PDA

View Full Version : Egwene, Leilwin, Seanchan


Kalli
11-09-2009, 06:12 AM
Could Leilwin be the one Egwene dreamed of with the sword? I can't think of anyone else fitting the bill.

Terez
11-09-2009, 06:37 AM
She might be. There seem to be a bunch of people that think that vision has been fulfilled already, though (that the dream was a metaphor for the Seanchan attack helping Egwene gain the Tower).

GonzoTheGreat
11-09-2009, 07:29 AM
For the record: I don't think that (the attack on the WT) is what the vision is about, but I did think it worthwhile to raise the possibility.

Leilwin seems the most logical candidate, since she is a sword wielding Seanchan female who wants to get away from her former country. It is not quite clear to me what help she could offer Egwene, though.

Terez
11-09-2009, 07:35 AM
For the record: I don't think that (the attack on the WT) is what the vision is about, but I did think it worthwhile to raise the possibility.
No one ever said it wasn't, contrary to popular belief.

ShadowbaneX
11-09-2009, 08:32 AM
Another possible candidate would be Amerasu, a Heroine of the Horn (would explain the many faces) that wielded the Sword of the Sun (why the sword would be so sharply defined), but the Seanchan attack on Tar Valon/Egwene's reunification of the Tower makes alot of sense for that Dream.

Weird Harold
11-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Could Leilwin be the one Egwene dreamed of with the sword? I can't think of anyone else fitting the bill.
Leilwin is a possible candidate for the Seanchan woman standing next to Egwene when she confronts Rand, but she no longer carries a sword.

The dream of the Seanchan woman with a sword is about the sword, not the woman -- or is about "women who ARE a sword," i.e. damane or sul'dam. Even if the participation of damane and sul'dam in the attack isn't sufficient to fulfill the Dream, there are now several sul'dam and damane in the tower to choose from and two former sul'dam with Mat & co a simple gateway from Tar Valon with Mat and Elayne to vouch for them and shame Egwene into overcoming her prejudices.

FelixPax
11-09-2009, 09:11 PM
For the record: I don't think that (the attack on the WT) is what the vision is about, but I did think it worthwhile to raise the possibility.

Leilwin seems the most logical candidate, since she is a sword wielding Seanchan female who wants to get away from her former country. It is not quite clear to me what help she could offer Egwene, though.

Leilwin, would have specific knowledge about the forces the Seanchan have within the Westlands. Her prior position as a naval commander with the Return and how the Seanchan society is setup is unique information. Why? Because the Sul'dam and Damane live every different lives from the common soldiers and the Blood. Besides she was previously raised to the Blood, and she should have unique information about how the specific Seanchan military divisions operate in practice. That information would be a gold mine to Egwene.

Leilwin's new husband Bayle Domon would have unique information about the ports across the Westlands both pre and post Seanchan return; and separately would have unique knowledge about the Sea Folk and their prophecies of the Coramoor.

Leilwin is a possible candidate for the Seanchan woman standing next to Egwene when she confronts Rand, but she no longer carries a sword.

Why do you believe these are of the very same event? Any possible Seanchan candidate to be standing next to Egwene with Rand is likely to be a former Sul'dam who has now become an Aes Sedai.

nameless
11-09-2009, 09:50 PM
Leilwin's certainly a strong candidate for that dream. The other possibilities include Tylee, who wasn't nearly as revolted by the Aes Sedai she met as her comrade Mishima, some random Seanchan woman we haven't been introduced to yet (possibly one of the Reborn Heroes), or that the woman in the dream was really a metaphor for an entire strike force and the cooperation of the dream was really a metaphor for violent conflict.

Leilwin takes the lead because she A) wore a sword strapped across her back instead of on her belt B) has cooperated with Aes Sedai in the past and C) forswore the Seanchan empire, leaving her a free agent, whereas the rest of the Seanchan are presently at war with the White Tower.

Belazamon
11-09-2009, 10:38 PM
Okay, jumping back in here.

I think the main reason I like the idea of the Seanchan attack being the fulfillment of this particular Dream is this: I think Egwene's storyline has reached its climax. I've absolutely no doubt there will still be stuff to do in the White Tower, and Egwene and co. will be right at the thick of the Last Battle, but it seems like this is a very involved and important and Egwene-centric Dream, and I really feel like the Egwene-centric storyline is pretty well wrapped up.

All you guys going into all these intricate and convoluted theories about what will happen with Egwene and the White Tower next - I just don't think we're going to see a lot of that, to be frank. Next book is gonna be a lot of Ghenjei and Perrin (ugh) and Black Tower and probably a dash of Tuon/Seanchan, and the last book will be the endgame.

That's my two cents. Take it or leave it - I'm sure most of you will leave it. ;)

FelixPax
11-09-2009, 11:41 PM
Yo, Bela? :)
Isn't there that little foretold meeting between the Amyrlin Seat and the Dragon Reborn still up in the air? Wouldn't that be a climax in the storyline, from the Sea Folk clans pov and their own prophecies? Second, isn't why wouldn't Egwene and newly reunited White Tower get involved in the affairs of the Black Tower, after Aes Sedai had disappeared in route there? One Tower has been cleansed of darkfriend channelers, so why shouldn't Egwene have a role in the 2nd Tower being cleansed of darkfriends too?

