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SauceyBlueConfetti
10-29-2009, 02:12 PM
Ok. I will finally succumb and admit Siuan cannot be Black Ajah.

Anyone else have a pet theory that has now been crushed beneath the heels of millions of readers?

Davian93
10-29-2009, 02:13 PM
Ok. I will finally succumb and admit Siuan cannot be Black Ajah.

Anyone else have a pet theory that has now been crushed beneath the heels of millions of readers?

Maybe she'll be turned by a 13 and 13 circle? Hold out hope!

Terez
10-29-2009, 02:31 PM
I had two factions go down. I was right about the Great Purge except for thinking that Alviarin would be the one to get busted and reveal all the names. She had a huge target painted on her forehead, so I guess I should have known that she was a red herring. Verin came out of nowhere to steal her glory.

Also, I had a faction that Moiraine would be the one to give Rand his laughter and tears. Was wrong about that as well, since he's had them now and she's not back yet, lol.

creepybob
10-29-2009, 02:56 PM
Also, I had a faction that Moiraine would be the one to give Rand his laughter and tears. Was wrong about that as well, since he's had them now and she's not back yet, lol.

I joined you in that one.

The sad thing is you were right 'bout Egwene taking control w/o the SC attack...if it had waited another couple weeks she'd have had it.



In our defense we thought that Moiraine would show up because we thought that Mat would go to ToG. Instead we get a remake of Night of the Living dead, which was unpredictable.

I found myself screaming at the book, "I don't CARE about these damn villagers, just move on!"

Mort
10-29-2009, 03:18 PM
Yeah, the chapters with Mat wasn't all that great story-wise. Not much happened that pushed the story forward that I could see.

And now with him either waiting 30 days in Caemlyn or 10 days (and open the letter) it's gonna take some time for him to get started to ToG. I really hope he opens that letter, if only to be gone quicker :)

I'm hoping for about 8-10 PoVs of Mat in next book, with an included trip to ToG.

I realized after I had read the book that it hadn't contained even one PoV of Elayne. I hadn't missed her one bit. Not that I thought I would either though ;)

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 06:19 PM
Egwene, my god, that was just such a great story line, the second dinner with Elaida just floored me. I was expecting all of it, but still....priceless

And the paralells between her and Rand are uncanny

Mort
10-29-2009, 06:24 PM
Egwene, my god, that was just such a great story line, the second dinner with Elaida just floored me. I was expecting all of it, but still....priceless

And the paralells between her and Rand are uncanny

You mean their struggle at becoming strong enough to fight on? Seemed like Egwene took the shorter and more sane route before realizing what she needed to do :)

Hopefully Rand will be alright now. At least from the hardness/voices. He'll probably still puke his guts out when reaching for Saidin though. Totally not well that boy.

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 07:10 PM
Well..Egwene didn't have the taint to deal with, or other lives getting in the way LOL


MAybe we should start some crazy theory that EGWENE is Ilyena reborn and the two still can't be together...kidding

Ivhon
10-29-2009, 07:15 PM
Egwene has been my favorite character for 6-7 books now. More firmly so after this.

I love Mat as a character, but his story arc is really a waste of words.

Barely noticed missing an Elayne PoV. Another reason I am satisfied.

Terez
10-29-2009, 07:47 PM
The sad thing is you were right 'bout Egwene taking control w/o the SC attack...if it had waited another couple weeks she'd have had it.
Yeah, I never really believed that strongly that the attack wouldn't come right as she was about to gain it (knew it was quite possible). I just knew that, technically, she didn't need the attack to gain the Seat. Everything was coming together for her to gain it simply by the example she was setting, and the impression she had already made on several Sitters and Heads. And Beonin, and the connection to the Hunters....it was clear she would be swaying a lot of Sitters, attack or no. I am quite happy with the way it was done. I only ever hated the arguments that said that, because the Sitters saw Egwene as a novice and a rebel, that there was no way they'd raise her without a glory scene in the attack. And I'm like....wow, so much wasted plot then! lol...

