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Terez
11-05-2009, 02:42 AM
Thought we might want to keep a list of these.

First off, there's Harine in chapter 5. She was at the Cleansing.

Then there's Sulin. She's supposed to be with Perrin.

Then there's this:

TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 7 - The Plan for Arad Doman

"You were in Andor to help Elayne," Rand said.

"She did not want or need help," Bael said with a snort. "And she was right to refuse aid. I'd rather run across the entire Waste with a single skin of water than have leadership of my clan handed to me by another." This seems to be in direct contradiction with this:

TITLE - Crossroads of Twilight
PROLOGUE - Glimmers of the Pattern

Bael grunted sourly. “Melaine told me what Elayne Trakand said. We must do nothing on her part. That is simpleminded. When an enemy comes against you, you make use of whoever will dance the spears by your side. Do they play at war the way they play at their Game of Houses?”

“We are outlanders, Bael. That counts, in Andor.”

The huge Aielman grunted again.

Then there's this:

TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 46 - To Be Forged Again

...eleven Sitters. Not enough to raise an Amyrlin by the old laws of the Tower - but those had been revised with Elaida's disbanding of the Blue. Fewer Sitters meant fewer women needed to raise an Amyrlin, and now only eleven were required. It would have to do. Which makes no sense because Elaida was raised with only 11 Sitters, and the original law from the glossary says that the Sitters of the Ajah from which the Amyrlin was raised need not be called to the Sitting.

I can't think of any others right now, but I think there were more. This will be a good central place so that we can send all of them to Team Jordan for the second edition printing.

lurk
11-05-2009, 03:42 AM
Terez, the part about Bael is not necesarily an error, it could be that Bael changed his opinion after the remark about being an outlander. outlander in Aiel means being from a different clan

And Egwene is from no Ajah, so where Elaida excluded 2 ajahs (blue and red) she needed the 11 part to be elected. Egwene cannot exclude any ajahs so formally she would need more than 11 to make the cut. But as she says. 11 is enough, I bet Elaida changed the rules to have the number 11used as the minimal number of sitters required to select an amyrlin.

Terez
11-05-2009, 03:46 AM
Elaida did not exclude the Red for her own raising - only the Blue. And the quorum of 11 is not tied to the 3 Sitters of the Amyrlin's Ajah - it's 11 either way, and according to the glossary, always has been.

Bael might have changed his mind, but he could have said so. The quotes look awfully contradictory to me.

lurk
11-05-2009, 03:56 AM
Elaida did not exclude the Red for her own raising - only the Blue. And the quorum of 11 is not tied to the 3 Sitters of the Amyrlin's Ajah - it's 11 either way, and according to the glossary, always has been.

OK call me thickheaded but I do not get what you are saying here.

Did or did not Elaida change the number sitters to choose an amyrlin to 11? I Yes then Egwene is using what Elaida did. She only has 11 sitters right now so they need ALL to say AYE to have her elected. I think that is what that quote is saying

Terez
11-05-2009, 03:59 AM
The quote in TGS says that Elaida changed it, but the quorum of 11 has been in the glossary all along, not saying anything about Elaida changing it.

GonzoTheGreat
11-05-2009, 06:04 AM
Bael might have changed his mind, but he could have said so. The quotes look awfully contradictory to me.Bael may not have figured out until after the first quote that Elayne was engaged in a leadership contest. If he thought of her opponents as "enemies" then that would explain why he thought she was wrong to refuse help. After he learned that they were "rivals", his view on outside help may have changed accordingly.

Why didn't you include the Sulin business here?

Terez
11-05-2009, 06:12 AM
Why can't you read?

GonzoTheGreat
11-05-2009, 06:16 AM
Why can't you read?Do you think I pay attention to what you say? :p
I'd been scanning all the new posts just a bit too quick, I think.

Terez
11-05-2009, 06:22 AM
Do you think I pay attention to what you say? :p
If you did, you might have figured out that you were wrong about Lews Therin years ago. Now you're left hanging onto that tuft of grass with Isa...

GonzoTheGreat
11-05-2009, 06:24 AM
But we also have the moving tree to hide behind, since Taimandred doesn't need it anymore anyway.
I haven't managed to spot it in the snow on Dragonmount, yet, though.

lurk
11-05-2009, 07:38 AM
If you did, you might have figured out that you were wrong about Lews Therin years ago. Now you're left hanging onto that tuft of grass with Isa...

TL also has circular time....

Terez
11-05-2009, 07:44 AM
haha, too true!

Terez
11-05-2009, 08:07 AM
Also. Forkroot. Can't really blame this one on BS or Team Jordan since RJ contradicted himself on it. But does forkroot affect non-channelers, or does it not? Tam says he can't use the water from Malden due to the forkroot (for the Two Rivers men). But the forkroot only affected the Wise Ones during the Battle of Malden, not the regular people.....

Davian93
11-05-2009, 08:18 AM
Also. Forkroot. Can't really blame this one on BS or Team Jordan since RJ contradicted himself on it. But does forkroot affect non-channelers, or does it not? Tam says he can't use the water from Malden due to the forkroot (for the Two Rivers men). But the forkroot only affected the Wise Ones during the Battle of Malden, not the regular people.....

I thought it worked as a sedative regardless...only it was far more powerful against a Channeler. Wasnt that RJ's correction on it?

GonzoTheGreat
11-05-2009, 08:38 AM
It may be that Tam isn't all that certain about it. And I suspect that once someone raises the issue, no one is exactly eager to be the test person anymore.

WinespringBrother
11-05-2009, 09:14 AM
Maybe Tam wants to avoid having people inadvertently find out they can channel, especially men LOL

I don't think Harine's comments were a mistake. They just reflect the same attitude Merise and Cadsuane had for a while until they convinced themselves otherwise.

As for mistakes, while under the light were Gawyn and the 2 warders practicing with real swords?

Davian93
11-05-2009, 10:43 AM
Maybe Tam wants to avoid having people inadvertently find out they can channel, especially men LOL

I don't think Harine's comments were a mistake. They just reflect the same attitude Merise and Cadsuane had for a while until they convinced themselves otherwise.

As for mistakes, while under the light were Gawyn and the 2 warders practicing with real swords?

Because Gawyn is hard-core? Maybe they didn't have practice swords available?

Ozymandias
11-05-2009, 10:45 AM
I'll have to find the chapter later, but there is a point at which Aviendha is commenting on the uselessness of wetlanders and their armies with all their attendants and thinks to herself that the Aiel are more efficient by only bringing warriors and Wise One's in their war bands, which obviously would never happen. I remember putting a sticky note there it was such a blatantly bad error.

