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reTaardad
11-06-2009, 12:37 AM
The Gathering Storm
Chapter 40 - The Tower Shakes

"I always wondered what that would feel like, Bryne said, raising his hand and making a fist a few times in the torchlight. He sounded amazed. Would that I could give this to each man in my army!"
Siuan sniffed. "I highly doubt that their wives and families would approve of that."
"They would if it kept the soldiers alive," Bryne said. "I could run a thousand leagues and never want for breath. I could stand against a hundred foes at once and laugh at them all."

When I first considered this, I thought it'd be cool, but I doubted that it'd ever happen in the books. But now that I think about it more, it'd almost be stupid for the Aes Sedai to not do this. A nearly invincible army of Warders going toe-to-toe with ten times their number of Trollocs? Um, yes please.

nameless
11-06-2009, 01:32 AM
Of course, there's always the months of agonizing, soul-wrenching depression that accompanies a Warder's death, but with the whole world at stake, everyone's gotta make sacrifices, right? I'd personally nominate the White Ajah for "bond as many soldiers as possible" duty. A little emotion'd be good for them.

a dragonburned fool
11-06-2009, 06:35 AM
Probably Bryne would later think also about other consequences. As e.g.: one Aes Sedai killed by a stray arrow and a whole regiment goes amok...

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 06:55 AM
Which is better than the merely dropping dead that Trollocs do, isn't it?

Davian93
11-06-2009, 07:14 AM
On the warder bond in general, one thing has always bothered me: How do both sides benefit from the Bond? How can the warder feel stronger and faster while the AS is also able to draw off her warder's strength? It can't create energy, it can merely transmit it from Bonder to Bondee. I have to assume that the AS feels a drag if the Warder is going above and beyond. Otherwise, it would make no sense.

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 07:22 AM
It may be that they're both drawing on the OP. That would make the warder-AS pair some sort of living ter'angreal.

Test for this: lure them into a Stedding, then poison them there and see whether or not they drop dead sooner than they would have done outside it.

Davian93
11-06-2009, 07:24 AM
It may be that they're both drawing on the OP. That would make the warder-AS pair some sort of living ter'angreal.

Test for this: lure them into a Stedding, then poison them there and see whether or not they drop dead sooner than they would have done outside it.

I like it. We should start with the Red Ajah though. Force them all to bond a bunch of warders and then start poisoning them one by one.

ShadowbaneX
11-06-2009, 08:28 AM
Which is better than the merely dropping dead that Trollocs do, isn't it?
see Myrddraal

Lord Bloodpath
11-06-2009, 08:39 AM
^ pretty sure that was the point. Warder > Trolloc army because warders can each slay many more trollocs than vice versa and on top of that, kill a mydraal and a fist may drop dead, kill an AS and a regiment may go on a berserker spree

Tree Brother
11-06-2009, 11:10 AM
It may be that they're both drawing on the OP. That would make the warder-AS pair some sort of living ter'angreal.

The ring ter'angreal used by the seanchan assassins seems like a warder bond, without the AS-connection. However those rings work, may be similar to how the bond works. Accept the bond has a constant renewal, unlike the ring.

GonzoTheGreat
11-06-2009, 11:16 AM
What would happen if a Warder got such a ring?
Perhaps Rand could get one, and assasinate the DO.

greatwolf
11-06-2009, 04:54 PM
On the warder bond in general, one thing has always bothered me: How do both sides benefit from the Bond? How can the warder feel stronger and faster while the AS is also able to draw off her warder's strength? It can't create energy, it can merely transmit it from Bonder to Bondee. I have to assume that the AS feels a drag if the Warder is going above and beyond. Otherwise, it would make no sense.

It works by magik.

Anything else?

Perhaps your premise is based on the bond between Elayne and Birgitte, we cannot be certain that the bonds works as any other bond would since Birgitte was not 'born' the normal way.

The warder bond is said to be like a link but nothing in linking that we've seen suggests that a link confers physical advantage or allows either party to draw strength. So the bond may contain 'extras'.

The suldam thingy also offers a different proposition entirely. It brings the suldam closer to channeling. But no mention is made of augmenting the suldam physically iirc.

Since AS slow, and their warders share what they have, they may be showing this in their increased physical capacities.

But its a maybe situation.

ShadowbaneX
11-06-2009, 05:34 PM
actually, the point behind the Warder Bond (imo) was likely as a failed attempt to force male channelers into a link. If you think about it is simulates many of the things that one feels while in the link, shared feelings/sensations/location, but it also adds an element of control into it for the female channeler, something that would have been useful for men who were slowly going crazy.

