone they're in overdrive, hence the several page back-histories for the guys going into the towns.

As Tuon described him "he makes an onion look like an apple" and this is just another layer of Mat, one I quite thoroughly enjoy.

Zaela Sedai
10-30-2009, 02:34 PM
I agree, I think Mats bad assness will be in the next book. He doesn't have to decide to lead, he has been for many books now.

Birgitte
10-30-2009, 08:27 PM
Yeah, I'm with SBX here.

Plus, Mat's constant angry bitching of the previous few books felt a lot more unnatural than him mouthing off to Joline or his elaborate backstories.

Terez
10-30-2009, 08:45 PM
I must have missed the constant angry bitching. Maybe I really need a re-read...

Davian93
10-30-2009, 09:11 PM
He seemed much more capable in KoD "Lion on the High Plains" as Tuon said than he did in this one. And Talmanes seemed off. Otherwise, everyone was pretty well written.

jason wolfbrother
10-31-2009, 04:08 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed the Mat and Talmanes dialogues. Showed that Mat does indeed have more sides than just drinking, dicing, womanizing, and soldiering.

Ishara
11-04-2009, 10:24 AM
I loved Mat's scenes! He was a full-fledged character with depth, and damn funny. The only laugh our loud moment I had in the entire book was Mat's "elaborate backstories." They killed me!

Talmanes for me has always been a peripheral character - not much to him, just a background guy. in tGS, he was excellent, a foil to Mat, but clever in his own right. I feel like we finally got to know him a bit.

As for the Perrin/ Faile povs - well I think a lot of that may have had to do with the fan reaction to her capture and her actions during that capture. There was a LOT of discourse over the right/ wrong-ness of it all, and I feel that BS needed to wrap that up a bit. Better to have it dealt with now than have people thinking about it two books later, no? I liked the character development bits in this book. They gave us insight into the main characters that we haven't had in a long while, and they acted as a nice counter-point to all of the action.

Crispin's Crispian
11-04-2009, 10:39 AM
I loved Mat's scenes! He was a full-fledged character with depth, and damn funny. the only laough our loud moment i ad in the entire book was Mat's "elaborate backstories." They killed me!

Wow. I thought Mat's scenese were the only ones where I can discern a true difference between BS and RJ. And not in a good way--I found Mat to be way more sarcastic and bitchy in TGS than ever before. Yes, he complained and whined in earlier books, but never so constantly. He was like a slightly depressed Chandler Bing, except not as funny. And that was really the only dimension I got.

Talmanes for me has always been a peripheral character - not much to him, just a background guy. in tGS, he was excellent, a foil to Mat, but clever in his own right. I feel like we finally got to know him a bit.This I agree with--I found him to be decent comic relief, and interesting to boot.

As for the Perrin/ Faile povs - well I think a lot of that may have had to do with the fan reaction to her capture and her actions during that capture. There was a LOT of discourse over the right/ wrong-ness of it all, and I feel that BS needed to wrap that up a bit. Better to have it dealt with now than have people thinking about it two books later, no? I liked the character development bits in this book. They gave us insight into the main characters that we haven't had in a long while, and they acted as a nice counter-point to all of the action.
Yes. It seemed like the whole scene with Perrin existed for him to realize that he'd made a mistake in pursuing the Shaido, and now he had to get back to the real work. I'm not sure about Faile. Maybe the whole burning ritual was supposed to be symbolic to the reader that the Perrin/Faile/Shaido plotline is over and done with.

Azure Skeith
11-05-2009, 10:22 AM
Wow. I thought Mat's scenese were the only ones where I can discern a true difference between BS and RJ. And not in a good way--I found Mat to be way more sarcastic and bitchy in TGS than ever before. Yes, he complained and whined in earlier books, but never so constantly. He was like a slightly depressed Chandler Bing, except not as funny. And that was really the only dimension I got.

I personally found a few of the scenes with mat funny, if not laugh out worthy. But I also dislike the way he was written in this, I can't really put a finger on any specifics, but I am annoyed with the writing style in this book.

This I agree with--I found him to be decent comic relief, and interesting to boot.

This I truly hate. BS turned Talmanes into comic relief. The WoT books have previously had entertaining moments, but no real comic relief character. And to use Talmanes for it? Mat has connistently remarked throughout the books how Talmanes has no sense of humor, he is generally blase about everything infact. Really bad move in my opinion.

Ozymandias
11-05-2009, 10:37 AM
I was MUCH more disappointed with Mat's scenes than Perrin's. Perrin appeared so rarely that its clear BS put him in just to let us know he hadn't forgotten. I didn't expect anything to happen, and nothing could have in those two chapters. I'm glad they're saving his story arc for when they can devote a bit more time to it.

Mat, on the other hand, got shafted. He has a fair bit of time, and they do NOTHING with it. A stupid storyline with that whole zombie town, which was the one event which bothered me most and showed me that a rank amateur was writing this and not RJ, let alone an author with an ounce of literatic (yeah I just made that up) integrity. I thought BS did a good job, outside of that one scene. He's already splitting the book up into 3 because its so big... and so he decides to throw in this completely gratuitous, dead-end plot point which not only is about as far from something RJ would write, but feels like its pandering a little too much to the current obsession with all things zombie?

Mat had enough time devoted to him to tie up some real storylines, or have him go off and do something important. Instead, it just takes him 100 pages to make it to Caemlyn, without advancing his plot at all

JSUCamel
11-05-2009, 10:41 AM
I was MUCH more disappointed with Mat's scenes than Perrin's. Perrin appeared so rarely that its clear BS put him in just to let us know he hadn't forgotten. I didn't expect anything to happen, and nothing could have in those two chapters. I'm glad they're saving his story arc for when they can devote a bit more time to it.

