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Terez
11-12-2009, 09:35 PM
I'm not going for the huge and obvious things here, really. Little things are good. For example:

1. I love how Min was used to rile Aviendha up enough to finally reject her punishment. I was thinking 'Oh no! Aviendha is mad at Min!' but she ended up being grateful to her when it led her to the solution to her problem.

2. Shemerin's yellow scarf. Nice touch, to show she was being nostalgic even in her dismal state of mind.

3. Egwene, to Verin: 'You never held the Oath Rod!' Great reference to someone asking RJ THE WRONG QUESTION. :D

4. Nynaeve: 'I wish Moiraine were here.'

Matoyak
11-12-2009, 09:37 PM
Nynaeve: 'I wish Moiraine were here.'THIS. About fuckin' time...

Bonzi77
11-12-2009, 09:45 PM
"I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity in your statement."-- Moridin, fast becoming my favorite villain.

Terez
11-12-2009, 09:46 PM
haha, yeah he's always been my favorite villain, and that quote did rock. But in the same vein...

"You were always so full of thoughts, Elan." — Rand

Bonzi77
11-12-2009, 09:47 PM
God I loved that scene. Worked on so many levels. On the shortlist of my favorite scenes ever.

Terez
11-12-2009, 09:53 PM
I loved that whole chapter. When he woke up, it was him and Min arguing real vs construct. AWESOME. And Min was so obviously right...

Kurtz
11-12-2009, 10:01 PM
Moiraine

Every brief mention was succour to my soul

Also Faile's almost sympathetic dispatching of Masema. The girl has ice in her veins :cool:

GonzoTheGreat
11-13-2009, 04:38 AM
"This is what we all get," Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want." -- Which was then of course immediately ignored, because none of the listeners was really willing to accept this truth.

matrimzombie
11-13-2009, 08:47 AM
Tam calling Cadsuane a bully.... OMG.. Loved it!

Mort
11-13-2009, 09:28 AM
"This is what we all get," Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want." -- Which was then of course immediately ignored, because none of the listeners was really willing to accept this truth.

I actually thought the silence right after spoke of how they knew, deep down, that they knew how utterly pointless their attempt had been.

I liked the passage just before that one too. Where Tam calls Cadsuane a bully and it seemed to get to her a little. THAT is a lesson all Aes Sedai should learn, that just because they have the power doesn't set them higher than other people per default. The Wise Ones have a better way of it by far, even though that usually just includes other non channeling Wise Ones.

I also like the passage where Tam asks Rand why he fights, and later when Rand realizes why he does it on top of dragonmount.

The "A Conversation with the Dragon" chapter is also a really good chapter over all.

Ishara
11-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Elaborate aliases with backstories. I know it's been said to death. But STILL.

Yellowbeard
11-13-2009, 09:45 AM
tam's confrontation w/ cadsuane after rand almost balefired him. tam rocked!

the conversation between rand and moridin. rand's realization the forsaken are being recycled are cool. moridin letting him that balefire ensures they can't be brought back...really dumb on moridin's part. unless moridin wants rand to balefire the rest of the forsaken.

i personally like the way graendal was dispatched. we've seen several knockdown type fights between rand/others and the forsaken. one more would have been a repeat of the exact same thing. it's about time rand managed to effectively ambush one of them.

egwene remembering watching sheriam and the other black ajah members being beheaded.

Bonzi77
11-13-2009, 09:45 AM
Tam calling Cadsuane a bully.... OMG.. Loved it!

Tam is a great underrated character. RJ spent 11 books subtly setting him up as a moral center but keeping him out of the spotlight and away from Rand. Which really made the climax at the end where they finally reunite powerful.

Spasmodean
11-13-2009, 09:57 AM
I liked the short conversation between Fortuona and Selucia as they watch the air raid depart.
Re-inforced the theme of choice and why people are fighting that was touched on a lot in the book.

Yellowbeard
11-13-2009, 10:48 AM
I liked the short conversation between Fortuona and Selucia as they watch the air raid depart.
Re-inforced the theme of choice and why people are fighting that was touched on a lot in the book.

that scene reminded me of the japanese admirals watching their planes take off for the pearl harbor raid in "tora, tora, tora!" and/or "pearl harbor".

amazinglarry
11-13-2009, 10:59 AM
I liked the Lews Therin real vs. construct discussion between Rand and Min. I got the impression it was put there as a shout-out to all the hardcore fans who have dissected the topic ad nauseum here on other internet forums.

amazinglarry

Ishara
11-13-2009, 11:17 AM
Oh. Also, Verin.

WoT has made me cry a total of twice before. This makes it three. Loved her and her Light soul.

Devlin1969
11-13-2009, 11:50 AM
"This is what we all get," Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want." -- Which was then of course immediately ignored, because none of the listeners was really willing to accept this truth.

I actually thought the silence right after spoke of how they knew, deep down, that they knew how utterly pointless their attempt had been.


@Mort
I completely agree. The silence says they all heard Min and knew her words to be true.
I am really looking forward to reading Rand and Cad's next meeting in ToM.