Yuri33
11-05-2009, 02:35 PM
At work right now, but I believe there may have been a screw up with the discussion of Wise One training and Sevanna. Amys was talking about the training of Sevanna and how she declaired too early that she was equal to a Wise One. But I believe we had learned earlier that she became a Wise One by virtue of marrying a clan chief or being a roofmistress or something. She never went to Rhuidean to learn of the Aiel's true history.

One Armed Gimp
11-05-2009, 02:48 PM
Not sure where you think there is an error Ozy. I do not think that Avi implied that Wise Ones participate in battle, or that they did prior to this anyway, just that they may have traveled with them.

As for Sevanna, one does not become a Wise One by through marriage. She merely declared herself a Wise One and had three Wise One's confirm it. Also, there is no mention in the book, that I recall, of Sevanna's training, only that her declaration pushed the bounds of honor.

Nelal Hurcran
11-05-2009, 02:49 PM
But does forkroot affect non-channelers, or does it not? Tam says he can't use the water from Malden due to the forkroot (for the Two Rivers men). But the forkroot only affected the Wise Ones during the Battle of Malden, not the regular people.....


"...During the day, you will not be shielded at all. But every hour you will be given a mild tincture of forkroot." Silviana's mouth twisted on the word...."I cannot like the stuff. It seems aimed directly at Aes Sedai. Someone who cannot channel can drink five times the amount that makes a sister pass out and barely grow dizzy from it..."


So it sounds like it affects both. It just takes a lot more to affect non-channelers.

I'm guessing that the affect the spiked water had on the "regular" people in Malden is based mostly on how long the forkroot had been in the water, and so, how much they could have drank.

Terez
11-05-2009, 03:01 PM
So it sounds like it affects both. It just takes a lot more to affect non-channelers.
Like I said, RJ has contradicted himself on it before. Unless you believe that Ronde Macura could channel (which seems unlikely, as she was with the Seanchan and not collared), but the people in Malden didn't seem affected at all, and the quote you gave says they barely grow dizzy from it.

nameless
11-05-2009, 03:23 PM
It's a question of dosage. A channeler drinks 1 cup and passes out. An non-channeler drinks 5 cups and gets a little bit dizzy. We can extrapolate and a assume that around the 10-15 cup range the non-channeler would pass out as well.

Terez
11-05-2009, 03:23 PM
I somehow doubt they gave her that much...

nameless
11-05-2009, 03:59 PM
well they were pretty upset with her :)

Terez
11-05-2009, 04:00 PM
Yes, but they had no reason to think it would take that much.

FelixPax
11-05-2009, 06:45 PM
Then there's Sulin. She's supposed to be with Perrin.

It might not be an error, but purposeful. Yet still Nandera would of been the logical Maiden leader to be with Rand in Arad Doman, after Sulin went with Perrin, Berelain after Masema and the Queen of Ghealdan.

It would of been helpful if Brandon showed the reasoning why Sulin instead of Nandera was with Rand at the Balefiring of Graendel's fortress. The whole scenario lacked clarity, especially after we know Nandera and Sulin wrested and fought in route to Dumai Wells to determine who the leader of the Maidens is, that is Nandera now.

So how and why did Sulin come to Arad Doman, that's the real open question? Are there plot reasons why Brandon left this out?

I do plan on asking Brandon about Sulin, at the Pasadena bookstore signing if we do not hear the reasoning why before this.


Edit: I just now noticed this particular quote by Tam on tGS pg 739 hardback-

"Cadsuane Sedai," Tam said. "She brought me here, said that I needed to talk to you. I'd stayed away, previously, because I thought the last thing you needed was your father stomping across your field!"

So who visited and attempted to persuade Tam to talk with Rand before?

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 04:57 AM
So who visited and attempted to persuade Tam to talk with Rand before?I don't think anyone did. I think that Tam decided on his own not to go visiting the big cities, claiming special prerogatives on account of being an al'Thor.

FelixPax
11-06-2009, 05:34 AM
I don't think anyone did. I think that Tam decided on his own not to go visiting the big cities, claiming special prerogatives on account of being an al'Thor.

Nynaeve was in on Cadsuane's plans, so she may have gone with Cadsuane to convince Tam al'Thor to have a chat with Rand. I wonder though, what Tam thinks of Nynaeve status as an Aes Sedai?

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 05:43 AM
I think that Tam is smart enough not to meddle in Women's Circle business. Unlike his son, obviously, who did precisely that merely to seduce a young girl.

Davian93
11-06-2009, 08:23 AM
Nynaeve was in on Cadsuane's plans, so she may have gone with Cadsuane to convince Tam al'Thor to have a chat with Rand. I wonder though, what Tam thinks of Nynaeve status as an Aes Sedai?

Well, he called her "Wisdom" during his conversation with Her and Caddy. My guess is he considers the title "Wisdom" to have more respect than that of Aes Sedai.

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 09:06 AM
Well, he called her "Wisdom" during his conversation with Her and Caddy. My guess is he considers the title "Wisdom" to have more respect than that of Aes Sedai.Maybe he has met some Aes Sedai on previous occasions?

Davian93
11-06-2009, 09:08 AM
Maybe he has met some Aes Sedai on previous occasions?

Well obviously, Gonzo.

reTaardad
11-06-2009, 11:47 AM
As for mistakes, while under the light were Gawyn and the 2 warders practicing with real swords?
I think that BS wanted us to initially think that an Aes Sedai had decided to dispose of Gawyn per Elaida's request. Also, it's bad ass to duel with real swords instead of sticks.

Wunderwaffe
11-06-2009, 02:23 PM
I don't consider the Harine issue as an error. Harine isn't nearly as familiar with the OP as an Aes Sedai, or Asha'man. She had no idea what channeling saidin was like before the Taint. It is reasonable to conclude that the events that occured at Shadar Logoth on that fatefal day were beyond her comprehension. From her point of view, Nynaeve was glowing like the sun from the immense amount of saidar she was channeling. A huge dome of stygian black hovered above the city, until it collapsed in on itself. No sign of Aridhol remained afterwords.

Some of the Aes Sedai who were actually there during the Cleansing are still a little skeptical. I don't see this as an inconsistency. I see this as a realistic portrayal of what would probably happen when a man abruptly rights a 3000+ year old mistake. People aren't going to strive against the normative trends of society overnight. It takes time.

Terez
11-06-2009, 02:47 PM
It's definitely an error, because she speaks of Logain mentioning it as if it was the first time she'd heard of it. Rand announced to everyone what he was doing before he did it, and Harine was there.

WinespringBrother
11-06-2009, 03:58 PM
It's definitely an error, because she speaks of Logain mentioning it as if it was the first time she'd heard of it. Rand announced to everyone what he was doing before he did it, and Harine was there.