Mat, on the other hand, got shafted. He has a fair bit of time, and they do NOTHING with it. A stupid storyline with that whole zombie town, which was the one event which bothered me most and showed me that a rank amateur was writing this and not RJ, let alone an author with an ounce of literatic (yeah I just made that up) integrity. I thought BS did a good job, outside of that one scene. He's already splitting the book up into 3 because its so big... and so he decides to throw in this completely gratuitous, dead-end plot point which not only is about as far from something RJ would write, but feels like its pandering a little too much to the current obsession with all things zombie?

Mat had enough time devoted to him to tie up some real storylines, or have him go off and do something important. Instead, it just takes him 100 pages to make it to Caemlyn, without advancing his plot at all

I disagree.

Brita
11-05-2009, 12:30 PM
Mat, on the other hand, got shafted. He has a fair bit of time, and they do NOTHING with it. A stupid storyline with that whole zombie town, which was the one event which bothered me most and showed me that a rank amateur was writing this and not RJ, let alone an author with an ounce of literatic (yeah I just made that up) integrity. I thought BS did a good job, outside of that one scene. He's already splitting the book up into 3 because its so big... and so he decides to throw in this completely gratuitous, dead-end plot point which not only is about as far from something RJ would write, but feels like its pandering a little too much to the current obsession with all things zombie?


I didn't mind the Mat storyline too much. But the zombie section....Ozy- I agree with every word you wrote. That was my exact feeling when it was all done. I was like "Huh?"

Ishara
11-05-2009, 02:27 PM
I disagree.
I agree with your disagreement.

Zombie-town was AWESOME. Look, I think of it as a way better bubble of evil town than the one perrin encountered (um, name escapes me). You needed to have that town and his interactions there to get Verin into the story in a feasible way. Just having her appear is ridiculous.


And Talmanes has always been sarcastic. It is MAT that's seeing it for the first time, not us!

DeiwosTheSkyGod
11-05-2009, 04:17 PM
Look, I think of it as a way better bubble of evil town than the one perrin encountered (um, name escapes me). You needed to have that town and his interactions there to get Verin into the story in a feasible way. Just having her appear is ridiculous.

Agree. I thought Zombie-town was kinda weird, but it shows how screwed up the Pattern itself is getting. That whole section really upped the urgency of the situation, to me.

But my favorite bubble of evil was the one with bugs (roaches, beetles, whatever they were) in the tent. So gross.

Birgitte
11-05-2009, 04:37 PM
I agree with your disagreement.

Zombie-town was AWESOME. Look, I think of it as a way better bubble of evil town than the one perrin encountered (um, name escapes me). You needed to have that town and his interactions there to get Verin into the story in a feasible way. Just having her appear is ridiculous.


And Talmanes has always been sarcastic. It is MAT that's seeing it for the first time, not us!


Yeah, I'm with you. Plus, it really would've bugged me if there had been no set-up to Verin showing up and talking to Mat. She's not omniscient, dammit!

GonzoTheGreat
11-05-2009, 04:40 PM
But the Pattern is. And it was the Pattern which drove her to where she ended up, wasn't it?

Which raises the question: why didn't the Pattern drive Mierin to a place where she never met Lews Therin? Would've saved lots of trouble in the long run, I think.

Belazamon
11-05-2009, 05:36 PM
But the Pattern is. And it was the Pattern which drove her to where she ended up, wasn't it?
Well, that's what she told him.

How many chapters after that did we find out for certain that she could lie? ;)

Crispin's Crispian
11-05-2009, 06:11 PM
I didn't mind the Mat storyline too much. But the zombie section....Ozy- I agree with every word you wrote. That was my exact feeling when it was all done. I was like "Huh?"
And keep in mind--there are still two books left. This may become important somehow.

Maybe the whole world will turn super-aggressive zombie barfighter at night. Then the Ogier will have to sing them better.

ShadowbaneX
11-05-2009, 06:16 PM
I don't think "zombies" is quite right...more like berzerkers.

nameless
11-05-2009, 06:20 PM
I kind of liked the crazy zombie town, if only because before that point the "bubbles of evil" had been getting progressively lamer every time. I mean, you start out with reflections jumping out of the mirror and painted figures on playing cards coming to life. From there you get "dust monsters" in the Waste, "tent monsters" in Salidar, "fog monsters," which are just like the dust monsters only wetter, then tent monsters again... I guess the guy who vomitted himself to death was kinda cool, and I liked the ghost town that sank into the road and took a peddler with it, but for the most part the Dark One's touch just involved things moving around when they weren't supposed to. It was nice to see some variety.

Crispin's Crispian
11-05-2009, 07:17 PM
I kind of liked the crazy zombie town, if only because before that point the "bubbles of evil" had been getting progressively lamer every time. I mean, you start out with reflections jumping out of the mirror and painted figures on playing cards coming to life. From there you get "dust monsters" in the Waste, "tent monsters" in Salidar, "fog monsters," which are just like the dust monsters only wetter, then tent monsters again... I guess the guy who vomitted himself to death was kinda cool, and I liked the ghost town that sank into the road and took a peddler with it, but for the most part the Dark One's touch just involved things moving around when they weren't supposed to. It was nice to see some variety.
I haven't literally laughed out loud at Theoryland in a long time. Holy crap that was good!

