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Sodas
10-29-2009, 02:31 AM
I'm sorry. I know the Dark One knows, but he had time to reveal that to Demandred in LOC. So why do we believe Asmodean is going to suddenly be enough of a conversation starter for the Dark One to finally reveal it? Sorry, but no. Graendal definately didn't kill Asmodean. Put her next to Sammael as disqualified.

Our resident Graendal supporters : AbbeyRoad, Belazamon, The Black Wind, tworiverswoman, Gonzo, Mort, Davian93, WinespringBrother, jason wolfbrother, Wunderwaffe
4Alethinos, FelixPax.

The Black Wind
10-29-2009, 02:39 AM
Well it was either Graendal or slayer. Although I was hopeful Graendal's deed would be revealed in tGS we didn't get any face time with her. There is a good chance it'll be revealed through a Moridin POV or a Graendal POV (I'm still not entirely convinced she is dead). The other option is through a Perrin vs slayer showdown.

Terez
10-29-2009, 02:55 AM
I'm sorry. I know the Dark One knows, but he had time to reveal that to Demandred in LOC.
What has time got to do with anything?

Sodas
10-29-2009, 02:58 AM
time = opportunity

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:00 AM
Why would he want to tell Demandred though? I mean...he had plenty of time to tell Demandred that Rand killed Rahvin. But since he didn't, then obviously Rand didn't kill him. In fact, since the Dark One had plenty of time to tell him who killed Asmodean, and didn't, then obviously no one killed him. He just died as a direct result of being twisted by his weakness...

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:05 AM
I don't assume the Dark One wants to tell Demandred everything. Maybe he wanted to see Demandred's reaction.

But that still begs the question why would the Dark One reveal Asmodean's killer to anyone else? And why, just at TG?

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:08 AM
He would reveal it to Moridin because Moridin is Nae'blis, and Shaidar Haran likely knows it by default.

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:14 AM
So that is the one loophole that the Graendal faction will have to hang onto until the next book, when it all ends?

Fine. I can last another couple years before it's over for that theory as well.

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:15 AM
Yup, that be their loophole. Much as I would love for that theory to be put to rest.

FelixPax
10-29-2009, 03:20 AM
I know the Dark One knows, but he had time to reveal that to Demandred in LOC.

How would the Dark One know, if Asmodean's killer was say balefired? Where do temporarily "paused" individuals go?

On a temporary all expenses paid vacation to Hawaii? ;)

Semirhage and Graendal both saw it, one from the True Power and the other Saidin. Would the end effect be the same, or not?

The Black Wind
10-29-2009, 03:25 AM
Yup, that be their loophole. Much as I would love for that theory to be put to rest.

That or the fact that Graendal is potentially still alive.


~gets into defensive stance~


It's been suggested :o

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:27 AM
How would the Dark One know, if Asmodean's killer was say balefired?

The memories of the killer would remain. So if that person told the Dark One, directly or indirectly, it wouldn't be forgotten.

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:29 AM
That or the fact that Graendal is potentially still alive.


~gets into defensive stance~


It's been suggested :o
Yeah, there's that too. Some argue she used Compulsion that would dissolve on purpose....but at the exact moment he balefired the building? Hard to argue, I think.

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:36 AM
Let me put it this way,

She has as much chance as Osan'gar to be alive. And how many people argue that anymore? Exactly.

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:41 AM
Well...we actually SAW him die, really. Some might say he gated away at the last second or something, but with Graendal, we couldn't see her at all.

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:47 AM
And we saw the compulsion stop.

Either way, the concept is they had just enough time to get away. But they didn't.

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:49 AM
Well, the difference is that Graendal had reason to suspect she was being targeted - Osan'gar knew he was in danger, but he had pretty much no choice but to try to carry out his plan at Shadar Logoth, and he definitely didn't see Elza coming. Graendal had no incentive to stay once she was tipped off.