No, it is not a mistake.


Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 22 - To Make an Anchor Weep
"What she says is true in part," Logain said calmly. "I am an Asha'man, but there is no taint any longer. Saidin is clean. The Creator decided to show us mercy, it seems. I have a question for her. Whom do you serve, Aes Sedai, Egwene al'Vere or Elaida a'Roihan?" Wisely, Amylia kept her mouth shut.

Originally posted by TGS, pg. 102:

"She pursed her lips, regarding him. "Your ...man spoke of this, Coramoor. Some find it difficult to accept."

"It is true," he said firmly.

"I do not doubt that you believe it to be so."

She spoke of it as the "some" hearing of it for the first time are Zaida and the others and they find it difficult to accept.

Terez
11-06-2009, 04:23 PM
No, it is not a mistake.
I disagree. There should have been some sort of acknowledgment that Harine already knew of the Cleansing because she was there, but she spoke of it as if she had first heard the news from Logain.

WinespringBrother
11-06-2009, 04:34 PM
I disagree. There should have been some sort of acknowledgment that Harine already knew of the Cleansing because she was there, but she spoke of it as if she had first heard the news from Logain.

Why would Harine have to acknowledge something that both she and Rand already assume that she knows, which is that she was at the cleansing? How would she word that without sounding like a carp-brained fool?

Terez
11-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Why would Rand tell her something she already knows as if she doesn't already know it?

One Armed Gimp
11-06-2009, 04:48 PM
Because he knows most don't believe it.

Honestly though, I am split as to whether this was an oversight or not.

nameless
11-06-2009, 04:53 PM
I'd lean towards thinking it's not an oversight. As others have said, just because Harine was at Shadar Logoth doesn't mean she had the faintest idea what was going on there. And Rand's comments to her weren't an attempt to educate her about the Cleansing, they were an effort to find out how much resistance he could expect while educating others about the Cleansing. Quite a bit, as it turns out, although it should help that the Aes Sedai are starting to accept it.

Wunderwaffe
11-06-2009, 11:38 PM
Rand was unconscious after his channeling at Shadar Logoth. The effort of cleansing the True Source completely drained his energy. After the deed was done, he couldn't announce to the survivors: "Hey guys, this operation was a total success. The male half of the True Source is no longer tainted." The only male channeler who really commented afterwords was Narishma. He claimed that saidin was clean. The female channelers in the party -- through no fault of their own -- distrust and fear, perhaps even loathe male channelers. It is highly unlikely that everyone accepted the fact that Rand was successful...at least initially.

Harine certainly wouldn't know for a fact that saidin was cleansed. Even if a few claimed it was, she was bound to be skeptical. Maybe her surprise at Logain's comments was that it lay further credence to the individuals who were claiming Shadar Logoth was a success...like Narishma for instance.

Maybe I need to make a bit closer inspection of the text, but this is the impression I got.

Terez
11-06-2009, 11:50 PM
I'd lean towards thinking it's not an oversight. As others have said, just because Harine was at Shadar Logoth doesn't mean she had the faintest idea what was going on there.
TITLE - Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 35 - With the Choedan Kal

Thrusting Callandor under his saddle-girth, he reined the gray around to face the others. The horses held their tails tight against the wind, but now and then one stamped a hoof or tossed its head, impatient to be moving again after so long in the stable. The leather scrip that hung from Nynaeve's shoulder looked incongruous with all the be-gemmed ter'angreal she wore. Now that the time was near, she was stroking the bulging scrip, apparently without realizing what she was doing. She was trying to hide her fear, but her chin trembled. Cadsuane was looking at him impassively. Her cowl had fallen down her back, and sometimes a gust stronger than most swayed the golden fish and birds, stars and moons, dangling from her bun.

"I am going to remove the taint from the male half of the Source," he announced.

The three Asha'man, now in plain dark coats and cloaks like the other Warders, exchanged excited glances, but a ripple passed through the Aes Sedai. Nesune let out a gasp that seemed too large for the slender, bird-like sister.

Cadsuane's expression never altered. "With that?" she said, raising a skeptical eyebrow at the bundle beneath his leg.

"With the Choedan Kal," he replied. That name was another gift from Lews Therin, resting in Rand's head as if it had always been there. "You know them as immense statues, sa'angreal, one buried in Cairhien, the other on Tremalking." Harine's head jerked, making the golden medallions on her nose chain click together, at mention of the Sea Folk island. "They're too big to be moved with any ease, but I have a pair of ter'angreal called access keys. Using those, the Choedan Kal can be tapped from anywhere in the world."Perhaps Harine is just a little bit dense....

Wunderwaffe
11-07-2009, 04:37 AM
We must assume that Harine knows the purpose of the visit to Shadar Logoth. There was a brief discussion outside of Far Madding about the possibilities entailed with using the access keys to cleanse the True Source. The potential ramifications and all.

Cadsuane gathered the Aes Sedai around her, and Alivia and the Sea Folk Windfinder, too. Harine grumbled loudly about being excluded, until a finger pointed by Cadsuane sent her stalking across the hilltop. Moad, in his odd blue quilted coat, sat Harine down on an outcrop, and talked soothingly, though sometimes his eyes went to the surrounding trees, and then he slid a hand along the long ivory hilt of his sword. Jahar appeared from the direction of the horses, stripping the cloth wrappings from Callandor.

Harine participates in the Cleansing battle. She is tasked with defending the Dragon Reborn and Nynaeve from any potential threats.

All around the hilltop the circles were forming, Sarene and Corele linked with the old man, Flinn, and Nesune, Beldeine and Daigian with the boy Hopwil. Verin and Kumira even made a circle with the Sea Folk wilder; she was actually quite strong, and everyone had to be used.

This is important. Harine doesn't link with any Asha'man. She can't possibly perceive the before and after effects of saidin. She never linked with a male channeler while the taint was there. She never linked with a male channeler after the taint was cleansed. It's safe to say she has never been in a circle with a male channeler before, so saidin would be a totally foreign thing for her to experience. Because she wasn't part of a circle that had a male in it at the Cleansing sequence, there is absolutely no way for her to know for truth that saidin was cleansed.

Additionally; Verin, Harine, and Kumira had their hands full fighting Graendal. I'm sure they threw some destructive weaves at some of the other Forsaken as well as spinning multiple defensive weaves when they were attacked. When you are in a life threatening situation you tend to focus on staying alive instead of noting peripheral things. Such as what Rand and Nynaeve were doing. I doubt Harine was aware of the niceties and nuances to Rand's plan. Even though Harine could obviously sense the immense amount of saidar being woven, she was more concerned with other things. Like staying alive.