Tent monsters.... :eek:

And don't forget Adrin, the Spontaneously Combusting Man. He's responsible for the sweet (ahem) cover art this time around.

Ozymandias
11-05-2009, 07:46 PM
That single bubble of evil took up about 3 chapters (if not more) of setting up. That makes it a major plot point. All the monsters, and the bugs... those are things that happen, and demonstrate that the Pattern is getting weaker and the DO stronger.

BS made a relatively large portion of the book resolve around this. And btw, this had nothing to do with Verin, so it can't even be considered advancing that plot point. I'm just upset that BS took a great character and instead of going somewhere with him, as he does have some very important stuff to take care of, he decided to pander to the whole "Twilight" crowd and make a zombie story. There are very few things in these books that three chapters are spent on that don't become a story arc. And somehow I doubt this every comes back into focus as an important moment.

It was just a waste of time in a story that Tor and Brandon have already decided is too long. I've never bought into the criticism that RJ was extending the story just to sell more books, but reading that unnecessary, completely gratuitous crap in a story thats already been admitted to be too long to publish in not one, but two books, just really angered me. Cut that out, and a few other scenes like it, and maybe you could fit everything into two bindings instead of making us shell out, and wait, for three.

Matoyak
11-05-2009, 08:53 PM
Ozy, I'm glad you know exactly what RJ would have written. Means you could tell us who killed Asmo.

Kurtz
11-05-2009, 09:04 PM
That single bubble of evil took up about 3 chapters (if not more) of setting up. That makes it a major plot point. All the monsters, and the bugs... those are things that happen, and demonstrate that the Pattern is getting weaker and the DO stronger.

BS made a relatively large portion of the book resolve around this. And btw, this had nothing to do with Verin, so it can't even be considered advancing that plot point. I'm just upset that BS took a great character and instead of going somewhere with him, as he does have some very important stuff to take care of, he decided to pander to the whole "Twilight" crowd and make a zombie story. There are very few things in these books that three chapters are spent on that don't become a story arc. And somehow I doubt this every comes back into focus as an important moment.

It was just a waste of time in a story that Tor and Brandon have already decided is too long. I've never bought into the criticism that RJ was extending the story just to sell more books, but reading that unnecessary, completely gratuitous crap in a story thats already been admitted to be too long to publish in not one, but two books, just really angered me. Cut that out, and a few other scenes like it, and maybe you could fit everything into two bindings instead of making us shell out, and wait, for three.

I agree that Mat's parts were weak, and I found them awkward at best. I wouldn't criticise too much though, there wasn't page space for Mat to embark on anything worthwhile, and those frightening Mat groupies would have been apoplectic had their golden boy been ignored for a whole book.

Not sure about your point regarding 'shelling out' for the books. It's a pretty minor sacrifice, and I for one am glad it's gone to three books. It's disturbing to think what we still may miss out on.

Seeker
11-05-2009, 10:22 PM
That single bubble of evil took up about 3 chapters (if not more) of setting up. That makes it a major plot point. All the monsters, and the bugs... those are things that happen, and demonstrate that the Pattern is getting weaker and the DO stronger.

BS made a relatively large portion of the book resolve around this. And btw, this had nothing to do with Verin, so it can't even be considered advancing that plot point. I'm just upset that BS took a great character and instead of going somewhere with him, as he does have some very important stuff to take care of, he decided to pander to the whole "Twilight" crowd and make a zombie story. There are very few things in these books that three chapters are spent on that don't become a story arc. And somehow I doubt this every comes back into focus as an important moment.

It was just a waste of time in a story that Tor and Brandon have already decided is too long. I've never bought into the criticism that RJ was extending the story just to sell more books, but reading that unnecessary, completely gratuitous crap in a story thats already been admitted to be too long to publish in not one, but two books, just really angered me. Cut that out, and a few other scenes like it, and maybe you could fit everything into two bindings instead of making us shell out, and wait, for three

Yes, because this is the Wheel of Time! We have important dress selecting and braid tugging to talk about! And let's not forget all the sniffing!

How dare they waste our time on a subplot that is both entertaining and exciting? What were they thinking.

Dude, you cannot accuse this book of padding and have any claim to honesty. With the absolutely amazing amount of things that happened in this book, the number of plot-lines that were resolved. There was no way this book can be accused of padding. Not with any shred of honesty in the accuser.

So why was Mat in it at all, you ask?

Because you should never have a Wheel of Time book without Mat in it. It's like having a Star Wars movie without Han Solo! (And if anyone mentions the prequels, why do you think they sucked so much ass?) It's like having a Superman movie without Lois Lane!

Why didn't Mat fight armies like he did in the last book? Because his next big plot arc is the Tower of Ghenjei. Now, I thought they were going to do that in this book, but obviously the team feels that it chronologically lines up with the next book. And since we don't know the intended plot arc, we need to wait and see.

That said, you had to give Mat something to do! Enter the Zombies! So what if it's an aside? An aside can be a good thing if it's entertaining.

Plus
1) The zombie town DOES introduce Verin
2) The zombie town shows how bad the pattern's gotten
3) The zombie town motivates Mat to become more proactive,

All of these three things affect the larger plot.

As for accusations that Mat is out of character. "Bull-crap," I say! The Mat that we see in this book is one hundred percent true to the person he always was. If there is any difference it is simply in the way that Mat is presented to us.

We were always TOLD that Mat was cocky, flippant and disrespectful of authority figures. But frankly, I didn't see it that much. I heard other characters comment on Mat's rebellious nature, but I don't really remember seeing him be rebellious.