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:52 AM
Well, the difference is that Graendal had reason to suspect she was being targeted - Osan'gar knew he was in danger, but he had pretty much no choice but to try to carry out his plan at Shadar Logoth, and he definitely didn't see Elza coming. Graendal had no incentive to stay once she was tipped off.

If she Traveled, she wouldn't have an incentive to keep the compulsion up either. If anything, she should have tied it off somehow to cover her escape.

But she didn't.

Terez
10-29-2009, 03:53 AM
If she Traveled, she wouldn't have an incentive to keep the compulsion up either. If anything, she should have tied it off somehow.
She would have wanted Rand to think that she was dead, so he wouldn't come after her.

Sodas
10-29-2009, 03:54 AM
I understand the reasoing, but how could she manage the timing of it all thousands of miles away? I don't think she could have.

Terez
10-29-2009, 04:01 AM
Yeah, like I said, it's hard to argue. But I bet some people will do it anyway. :D

WinespringBrother
10-29-2009, 07:24 AM
While we are waiting to find the clue for Asmodean's killer, we can note there were clues that Rand isn't Graendal's killer (yet) :p though they are more due to a lack of evidence.

1) No body. (Yeah, I know that doesn't mean that Asmodean is alive also. Or Sammael.)

2) It's not like Nynaeve really read the compulsion weave and said, "Yeah, that's Graendal's compulsion work. Note the stitching here on the frontal lobe, connecting to the spine." or whatever.

3) Maybe we can doubt that Graendal survived, but only the Dark One knows for sure!

4) We can always ask Brandon straight out, he may answer if he wants to put Graendal out to pasture once and for all. He may not see the convoluted ways we can keep her alive LOL

Davian93
10-29-2009, 07:38 AM
Yeah, there's that too. Some argue she used Compulsion that would dissolve on purpose....but at the exact moment he balefired the building? Hard to argue, I think.

I wouldn't put it past her. Her death was too "easy". Why build her up for 12 books and have her die like that?


EDIT: I'm starting a Faction on this matter in a few weeks (once everyone has read the book) that will state "Graendal Survived" The Creed will be something along the lines of "We believe that Graendal somehow survived Rand's balefire attack in Arad Doman...etc etc"

Mort
10-29-2009, 08:37 AM
Utterly superb book! Probably one of the best so far actually. I enjoyed it alot! The negative I have is few Mat chapters but it was awesome even without him ;)
The Perrin chapters were, as they often are, boring :(

I do believe that Graendal is dead now. Even though it seemed she had more to do, like the order he got from Moridin about making Rands life miserable, I think she failed and are now dead. It's too bad since she, apart from Moridin and Demandred, have been the only one who have been interesting of late of the Forsaken. Maybe just because of that reason, we'll actually see her again, but I doubt it.

Belazamon
10-29-2009, 07:08 PM
I understand the reasoing, but how could she manage the timing of it all thousands of miles away? I don't think she could have.
The easiest way would be to have someone else do it, obviously. That person was the one who got balefired. :D

Sadly, I don't really believe Graendal survived. I'm pretty well resigned to another crappy Sammael-esque death in this case.

Belazamon
10-29-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm sorry. I know the Dark One knows, but he had time to reveal that to Demandred in LOC. So why do we believe Asmodean is going to suddenly be enough of a conversation starter for the Dark One to finally reveal it? Sorry, but no. Graendal definately didn't kill Asmodean. Put her next to Sammael as disqualified.
Be careful, you're starting to sound like Terez when you say stuff like "this is a fact now." ;)

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 08:07 PM
/raise ~resident Graendal supporter~ /sits down

Ivhon
10-29-2009, 08:21 PM
I understand the reasoing, but how could she manage the timing of it all thousands of miles away? I don't think she could have.

It would be pretty easy to tell when any of the ~200 folks at her fortress ceased to exist. Could have timed it with that.