Bonzi77
11-13-2009, 12:09 PM
Oh. Also, Verin.

WoT has made me cry a total of twice before. This makes it three. Loved her and her Light soul.

What were the other two, out of curiosity?

Kurtz
11-13-2009, 12:14 PM
I actually thought the silence right after spoke of how they knew, deep down, that they knew how utterly pointless their attempt had been.


Agreed. Not that what they had tried to do was wrong (though it probably was), but that nothing they tried to do was going to work. This was something Rand needed to deal with himself.

Scatty little dreary emo that he is.

Terez
11-13-2009, 12:22 PM
I liked the Lews Therin real vs. construct discussion between Rand and Min. I got the impression it was put there as a shout-out to all the hardcore fans who have dissected the topic ad nauseum here on other internet forums.

amazinglarry
I have been told (by Dom) that this debate was not really ever much of a debate at other forums, and that the debate itself was associated mostly with Theoryland. However, Wotmania's Etzel (who posted here as Dragon) came here and argued about it vociferously for a while. He was (and probably still is) a real'er.

Davian93
11-13-2009, 12:33 PM
I have been told (by Dom) that this debate was not really ever much of a debate at other forums, and that the debate itself was associated mostly with Theoryland. However, Wotmania's Etzel (who posted here as Dragon) came here and argued about it vociferously for a while. He was (and probably still is) a real'er.

When I brought it up on DM, they had little idea of what I was referring to. The only time it was ever discussed there is when T or I mentioned it.


TL delves much deeper into things than most others.

Ishara
11-13-2009, 02:13 PM
The other two things:

1. Moiraine's letter to Rand

2. Amys recounting the tale of Shaiel.

Also, Perrin and Faile's wedding and their vows, specifically, did make really emotional as well.

AbbeyRoad
11-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Tam referring to Cadsuane to a bully was so powerful not just because he said it, but the way he said. He's hanging in the air by invisible flows of the Power, perfectly calm, and just looks at her and says "I've known men who, when challenged, always turned to their fists for answers." Just awesome.

Davian93
11-13-2009, 03:21 PM
Tam referring to Cadsuane to a bully was so powerful not just because he said it, but the way he said. He's hanging in the air by invisible flows of the Power, perfectly calm, and just looks at her and says "I've known men who, when challenged, always turned to their fists for answers." Just awesome.

That was one of the top 10 scenes in all of the books. Tam is an awesome character who I wish had gotten more screen time.

Kurtz
11-13-2009, 03:23 PM
That was one of the top 10 scenes in all of the books. Tam is an awesome character who I wish had gotten more screen time.

I had him pegged as Moiraine's future lover from book one!

I would be right as well if it weren't for those pesky prophecies.

Marie Curie 7
11-13-2009, 03:43 PM
A couple of the little things that I loved about TGS...

- the image of the to'raken hanging on the White Tower like bats.

- Silviana. (I wish we got to see the scene where she denounced Elaida to the Hall.)

Crispin's Crispian
11-13-2009, 03:53 PM
Agreed. Not that what they had tried to do was wrong (though it probably was), but that nothing they tried to do was going to work. This was something Rand needed to deal with himself.

Scatty little dreary emo that he is.
What I particularly enjoyed about that was how their treatment of Rand is in such counterpoint to how you're supposed to control saidar (guide it, don't force it). And in counterpoint to Egwene's strategy, though Egwene is apparently still thinking of Rand as something to be controlled.

1Powerslave
11-13-2009, 03:59 PM
A lot of great scenes above...

One little thing that I liked was the way Tuon thought of Mat during her meeting with Rand. For instance that Mat would have to see reason, that the Prince of the Ravens must be raised to the High Blood, shave half his head and learn proper seanchan ways. And that that seemed a shame to Tuon, for reasons she couldn't put her finger on. :)

Kurtz
11-13-2009, 04:04 PM
What I particularly enjoyed about that was how their treatment of Rand is in such counterpoint to how you're supposed to control saidar (guide it, don't force it). And in counterpoint to Egwene's strategy, though Egwene is apparently still thinking of Rand as something to be controlled.

In many ways they weren't wrong as Rand was out of control (batshit crazy), and guiding was out of the question as he simply didn't trust anyone.

The 'not killing women' shtick which he employed had been the only thing keeping himself sane for a long time. I had given out about it in the past as it was irrational and rather stupid. I misinterpreted it though, as the logic of it was not the preservation of the delicate female entity, but clinging to some principal that remained from his old life.

The embracing of the True Source was nothing in comparison to Rand losing his last vestige of his old self by killing Semirhage/Elza.

Ozymandias
11-13-2009, 04:16 PM
haha, yeah he's always been my favorite villain, and that quote did rock. But in the same vein...

"You were always so full of thoughts, Elan." — Rand

Best line in the entire series, hands down. My fantasy before RJ passed away was to have him write the story of Elan Morin falling into the Shadow.

Bonzi77
11-13-2009, 04:33 PM
A lot of great scenes above...

