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Tamyrlin
10-29-2009, 12:09 AM
General Prediction: Verin (http://www.theoryland.com/predictions.php?func=3&rec=44) is Black Ajah

Dvashun 1998-07-29
Zugzwane 2000-11-16
Tristin 2005-10-25
Herid Fel 2006-07-11

Honorable Mention: Chang 2008-05-19

Verin has gone to hunt the black Ajah and will lead the purge against them, unfortunately sacrificing herself. This is the plan she has had for so long.

Neilbert
10-29-2009, 01:12 AM
I honestly think those should be swapped. The Honorable Mention is much closer to the truth.

Terez
10-29-2009, 01:17 AM
haha, I had the exact same thought, Neil.

FelixPax
10-29-2009, 01:24 AM
I'd give them their due. :)

Few forum writers supported the view Verin that was Black Ajah, let alone this outcome.
Much hinted at this very outcome however, which these few individual predicted correctly.

Tamyrlin
10-29-2009, 01:50 AM
I'll swap them.

FelixPax
10-29-2009, 01:56 AM
I'll swap them.

Verin only learned of the Black Ajah after being forced to join the organization or die. Her plan to hunt was created after becoming a Black Ajah.

The wording given, can imply Verin decided to hunt the BA before becoming one herself strangely.

WinespringBrother
10-29-2009, 07:28 AM
Verin only learned of the Black Ajah after being forced to join the organization or die. Her plan to hunt was created after becoming a Black Ajah.

The wording given, can imply Verin decided to hunt the BA before becoming one herself strangely.

Didn't her wording to Egwene inply that she implied that she wanted to be Black Ajah, but tried to change her mind at the last minute? RJ has stated that the recruitment for Black Ajah is subtle, looking for like-minded folks, or letting new recruits look for Black sisters (which it sounds like the path that Verin took) and that from those meetings, the person signs up or is killed.

Sarevok
10-29-2009, 12:08 PM
It sounded to me like she, while trying to study themm, had successfully made contact with the Black Ajah. Then, she suddenly found herself having to face the question of joining them of die.

Davian93
10-29-2009, 12:10 PM
It sounded to me like she, while trying to study themm, had successfully made contact with the Black Ajah. Then, she suddenly found herself having to face the question of joining them of die.

That was the impression I got as well.

Mort
10-29-2009, 12:12 PM
It sounded to me like she, while trying to study themm, had successfully made contact with the Black Ajah. Then, she suddenly found herself having to face the question of joining them of die.

Dito.

I must say, pretty quick on her feet, to be offered to join the BA or die. How long time do you have to think on that? 10 second? 20? :) Any bad reaction to that question and she would have been killed instantly. One icy lady I say. She is right up there with Snape in Harry Potter. Made the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good.

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 06:50 PM
I always knew she could lie, I somewhat took this line of thought after Suiane and Leanne lost their agelessness...I mean she HAD to be bound, nbut I KNEW she was a good guy

Crispin's Crispian
11-01-2009, 12:56 PM
I always knew she could lie, I somewhat took this line of thought after Suiane and Leanne lost their agelessness...I mean she HAD to be bound, nbut I KNEW she was a good guy
Are we also to believe, then, that joining the BA was the mistake she made 70 years ago? I mean, that seems obvious now, right?

Zaela Sedai
11-01-2009, 06:35 PM
I think she said she made a mistake and that caused her not to have a real choice....but either way....

DeiwosTheSkyGod
11-01-2009, 06:40 PM
Yeah, I think the mistake 70 years ago was slipping up and being forced to join the BA in the first place.

GonzoTheGreat
11-02-2009, 08:57 AM
I must say, pretty quick on her feet, to be offered to join the BA or die.I don't think the choice was actually spelled out like that. At least, I think even the BA is sensible enough to leave AS room to hang themselves if that's what they want.
So what happened is:

Verin was happily studying the BA.
Eventually the BA noticed her interest.
They said to her: "Wanna join our club?"
And she said: "Yeah, sure, why not, you have cool table cloths over your heads during your meetings."

Of course, if she hadn't joined, they would have killed her, but there was no necessity to spell that out. That is just how it works with all those secret societies, whether they're the BA, the Illuminati, the IRS or the Sisters of Silence.

Brita
11-02-2009, 10:37 AM
I have a question:

Can Aes Sedai lie on paper? Will the oath allow them to write out a lie?

I wonder this because similarly, can the Darkfriend oath allow Verin to write all the DO secrets down with the intent to betray him? Seems like a huge loophole in the Do's oath of non-betrayal.

Sarevok
11-02-2009, 10:47 AM
I have a question:

Can Aes Sedai lie on paper? Will the oath allow them to write out a lie?

I'm guessing this, again, depends on the interpretation of the oaths by the individual Aes Sedai.

WinespringBrother
11-02-2009, 10:56 AM
I have a question:

Can Aes Sedai lie on paper? Will the oath allow them to write out a lie?

I wonder this because similarly, can the Darkfriend oath allow Verin to write all the DO secrets down with the intent to betray him? Seems like a huge loophole in the Do's oath of non-betrayal.

I'm pretty sure RJ said in an Q&A that Aes Sedai cannot lie on paper any more than when speaking.

Davian93
11-02-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm pretty sure RJ said in an Q&A that Aes Sedai cannot lie on paper any more than when speaking.

That is accurate. Though Moiraine confirmed it to Rand in tFoH concerning Alviarin's letter.

GonzoTheGreat
11-02-2009, 11:07 AM
That is accurate. Though Moiraine confirmed it to Rand in tFoH concerning Alviarin's letter.Yeah, but if Moiraine is BA, that's not very reliable.

Davian93
11-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Yeah, but if Moiraine is BA, that's not very reliable.

Riiigghhhttttt.

Mort
11-02-2009, 11:26 AM
I have a question:

Can Aes Sedai lie on paper? Will the oath allow them to write out a lie?


No they can't. At least if we take Moiraine's word on it.

“This doesn’t sound like Alviarin at all.”
“It is her hand,” Moiraine said. “What do you make of it, Rand?”
“I think there’s a rift in the Tower, whether Elaida knows it or not. I assume an Aes Sedai can’t write a
lie more easily than she can speak one?” He did not wait for her nod.

WinespringBrother
11-02-2009, 11:44 AM
If you want to be picky, Rand's question was ambiguous, and Moiraine didn't verbally answer. But the fact remains, you can't lie on paper when you are bound by the First Oath.

Brita
11-02-2009, 12:03 PM
So it seems odd that the DO's oath would allow Verin to write a journal with the intent to betray him, does it not?

It would seem to be the similar idea that an AS cannot write something on paper with the intent to lie.

Maybe a stretch, but just a thought. Because then any ol' darkfriend could write all sorts of betraying information and leave it somewhere...or give it to a friend in a sealed letter to open in ten days....

jason wolfbrother
11-02-2009, 12:15 PM
Their intentions are irrelevant. Verin intended to betray the DO from day one. the wording of the oath is very specific and she followed it to the letter.

TGS Ch. 39 A Visit From Verin Sedai
" 'I swear not to betray the Great Loard, to keep my secrets until the hour of my death' That was what I promised. Do you see?"

There is no prohibition about writing down what she knows. Why should anyone care? It's not like she can betray them right? ;) Not until the hour of her death. the DO wouldn't suspect she would betray him. Verin outsmarted him.