Now we are being SHOWN Mat displaying these traits. Now Mat is acting the way other characters say he's always acted. Mat is being defined by his behavior, not by other characters thoughts about him or even his thoughts about himself. And this reporter thinks it's about @&#$ing time! (Kent Brockman voice).

I'm surprised that people are complaining about Mat. If there's any character that I would expect people wished had just not been talked about, it's Gawyn freaking Trackand. Not only is he completely unimportant. (Name me one book where Gawyn did anything more than stand around in the background). But while he's being unimportant, he's also being a stupid, egotistical, sexist (even by medieval standards) asshole.

You wanna know who Gawyn reminds me of? Anakin Skywalker! And again, that wouldn't be so bad if he actually DID something. I wouldn't mind reading about a stupid, egotistical, sexist asshole if he did something remotely interesting. But in addition to being annoying, Gawyn is BORING

However, while it is Brandon Sanderson's job to entertain, it is not his job to please me in particular. So, while I may not enjoy Gawyn, my objection alone isn't enough to call it a flaw.

And believe me, Brandon Sanderson entertained people. He entertained me A LOT; and the same can be said for most everyone I know.

I've said it before: this is the best book in the Wheel of Time series. And if it's not, it's second only to The Great Hunt or possibly the Dragon Reborn. (Back then, Mat was defined by his actions as well).

RJ, wherever you are, I adore your early work and I appreciate everything you've done for this community. So please, please, don't take it personally when I say....

Mr. Sanderson, if I ever get to meet you, I will do a full Wayne's World style, "We're not Worthy!"

Birgitte
11-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Yes, because this is the Wheel of Time! We have important dress selecting and braid tugging to talk about! And let's not forget all the sniffing!

How dare they waste our time on a subplot that is both entertaining and exciting? What were they thinking.

Dude, you cannot accuse this book of padding and have any claim to honesty. With the absolutely amazing amount of things that happened in this book, the number of plot-lines that were resolved. There was no way this book can be accused of padding. Not with any shred of honesty in the accuser.

So why was Mat in it at all, you ask?

Because you should never have a Wheel of Time book without Mat in it. It's like having a Star Wars movie without Han Solo! (And if anyone mentions the prequels, why do you think they sucked so much ass?) It's like having a Superman movie without Lois Lane!

Why didn't Mat fight armies like he did in the last book? Because his next big plot arc is the Tower of Ghenjei. Now, I thought they were going to do that in this book, but obviously the team feels that it chronologically lines up with the next book. And since we don't know the intended plot arc, we need to wait and see.

That said, you had to give Mat something to do! Enter the Zombies! So what if it's an aside? An aside can be a good thing if it's entertaining.

Plus
1) The zombie town DOES introduce Verin
2) The zombie town shows how bad the pattern's gotten
3) The zombie town motivates Mat to become more proactive,

All of these three things affect the larger plot.

As for accusations that Mat is out of character. "Bull-crap," I say! The Mat that we see in this book is one hundred percent true to the person he always was. If there is any difference it is simply in the way that Mat is presented to us.

We were always TOLD that Mat was cocky, flippant and disrespectful of authority figures. But frankly, I didn't see it that much. I heard other characters comment on Mat's rebellious nature, but I don't really remember seeing him be rebellious.

Now we are being SHOWN Mat displaying these traits. Now Mat is acting the way other characters say he's always acted. Mat is being defined by his behavior, not by other characters thoughts about him or even his thoughts about himself. And this reporter thinks it's about @&#$ing time! (Kent Brockman voice).

I'm surprised that people are complaining about Mat. If there's any character that I would expect people wished had just not been talked about, it's Gawyn freaking Trackand. Not only is he completely unimportant. (Name me one book where Gawyn did anything more than stand around in the background). But while he's being unimportant, he's also being a stupid, egotistical, sexist (even by medieval standards) asshole.

You wanna know who Gawyn reminds me of? Anakin Skywalker! And again, that wouldn't be so bad if he actually DID something. I wouldn't mind reading about a stupid, egotistical, sexist asshole if he did something remotely interesting. But in addition to being annoying, Gawyn is BORING

However, while it is Brandon Sanderson's job to entertain, it is not his job to please me in particular. So, while I may not enjoy Gawyn, my objection alone isn't enough to call it a flaw.

And believe me, Brandon Sanderson entertained people. He entertained me A LOT; and the same can be said for most everyone I know.

I've said it before: this is the best book in the Wheel of Time series. And if it's not, it's second only to The Great Hunt or possibly the Dragon Reborn. (Back then, Mat was defined by his actions as well).

RJ, wherever you are, I adore your early work and I appreciate everything you've done for this community. So please, please, don't take it personally when I say....

Mr. Sanderson, if I ever get to meet you, I will do a full Wayne's World style, "We're not Worthy!"



AMEN! To the whole damn thing. Most epecially "We're not worthy! We're not worthy! We suck!"

:cool:

Kurtz
11-05-2009, 10:46 PM
I see the Mat Mafia have turned up.

I liked Gawyn's scenes, mostly. He was a bit too stroppy. Also has a streak of the 'Lan's' regarding oath deflection.

I wish my name was Sleete

Birgitte
11-05-2009, 10:55 PM
I used to like Gawyn, but in this book, he was just annoying. Clearly Egwene is a precious snowflake who will melt at any authority or challenge. He must rush in and save her. God forbid she be capable in her own right. ~rolls eyes~

Terez
11-05-2009, 10:58 PM
~rolls eyes~
We have an emote for that you know.