A little farther up the hill, the bald Asha'man was bent over a groaning Beldeine, his fingers writhing just above her as he wove his strange Healing. He had been busy the last hour. Alivia could not stop scaring in wonder and flexing the arm that had been broken as well as seared to the bone. Sarene walked unsteadily, but that was just tiredness. She had almost died out there in the forest, and her eyes were still wide with the experience. Whites were not used to that sort of thing.
Not everyone had been so lucky. Verin and the Sea Folk woman were sitting beside the cloak-covered form of Kumira, their lips moving silently in prayers for her soul, and Nesune was trying awkwardly to comfort a weeping Daigian, who cradled young Eben's corpse in her arms and rocked him like a baby. Greens were used to that sort of thing, but Cadsuane did not like losing two of her people in return for no more than a few singed Forsaken and one dead renegade.

After the battle Harine, Verin, and others were preoccupied with mourning the dead or treating the wounded. The implications of what Rand and Nynaeve accomplished have yet to dawn on those who participated in the battle. Other than the Asha'man of course. And the Aes Sedai who happened to be linked with the Ashaman, of course. Harine is in neither category, and she was out of earshot of Jahar when he mentioned it being clean.


"It's clean," Jahar said softly yet again. This time, Merise was the one sitting, with his head resting in her lap. Her blue eyes were as stern as ever, but she stroked his black hair gently. "It's clean."
Cadsuane exchanged looks with Merise over the boy's head. Darner and Jahar both said the same thing, the taint was gone, but how could they be sure some scrap did not remain? Merise had allowed her to link with the boy, and she could not feel anything like what the other Green had described, yet how could they be certain? Saidin was so alien that anything could be hidden in that mad chaos.
"I want to leave as soon as the rest of the Warders return," she announced. There were too many questions for which she had no answers to suit her, but she had young al'Thor now, and she did not intend to lose him.

Jahar remarked that saidin was clean, and I believe that only a few people heard what he said. Cadsuane expresses skepticism initially, with reason. It's sometimes difficult to think a new way when you have lived with the horror and revulsion accompanied by the DO's taint for so long. It will take a while for acceptance of the Cleansing to become mainstream.


Studying him up and down with a frown. Zaida sipped her wine. “You have a name?”
“I am Logain,” he said simply.
Half the women in the room exhaled sharply, and most of the rest let their jaws drop. More than one slopped wine from her goblet. Not Zaida. and not Harine. but the others. Logain. That was a name known even to the Atha’an Miere.
“May I speak, Shipmistress?” Amylia asked breathily. She was clutching the porcelain pitcher so hard that Harine feared it might shatter in her hands, but the woman had learned enough sense to say no more until Zaida nodded. Then words spilled from her in a breathless rush. “This man was a false Dragon. He was gentled for it. How it is he can channel again. I cannot know, but he channels sa’tdin. Saidin. He is tainted, Shipmistress. If you deal with him, you will incur the wrath of the White Tower. I know-”
“Enough,” Zaida cut in. “You should be well aware by now how much I fear the wrath of the White Tower.”
“But-!” Zaida held up a single finger, and the Aes Sedai’s mouth snapped shut, her lips twisting in a sickly fashion. That one word might lead to her kissing the deckmaster’s sister again, and she knew it.
“What she says is true in part,” Logain said calmly. “I am an Asha’man, but there is no taint any longer. Saidin is clean. The Creator decided to show us mercy, it seems. I have a question for her. Whom do you serve. Aes Sedai, Egwene al’Vere or Elaida a’Roihan?” Wisely, Amylia kept her mouth shut.


Harine doesn't make any comments when Amylia accuses Logain of being tainted. Granted, she would probably be reprimanded by Zaida for speaking out of turn at such an important meeting. It is likely that Harine told no one about all that happened at Shadar Logoth. Or, she was ignorant about Jahar and Dahmer's claims that saidin was clean. If that is the case, her skepticism is logical. Harine didn't have anything comments after Logain mused that the Creator had decided to "show mercy," either. Once again, this is probably because Zaida was in charge of the audience and an interruption would be punished.

"She pursed her lips, regarding him. "Your ...man spoke of this, Coramoor. Some find it difficult to accept."

"It is true," he said firmly.

"I do not doubt that you believe it to be so."

1) It's quite impossible for Harine to know that saidin was successfully cleansed at Shadar Logoth. (no before-after comparisons made)

2) Harine was quite preoccupied at Shadar Logoth. Fighting for her life and all. I'm sure the adrenaline was pumping.

3) There's no way she heard Jahar say that saidin was cleansed. Not sure if she heard Dahmer, but I think it's safe to say she didn't.

Terez
11-07-2009, 04:51 AM
Well, Harine can't channel (that's Shalon), so of course she couldn't link with anyone.

Terez
11-07-2009, 06:24 AM
I also noticed a few times that BS says 'Amyrlin's shawl' quite a few times, instead of stole. There is a difference. It confused me in particular once when someone said something about Elaida would keep the shawl. Which made me wonder because no one had suggested she be demoted from being Aes Sedai - just that she be deposed from being Amyrlin. I just came across one, in the making of the file for the book, and I fixed it, lol.

GonzoTheGreat
11-07-2009, 06:31 AM
To be fair to him: after a couple of bad experiences (four consecutive armed rebellions, I think), the AS had decided that if an Amyrlin was deposed, she would be stilled as well, so that she wasn't AS any more.

I don't think that is what he meant, but it could be used as defense.

Terez
11-07-2009, 06:38 AM
Only in that one instance (and not really even there).

Weird Harold
11-07-2009, 12:59 PM
This is important. Harine doesn't link with any Asha'man. She can't possibly perceive the before and after effects of saidin. She never linked with a male channeler while the taint was there. She never linked with a male channeler after the taint was cleansed. It's safe to say she has never been in a circle ...

The reason Harine didn't link with an asha'manis bcause Harine can't channel; She's a Wavemistress, not a Windfinder.

The "seafolk wilder" mentioned in your quotes is her elder sister Shalon:

eWOT/Harine.html:

Harine din Togara Two Winds
She is Wavemistress of the Sea Folk Clan Shodein and one of the First Twelve. Her Swordmaster is Moad. Her Windfinder is Shalon din Togara Morning Tide who is also her older sister.

Wunderwaffe
11-07-2009, 01:19 PM
lol

/target Wunderwaffe
/bonk

Terez
11-07-2009, 05:53 PM
I am starting to think that WH has me on ignore. This is the third time he's posted to repeat something that I already said.....

Terez
11-08-2009, 09:47 AM
Here's another one that bothered me while I was reading, but I had forgotten about it:

TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 17 - Questions of Control

"We can still send the ones who want to go," Perrin said. "We'll travel lighter without them."