Im not satisfied with the Graendal death at all. I will be pretty disappointed if she is actually dead at this point.

Ieyasu
10-29-2009, 08:25 PM
It would be pretty easy to tell when any of the ~200 folks at her fortress ceased to exist. Could have timed it with that.

Im not satisfied with the Graendal death at all. I will be pretty disappointed if she is actually dead at this point.

I think it is one of my favorite Forsaken death's ever.

Rand using a One Power tactical nuke to utterly annihilate her... pure win!

Ivhon
10-29-2009, 08:30 PM
I think it is one of my favorite Forsaken death's ever.

Rand using a One Power tactical nuke to utterly annihilate her... pure win!

From a distance? No confrontation? No PoV? After the fairly substantial character buildup in the Prologue?

Nah...if she's dead its a deus ex machina type of dropping a plotline.

Ieyasu
10-29-2009, 08:32 PM
From a distance? No confrontation? No PoV? After the fairly substantial character buildup in the Prologue?

Nah...if she's dead its a deus ex machina type of dropping a plotline.

No way, it is Rand learning that you dont give your enemies a chance. You dont fight them fair, you sneak up and drop a effin nuke on them when they least expect it! or sit down at a table and punch em in the face as he said lol

It was pure win to me. I absolutely loved Rand doing this. One of the best Chosen death's in the series, for me.

Davian93
10-29-2009, 08:34 PM
Or it was a horrible blunder that Moridin goaded him into with his balefire talk. He ripped the Pattern a new one with that Balefire stream.

Ivhon
10-29-2009, 08:35 PM
No way, it is Rand learning that you dont give your enemies a chance. You dont fight them fair, you sneak up and drop a effin nuke on them when they least expect it! or sit down at a table and punch em in the face as he said lol

It was pure win to me. I absolutely loved Rand doing this. One of the best Chosen death's in the series, for me.

The visual is nice, I grant.

But we haven't seen her DO anything other than argue with Sammael. All we KNOW that she can even do is weave heavy Compulsion. Moghedien gets to do more than that and nobody respects her. Moridin gives a fairly substantial nod to Graendal in the Prologue. Why? If shes just gonna go down without a fight...

Ieyasu
10-29-2009, 08:49 PM
The visual is nice, I grant.

But we haven't seen her DO anything other than argue with Sammael. All we KNOW that she can even do is weave heavy Compulsion. Moghedien gets to do more than that and nobody respects her. Moridin gives a fairly substantial nod to Graendal in the Prologue. Why? If shes just gonna go down without a fight...

That depends on what you mean by seeing her DO things.

She has successfully kept an entire region in total chaos. I view her as one of the more intelligent and effective of the Chosen. She was never a field commander who DID things on battlefields like many of the other Chosen, her work has always been more subtle and less direct than open warfare. In the War of Power no one saw her DO anything, but none the less:


While not a military commander in the field during the war, Graendal apparently was responsible for a number of significant gains and for a variety of successful subversion efforts. One source says: "Graendal conquered territories as surely as any of the Shadow's generals, but her battlegrounds were her enemies' minds."

Jokeslayer
10-29-2009, 09:58 PM
Or it was a horrible blunder that Moridin goaded him into with his balefire talk. He ripped the Pattern a new one with that Balefire stream.

This is close to the way I look at it. it's also a symbol of the changes in Rand in this book, of him not caring about anything or feeling anything.

Ivhon
10-29-2009, 11:15 PM
That depends on what you mean by seeing her DO things.

She has successfully kept an entire region in total chaos. I view her as one of the more intelligent and effective of the Chosen. She was never a field commander who DID things on battlefields like many of the other Chosen, her work has always been more subtle and less direct than open warfare. In the War of Power no one saw her DO anything, but none the less:

Yeah. She has kept a backward region that we as readers have no attachment to chaotic. Compare to Ishy, Rahvin, Mesaana and likely Demandred.