What's your definition of climax for Egwene, Bela? Chuckles...did you forget Gawyn? ;)


Okay, jumping back in here.
...
That's my two cents. Take it or leave it - I'm sure most of you will leave it. ;)

Nah, why not have fun with it? :D

Belazamon
11-10-2009, 12:06 AM
Yo, Bela? :)
Isn't there that little foretold meeting between the Amyrlin Seat and the Dragon Reborn still up in the air? Wouldn't that be a climax in the storyline, from the Sea Folk clans pov and their own prophecies?
As mentioned, I'm not implying that Egwene doesn't have stuff to do still. I just think the specifically Egwene-centric stuff has (more or less) drawn to a close. This plot point could easily be from Rand's PoV rather than hers.

Second, isn't why wouldn't Egwene and newly reunited White Tower get involved in the affairs of the Black Tower, after Aes Sedai had disappeared in route there?
Because, in terms of getting the plotline wrapped up, the people already in the Black Tower itself are far more important.

What's your definition of climax for Egwene, Bela? Chuckles...did you forget Gawyn? ;)
I'm trying, I'm trying.:rolleyes:


Anyway, yeah. All the things you mentioned are what I was acknowledging when I said that "there will still be stuff to do in the White Tower, and Egwene and co. will be right at the thick of the Last Battle."

Terez
11-10-2009, 04:13 AM
I believe Mesaana might still be in the Tower, so there's still plenty of potential for conflict there.

Enigma
11-10-2009, 06:12 AM
I don't have the books in front of me but going from memory Egwene had two distinct deams. First there were the ravens swooping down and second she was walking up the cliff face and the path collapsed and the helpfull Seanchan woman showed up.

With dreams it could be two different interpretations of the same event but I took it to be two seperate events. Added to that there was the dream where she is facing the chop and someone is racing to save her. Siuan & Byrne did find her but when she collapsed Egwene was not in any real danger the Seanchan had been more or less driven off.

That could well mean that Egwene has still some fun times ahead of her.

Kalli
11-10-2009, 06:53 AM
No basis, but the last significant threat left in the tower (except Aes Sedai themselves) is Messena. So somehow an ex-Seanchan gives aid to her after Messena does her bit to destabilize everything Egwene's done. 'Helping her on her path' Again, no basis and probably to literal to ever happen in the WoT.

GonzoTheGreat
11-10-2009, 07:17 AM
Isn't there that little foretold meeting between the Amyrlin Seat and the Dragon Reborn still up in the air? Wouldn't that be a climax in the storyline, from the Sea Folk clans pov and their own prophecies?Brilliant!
I wish I'd thought of combining those.

So Egwene is going to kneel to wash his feet and dry them with her own hair.
Hard to think of whose POV would be best for that scene. Perhaps Rand's, with him wondering the whole time what the AS are up to, and never getting a clue.

Yuri33
11-10-2009, 07:47 AM
I believe Mesaana might still be in the Tower, so there's still plenty of potential for conflict there.

Sure, perhaps for the "head on the chopping block" dream or Gawyn dreams, but I don't think it fits the cliff/Seanchan dreams.

Terez
11-10-2009, 08:01 AM
It depends on what Mesaana is planning to do. She will evidently be responsible for the chopping block thing, but that doesn't mean she won't try something more mundane first.

lurk
11-10-2009, 08:50 AM
Another path I am thinking about is general Tylee. She is female, a soldier so the discription could fit. AND she is busy trying to convince the high blood that maybe they should not fight the randlanders but cooperate in line of the trolloc threat.

And Elaida is in the hands of the Seanchan, they will pry traveling from her. There is no oath wriggleroom for elaida to keep that bit of info from the suldam under some "gentle" pressure.
And the Seanchan still think the AS have a very powerful weapon. That is what prompted the attack on the power the most.
Also, it will be hard for the surviving suldam/damane to report that they have effectively been twarted by a single AS. That particular AS will be a major enemy for the Seanchan So egwene is a target, if it becomes known she was that channeler, and that may very well be pretty soon because she is now the amyrlin seat, news that will reach the seanchan soon.

so the steep cliff maybe the peacemaking with the seanchan (something that will certainly be hard for Egwene (hence the steep cliff)). But maybe Tylee would operate as a facilitator. Would mean her aqcuuaintance with Perrin needs to become known. maybe via perrin --> morgase --> elayne -->egwene?

Enigma
11-10-2009, 10:25 AM
General Tylee might feel strongly enough about the matter to speak her mind to Tuon but would she feel strongly enough about it to go on a solo run in defiance of the empress? She seems too loyal for that.

lurk
11-10-2009, 10:57 AM
General Tylee might feel strongly enough about the matter to speak her mind to Tuon but would she feel strongly enough about it to go on a solo run in defiance of the empress? She seems too loyal for that.

She has the balls to speak her mind, she had the balls to fight alongside marath damane. She is very courageous, honorable and I guess pretty damn smart too. And she actually liked Perrin and his bunch, not only professionally also on a more personal level. So Why not

OH She has not yet mentioned the wolf king to fortuona, wonder what that will do, especially what that specific piece of prophecy means to the seanchan