Grady shook his head. "That's the thing, my Lord. Your man, Balwer, he gave us a count. I can make a gateway big enough for about two men to walk through at once. If you figure them taking one second to go through . . . Well, it would take hours and hours to send them all. I don't know the number, but he claimed it would be days' worth of work. And he said that his estimates were probably too optimistic. My Lord, I could barely keep a gateway open an hour, with how tired I am." Whatever happened to tying off gateways? Grady can do it, and Perrin knows it:

TITLE: Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 29 - The Last Knot

"Well, as soon as you're done here, join Mishima. I want somebody keeping an eye on him. Somebody who makes him too nervous to chink they can change what they agreed to." He would have liked to tell Grady to tie off this gateway. It would make a short path to take Faile back to the Two Rivers. But if things went wrong today, it would make a short path for the Shaido, too. "Don't know as I could make a cat nervous right now, my Lord, but I'll do what I can."

GonzoTheGreat
11-08-2009, 10:21 AM
Perhaps they are both too tired to think of it?

Terez
11-08-2009, 10:57 AM
Or something.

Tree Brother
11-08-2009, 12:43 PM
Perhaps they are both too tired to think of it?

Knots unravel. And I think something like a gateway would need to be very intricately knotted to keep it going.

I believe it was Sammuel, who knotted a bunch of gateways -- and knotted well enough that they stayed a while.

It would be pretty gruesome for a gateway to close while a bunch of people were going through it -- which I think is a pretty good reason to hold it, rather than tie it...

GonzoTheGreat
11-08-2009, 12:53 PM
Sammael did not knot them all that well, so that they would indeed unravel. And people did get cut in two (or more) pieces when it closed.
There is no real indication that a properly knotted gateway would fall apart all that quickly, as far as I know.

Then again, with the Pattern itself being as weakened as it is, I would not be happy if I had to gamble my own life (or that of others) on such a knot holding, however well it was made.

Kurtz
11-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Question: Is there a way to safeguard gateways, or is everyone that opens potentially fatal to some poor sod at the other end?

Sarevok
11-08-2009, 02:15 PM
Question: Is there a way to safeguard gateways, or is everyone that opens potentially fatal to some poor sod at the other end?
I don't think there's a safe way. You just need to use a designated spot, if you're traveling to a populated area.

Kurtz
11-08-2009, 02:24 PM
I don't think there's a safe way. You just need to use a designated spot, if you're traveling to a populated area.

Still a bit slapdash. Needs to be improved http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu332/IIJM/forum/meh.png

ShadowbaneX
11-08-2009, 02:26 PM
I'm not entirely sure, but I think I remember at one point one of the Forsaken goes to visit another and they actually have this little door bell type weave which went ahead of the gateway and annouced that someone was coming, or something similar.

That's not really a way to safeguard against Gateways though, it's more of a convention for curtesy and safety.

nameless
11-08-2009, 02:29 PM
You could conceivably open a small gateway five or six meters in the air, where it won't hit anybody, and use it to scout the area and make sure there's no one on the ground. Age of Legends gateway protocol was apparently to weave a bell chime through to the other end and wait till they sent a chime back before opening it, but that relies on having someone who can channel standing at both ends of the gate.

WinespringBrother
11-08-2009, 02:56 PM
You could conceivably open a small gateway five or six meters in the air, where it won't hit anybody, and use it to scout the area and make sure there's no one on the ground. Age of Legends gateway protocol was apparently to weave a bell chime through to the other end and wait till they sent a chime back before opening it, but that relies on having someone who can channel standing at both ends of the gate.

Exactly. I used that trick in Twin Towers :D It's much better than Elayne's "lets open a gateway in the middle of nowhere" trick which still isn't guaranteed to be safe. You could still end up walking out and stepping on something unexpected LOL

Marie Curie 7
11-08-2009, 05:43 PM
Another possible error - where did those Bloodknives get their ter'angreal rings?

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 36 - The Death of Tuon

Fortuona moved to the next soldier in the line of five. The woman's black hair was braided. Fortuona kissed her on the forehead, saying the same ritual words. These five were Bloodknives. The pure black stone ring each one wore was a specialized ter'angreal that would grant them strength and speed, and would shroud them in darkness, allowing them to blend into shadows.

RJ said previously that the Seanchan only know how to make one type of ter'angreal (the a'dam):

DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

Q: Do certain races have better ability at channeling than others? For example, the Sea Folk at very good at weather, the Aiel have a high proportion of Dreamers, and the Seanchan can make ter'angreal.

RJ: The Seanchan can only make one kind of ter'angreal. They haven't thought about making another. Certain groups are better at some abilities but it's a matter of need. The Atha'an Miere are dependent on the sea, the wind and water and it would be natural for them to develop high skills to deal with control of weather and winds. For the Aiel, Dreaming is one of the ways to find new water, using need is how they find water. When the population in a hold is too great, and they have to find a new hold, the Dreamwalker uses need to find it. So yes, there are more Dreamwalkers there.

So I guess this is either an error or we have to conclude that the Seanchan have suddenly started making other types of ter'angreal; however, I don't recall anything from their description in the book to indicate that the Bloodknives are a new type of Seanchan fighting unit, so I assume that they've been around for a while.

And, I suppose we could ask the same thing about the Domination bands, since there were five recovered during the incident with Semirhage, although in that case Semirhage might have had some hand in reproducing those from the original.

Weird Harold
11-08-2009, 05:43 PM
You could conceivably open a small gateway five or six meters in the air, ...

...and drop a ceiling or chandelier on some poor unfortunate servant instead of cutting them cleanly in half. :D


I'm sure there is a way to weave a Gateway so that it won't open if it would cut a living being. Sort of like the safety circuit for table saws that stops the saw in les a microsecond if it the blade touches something conductive -- like a finger or hot dog. (I'm sure the Time Warp episode is online somewhere if you don't believe it works.)

RJ did say that in the AOL/War of Power Gateways weren't used offensively because it is possible to block them or divert them.

The Forsaken probably know how to do it but don't care except for t Cyndane and Moggy's visit to Greandal, none of them seem to care if their gateways kill or injure.

None of the Third Agers know enough to weave gateways safely so they rely on isolated traveling grounds. Perhaps Rand will remmeber how to do the warning bell trick now that he's fully integrated with his past-life(s).

Nelal Hurcran
11-08-2009, 06:48 PM
So I guess this is either an error or we have to conclude that the Seanchan have suddenly started making other types of ter'angreal; however, I don't recall anything from their description in the book to indicate that the Bloodknives are a new type of Seanchan fighting unit, so I assume that they've been around for a while.