And what have we seen of her vaunted mental prowess? Some mind games with Sammael that she did not clearly dominate and the aforementioned heavy compulsion. What have we seen that would give Moridin such a high opinion of her? Supposedly...

I just want to see more of her. Seems like that arc just ended without sufficient resolution.

FelixPax
10-30-2009, 12:59 AM
That or the fact that Graendal is potentially still alive.

Osan'gar might be alive at a hill close to the former Shadar Logoth, too. :eek:

You know who, was balefired in Arad Doman by Rand: Elza
Who did Elza kill? But Osan'gar himself during the Cleansing of the Taint.

Elza though was balefired with the "True Power", whereas good old Graendal was balefired with the huge streams of "One Power".

No wonder Rand can't give Cadsuane a clear answer how many Forsaken at left alive....


Or it was a horrible blunder that Moridin goaded him into with his balefire talk. He ripped the Pattern a new one with that Balefire stream.

True, who would Moridin trust more Semirhage or Osan'gar? Moridin knew that Domination bracket required two channelers, and I'd bet he knew Elza kill that one time Asha'man, err Osan'gar too. If I was Moridin, it's a win-win setup, either Rand feels pain at hurting/killing Min; or Rand uses the True Power to kill Semirhage and Elza whereupon Moridin gains the serves of Osan'gar again instead of Semirhage's.

Belazamon
10-30-2009, 01:00 AM
Felix, I hope this isn't going to be your new "Verin is EEEEvil" for the next year. ;)

FelixPax
10-30-2009, 01:23 AM
Felix, I hope this isn't going to be your new "Verin is EEEEvil" for the next year. ;)

Hmm..what makes you think that?

Two for Two, kill two, bring two back live?

Verin's a classic!


I guess Egwene could try to find that Tea Tree on one of the Sea Folk islands to balefire to bring Verin Sedai, back alive again? Chuckles...oh, the paradoxes.

FelixPax
10-30-2009, 01:31 AM
The Creed will be something along the lines of "We believe that Graendal somehow survived Rand's balefire attack in Arad Doman...etc etc"

How about a counter faction of "Two for Two"?
"We believe Asmodean, Osan'gar will live once again, when Graendal, Elza each were removed from the Pattern by balefire"?


Oddly enough, it was the Lord of the Board Tam's comments about Asmodean that got me thinking about the whole balefire derivative effects upon the storyline. The iffy part of the "Two for Two" faction, I think would be along the lines of varying mechanisms of balefire powered by either One Power or True Power. Since the Dark One, powers the True Power would that impact Osan'gar outcome? Would less True Power balefire be needed to effect time-space interactions?

Sodas
10-30-2009, 02:09 AM
Yeah. She has kept a backward region that we as readers have no attachment to chaotic. Compare to Ishy, Rahvin, Mesaana and likely Demandred.

And what have we seen of her vaunted mental prowess? Some mind games with Sammael that she did not clearly dominate and the aforementioned heavy compulsion. What have we seen that would give Moridin such a high opinion of her? Supposedly...

I just want to see more of her. Seems like that arc just ended without sufficient resolution.

You sound like GRRM, but a GRRM who loves the bad guys more.

Ivhon
10-30-2009, 08:31 AM
You sound like GRRM, but a GRRM who loves the bad guys more.

Bad guys are always more interesting :)

Tamyrlin
10-30-2009, 12:09 PM
It would be late joining this party, but we'll still take you.

Faction:Coalition against Greandal
http://www.theoryland.com/factions.php?func=4&rec=157

Davian93
10-30-2009, 12:15 PM
It would be late joining this party, but we'll still take you.

Faction:Coalition against Greandal
http://www.theoryland.com/factions.php?func=4&rec=157

Speaking of Factions, when is it okay to start making post-TGS factions?