Kurtz
11-05-2009, 10:59 PM
I used to like Gawyn, but in this book, he was just annoying. Clearly Egwene is a precious snowflake who will melt at any authority or challenge. He must rush in and save her. God forbid she be capable in her own right. ~rolls eyes~

Yeh that was annoying, but don't forget every man's fantasy of rescuing the damsel in distress.

The last time Gawyn saw Egwene she was remarkably different.

Personally I think she's gone too far now. Demanding the same from Gawyn as she does from Siuan is destined to failure, and I hope he can show her that

Kurtz
11-05-2009, 11:00 PM
We have an emote for that you know.

Our smilies are rubbish. Where's the lols :(

Belazamon
11-05-2009, 11:01 PM
We have an emote for that you know.
~rolls eyes~

Birgitte
11-05-2009, 11:07 PM
lol... Typing it out is much more satisfying.

Matoyak
11-05-2009, 11:25 PM
don't forget every man's fantasy of rescuing the damsel in distress.Wait, this one is mandatory? Damn. Need to reread the mancode again, I guess...

Kurtz
11-05-2009, 11:27 PM
Wait, this one is mandatory? Damn. Need to reread the mancode again, I guess...

That one is pure instinct.

I'm watching you now http://www.thetoppaforum.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/hmm.gif

Belazamon
11-05-2009, 11:59 PM
I'm watching you now http://www.thetoppaforum.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/hmm.gif
For the record, I freakin' love that smiley.

nameless
11-06-2009, 01:25 AM
[QUOTE=Ozymandias]That single bubble of evil took up about 3 chapters (if not more) of setting up. That makes it a major plot point. All the monsters, and the bugs... those are things that happen, and demonstrate that the Pattern is getting weaker and the DO stronger.

BS made a relatively large portion of the book resolve around this. And btw, this had nothing to do with Verin, so it can't even be considered advancing that plot point. I'm just upset that BS took a great character and instead of going somewhere with him, as he does have some very important stuff to take care of, he decided to pander to the whole "Twilight" crowd and make a zombie story. There are very few things in these books that three chapters are spent on that don't become a story arc. And somehow I doubt this every comes back into focus as an important moment.
QUOTE]

BS mentioned in one of the Q+A sessions that the Hinderstrap arc was there because it's meant as the seed for one of our contemporary myths, the same way the moon landing was the seed for 3rd Age myths. Does anyone have any idea which myth he's talking about? I'm not an expert on ancient Norse storytelling or anything, but I think I'd have heard at least once if Odin and Loki had ever gone to a town that went batsh*t crazy at sundown, killed each other, then came back to life at sunrise.

Terez
11-06-2009, 02:39 AM
Contemporary myths would mean current, right? Zombie attack!

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 04:38 AM
(Name me one book where Gawyn did anything more than stand around in the background).TDR. Then Gawyn stood in the background while getting soundly trashed by Mat. That was definitely his best moment.

But while he's being unimportant, he's also being a stupid, egotistical, sexist (even by medieval standards) asshole.But that's why Egwene loves him. Haven't you figured that out, yet? She broke up with Rand specifically because he was insufficiently sexist, and he was deficient in the stupidity department too.

Terez
11-06-2009, 04:51 AM
Rand, not sufficiently sexist? The guy who, before he was influenced by the True Power, wouldn't even kill a female Forsaken? Who won't let Maidens fight for him unless they beat him into submission? That's hilarious! lol...and Egwene is giving Gawyn the cold shoulder at the moment for his sexism, as it were...

Ishara
11-06-2009, 08:31 AM
That single bubble of evil took up about 3 chapters (if not more) of setting up. That makes it a major plot point. All the monsters, and the bugs... those are things that happen, and demonstrate that the Pattern is getting weaker and the DO stronger.

Oh, okay! So dresses, baths and swordfights are also major plot points? Please Ozy. We've had longer chapters about nothing before. As Sekker has mentioned, these chapters achieved theree things. And that's more than a bath ever did for us.

BS made a relatively large portion of the book resolve around this. And btw, this had nothing to do with Verin, so it can't even be considered advancing that plot point. I'm just upset that BS took a great character and instead of going somewhere with him, as he does have some very important stuff to take care of, he decided to pander to the whole "Twilight" crowd and make a zombie story. There are very few things in these books that three chapters are spent on that don't become a story arc. And somehow I doubt this every comes back into focus as an important moment.

Oh? So without Hinderstap, would Mat have sent scounts into the next village? Would Verin have heard about/ seen the scounts and come up into the camp? Would Verin have had a plausible way for being introduced at this stage? I totally resent being refrred to as part of the "Twilight" crowd. That's effing offensive! Not to mention a non-sequitor - what do vampires, even sparkly ones, have to do with zombies and soccer moms?

These chapters were important because without them we couldn't have introduced verin, her stack of letters, and Mat's letter in particular. Honestly, you think this won't come up when Mat gets the Horn back?

It was just a waste of time in a story that Tor and Brandon have already decided is too long. I've never bought into the criticism that RJ was extending the story just to sell more books, but reading that unnecessary, completely gratuitous crap in a story thats already been admitted to be too long to publish in not one, but two books, just really angered me. Cut that out, and a few other scenes like it, and maybe you could fit everything into two bindings instead of making us shell out, and wait, for three.

I'd personally rather see books where we atually have action, resolution and closure than books where we have baths and dresses. I cannot fathom how you saw any part of this book as filler. I really can't. I mean really, it sounds as if you've made up your mind to hate whatever BS wrote (even if he didn't write it).

