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El Bogarto
11-10-2009, 04:35 PM
Hi all, just a quick question - how do you think Rand is getting off of Dragonmount?
The symbolism was great, especially thinking back on the talk Rand and Nyneave had in 'Convo with the Dragon', but I seem to remember Rand thinking at the beginning of the chapter that he was unsure if he could seize the source again.
Will someone have to come after him to bring him down? Maybe the other part of realizing that he can survive the climb to the top of the mountain is realizing that he needs help. I'm just wondering if Rand will be all better and just Travel down, or if someone will have to bring him home (as an aside, it would be hilarious if it was Narishma).

ShadowbaneX
11-10-2009, 04:51 PM
If it's going to be anyone it's going to be Aviendha or Elayne since a) they'll more or less know where he is (more if they actually Travel to Tar Valon) and b) they'll be the ones to know that he's in trouble/dying from being on top of a mountain and unable to leave.

Personally, there's been nothing to suggest that he can no longer Travel so I'm gonna go with the idea that he still can.

jana
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
he was holding the power the whole time I thought.


If not, he'll probably try to seize the source, trip and fall into the lava, and never be heard from again.

Bonzi77
11-10-2009, 04:57 PM
Rand could, and was holding the source right up until he destroyed the Choedan Kal, so he can probably still channel and therefor travel. But if he can't, maybe that would lead the way to the fulfilling of Egwene's mountain climbing dream.

Crispin's Crispian
11-10-2009, 06:06 PM
Maybe the Red Ajah, which is now the fire department, will be dispatched to get him down.

JSUCamel
11-10-2009, 07:05 PM
Rand could, and was holding the source right up until he destroyed the Choedan Kal, so he can probably still channel and therefor travel. But if he can't, maybe that would lead the way to the fulfilling of Egwene's mountain climbing dream.

Alivia will pop out of the lava, say "Hi Rand!", cause Rand to freak out and accidentally release the Source, fall into the pit, and die, only to have the mountain erupt, spewing him forth like spitwad from a straw, landing him on the top of the White Tower whereupon he is discovered by the Amyrlin Seat herself, Healed of death by a ter'angreal that Verin left behind, and given an earful with much tuggings of the braid and knuckling of the forehead.

Prophecy fulfilled. A bunch of them.

That was rather easy.

Bonzi77
11-10-2009, 07:07 PM
Alivia will pop out of the lava, say "Hi Rand!", cause Rand to freak out and accidentally release the Source, fall into the pit, and die, only to have the mountain erupt, spewing him forth like spitwad from a straw, landing him on the top of the White Tower whereupon he is discovered by the Amyrlin Seat herself, Healed of death by a ter'angreal that Verin left behind, and given an earful with much tuggings of the braid and knuckling of the forehead.

Prophecy fulfilled. A bunch of them.

That was rather easy.

If Terry Goodkind wrote WoT fanfic, it would read a lot like this.

legends be wrought
11-10-2009, 10:23 PM
TGS 752: "Then he seized saidin. The Sickness washed across him more powerfully than it ever had before. The force of it knocking him down like a physical blow."

TGS 755: "He still held the Source. He didnt dare let go. The last time he'd seized it had been the worst he could remember, and he feared that the sickness would overpower him if he tried again."

TGS 758: "The Power coming to him through the access key was greater than he'd held when cleansing saidin. Perhaps greater than any man had ever held. Great enough to unravel the pattern itself and bring final peace"

TGS 759-760: "The power within him reached a crescendo, and he turned it upon itself, drove it through the access key."
"The Choedan Kal exploded. The power winked out. The tempest ended"

So he did release the power and may be afraid of taking hold of it again. Also he may be unable to, as is common when wielders of the One Power over-extend themselves. As for the rescuer being Elyane, i find that unlikely cause she seems in very late pregnancy adn the last thing she needs is to be on top of Randland's highest mountain. Aviendha is a likely possibility should Rand need a lift, as is logain as he would have felt such a massive channeling of saidin.

jana
11-10-2009, 10:32 PM
Alivia will pop out of the lava, say "Hi Rand!", cause Rand to freak out and accidentally release the Source, fall into the pit, and die, only to have the mountain erupt, spewing him forth like spitwad from a straw, landing him on the top of the White Tower whereupon he is discovered by the Amyrlin Seat herself, Healed of death by a ter'angreal that Verin left behind, and given an earful with much tuggings of the braid and knuckling of the forehead.

Prophecy fulfilled. A bunch of them.

That was rather easy.

I deamn this an epic thread.

Greyman
11-11-2009, 02:21 AM
As for the rescuer being Elyane, i find that unlikely cause she seems in very late pregnancy adn the last thing she needs is to be on top of Randland's highest mountain.Indeed; look at all the trouble the last pregnant Andoran girl on the mount caused.