Ieyasu
10-29-2009, 07:54 PM
Yeah, I never really believed that strongly that the attack wouldn't come right as she was about to gain it (knew it was quite possible). I just knew that, technically, she didn't need the attack to gain the Seat. Everything was coming together for her to gain it simply by the example she was setting, and the impression she had already made on several Sitters and Heads. And Beonin, and the connection to the Hunters....it was clear she would be swaying a lot of Sitters, attack or no. I am quite happy with the way it was done. I only ever hated the arguments that said that, because the Sitters saw Egwene as a novice and a rebel, that there was no way they'd raise her without a glory scene in the attack. And I'm like....wow, so much wasted plot then! lol...


eh, I think she laid the ground work, but I firmly believe that the Ajah heads and Sitters would never have deposed Elaida, as seen with her trial and penance.

I think the Seanchan attack was necessary to create a power vacuum, and her ground work enabled them to raise her to the united Amyrlin seat.

edit:
I did love her glory scene... standing on the top of the tower, defying the attack and completely wtfpwning the Seanchan in full view of any who looked up! But I do not believe this glory scene is what did it. I agree it was her example and the ground work she did while in captivity.
I just dont think the tower faction would have ever deposed Elaida on their own, so I do think the attack was completely necessary to get her there.

Zaela Sedai
10-29-2009, 07:56 PM
agreed

Terez
10-30-2009, 04:43 AM
eh, I think she laid the ground work, but I firmly believe that the Ajah heads and Sitters would never have deposed Elaida, as seen with her trial and penance.
The trial and penance was still influenced by the Black Ajah, and Mesaana wouldn't have wanted Elaida deposed just yet. Velina, Sedore, and Evanellein were there to vote, and the younger ones were probably too scared to impose too harsh a penance on Elaida. Deposing is different, cause it's not as likely to come back to bite you in the ass. The Ajah Heads didn't control them quite so well as we thought. And only two of the Heads were Sitters - we got to spy on one of their meetings finally, and yeah, they were still trying to deny the obvious. But that's because they all had hopes of controlling things, and they had to let that go. I really loved that POV. I don't think it's how RJ would have done it, but I liked it anyway, lol. The too-young Sitters were apparently up for grabs, and I do believe that Egwene could have easily bullied Suana and Ferane into accepting responsibility for the disaster named Elaida, with just a tad more time.

I do think that the initial meeting with the Hunters was a bit anti-climactic (ch. 12). Maybe because I was expecting it, and I would have rather it been something dramatic like the initial meeting between the Hunters where they busted Talene.

Callandor
10-30-2009, 10:02 AM
I was quite proud of what I took to be signs pointing to Verin going to the Borderlanders.

But two of my theories were predicated on the subjects not being Black Ajah, and both were. As I said elsewhere, I really liked Verin's storyline here, but what the hell? No one else can really say to getting their prediction down pat, though three groups got closer than I did in various ways.

Plus, I really wanted to see Elaida bonded by an Asha'man. Being a damane is very close in bad terms for Elaida, but damn it, she could've been with an Asha'man!

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Tamyrlin
10-30-2009, 11:11 AM
While I believe I will be vindicated regarding Lanfear and Verin, I'm happy to point out that I was so wrong about her NOT being Black Ajah. Don't know how many times I wrote NOT Black Ajah. Hah.

Weird Harold
10-30-2009, 12:12 PM
While I believe I will be vindicated regarding Lanfear and Verin, I'm happy to point out that I was so wrong about her NOT being Black Ajah. Don't know how many times I wrote NOT Black Ajah. Hah.
Likewise.

I was seriously wrong about Verin. Istill have to wait for the Library before I can decide just how wrong I was, but I'vee seen enough spoilers to know it was a bunch. :(

The Black Wind
10-30-2009, 12:26 PM
I can't say I was totally surprised by Verin. I knew she wasn't evil. It seems fitting that she was a mole. Not that I predicted it or anything. I just didn't feel the sock that some of you have expressed while reading that scene.

I was however, drastically wrong about what she was up to. Now how is Mat going to get the Horn!? :(

(I'm still holding out a small amount of hope that her letter to Mat addresses this)

Ivhon
10-30-2009, 12:30 PM
I can't say I was totally surprised by Verin. I knew she wasn't evil. It seems fitting that she was a mole. Not that I predicted it or anything. I just didn't feel the sock that some of you have expressed while reading that scene.