1Powerslave
11-06-2009, 09:05 AM
Ozy hit the nail on the head with the Mat chapters. They were sucky, sloppy, pointless, filler chapters. Mat, Talmanes and Thom, though he didn't say much, were totally out of character.

Seeker
11-06-2009, 12:21 PM
Thank you, Ishara.

And I would just like to offer Egwene some advice at this point: dump Gawyn. I'm serious. Egwene, you are way too good, way too awesome for this loser.

Gawyn is no one's friend. If Gawyn were an ice cream flavour... he'd be pralines... and dicK!

(The capital k is necessary. Garth makes a clicking noise at the end of the word).

Belazamon
11-06-2009, 08:39 PM
I love how we're now arguing about whether or not we're allowed to like the Mat chapters.

1Powerslave
11-06-2009, 08:45 PM
I love how we're now arguing about whether or not we're allowed to like the Mat chapters.
:)
And where do you stand? I need to know to decide if I like you or not. ;)

Belazamon
11-06-2009, 09:16 PM
:)
And where do you stand? I need to know to decide if I like you or not. ;)
I liked them well enough. Vastly superior to the Perrin chapters. As many other people have said, I particularly enjoyed the intricate backstories. :)

Toss the dice
11-07-2009, 05:36 AM
This I truly hate. BS turned Talmanes into comic relief. The WoT books have previously had entertaining moments, but no real comic relief character. And to use Talmanes for it? Mat has connistently remarked throughout the books how Talmanes has no sense of humor, he is generally blase about everything infact. Really bad move in my opinion.

I agree. Talmanes has always been remarked by Mat as being almost depressed and dour all the time, never smiling, eyes never twinkling of all things, and for some reason I liked him that way, at least in combination with the "rest of his character." He was a great #2 commander in my eyes, and I actually liked his character a lot. Not to mention, at one point (in KoD i think), in Mat's pov he mentions how Talmanes was always grim and serious "but he had his reasons." Which implies (if not outright shouts) that Talmanes is a very grim, serious person and that there is a specific reason for it, and that Mat knows what it is to boot. There is a big difference between someone being outright grim and serious all the time, hardly smiling ever and never laughing...and someone that often has a twinkle to their eye and acts how Talmanes acts in TGS. While I WAS entertained by this new Talmanes (and it's not exactly a travesty by any means), I'm pretty sure the new Talmanes is purely a creation of BS.

I had stated in an earlier post in this thread how I was disappointed by the pointless and "off" Mat sections in TGS. I still am. To be honest, compared with ANY other WoT book that Mat was in, they were utter crap. I'd love to be able to come up with excuses in my head why the Mat parts are NOT crap in TGS, so I would feel better. But that would be a blatant lie, I can't change how I feel and I certainly wasn't pleased (understatement) while I was actually reading them. (while at the same time trying very hard to stay pumped and excited for new Mat material). So know this is my true opinion.

However, I am very pleased to announce that I just finished the rest of the book, and was very surprised at how good it was. Sure, some of it felt "off," but overall it was an awesome read and nothing felt awkward even approaching the Mat level. Thankfully I am really excited for the next book and just pray to god that BS can do a better job with Mat's stuff.

While I may come to appreciate the Mat sections in a reread or two, I doubt it will happen. Some of you may be content pulling a bs story out of your butt on why you "just loved" Mat's new spin. All I know is that while actually reading through all of Mat's material in TGS, I felt bad. I'm not trying to purposely rock the boat with my opinions and criticism of that part of TGS, it's the simple truth. I tried to put a good spin on it myself as I was reading it, and simply couldn't do it. So I won't lie to you.

GonzoTheGreat
11-07-2009, 05:54 AM
Talmanes is not quite as universally dour as many people seem to think.
Daerid and Nalesean were laughing right out, now, and even Talmanes was chuckling, though they tried to pretend it was about something else. Daerid wheezingly interjected some tale about a man falling off a horse whenever he had breath enough, but there was nothing funny in the bits Mat heard.

Mat pulled off his hat long enough to mop his forehead before answering. Nightfall would be a little cooler. But no wine, no ale, no women, and no gambling. Who would be a soldier for choice? "There’s not much I’d say was beyond Aes Sedai." Sliding a finger behind the scarf around his neck, he eased it. One thing about Warders, by what he knew from observing Lan anyway, they never seemed to sweat. "But that? Talmanes, I’d believe you were Aes Sedai first. You aren’t, are you?"
Daerid doubled over the pommel of his saddle laughing, and Nalesean nearly fell off his horse. Talmanes stiffened at first, but finally he grinned. He almost chuckled. The man did not have much sense of humor, but he did have some.

Toss the dice
11-07-2009, 06:49 AM
The first quote merely says that Talmanes is human rather than a COMPLETELY humorless robot.

The second quote has Talmanes actually STIFFENING up at Mat's comment before finally resigning to relaxing and "taking" the joke.

Both of these instances are a far cry from what we read about Talmanes in TGS, who obviously has a great sense of humor and wit to go along with it, it is just not the blatantly open kind such as Mat would display. Talmanes certainly would not stiffen up at Mat's comment made in KoD, his eyes would twinkle and he would say something sarcastic/witty that had humor. Also, the kind of humor/wit combo that Talmanes displays in TGS isn't the type that would take Mat literally months to "get." It seems pretty obvious to me that Talmanes has plenty of humor, in fact he reminds me of myself, and people tend to have no problem determining that I joke around a lot.

While I did enjoy the more detailed interactions between Mat and Talmanes in TGS, the fact remains that Talmanes IS a different person than he was in any of the earlier books.

