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Neilbert
11-20-2009, 07:06 PM
Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head, I'm sure there's a bunch I've missed so let's try and figure out what the possibilities are.

Fain & his Fade
Chora Trees
Mat's Hat
Rhudien Stash (currently in Cairhein)
Dead Tinkers "Tell the Dragon Reborn"
Seed Singing

Kurtz
11-20-2009, 07:08 PM
What specifically did you have in mind about Mat's hat?

Terez
11-20-2009, 07:17 PM
It's a good bloody hat.

Neilbert
11-20-2009, 07:20 PM
It's a good bloody hat.

That.

DahLliA
11-20-2009, 08:14 PM
It's a good bloody hat.

wouldn't that be bloody good hat? :p

Trutino
11-20-2009, 08:17 PM
Here is a list of things on the original thread that had been theorized before Terez said we were on the wrong track. I didn't include things like "they spent a lot of time in the Waste in those books" or "it might have something to do with the rescue of Moiraine." Basically, anytime someone listed a bunch of things that happened in 4-6 or listed plotlines that will be addressed in the last two books, I left those out. I only included things that were discussed in some detail. We can always add more or subtract if we need to. I'm also not sure how many posts went up between Terez' source reading the thread and her posting that we were on the wrong track. In other words, take the list with a grain of salt!

Not Moghedian ripping Birgitte out of T'A'R
Not Leilwin
Not Egwene using need in T'A'R, finding Tinker camp
Not Nynaeve and Elayne using need in T'A'R
Not Tinkers
Not Ogiers
Not Farstrider in Graendal's lair
Not Fel's note
Not Fel's belief that Rand couldn't seal the prison
Not Sharan armies
Not the Gholam
Not Birgitte on Moiraine rescue
Not Demandred's "balefire" visit to Dark One
Not the sisters Siuan sent to re-capture Taim
Not the remaining Liandrin-led BA
Not Sahra Covenry
Not Graendal and Ituralde
Not related to multiple ta'veren in *Finn doorways
Not Moiraine making Aelfinn wishes
Not Rand at one with the land
Not Fisher King
Not Joiya's Taim-escape plot
Not Seed Singing's non-channeling
Not "Taim is caught in a mindtrap"
Not Moiraine's Eelfinn questions
Not the ashandarei
Not Taim's relationship with Bashere
Not Avendesora
Nothing about Theodrin being behind bars
Not about 13 Aes Sedai turning anyone

Davian93
11-20-2009, 08:30 PM
At least we're thorough.

Terez
11-20-2009, 08:32 PM
wouldn't that be bloody good hat? :p
No.

TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 28 - Night in Hinderstap

He fell silent. Mat glanced at Thom, who did not respond. Mat could see in those blue eyes of his that he was memorizing the tale. He'd better get it right if he puts me in any ballads, Mat thought, folding his arms. And he'd better include my hat. This is a good bloody hat.

legends be wrought
11-20-2009, 08:48 PM
-Something to do with the seafolk bargain; the seafolk haven't been used enough since book 5/6.

-I dont know if this has been discussed a while ago, but is there any explanation as to why the darkone asked Demandred to be neablis "using balefire quote", then like 1 book later Ishy shows up again as neablis?

Blue Nine
11-20-2009, 10:35 PM
Here is a list of things on the original thread that had been theorized before Terez said we were on the wrong track. I didn't include things like "they spent a lot of time in the Waste in those books" or "it might have something to do with the rescue of Moiraine." Basically, anytime someone listed a bunch of things that happened in 4-6 or listed plotlines that will be addressed in the last two books, I left those out. I only included things that were discussed in some detail. We can always add more or subtract if we need to. I'm also not sure how many posts went up between Terez' source reading the thread and her posting that we were on the wrong track. In other words, take the list with a grain of salt!