The horrible part after one of them dies was just a nasty side-effect. Still turned out to be somewhat useful though.

steave435
11-06-2009, 06:57 PM
The ring ter'angreal used by the seanchan assassins seems like a warder bond, without the AS-connection. However those rings work, may be similar to how the bond works. Accept the bond has a constant renewal, unlike the ring.
Seems more like a gray man thing to me, they just become much harder to see, I don't think it's said that they get stronger, they're strong because it's the elite of the elite that are chosen for the job. The reason warders are hard to see is because of their colour shifting cloaks, not the bond.


Regarding all-warder armies, the bond make warders grow stronger and faster (as Bryne mentions, it's the only reason he manage to kill the bloodknife fast enough), however, the "warder=SuperSoldier" thing is probably not automatic, it's just that the bond enhance the very good combat skills that a warder is required to already have in order for an AS to consider bonding him.

Davian93
11-06-2009, 07:03 PM
Seems more like a gray man thing to me, they just become much harder to see, I don't think it's said that they get stronger, they're strong because it's the elite of the elite that are chosen for the job. The reason warders are hard to see is because of their colour shifting cloaks, not the bond.

That would be correct as it basically drains their soul till they die.


Regarding all-warder armies, the bond make warders grow stronger and faster (as Bryne mentions, it's the only reason he manage to kill the bloodknife fast enough), however, the "warder=SuperSoldier" thing is probably not automatic, it's just that the bond enhance the very good combat skills that a warder is required to already have in order for an AS to consider bonding him.

Pretty much. A non-warder can defeat a warder if he's good (see Gawyn vs. Hammar, etc). It merely enhances a good soldier to be a bit better and run a bit further and move a bit faster.

Jonai
11-06-2009, 07:09 PM
I don't know, I took Bryne's speech as hyperbole on Bryne/s/Sanderson's part. I thought it was always described as increased vitality and endurance, as well as increased length of vitality as you grow older. I don't think I've seen Rand or anybody else get bonded and then suddenly go, I have the power and punch through a stone wall or anything.

Davian93
11-06-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't know, I took Bryne's speech as hyperbole on Bryne/s/Sanderson's part. I thought it was always described as increased vitality and endurance, as well as increased length of vitality as you grow older. I don't think I've seen Rand or anybody else get bonded and then suddenly go, I have the power and punch through a stone wall or anything.

Did someone imply that? Bryne was definitely exagerating as it was like drinking from the fountain of youth for him.

tworiverswoman
11-07-2009, 11:24 PM
Barnes and Noble Chat - October 1998

Question: Stormy Conner from Texas: I would first like to say thank you for writing this wonderful series; it has been a pleasure reading the series and becoming familiar with your characters. My question, I believe, has been answered in the books but I want to clarify it in case I have been reading too much into it. Is the gift the Aes Sedai get from the bonding the ability to take or drain energy from their Warder for their own use? I believe this was stated in New Spring at the end, but I didn't know if it was a literal statement or figurative. Thank you for your time.
Answer: That is one of the gifts. She can draw as much strength as she needs -- as a matter of fact, she could take it all. In other words, she could kill him. - Robert Jordan

Matoyak
11-08-2009, 12:21 AM
Tru, that seems like a DISCTINTIVE disadvantage to the warder if he ever married his AS.
AS: "You're late...again."
Warder: "Get off my back, woman"
AS: ~drains life~
Warder: "Ack"
>__>

Lord Bloodpath
11-08-2009, 01:27 AM
This also seems to indicate that Alanna (or any of the other three) could kill Rand at any time.

EDIT: unless bonding a male channeler changes the whole equation.

Matoyak
11-08-2009, 01:38 AM
This also seems to indicate that Alanna (or any of the other three) could kill Rand at any time.

EDIT: unless bonding a male channeler changes the whole equation.Not too certain on the whole Min/Avi/Elayne one though. It was a heavily modified weave, and Min can't channel.

But that's separate from the Alana one. In that case, Alana could probably killificate him at any time, yeah. Scary thought. No wonder it's such a forbidden thing to take a warder without asking first...

Belazamon
11-08-2009, 02:37 AM
This also seems to indicate that Alanna (or any of the other three) could kill Rand at any time.

EDIT: unless bonding a male channeler changes the whole equation.
I figure this is the case. The mild compulsion effect doesn't take on Rand, I doubt this one would either.