Or - just presenting another possible theory - they have a stash of these from somewhere. Seems like the type of people that came up with the adam - which were the AS in Seandar - would also come up with a "stealth ring" as it were. But the fact that they replicated the domination band shows that they can make other ter'angreal.

Davian93
11-08-2009, 06:51 PM
Or - just presenting another possible theory - they have a stash of these from somewhere. Seems like the type of people that came up with the adam - which were the AS in Seandar - would also come up with a "stealth ring" as it were. But the fact that they replicated the domination band shows that they can make other ter'angreal.

Its more likely that Semi made the copies of the Domination Band.

Personally, I didn't care for the entire concept of the Bloodknives. All of a sudden the Seanchan can and do make a ter'angreal that essentially turns a regular person into a Gray Man? A little odd that they would come up with something like that.

Nelal Hurcran
11-08-2009, 06:55 PM
I maintain that they were made by the "Aes Sedai" wackos on Seandar, and are used by the Seanchan. We know that those AS were not above pandering to Peandrag when after he came over. Perhaps there were more ter'angreal given than the adam, although the later is more historically significant.

Weird Harold
11-08-2009, 07:07 PM
Or - just presenting another possible theory - they have a stash of these from somewhere. Seems like the type of people that came up with the adam - which were the AS in Seandar - would also come up with a "stealth ring" as it were. But the fact that they replicated the domination band shows that they can make other ter'angreal.
A stash of them seems likely. It's not the type of thing the Seanchan would dream up or make, but the "Aes Sedai" they fought throughout the Consolidation were very likely to dream up and make many such devices and the Seanchan don't strike me as the type to let anything go to waste.

Still, pseudo grey-man assisins do strike me as a bit out-of-character for the Seanchan.

Davian93
11-08-2009, 07:12 PM
A stash of them seems likely. It's not the type of thing the Seanchan would dream up or make, but the "Aes Sedai" they fought throughout the Consolidation were very likely to dream up and make many such devices and the Seanchan don't strike me as the type to let anything go to waste.

Still, pseudo grey-man assisins do strike me as a bit out-of-character for the Seanchan.

They do have a Japanese soldier/emperor level of devotion to the Crystal Throne but even so, I don't buy this "you're gonna die regardless" level of assassin. I wonder if it was an RJ idea or something BS came up with. I could see them having a "stash" of these rings and it being a "once in a blue moon" type deal when they are used. They can't be a regular weapon with that cost.

Weird Harold
11-08-2009, 07:46 PM
They do have a Japanese soldier/emperor level of devotion to the Crystal Throne but even so, I don't buy this "you're gonna die regardless" level of assassin. I wonder if it was an RJ idea or something BS came up with. I could see them having a "stash" of these rings and it being a "once in a blue moon" type deal when they are used. They can't be a regular weapon with that cost.
Seanchan "politics" do seem to be cut-throat enough for there to be a market for that level of Assassin Cult, but it doesn't explain a quantity of the rings being in Randland. <shrugs>

I suspect that the rings are not actually ter'angreal, but focus points for a warding -- something similar to what Moiraine did with the coins she gave to the Three Amigos in Emond's Field or the personalized warding she put on the letter to Rand.

Davian93
11-08-2009, 07:50 PM
Seanchan "politics" do seem to be cut-throat enough for there to be a market for that level of Assassin Cult, but it doesn't explain a quantity of the rings being in Randland. <shrugs>

I suspect that the rings are not actually ter'angreal, but focus points for a warding -- something similar to what Moiraine did with the coins she gave to the Three Amigos in Emond's Field or the personalized warding she put on the letter to Rand.

Why would such a Warding kill the wearer though?

Weird Harold
11-08-2009, 07:57 PM
Why would such a Warding kill the wearer though?
By using his life force as a power source? Sort of like an AS sucking her warder dry when she needs endurance.

Davian93
11-08-2009, 08:05 PM
By using his life force as a power source? Sort of like an AS sucking her warder dry when she needs endurance.

Interesting theory actually.

Kurtz
11-08-2009, 08:15 PM
Interesting theory actually.

Can an Aes Sedai suck a Warder dry though?

I didn't think so.

Davian93
11-08-2009, 08:17 PM
Can an Aes Sedai suck a Warder dry though?

I didn't think so.

Yes. It was just mentioned in another thread but RJ mentioned it in an interview at one point. They don't typically do it for obvious reasons.

Kurtz
11-08-2009, 08:23 PM
Yes. It was just mentioned in another thread but RJ mentioned it in an interview at one point. They don't typically do it for obvious reasons.

Nasty. These kinks will need ironing out with all the Inter-Power bonding

Yuri33
11-08-2009, 11:06 PM
No, they are not wardings, they are ter'angreal:

TGS, The Death of Tuon
Fortuona moved to the next soldier in the line of five. The woman's black hair was braided. Fortuona kissed her on the forehead, saying the same ritual words. These five were Bloodknives. The pure black stone ring each one wore was a specialized ter'angreal that would grant them strength and speed, and would shroud them in darkness, allowing them to blend into the shadows.

I like the stash idea, since they seem to ration out the use of Bloodknives so much. The WT operation is huge, yet they only send 5 Bloodknives to the mission.

Weird Harold
11-08-2009, 11:23 PM
No, they are not wardings, they are ter'angreal:

Sure in the first edition they're ter'angreals, but will they stay ter'angreals in later editions when the fans get through with beating up Brandon for contradicting an RJ Q&A? :eek: :D

Yuri33
11-08-2009, 11:28 PM
If the rings were part of a found stash, then it wouldn't contradict the RJ answer--they can't make them, they only found them and have a limited supply, so they have to ration them out very carefully.

Terez
11-08-2009, 11:30 PM
I like the stash idea, since they seem to ration out the use of Bloodknives so much. The WT operation is huge, yet they only send 5 Bloodknives to the mission.
Well, I imagine that at least partly has to do with the fact that not many really want to die for the Empress.

Yuri33
11-08-2009, 11:34 PM
Except all of the Deathwatch Guard.

Terez
11-08-2009, 11:37 PM
I said not many, not no one. ;)

Weird Harold
11-08-2009, 11:38 PM
If the rings were part of a found stash, then it wouldn't contradict the RJ answer--they can't make them, they only found them and have a limited supply, so they have to ration them out very carefully.
The problem there is why do they have any part of a limited stash in Randland and why are they sending them on a mission that will likely kill the bearers before they can return them to the stash.

The rings seem to be a one time use item which would make more sense if they were warding tokens or something similar than if they were ter'angreal. Sending ter'angreal into enemy territory where they can be found and reused against you strikes me as strategically dumb.