Not Moghedian ripping Birgitte out of T'A'R
Not Leilwin
Not Egwene using need in T'A'R, finding Tinker camp
Not Nynaeve and Elayne using need in T'A'R
Not Tinkers
Not Ogiers
Not Farstrider in Graendal's lair
Not Fel's note
Not Fel's belief that Rand couldn't seal the prison
Not Sharan armies
Not the Gholam
Not Birgitte on Moiraine rescue
Not Demandred's "balefire" visit to Dark One
Not the sisters Siuan sent to re-capture Taim
Not the remaining Liandrin-led BA
Not Sahra Covenry
Not Graendal and Ituralde
Not related to multiple ta'veren in *Finn doorways
Not Moiraine making Aelfinn wishes
Not Rand at one with the land
Not Fisher King
Not Joiya's Taim-escape plot
Not Seed Singing's non-channeling
Not "Taim is caught in a mindtrap"
Not Moiraine's Eelfinn questions
Not the ashandarei
Not Taim's relationship with Bashere
Not Avendesora
Nothing about Theodrin being behind bars
Not about 13 Aes Sedai turning anyone


whoa whoa whoa

forgive my youngling ignorance, but, uh... am I reading into this correctly that Terez has some inkling as to what exactly the item is?

Trutino
11-20-2009, 11:26 PM
whoa whoa whoa

forgive my youngling ignorance, but, uh... am I reading into this correctly that Terez has some inkling as to what exactly the item is?

She indicated that a reliable source said that we weren't on the right track. She said she didn't know what the actual thing was. It was way back on the original thread and you would have had to go through a lot of Valan Luca posts to get to it. ;)

reTaardad
11-21-2009, 01:10 AM
-I dont know if this has been discussed a while ago, but is there any explanation as to why the darkone asked Demandred to be neablis "using balefire quote", then like 1 book later Ishy shows up again as neablis?
I think the Dark One was insinuating that he could make Demandred Nea'blis, not specifically saying that he would. I believe the quote was, "Would you be Nae'blis?" Inspiring the troops, maybe? Ishamael has been #1 Forsaken since the beginning, as far as I'm concerned.

Neilbert
11-21-2009, 03:29 AM
TAR in the flesh.

One Armed Gimp
11-21-2009, 06:50 AM
Keep in mind that it has to be something that is repeated in many of the books since 6. Anything that has not been brought up since then is not it.

Mort
11-21-2009, 08:10 AM
Keep in mind that it has to be something that is repeated in many of the books since 6. Anything that has not been brought up since then is not it.

Why is that? I'd figure that why we have totally missed the "minor detail" is because it was mentioned only once or twice in either book 4, 5 or 6 and then never again since then.

Or has BS or any other reliable source said something more since his first statement that would make us think that the minor detail is something commonly mentioned? (Been out of the loop for a few days)

Masuri
11-21-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm not quite sure how it could fit in, but the Manetheren banner has been around since book 4. I was annoyed at Perrin when he gave it to the Seanchan, selling out his people for Faile. I'm sure that we'll see something more about that and I'm sure Rand won't be all that thrilled with what he did. Not quite sure how it could play an important role, but....

Neilbert
11-21-2009, 03:18 PM
Wolfhead banner too. that's been around along with the Manetheren banner and has been in just about every book.

One Armed Gimp
11-21-2009, 04:53 PM
Why is that? I'd figure that why we have totally missed the "minor detail" is because it was mentioned only once or twice in either book 4, 5 or 6 and then never again since then.

Or has BS or any other reliable source said something more since his first statement that would make us think that the minor detail is something commonly mentioned? (Been out of the loop for a few days)

Brandon first stated it was in every book since the first mention and then revised it to be most. I can find the quotes right now, sorry.

DahLliA
11-21-2009, 05:04 PM
No.

was sure it was the other way around. good bloody hat sounds stupid

Terez
11-21-2009, 05:17 PM
was sure it was the other way around. good bloody hat sounds stupid
Why? :confused:

Terez
11-21-2009, 07:30 PM
I posted about the Mat's hat theory on Dragonmount some time in the last several days, and it's already become quite popular over there. I think they've forgotten about me altogether, but several people are arguing for Mat's hat. :D They even mentioned something about Odin having a hat...did Odin have a special hat? I have no idea...