Wunderwaffe
10-30-2009, 01:47 PM
As entertaining of a thought as it no doubt is, I don't think that the amount of balefire Rand used on Graendal would be able to undo her actions any further than an hour or two. Months is certainly out of the question. Even if she was the individual responsible for Asmodean's death, her demise via the Choedan Kal balefire stream wouldn't undo this event.

Davian93
10-30-2009, 01:54 PM
As entertaining of a thought as it no doubt is, I don't think that the amount of balefire Rand used on Graendal would be able to undo her actions any further than an hour or two. Months is certainly out of the question. Even if she was the individual responsible for Asmodean's death, her demise via the Choedan Kal balefire stream wouldn't undo this event.

Well, completely unaided, Rand was able to erase about 30 minutes when he took out Rahvin. With the most powerful sa'angreal in creation, I'm guessing he could push that back at least to the range of several days to even weeks. Not months though...not far enough back to effect Asmo's death.

Weird Harold
10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
As entertaining of a thought as it no doubt is, I don't think that the amount of balefire Rand used on Graendal would be able to undo her actions any further than an hour or two. Months is certainly out of the question. Even if she was the individual responsible for Asmodean's death, her demise via the Choedan Kal balefire stream wouldn't undo this event.
I think there's a good chance that Balefire Powered by thr Choedan Kal was the chosen method of dealing with Greandal to stifle all the suggestions by the tinfoil turban brigade to balefire Lanfear back to Meirin's mother's virginity.

Clearly we now have concrete evidence that there simply isn't enough power to go back that far. :D

FelixPax
10-30-2009, 05:43 PM
Well, completely unaided, Rand was able to erase about 30 minutes when he took out Rahvin. With the most powerful sa'angreal in creation, I'm guessing he could push that back at least to the range of several days to even weeks. Not months though...not far enough back to effect Asmo's death.

Let's see a sa'angreal which is so powerful to be able to destroy the whole Pattern itself, according to many of the Chosen themselves and the Dragon Reborn; can not simply remove from the Pattern the actions of one Chosen one or two years back in time?

Come on, that argument is a straw man. (Edit)--> Straw man limitation of less than "months" backwards in time.


Edit: I do believe Asmodean could be alive, as the Sa'angreal would be powerful enough to go backwards years and years in time. Big assumption here is that Graendal killed Asmodean, in the first place.

Ivhon
10-30-2009, 05:49 PM
Let's see a sa'angreal which is so powerful to be able to destroy the whole Pattern itself, according to many of the Chosen themselves and the Dragon Reborn; can not simply remove from the Pattern the actions of one Chosen one or two years back in time?

Come on, that argument is a straw man.

I don't think it is straw man. CK would have to amplify the amount of Power Rand used against Rhavin by roughly half a million to take it back 2 years. Its just not that strong.

It would be able to destroy the pattern by a full strength strike against a major city or 3.

FelixPax
10-30-2009, 05:50 PM
It would be late joining this party, but we'll still take you.

Faction:Coalition against Greandal
http://www.theoryland.com/factions.php?func=4&rec=157

Tam, why the requirement of Compulsion in that faction rather than say Guidance?

The Black Ajah only guided Elaida, why not Alanna too? Compulsion was not needed with Alanna when her already expressed lots of interest in those three boys. Alanna was easily open to guidance, she didn't need to be forced to bond the boys, particular Rand.

Sodas
10-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Let's see a sa'angreal which is so powerful to be able to destroy the whole Pattern itself, according to many of the Chosen themselves and the Dragon Reborn; can not simply remove from the Pattern the actions of one Chosen one or two years back in time?

Come on, that argument is a straw man.

It had the power to do that.

But Rand says he only used it at that level twice before ... to create Dragonmount and when he Cleansed Saidin.

When he nuked Graendal is not mentioned.

Jokeslayer
10-30-2009, 06:21 PM
Balefire confuses the hell out of me, but if we could find an action known to have been taken by Graendal between the end of TFoH and her death, and then use something from TGS after her death to prove that event still happened, we'd be able to prove Asmo is still dead, right?