GonzoTheGreat
11-07-2009, 06:56 AM
Perhaps this is the thing no one noticed in books 4-6?
Now Demandred, who is posing as Roedran, has Compelled Talmanes to acquire a sense of humor, which will lead Mat to laugh at the wrong moment, thus causing Tarmon Gai'don to be lost.

I like it.

Ozymandias
11-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Oh, okay! So dresses, baths and swordfights are also major plot points? Please Ozy. We've had longer chapters about nothing before. As Sekker has mentioned, these chapters achieved theree things. And that's more than a bath ever did for us.

Show me a place where three chapters are describing one dress, one swordfight, or one bath. Sometimes Elayne is in the bath for half a chapter, but ends up having a conversation. And its boring. But its half a chapter. Not three. Please, please don't fall into the trap of assuming that RJs attention to detail is comparable to BS's lack of direction.

Oh? So without Hinderstap, would Mat have sent scounts into the next village? Would Verin have heard about/ seen the scounts and come up into the camp? Would Verin have had a plausible way for being introduced at this stage? I totally resent being refrred to as part of the "Twilight" crowd. That's effing offensive! Not to mention a non-sequitor - what do vampires, even sparkly ones, have to do with zombies and soccer moms?

HAHAHAHA and you think this is plausible? Literally, what the hell is the difference between Mat's scouts riding in and finding her, with or without Hinderstap! They are an army, they always have scouts out! This is what I resent, is your attempts to justify a stupid plot point by saying it advances some other part of the story. If you liked it on its own (dubious) merits, fine. But don't pretend like it played a vital role in introducing Verin. It had literally, nothing to do with it. There are a dozen other plausible ways to get her in the story. Hinderstap didn't explain her trials in finding him. Given that he's already leading an army, it doesn't explain why he's using scouts.

And if you don't want to be associated with the Twilight crowd, don't defend these kinds of gratuitous zombie/vampire stories.

These chapters were important because without them we couldn't have introduced verin, her stack of letters, and Mat's letter in particular. Honestly, you think this won't come up when Mat gets the Horn back?

I think Verin's letter will be important. Your twisting the issue, because Mat meeting Verin is a totally separate event, both in reality and in terms of causality, than the Hinderstap scene. The strongest connection you can draw is "he was nervous from Hinderstap, so he sent out scouts." Is that literally the best BS could come up with to introduce her?

I'd personally rather see books where we atually have action, resolution and closure than books where we have baths and dresses. I cannot fathom how you saw any part of this book as filler. I really can't. I mean really, it sounds as if you've made up your mind to hate whatever BS wrote (even if he didn't write it).

I liked a lot of BS's work in this book. I don't care about action. I care about finishing the plot. RJ was a great author because he paid attention to detail. That isn't filler, thats writing. Putting in gratuitous scenes which do nohing to further character or plot development... thats filler.

nameless
11-07-2009, 01:50 PM
Hinderstrap didn't look anything like a vampire story. The closest thing WoT has to vampires are the Draghkar. If a super-skinny flying man who kisses you to death didn't make you think the books were pandering to the vampire fan club, there's no reason anything in tGS should have.

Kurtz
11-07-2009, 02:20 PM
I love how we're now arguing about whether or not we're allowed to like the Mat chapters.


I'm the opposite. As much as I adore Egwene, Gawyn needs to bin her.

The Trakand Express waits for no woman :cool:

Azure Skeith
11-07-2009, 05:34 PM
I love how we're now arguing about whether or not we're allowed to like the Mat chapters.

I'm the opposite. As much as I adore Egwene, Gawyn needs to bin her.

The Trakand Express waits for no woman :cool:

Heh, wrong quote there Kurtz?

Terez
11-07-2009, 06:07 PM
Probably the whiskey.

Kurtz
11-07-2009, 06:31 PM
Heh, wrong quote there Kurtz?

The Dark One touches the Pattern, quotes appear where they should not be.

Beer and Cider tonight Terez ;)

Azure Skeith
11-07-2009, 09:07 PM
Oh how I wish I had found this place sooner. :D

Lord Bloodpath
11-07-2009, 09:20 PM
IIRC, Trustair was directly north of Hinderstap and therefore further west than Mat had intended to travel originally.

Mat would have deemed it unnecessary to detour there without Hinderstap.

If someone else doesn't produce quotes supporting this, I will later. I'm just being lazy right now.

GonzoTheGreat
11-08-2009, 04:16 AM
Since neither place had been mentioned previously in the series, relocating Trustair a bit in an easterly direction wouldn't have been a problem.
And if any of the locals had noticed, they could have blamed the DO for it. :p

Lord Bloodpath
11-08-2009, 11:48 PM
now you're just being difficult... :p

otoh, I have no good retort for that one.

On the whole, I can't resist the feeling that the Mat chapters should have been done better (except 'Legends,' that was pretty spot-on) but I can't yet say exactly what should have been done differently. I kind of liked Talmanes as a dour straight man. I also kind of like him as a witty guy who plays the straight man most of the time and it's only Mat's increased awareness/perception/wtvr that has him notice this now.

I'm okay with Mat and Tuon pining for each other and only coming to terms with it slowly. At the core of their personalities, they are both honorable liars. Perhaps to themselves most of all (Tuon less than Mat tho.)

Mat's got some serios growing to do and he's doing it. And it's actually a little painful for us, nevermind him. Maybe it's due to BS needing more time or a better handle on RJ's perception of Mat. I think it's extremely possible that BS just tried to mix odin and loki together into a mortal and stuff him into Mat's shoes. I think he still did an okay job, I just hope he improves and starts doing a great job next time.