DahLliA
11-21-2009, 08:50 PM
Why? :confused:

because "bloody good" means very good, while "good bloody" means a good <some negative meaning of bloody(seeing as bloody is generally and expletive or curse)>. so basically a good, bad hat.

I posted about the Mat's hat theory on Dragonmount some time in the last several days, and it's already become quite popular over there. I think they've forgotten about me altogether, but several people are arguing for Mat's hat. :D They even mentioned something about Odin having a hat...did Odin have a special hat? I have no idea...

The Bagler sagas, written in the thirteenth century concerning events in the first two decades of the thirteenth century, tells a story of a one-eyed rider with a broad-brimmed hat and a blue coat who asks a smith to shoe his horse. The suspicious smith asks where the stranger stayed during the previous night. The stranger mentions places so distant that the smith does not believe him. The stranger says that he has stayed for a long time in the north and taken part in many battles, but now he is going to Sweden. When the horse is shod, the rider mounts his horse and says "I am Odin" to the stunned smith, and rides away. The next day, the battle of Lena took place. The context of this tale in the saga is that a peace-treaty has been signed in Norway, and Odin, a god of war, no longer has a place there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

only thing I found about odin and a hat

EDIT: should've searched in norwegian instead of english

Odins hatt har fått mange navn, den betegnes som oftest som hatt og noen ganger som hjelm. Hans hatt er himmelvelvingen. Hatten er trukket litt ned over hans ansikt og skjuler at han bare har ett øye, det andre øyet måtte han gi i pant for lenge siden, for å få drikke av Mimes kunnnskapsbrønn.

translation: odin's hat has been given many names, it is most often called a hat, but sometimes as a helmet. his hat is the firmament. the hat is drawn slightly down over his face, hiding the fact that he has only one eye, having given up the other one in exchange for being allowed to drink from mime's well of knowledge.

Terez
11-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Okay, I found this:


HOW ODIN LOST HIS EYE
by: Abbie Farwell Brown (1881-1927)

The following story is reprinted from In the Days of Giants. Abbie Farwell Brown. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1902.

In the beginning of things, before there was any world or sun, moon, and stars, there were the giants; for these were the oldest creatures that ever breathed. They lived in Jotunheim, the land of frost and darkness, and their hearts were evil. Next came the gods, the good Æsir, who made earth and sky and sea, and who dwelt in Asgard, above the heavens. Then were created the queer little dwarfs, who lived underground in the caverns of the mountains, working at their mines of metal and precious stones. Last of all, the gods made men to dwell in Midgard, the good world that we know, between which and the glorious home of the Æsir stretched Bifröst, the bridge of rainbows.


In those days, folk say, there was a mighty ash tree named Yggdrasil, so vast that its branches shaded the whole earth and stretched up into heaven where the Æsir dwelt, while its roots sank far down below the lowest depth. In the branches of the big ash tree lived a queer family of creatures. First, there was a great eagle, who was wiser than any bird that ever lived—except the two ravens, Thought and Memory, who sat upon Father Odin's shoulders and told him the secrets which they learned in their flight over the wide world. Near the great eagle perched a hawk, and four antlered deer browsed among the buds of Yggdrasil. At the foot of the tree coiled a huge serpent, who was always gnawing hungrily at its roots, with a whole colony of little snakes to keep him company—so many that they could never be counted. The eagle at the top of the tree and the serpent at its foot were enemies, always saying hard things of each other. Between the two skipped up and down a little squirrel, a tale bearer and a gossip, who repeated each unkind remark and, like the malicious neighbour that he was, kept their quarrel ever fresh and green.


In one place at the roots of Yggdrasil was a fair fountain called the Urdar-well, where the three Norn maidens, who knew the past, present, and future, dwelt with their pets, the two white swans. This was magic water in the fountain, which the Norns sprinkled every day upon the giant tree to keep it green—water so sacred that everything which entered it became white as the film of an eggshell. Close beside this sacred well the Æsir had their council hall, to which they galloped every morning over the rainbow bridge.
But Father Odin, the king of all the Æsir, knew of another fountain more wonderful still; the two ravens whom he sent forth to bring him news had told him. This also was below the roots of Yggdrasil, in the spot where the sky and ocean met. Here for centuries and centuries the giant Mimer had sat keeping guard over his hidden well, in the bottom of which lay such a treasure of wisdom as was to be found nowhere else in the world. Every morning Mimer dipped his glittering horn Giöll into the fountain and drew out a draught of the wondrous water, which he drank to make him wise. Every day he grew wiser and wiser; and as this had been going on ever since the beginning of things, you can scarcely imagine how wise Mimer was.