Sodas
10-30-2009, 06:33 PM
Bad guys are always more interesting :)

I agree whole heartedly.

I fully expect my favorite, Mazrim Taim, to die in the next book.

Tamyrlin
10-30-2009, 06:53 PM
Tam, why the requirement of Compulsion in that faction rather than say Guidance?

The Black Ajah only guided Elaida, why not Alanna too? Compulsion was not needed with Alanna when her already expressed lots of interest in those three boys. Alanna was easily open to guidance, she didn't need to be forced to bond the boys, particular Rand.
I disagree that she didn't need to be forced. To bond someone against their will, while not unheard of, is definitely something looked down upon in Aes Sedai culture, and in this case to bond the Dragon Reborn...I don't think it is something that Verin simply talks someone into. It's different when you guide someone with power, like the Amyrlin, to enact something or to make a decision, because she assumes some mantle of authority. In this case, I think it would take a whole hell of a lot of presumption on Alanna's part about her authority and power and place for her to make such a decision even with guidance and her recent loss of her warder.

Oce you add Verin's knowledge and history wth compulsion, and the fact that she spent a long time with Alanna who was in a difficult emotional state with the loss of her warder, it seems much more likely that she wove in a little push to make sure.

I know - it's specific - so, I may not get as many to adhere to the faction, but what fun is it to make the more generic faction. :)

Davian93
10-30-2009, 10:19 PM
Let's see a sa'angreal which is so powerful to be able to destroy the whole Pattern itself, according to many of the Chosen themselves and the Dragon Reborn; can not simply remove from the Pattern the actions of one Chosen one or two years back in time?

Come on, that argument is a straw man. (Edit)--> Straw man limitation of less than "months" backwards in time.


Edit: I do believe Asmodean could be alive, as the Sa'angreal would be powerful enough to go backwards years and years in time. Big assumption here is that Graendal killed Asmodean, in the first place.

No, again you make something up. One CK is really strong. TOGETHER, they MIGHT crack the World or challenge the DO...per Lanfear. Either way, its not a strawman, its reality. As others have said, it would take a far greater magnification than we've seen for it to even come close to what is required. There is a difference between destroying the world or melting a continent (both said to be possibilities) and Destroying the Pattern which is far greater than just that world.

jason wolfbrother
10-31-2009, 05:02 AM
I agree that Graendal is probably dead. I don't think she is coming back. I'm disappointed in her "death" but Rand's logic was perfect.

That being said her death doesn't prove her innocence of Asmodean's death. Why would it? Just because she is dead? So? How does her death exonerate her exactly?

Belazamon
10-31-2009, 11:55 AM
I agree that Graendal is probably dead. I don't think she is coming back. I'm disappointed in her "death" but Rand's logic was perfect.

That being said her death doesn't prove her innocence of Asmodean's death. Why would it? Just because she is dead? So? How does her death exonerate her exactly?
It doesn't, really. I think a lot of people just assume that the killer will be revealed in their own PoV, and since she's "dead," she won't have any more PoVs. ;)

1Powerslave
10-31-2009, 12:57 PM
Before dinner I just have time to say. Graendal's death. Perfect! I agree totally with Ieyasu. And Rand even explained it in detail to Nynaeve. Graendal is very clever, more clever than he or LTT. But LTT at least knew that, and a way to beat her in spite of that. It was awesome. :D

Crispin's Crispian
11-01-2009, 12:54 PM
Before dinner I just have time to say. Graendal's death. Perfect! I agree totally with Ieyasu. And Rand even explained it in detail to Nynaeve. Graendal is very clever, more clever than he or LTT. But LTT at least knew that, and a way to beat her in spite of that. It was awesome. :D
I agree for the most part. I also agree with Ivhon that her buildup in the Prologue makes this one suck.