Bonzi77
11-11-2009, 06:34 AM
So he did release the power and may be afraid of taking hold of it again. Also he may be unable to, as is common when wielders of the One Power over-extend themselves. As for the rescuer being Elyane, i find that unlikely cause she seems in very late pregnancy adn the last thing she needs is to be on top of Randland's highest mountain. Aviendha is a likely possibility should Rand need a lift, as is logain as he would have felt such a massive channeling of saidin.

If he can't actually channel, they'd better get to him in a hurry, otherwise they'll find a Rand shaped ice cube in his place. When he first gets to the top of dragonmount, he needed an air and fire weave to keep himself warm. He's not going to last long on the top of the tallest mountain in the world if he has no way to keep himself warm.

Ivhon
11-11-2009, 07:08 AM
I rather suspect the sickness was psychosomatic and that now that his inner conflicts are resolved the sickness will dissipate.

Terez
11-11-2009, 07:12 AM
hmmm, I doubt it. The sickness seems definitively tied to his link with Moridin, as it didn't start until after the balefire incident.

Ozymandias
11-11-2009, 09:10 AM
hmmm, I doubt it. The sickness seems definitively tied to his link with Moridin, as it didn't start until after the balefire incident.

Its also probably the Taint, in part. And just by Cleansing the Source, he doesn't reverse the already-occured effects.

Secondly, there is no way Rand can't embrace the Power again. He didn't burn himself out, because angreal and sa'angreal have buffers in place that prevent the user from overdrawing. Also, he can hardly defeat the Dark One without the Power, and the Pattern won't let that happen through something as simple as overdrawing, I'm sure. I doubt in the 4th Age everyone is walking around, talking about the defeat of the DO, saying the one-armed man did it. We all know how implausible that is.

But I do think some of the problems with the sickness will subside. And lets not forget that without the possibility of LTT seizing the Source, some of Rand's hesitancy will go away.

legends be wrought
11-11-2009, 11:04 AM
Secondly, there is no way Rand can't embrace the Power again. He didn't burn himself out, because angreal and sa'angreal have buffers in place that prevent the user from overdrawing.

I was referring to the temporary difficulty associated with channeling the power after holding far to much for too long. It physically weakens the channeler and prevents them (usually) from being able to hold, much less channel, the power needed for a gateway. Take for example Egwene against the SC at the white tower. Even with a sa'angreal and a circle she was eventually unable to do anything with the power. It has also been mentioned in the past that the more power held, the less time required before hitting this point of uselessness. While this affect is temporary, it could have problems for rand considering hes on a very tall and cold mountain, if he has indeed reached a point where he cant channel enough to make a gateway (although he will probably have enough strength to warm some air).

Terez
11-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Another example is Nynaeve at the Cleansing - Cadsuane had to Heal her to keep her from passing out from exhaustion from channeling all that Power. It may be that Sharina or Talaan, or one of the Forsaken, could have handled it without passing out, but Nynaeve apparently wasn't strong enough.

PatsNats28
11-11-2009, 09:44 PM
I'm surprised that you guys think that he won't be able to channel... he's pretty experienced as a channeller, only thing I can see is that he's suddenly physically exhausted after wielding that much of the Power. But were that to be the case, Min could feel it and tell like Nynaeve or something.

Ozymandias
11-11-2009, 10:24 PM
Another example is Nynaeve at the Cleansing - Cadsuane had to Heal her to keep her from passing out from exhaustion from channeling all that Power. It may be that Sharina or Talaan, or one of the Forsaken, could have handled it without passing out, but Nynaeve apparently wasn't strong enough.

Nynaeve is not is strong as Rand. Rand was channeling a relatively equal amount of the Power for hours, at the Cleansing. He was embracing it for all of ten minutes this time.

Also, and I may be mistaken, I thought there was a distinct difference between channeling and holding the Power. I believe Rand is merely drawing enough to break the Choedan Kal from overuse in this case, whereas other times we see channelers actively wielding and directing the flows.

In any case, using the Cleansing as a basis, Rand came nowhere near his limits. He was channeling a slightly greater amount for a fractionally smaller amount of time. Its not comparable.