Yuri33
11-08-2009, 11:45 PM
# of Deathwatch Guard >> # of Bloodknives

I'm thinking it's not for lack of volunteers :)

The problem there is why do they have any part of a limited stash in Randland and why are they sending them on a mission that will likely kill the bearers before they can return them to the stash.

No evidence that the rings are reusable.

Or alternatively, since Tuon had planned to make TV her capital, the left behind Bloodknives could stash the rings in a prior agreed place before they die and the EVA can recover them up when the WT is eventually captured.

The hypotheticals can get quite ridiculous :)

Terez
11-09-2009, 01:04 AM
Another thing I've noticed is that certain words often aren't capitalized correctly, like Oath (referring to one sworn on the Oath Rod) and Power (referring to the One Power).

Terez
11-09-2009, 07:38 AM
"I didn't sleep with Berelain," he said, voice gruff. "No matter what the rumors say."

Dear, sweet, blunt Perrin. "I know you didn't," she said consolingly. She'd heard the rumors. Virtually every woman she'd talked to in the camp, from Aes Sedai to servant, had pretended she was trying to hold her tongue, yet spilled the same news. Perrin, spending a night in the First of Mayene's tent.

"No, really," Perrin said, a pleading tone entering his voice. "I didn't, Faile. Please."

"I said I believed you."

"You sounded . . . I don't know. Burn it, woman, you sounded jealous."

Would he never learn? "Perrin," she said flatly. "It took me the better part of a year—not to mention considerable trouble—to seduce you, and then it only worked because there was a marriage involved! Berelain hasn't the skill to handle you."
This clearly implies that Perrin and Faile didn't have sex until they were married. That is clearly not true.

Terez
11-09-2009, 08:20 AM
Also, I had thought that BS simply hadn't remembered that Sulin was with Perrin at all. But she is mentioned as being in Perrin's camp near the end of chapter 21 (she took a Brotherless as gai'shain).

Kurtz
11-09-2009, 08:30 AM
This clearly implies that Perrin and Faile didn't have sex until they were married. That is clearly not true.

I thought it was. Is someone censoring my books? :mad:

Terez
11-09-2009, 08:31 AM
Dude, they were sharing an inn room in The Dragon Reborn. Just cause we didn't get the sex on screen doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

GonzoTheGreat
11-09-2009, 08:31 AM
This clearly implies that Perrin and Faile didn't have sex until they were married. That is clearly not true.Perhaps they used the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky Method For Not Having Sex?

Kurtz
11-09-2009, 08:38 AM
Dude, they were sharing an inn room in The Dragon Reborn. Just cause we didn't get the sex on screen doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

Perhaps i'm just an innocent but I never presumed upon that. Thought their behaviour after they were married suggested newly found sexual satisfaction.

Terez
11-09-2009, 08:59 AM
Did it? Got a quote for that?

Bonzi77
11-09-2009, 09:31 AM
This clearly implies that Perrin and Faile didn't have sex until they were married. That is clearly not true.

I think it clearly is true. Perrin was goody-goody to the core back then. His Two Rivers morality would definitely have stopped him from sleeping with her, even though they were sharing a room.

Terez
11-09-2009, 09:45 AM
I saw no evidence of this particular brand of Two Rivers 'morality' from Perrin.

Davian93
11-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Dude, they were sharing an inn room in The Dragon Reborn. Just cause we didn't get the sex on screen doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

Perrin is from the Two Rivers...they won't even kiss a girl unless betrothed. I think its quite conceivable for them to share a room without bumping uglies.

Terez
11-09-2009, 09:51 AM
By that logic, they shouldn't have shared a room at all. Especially not a bed.

Davian93
11-09-2009, 09:52 AM
Just because the Deathwatch Guard is WILLING to die for the Empress doesn't mean they think they will. An equivalent would be the Secret Service. No one in the Secret Service really expects to take a bullet and die for the President but they are willing to do so. There is a difference between being WILLING and KNOWING that you will die.

GonzoTheGreat
11-09-2009, 09:53 AM
I think it clearly is true. Perrin was goody-goody to the core back then. His Two Rivers morality would definitely have stopped him from sleeping with her, even though they were sharing a room.Actually, when I went to look for it, there didn't seem to be any real evidence of room sharing to find. Of course, I didn't do a full reread of all the Perrin bits between his first meeting with Faile and the marriage, so I may have missed it.
Well, there was the night in the Tinker Wagon, but Perrin was rather busy then. As well as being wounded.

Terez
11-09-2009, 09:58 AM
Just because the Deathwatch Guard is WILLING to die for the Empress doesn't mean they think they will. An equivalent would be the Secret Service. No one in the Secret Service really expects to take a bullet and die for the President but they are willing to do so. There is a difference between being WILLING and KNOWING that you will die.
Wrong thread?

Davian93
11-09-2009, 10:06 AM
By that logic, they shouldn't have shared a room at all. Especially not a bed.

Maybe they were cold. I don't think they did anything before being married.

Davian93
11-09-2009, 10:08 AM
Wrong thread?

No, its in response to a couple comments earlier in the thread having to do with being willing to die for the Empress (by Yuri and you even).

Kurtz
11-09-2009, 11:25 AM
Did it? Got a quote for that?

yes

'Why Faile', Loial intoned, 'your face bears the aura and bliss of one who has recently found sexual satisfaction. You humans are so hasty'

Also Faile's insistence on having Perrin as her husband, 'this night' before the battle. I don't think it was that shitty bit of string that she was hankering after.

Terez
11-09-2009, 11:26 AM
She was hankering for a commitment. Something that is important to women, but seems to elude men for some reason...

Bonzi77
11-09-2009, 11:31 AM
Actually, when I went to look for it, there didn't seem to be any real evidence of room sharing to find. Of course, I didn't do a full reread of all the Perrin bits between his first meeting with Faile and the marriage, so I may have missed it.
Well, there was the night in the Tinker Wagon, but Perrin was rather busy then. As well as being wounded.

I'm at work, so I can't pull out the book to look it up, but here is Encyclopaedia-wot's description of tSR Chapter 2 (bold mine)

Perrin POV - It is two weeks since the end of TDR. Perrin and Faile are in Perrin's quarters in the Stone of Tear. Perrin thinks Faile's father is a fur trader. She is becoming friends with Bain and Chiad. Perrin has grown a beard, but does not like it. Faile is trying to talk him into leaving. She tells him he does not have to stay just because Moiraine wants him to. A cock crows. Suddenly, Perrin's axe comes alive and tries to kill him. He grabs it and holds it at bay while he shoves Faile out the door. He struggles with the axe a while longer, then slams it into the door and it goes dead. Faile is terrified for him at first, then angry.1 Perrin thinks Rand unintentionally caused the attack.2

Not conclusive, but the wording their implies they have separate quarters. I'll check when I get home unless someone else has the book handy.