The only redemption possible for that is that she had set plans in motion that will be executed in the coming books. After her appearance in the Prologue, we didn't see her again and we have no idea what she was doing. As such, I fully expect some Compelled people to show up and do bad stuff, or for something important to collapse due to Graendal's machinations.

1Powerslave
11-01-2009, 04:08 PM
I agree for the most part. I also agree with Ivhon that her buildup in the Prologue makes this one suck.

The only redemption possible for that is that she had set plans in motion that will be executed in the coming books. After her appearance in the Prologue, we didn't see her again and we have no idea what she was doing. As such, I fully expect some Compelled people to show up and do bad stuff, or for something important to collapse due to Graendal's machinations.
For Rand to know pain of heart, she has to get to those close to him, or force him to do something he wouldn't want. Sure, she can have aimed arrows in the form of compelled people, but they can only do so much. They are very easily detected in their compelled state. Maybe she can manage to make sleeper agents though, that springs into action on a certain event happening. See Battlestar Galactica.

I think many feel like they've been let down by the build up around Graendal. But in a way we were warned that Graendal wouldn't be able to make Rand feel pain of heart. The girls are very protected by prophecies, we recognised that right away. Instead it was Semirhage that made him feel pain of heart, and we got a refreshing way of getting rid of two forsaken. Not the usual head on battle. I like that. But I know I could've been disappointed if I felt that we were led in one way and then without motivation things suddendly turned away from that.

WinespringBrother
11-02-2009, 10:25 AM
I didn't mind how Graendal died (if she did). It was over fairly quickly once Rand got his intel (same as with Rahvin following Morgase's supposed death) as opposed to the 2 book build-up with Sammael that just dragged on. And he didn't do something foolish like gating in with an army.

I guess the irony is that she (possibly) died in her "box" like she manipulated Sammael into doing.

FelixPax
11-02-2009, 06:10 PM
I disagree that she didn't need to be forced. To bond someone against their will, while not unheard of, is definitely something looked down upon in Aes Sedai culture, and in this case to bond the Dragon Reborn...I don't think it is something that Verin simply talks someone into.

Min had a vision which said that Alanna was in Rand's hand, a willing following of the Dragon Reborn in Cairhien. Min had a separate different vision about those Aes Sedai who were subject to Verin's compulsion in Cairhien. That's one hint that Alanna was never subject to compulsion. Another hint is Verin's own words, of not using Compulsion on sisters with Warders, if given a choice. Well, Alanna had two warders with her in Fal Dara, and two warders in Two Rivers until one of them was killed. Verin never would of been able to have a chance at Compulsion with Alanna, as her warders would of noticed it immediately.

A similar situation occurred with one the Black Ajah captured by the Black Ajah hunters in Tar Valon, when a sister was forced to use an Oath Rod. That sister had a warder, and after his sister was exposed as a BA, he killed himself.

Alanna had a belief that the Dragon Reborn had to be "guided" into battle at T'G similar to what Moiraine had at one time in the story. (Who explained this belief to Alanna, likely? But Verin herself, as she did with Moiraine in New Spring when both were novices.) Except Moiraine was of the Blue Ajah, as she told Perrin at one point in the story on the way to Tear, while Alanna was of the Green Ajah. That different of Ajah matters here, as both Alanna and Moiraine had common friends as novices in the "New Spring" book. Verin took advantage of Alanna beliefs system, but she didn't use Compulsion on Alanna. If Verin was using Compulsion why did she tell Perrin to stay away from Alanna in Two Rivers, after learning Rand was the Dragon Reborn? Verin could of just use more Compulsion, if one agreed with your faction's argument. Why, risk the chance telling Perrin anything about Alanna's intentions?


Not everyone Vedin interacted with was a BA nor was subject to Compulsion....


An extreme crush on men, let alone a man who's ta'veren is enough for other women to make a move on their own or with some indirect external influences:

Berelain in Tear?
Selande Darengil in Cairhien?