I was however, drastically wrong about what she was up to. Now how is Mat going to get the Horn!? :(

(I'm still holding out a small amount of hope that her letter to Mat addresses this)

The big unanswered question with Verin is what horrors did she commit as BA?

Davian93
10-30-2009, 12:40 PM
The big unanswered question with Verin is what horrors did she commit as BA?

I wonder if Verin was in on the torture of the Amyrlin and the "Unpleasantness" that followed the Aiel War?

Wunderwaffe
10-30-2009, 01:04 PM
Verin wanted Mat to wait in Caemlyn for a few weeks. Maybe the Horn will be delivered to him there by someone.

SauceyBlueConfetti
10-30-2009, 01:10 PM
Verin wanted Mat to wait in Caemlyn for a few weeks. Maybe the Horn will be delivered to him there by someone.

I think she wants him to wait in Caemlyn to make sure the BA in Elayne's midst are cleaned out. And her request has something to do with Moiraine's situation.

Just a prediction

Davian93
10-30-2009, 01:11 PM
She just feels that Mat needs some R & R at the Royal Palace.

Or maybe he needs to save Elayne and Co from another threat (gholam vs. Mat, Round 2?)

Tamyrlin
10-30-2009, 01:13 PM
We know Mat is going to open that letter long before "a few weeks".

Davian93
10-30-2009, 01:15 PM
We know Mat is going to open that letter long before "a few weeks".

It could very well be warded to prevent that.

FelixPax
10-30-2009, 01:53 PM
She just feels that Mat needs some R & R at the Royal Palace.

Or maybe he needs to save Elayne and Co from another threat (gholam vs. Mat, Round 2?)

If Verin Sedai guessed correctly who was a BA member, for all but three Aes Sedai members according to Egwene that gives us a hint I think too.

Verin Sedai very likely knows what has been going to the Silver Swan Inn in Caemlyn, from her Brown Ajah spy Librarian in the city. Not to mention what is activity occurring now in the Black Tower with Taim leading a faction of Dreadlords. Elayne will indeed need Mat's added protection I think here.

Wonder if Verin knows about Moghedien old crew of Black Ajah working in Caemlyn? After all, she was the one to "inform" Egwene about Liandrin's group possible destination early in the series towards Tear. I'd think Verin Sedai would have information pass for Mat to give later to Elayne about those Black Ajah, too: Liandrin's old group + Silver Swan Aes Sedai.

Verin Sedai did said it would of been horrible shortly after Dumai Wells if Rand had actually arrived at Tar Valon as a prisoner. I think she'd pass a warning to Mat, Elayne about the Black Tower's dangers now in that letter. Not to mention where the Horn is located, unless Siuan does this instead, finding the Horn?

WinespringBrother
10-30-2009, 02:17 PM
Possibly, due to her Oaths, Verin had to ward the letter to Mat to only be readable after her death. As for the timeline (i.e. has that timeframe passed for Mat already by the time we see Verin's confession), I will have to do a re-read.

Davian93
10-30-2009, 02:18 PM
Possibly, due to her Oaths, Verin had to ward the letter to Mat to only be readable after her death. As for the timeline (i.e. has that timeframe passed for Mat already by the time we see Verin's confession), I will have to do a re-read.

Hmm..that's a very, very good possibility. It would make complete sense.

SauceyBlueConfetti
10-30-2009, 02:23 PM
Possibly, due to her Oaths, Verin had to ward the letter to Mat to only be readable after her death. As for the timeline (i.e. has that timeframe passed for Mat already by the time we see Verin's confession), I will have to do a re-read.

I believe it is past the timeline, or very close...Verin specifically says she has plans in motion that she had hoped to handle herself. She also negotiates a longer time for Mat to wait in case it takes her longer to get back. Sorry, don't have the actual quote with me.

I expect the timelines to all smarten back up pretty quickly in the next book. Either that or all the missing folks will have THEIR Pov's in the next book, and the round up will occur in the final book.