GonzoTheGreat
11-12-2009, 05:36 AM
I'm surprised that you guys think that he won't be able to channel... he's pretty experienced as a channeller, only thing I can see is that he's suddenly physically exhausted after wielding that much of the Power. But were that to be the case, Min could feel it and tell like Nynaeve or something.At one point there, he contemplated that he had to hold on to the source because if he let go, he might not be able to grab it again. Yet, at the end, he did let go. So, will he be able to embrace the OP again in time to save himself? Read and find out, read and find out. :p

1Powerslave
11-12-2009, 07:04 AM
I rather suspect the sickness was psychosomatic and that now that his inner conflicts are resolved the sickness will dissipate.I thought this as well after reading the final chapter. Maybe the crossing of the Balefire beams acted as a catalyst for Rand's psyche related sickness that he associated with the Power. Did Moridin show any effects of power sickness right after their meeting in Shadar Logoth? Or are his effects only indirect through the bond with Rand?
Previously, the best conclusion seemed to be that the sickness was caused by the crossing of the Balefire beams and the taint affecting Rand. As Terez points out it matched well with the first appearance of the sickness and that event. But I think that during tGS (the last chapters especially, foremost the scene in Ebou Dar) the sickness' escalation matched very well with the progression of Rand's psychological/LTT problems, the reintegration.
The sickness does strike me as similar to the mental blocks wilders may have.

Or, maybe the sickness was the Pattern's way of telling Rand that what was happening to his mind was wrong. The bond with Moridin, his arch nemesis, would fit as the start of the sickness in that the Pattern wouldn't like that path opening to him being influenced by the Shadow's champion. E.g. the Fisher mustn't be controlled by the Shadow. Maybe the Pattern would have inserted this block completely if Rand turned to the Shadow, or turned into doing too chaotic acts as in Ebou Dar. However if Rand were at peace with going to the Shadow, maybe then the Pattern couldn't have done this...
As Rand drifted more and more towards chaos, i.e. not being in total control of himself, with LTT sometimes grabbing the Power etc., the Pattern sought to limit the power of the Dragon Reborn. Inserting the block to his channeling.

Kurtz
11-12-2009, 07:12 AM
A hypothermic death on the slopes of Dragonmount though delightfully ironic, would be somewhat of an anti-climax.

Bonzi77
11-12-2009, 07:42 AM
I thought this as well after reading the final chapter. Maybe the crossing of the Balefire beams acted as a catalyst for Rand's psyche related sickness that he associated with the Power. Did Moridin show any effects of power sickness right after their meeting in Shadar Logoth? Or are his effects only indirect through the bond with Rand?
Previously, the best conclusion seemed to be that the sickness was caused by the crossing of the Balefire beams and the taint affecting Rand. As Terez points out it matched well with the first appearance of the sickness and that event. But I think that during tGS (the last chapters especially, foremost the scene in Ebou Dar) the sickness' escalation matched very well with the progression of Rand's psychological/LTT problems, the reintegration.
The sickness does strike me as similar to the mental blocks wilders may have.

Or, maybe the sickness was the Pattern's way of telling Rand that what was happening to his mind was wrong. The bond with Moridin, his arch nemesis, would fit as the start of the sickness in that the Pattern wouldn't like that path opening to him being influenced by the Shadow's champion. E.g. the Fisher mustn't be controlled by the Shadow. Maybe the Pattern would have inserted this block completely if Rand turned to the Shadow, or turned into doing too chaotic acts as in Ebou Dar. However if Rand were at peace with going to the Shadow, maybe then the Pattern couldn't have done this...
As Rand drifted more and more towards chaos, i.e. not being in total control of himself, with LTT sometimes grabbing the Power etc., the Pattern sought to limit the power of the Dragon Reborn. Inserting the block to his channeling.

Moridin uses the True Power almost exclusively, but otherwise I think this is a phenomenal theory.

Belazamon
11-12-2009, 05:10 PM
Did Moridin show any effects of power sickness right after their meeting in Shadar Logoth? Or are his effects only indirect through the bond with Rand?
We've had a couple of debates on this. There seem to be at least two schools of thought on the matter.

Spasmodean
11-12-2009, 06:39 PM
I'm pretty sure Moridin feels some sort of link to Rand.

In the Forsaken tea party where he forbids rescue of Semirhage doesn't he seem rather upset that Rand was physically injured and some sort of discomfort with his hand is mentioned?

Edit: Just went and re-read it, and gave an express order that Rand was not to be harmed and from Graendal's POV he seems to be flexing his hand with a pained expression on his face.

Kurtz
11-12-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm pretty sure Moridin feels some sort of link to Rand.

In the Forsaken tea party where he forbids rescue of Semirhage doesn't he seem rather upset that Rand was physically injured and some sort of discomfort with his hand is mentioned?

Edit: Just went and re-read it, and gave an express order that Rand was not to be harmed and from Graendal's POV he seems to be flexing his hand with a pained expression on his face.

The life of the Nae'blis can be a lonely one in fairness to him.

Terez
11-12-2009, 07:40 PM
I don't think anyone was disputing the link - there are just some people that dispute the connection between the link and the sickness.

Ishara
11-13-2009, 08:21 AM
The life of the Nae'blis can be a lonely one in fairness to him.

This. Made my life. Rep'd.