Also: the idea for Hinderstap was awesome. IDK exactly what myth that was adapted from, but it had enough of an original twist that I loved it. Heck, if Mat or some other important hero did get killed there, they could be an immortal werezombie.... and if it were an AS or Asha'man, they could Travel to wherever they were needed all day and at night become a killing machine (as long as no other good guys were around... :) )

GonzoTheGreat
11-09-2009, 05:11 AM
Just imagine that Masema had ended up in Hinderstap. :p

Come to think of it: if a Hinderstappian is balefired, would he still returned next morning?

JSUCamel
11-09-2009, 06:05 AM
Just imagine that Masema had ended up in Hinderstap. :p

Come to think of it: if a Hinderstappian is balefired, would he still returned next morning?

Hinderstappian? Hinderstappite? Hinderstappan? Hinderstappican? Hinderstaptch? Hinderstap?

hmm. This calls for a question to Brandon.

Brita
11-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Hinderstappian? Hinderstappite? Hinderstappan? Hinderstappican? Hinderstaptch? Hinderstap?

hmm. This calls for a question to Brandon.

lol! I thought the concept for Hinderstap was an interesting idea, it just didn't fit in the WoT world as I know it.

All other bubbles of evil were totally random, chaotic and destructive. This was too....neat and thought out. Perhaps one of them named the dark one and brought his attention there specifically, but otherwise this scenario is too organized to be a bubble of evil imo. It just doesn't fit.

I'm not as vehement about disliking it as Ozy, and certainly I can understand why people enjoyed it, but unless it comes into play a little later and is explained a little more, it is just too disjointed from the rest of the story for me to buy it.

Davian93
11-09-2009, 09:10 AM
I hope Brandon doesn't read this thread and think we're unhappy with his job. He did an amazing job overall on the book. Honestly, for all we know, Hinderstap was RJ's idea so its a bit unfair to criticize him for it.

Brita
11-09-2009, 12:10 PM
I hope Brandon doesn't read this thread and think we're unhappy with his job. He did an amazing job overall on the book. Honestly, for all we know, Hinderstap was RJ's idea so its a bit unfair to criticize him for it.

Oh, I hope not! If this is the only controversy...then that's pretty damn good considering the monumental task at hand.

JSUCamel
11-09-2009, 06:30 PM
Hinderstappanese? Hinderstapani? Hinderstappimo? Hinderstappemite? Hinderstappee? Hinderstapicote?

Leanne
11-09-2009, 07:39 PM
I hope Brandon doesn't read this thread and think we're unhappy with his job. He did an amazing job overall on the book. Honestly, for all we know, Hinderstap was RJ's idea so its a bit unfair to criticize him for it.

If Brandon reads this thread he will think everything is right in the world, Theoryland still doesn't agree and will argue/discuss about anything and everything. :D

ShadowbaneX
11-09-2009, 07:40 PM
If Brandon reads this thread he will think everything is right in the world, Theoryland still doesn't agree and will argue/discuss about anything and everything. :D
hey now, I disagree with that statement and I intend to argue about it!

Leanne
11-09-2009, 07:43 PM
Why skip Galad and Perrin!?



Hopefully we see a bit of it in ToM but it wouldn't make chronological sense unless Brandon went backward in time (something I thought they were trying to get away from).



I felt the need to go back to the original topic. I know, unheard of. Since the book was split as it was, Brandon will need to go back in time in the next book to catch up the other storylines. HE made it clear before the book that there are four major storylines that need to be wrapped up and brought up to the same time. There would be two in each of the first two books.

On a side note, this was brought up at dinner on Friday as well. I specifically asked if we would see the meeting with Perrin and Galad. He said, "You know Perrin and Galad are together, and you will see Perrin and Galad in the next book." The way he said it made me believe we would see it, but of course he wouldn't say it exactly like that.

Lord Bloodpath
11-10-2009, 02:32 PM
everyone knows it's obviously, "Hinderstapper."

I have some vague hope of seeing what led up to the meeting. like, seriously, how does Perrin just all up and decide, "I know.... Let's hook up with the Whitecloaks! Yeah, they're reasonable and friendly-seeming folk :D"

Otoh, I like the idea of limiting the narrative to good stuff, like real plot resolution, drama, battles, and character growth. As opposed to beating the same idea into the ground for the thousandth time from the exact same angle, wrestling with self-doubt over and over and over, picking out dresses, or arguing with each other over past/future occurrences.

I'm sure there was lots of discussion before the meet-up with the Galad and I'm equally sure that any new/interesting points can be visited most entertainingly in a flashback.

So BS's "dodgy" answer probably just means that we don't really need to do the timewarp at all.

GonzoTheGreat
11-11-2009, 04:34 AM
Well, in the meeting between Perrin and Galad, there's going to be a bit where Galad goes "Mom? I thought you were dead."
That might be amusing. As might Faile's reaction be, when she realised that her maid is actually a queen.

lurk
11-11-2009, 09:42 AM
Well, in the meeting between Perrin and Galad, there's going to be a bit where Galad goes "Mom? I thought you were dead."
That might be amusing. As might Faile's reaction be, when she realised that her maid is actually a queen.

Or Faile starts eying Galad like other women in the series do and get into another cat fight with Berelain.

And now Rhuarc is not there to end it :D I say call for some mud too:rolleyes:

Lord Bloodpath
11-11-2009, 01:41 PM
Morgase will definitely be an interesting wrinkle in there. As to Faile, she'll probably just try to ignore Galad's prettiness thinking to herself that she likes her men more rugged or something.