Kurtz
11-09-2009, 11:34 AM
She was hankering for a commitment. Something that is important to women, but seems to elude men for some reason...

She already had the commitment, she wanted the sex.

Davian93
11-09-2009, 11:39 AM
Yes, its clear that Perrin had his own room in the Stone and at the Inn in Tear prior to the Stone. When exactly did they supposedly have sex under your scenario, T?

Ishara
11-09-2009, 05:00 PM
When exactly did they supposedly have sex under your scenario, T?

Dude. It's T. LOL.

JSUCamel
11-09-2009, 07:39 PM
Dude. It's T. LOL.

lol! have rep

Sei'taer
11-09-2009, 08:07 PM
lol! have rep

Yeah, from me too.

ShadowbaneX
11-09-2009, 08:12 PM
ugh, Ishy's disabled rep...you can give it to me instead if you want =D

Davian93
11-09-2009, 08:14 PM
ugh, Ishy's disabled rep...you can give it to me instead if you want =D

You guys should probably get a room...

ShadowbaneX
11-09-2009, 08:26 PM
why? It's so much more fun in public...

Terez
11-09-2009, 09:27 PM
Did I miss something?

Belazamon
11-09-2009, 11:26 PM
Did I miss something?
I dunno, it was clearly obvious when I read it.

Sei'taer
11-09-2009, 11:35 PM
I dunno, it was clearly obvious when I read it.


~bows~ I'm not worthy...but I will rep you too. (for real since Ishy only gets fake reps)

Belazamon
11-10-2009, 01:31 AM
I did ask about the so-called mistake with Harine and the cleansing, and Brandon confirmed that Harine was basically being cautious when speaking to Rand, and didn't want to get caught between Rand and the Wavemistresses.

Sorry, kiddo (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73179&postcount=9). Them's the breaks.

Terez
11-10-2009, 05:01 AM
I dunno, it was clearly obvious when I read it.
Good for you. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

Belazamon
11-10-2009, 01:06 PM
Good for you. Perhaps you could explain it to me?
Nah. Check the interview archive.

:p

Ishara
11-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Good for you. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

Well, I for one was lovingly mocking your love of sex, and sex-related topics. Sorry pal :) Was that the question?

Also? I love fake rep. Makes me happy.

Terez
11-11-2009, 05:34 AM
Well, I for one was lovingly mocking your love of sex, and sex-related topics. Sorry pal :)
haha, no need to apologize. I have a feeling Bela didn't get it though, lol. He just thought he did.

Sei'taer
11-11-2009, 07:50 AM
haha, no need to apologize. I have a feeling Bela didn't get it though, lol. He just thought he did.


No..he got it, because his answer was absolute perfection...almost godlike perfection.

Terez
11-11-2009, 08:21 AM
No matter what you thought of his answer, it didn't have anything to do with Ishara's meaning. And Bela hasn't been back long enough to know me all that well on that account, so I really doubt he got it. I'm sure he'll claim otherwise, but that doesn't change the fact...

Belazamon
11-12-2009, 05:59 PM
No matter what you thought of his answer, it didn't have anything to do with Ishara's meaning. And Bela hasn't been back long enough to know me all that well on that account, so I really doubt he got it. I'm sure he'll claim otherwise, but that doesn't change the fact...
Nice way of dismissing any claim I make before I make it. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'll freely admit that I merely suspected that's what she meant. Regardless, the joke was an absolutely perfect fit, and I couldn't not make it. :D

FelixPax
11-14-2009, 08:44 AM
Karldin Manfor is already Full Asha’man in KoD, Ch.27 (1st edition October 2005) on page 584, yet Karldin is only a Asha'man Soldier in tGS, Ch.48 on page 745?

He wore the red-and-gold dragon on his high black collar, now, as well as the silver sword. Every Asha'man on the hill did, even Manfor. He had only recently been raised to Delicated, but he had been one of the first to come to the Black Tower, before there was a Black Tower. Most the men who had begun with him were dead. Even Logain had not denied he deserved it.

Just to note there were over 25 Full Asha'man on the hill during this scene before meeting the Daughter of the Nine Moons (Semirhage really) including Logain, Jahar Narishma, Donalo Sandomere, Mezar Kurin, Welyn Kajima and Karldin Manfor-- according to Rand's pov (KoD,Ch.27)

Beldeine looked up from her needlework, face dark. Then, unexpectedly, she stood and left the room. Her Warder, the youthful Asha'man Soldier Karldin, followed quickly from the side chamber, crossing the room with the Aes Sedai and following Beldeine out into the hallway outside. Cadsuane gave a sniff, then turned back to her book.

So I take it Brandon had a hand in writing the Chapter "Reading the Commentary" in The Gathering Storm, not only RJ? Considering RJ expressedly pointed out that Karldin Manfor is a Full Asha'man in KoD.

Spasmodean
11-14-2009, 10:12 AM
Last line of 2nd last chapter.

When Rand sat down to think he put his head in his hands.

GonzoTheGreat
11-14-2009, 10:25 AM
Karldin Manfor is already Full Asha’man in KoD, Ch.27 (1st edition October 2005) on page 584, yet Karldin is only a Asha'man Soldier in tGS, Ch.48 on page 745?



Just to note there were over 25 Full Asha'man on the hill during this scene before meeting the Daughter of the Nine Moons (Semirhage really) including Logain, Jahar Narishma, Donalo Sandomere, Mezar Kurin, Welyn Kajima and Karldin Manfor-- according to Rand's pov (KoD,Ch.27)



So I take it Brandon had a hand in writing the Chapter "Reading the Commentary" in The Gathering Storm, not only RJ? Considering RJ expressedly pointed out that Karldin Manfor is a Full Asha'man in KoD.Perhaps Karldin has a younger brother?

Sarevok
11-14-2009, 12:48 PM
Perhaps Karldin has a younger brother?
That must then be an older brother, because if Karldin is a Soldier, the brother would be the Asha'man.
However, if there were two Manfors, Logain would have made some reference about who he was talking about, but he doesn't.

Belazamon
11-14-2009, 06:28 PM
When Rand sat down to think he put his head in his hands.
Clearly the other hand was actually Moridin's.

Spasmodean
11-16-2009, 05:35 PM
Noticed another in the Prologue in Graendal's POV.
She refers to her manipulation of saidar as weaving and webs, whereas she should have been talking about spinning etc.

Just a little more inconsistency, particularly since RJ made such a kerfuffle about how Rand internalised his thinking about such things.