One little thing that I liked was the way Tuon thought of Mat during her meeting with Rand. For instance that Mat would have to see reason, that the Prince of the Ravens must be raised to the High Blood, shave half his head and learn proper seanchan ways. And that that seemed a shame to Tuon, for reasons she couldn't put her finger on. :)

Ah, that was a good one.

Yuri33
11-13-2009, 04:43 PM
I've already mentioned Min's comment about trying to push Rand. I got a kick out the following as well:

TGS, In the White Tower:
"I dare the truth, Elaida," Egwene said quietly. "You are a coward and a tyrant. I'd name you Darkfriend as well, but I suspect that the Dark One would perhaps be embarrassed to associate with you."

Which was of course verified by Verin's wonderful little book.

The other part was Verin's explanation of the true motivations of the Brown--to arm others with knowledge so that they may be prepared for whatever the future brings. As a researcher, it's a sentiment after my own heart.

Matoyak
11-13-2009, 05:57 PM
I think that's how all historians think. I was always taught by my history teachers the only reason to learn history is to better deal with the future, and to learn from the mistakes of the past.

AbbeyRoad
11-13-2009, 06:12 PM
And how about Rand's comment to himself, "I am doing it again. I am a monster." I got chills.

And the scene where Semirhage makes Rand strangle Min. Ranks up there with the Shaido literally exploding and Taim's "kneel... or you will be knelt" as one of the most powerful WoT scenes for me.

Icarium
11-13-2009, 07:15 PM
Nynaeve defending Mat when Tuon described him as "scoundrel". Seems like she finally started seeing Mat as a grown up.

Kurtz
11-13-2009, 07:16 PM
Nynaeve defending Mat when Tuon described him as scoundrel. Seems like she finally started seeing Mat as a grown up.

That was nice alright, though thoroughly undeserved.

Lilia
11-13-2009, 09:11 PM
Verin and mat talking...

TGS The Death of Tuon

"You didn't ask where I got this."

"You're Aes Sedai," Mat said shrugging. "I figured you . . . you know, saidared it."

"Saidared it?" she asked flatly.

This absolutely had me rolling on the ground laughing and that almost never happens. I could just imagine the look on Verin's face

Oatman
11-13-2009, 09:39 PM
Mat's whole women are like goats speech. Made me laugh.

FelixPax
11-13-2009, 10:51 PM
A lot of great scenes above...

One little thing that I liked was the way Tuon thought of Mat during her meeting with Rand. For instance that Mat would have to see reason, that the Prince of the Ravens must be raised to the High Blood, shave half his head and learn proper seanchan ways. And that that seemed a shame to Tuon, for reasons she couldn't put her finger on. :)

Agreed, that was a very neat scene. And yet in the back on my head wonder, I about the first question Mat asked of the Aelfinn:

"Should I go home to help my people?” he asked finally.

So who are Mat's "people" really?
The Aelfinn said to go to Rhuidean, but that's the ancient homeland of the Jenn Aiel in the Waste?

Yes, Mat's the General of the Band of Red Hand, the Prince of Ravens thru a poitical marriage with Fortuona/Tuon, a children friend of the Dragon Reborn, and Ta'veren himself.

But is Tuon feeling about Mat's dress/behavior/status et al, and how the Aelfinn answered Mat hinting at something else?

Who exactly are Mat Cauthon's people?

Weird Harold
11-13-2009, 11:48 PM
tSR “Into the Doorway”
"Should I go home to help my people?” he asked finally.

Who exactly are Mat Cauthon's people?

At the time the question was asked, Mat only had ONE cultural group to identify with and one "home" -- Emond's Field in the Two Rivers region of Andor.

jason wolfbrother
11-14-2009, 12:19 AM
I liked Nynaeve's defense of Mat. However, I saw it as more of a "no one picks on my brother but me" defense. :) mainly because I've used it myself ;)

GonzoTheGreat
11-14-2009, 05:53 AM
So who are Mat's "people" really?
The Aelfinn said to go to Rhuidean, but that's the ancient homeland of the Jenn Aiel in the Waste?Actually, I think that in this case, it doesn't really matter who Mat's people are in this sense.
Unless he went to Rhuidean, he couldn't help anyone at all. Only by going there could he fulfill his fate, and thus help the whole world (including, presumably, his people).

Stronginthearm
02-03-2010, 05:44 PM
I liked Failes dispatching of Masema and Rands killing of Graendal, just so simple, they are in the way, no dancing about jsut remove them

Enigma
02-03-2010, 05:59 PM
My personal favourite was Rand/LTT talking to Moridin. It was cool on so many levels. Next was Rand facing Semirhage. Even though he is killing the woman Rand loves and being controled by the one forsaken other forsaken are genuinely frightened of LTT still does not want to use the Dark One's power. That's commitment, no wonder no one managed to turn him to the Shadow during the Aol.

Brita
02-03-2010, 08:11 PM
This whole thread gave me goosebumps- remembering these amazing little gems.

Gareth and Siuan bonding. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Spasmodean
02-03-2010, 08:15 PM
I liked the Verin/Egwene scene. And for comic relief the Verin/Mat scene.

The attack on the Tower was pretty epic as well, I enjoyed Adelorna's PoV.