Now it did not seem right to Father Odin that a giant should have all this wisdom to himself; for the giants were the enemies of the Æsir, and the wisdom which they had been hoarding for ages before the gods were made was generally used for evil purposes. Moreover, Odin longed and longed to become the wisest being in the world. So he resolved to win a draught from Mimer's well, if in any way that could be done.


One night, when the sun had set behind the mountains of Midgard, Odin put on his broad-brimmed hat and his striped cloak, and taking his famous staff in his hand, trudged down the long bridge to where it ended by Mimer's secret grotto.


"Good-day, Mimer," said Odin, entering; "I have come for a drink from your well."


The giant was sitting with his knees drawn up to his chin, his long white beard falling over his folded arms, and his head nodding; for Mimer was very old, and he often fell asleep while watching over his precious spring. He woke with a frown at Odin's words. "You want a drink from my well, do you?" he growled. "Hey! I let no one drink from my well."


"Nevertheless, you must let me have a draught from your glittering horn," insisted Odin, "and I will pay you for it."


"Oho, you will pay me for it, will you?" echoed Mimer, eyeing his visitor keenly. For now that he was wide awake, his wisdom taught him that this was no ordinary stranger. "What will you pay for a drink from my well, and why do you wish it so much?"


"I can see with my eyes all that goes on in heaven and upon earth," said Odin, "but I cannot see into the depths of ocean. I lack the hidden wisdom of the deep—the wit that lies at the bottom of your fountain. My ravens tell me many secrets; but I would know all. And as for payment, ask what you will, and I will pledge anything in return for the draught of wisdom."


Then Mimer's keen glance grew keener. "You are Odin, of the race of gods," he cried. "We giants are centuries older than you, and our wisdom which we have treasured during these ages, when we were the only creatures in all space, is a precious thing. If I grant you a draught from my well, you will become as one of us, a wise and dangerous enemy. It is a goodly price, Odin, which I shall demand for a boon so great."


Now Odin was growing impatient for the sparkling water. "Ask your price," he frowned. "I have promised that I will pay."


"What say you, then, to leaving one of those far-seeing eyes of yours at the bottom of my well?" asked Mimer, hoping that he would refuse the bargain. "This is the only payment I will take."
Odin hesitated. It was indeed a heavy price, and one that he could ill afford, for he was proud of his noble beauty. But he glanced at the magic fountain bubbling mysteriously in the shadow, and he knew that he must have the draught.


"Give me the glittering horn," he answered. "I pledge you my eye for a draught to the brim."


Very unwillingly Mimer filled the horn from the fountain of wisdom and handed it to Odin. "Drink, then," he said; "drink and grow wise. This hour is the beginning of trouble between your race and mine." And wise Mimer foretold the truth.


Odin thought merely of the wisdom which was to be his. He seized the horn eagerly, and emptied it without delay. From that moment he became wiser than anyone else in the world except Mimer himself.


Now he had the price to pay, which was not so pleasant. When he went away from the grotto, he left at the bottom of the dark pool one of his fiery eyes, which twinkled and winked up through the magic depths like the reflection of a star. This is how Odin lost his eye, and why from that day he was careful to pull his gray hat low over his face when he wanted to pass unnoticed. For by this oddity folk could easily recognise the wise lord of Asgard.
In the bright morning, when the sun rose over the mountains of Midgard, old Mimer drank from his bubbly well a draught of the wise water that flowed over Odin's pledge. Doing so, from his underground grotto he saw all that befell in heaven and on earth. So that he also was wiser by the bargain. Mimer seemed to have secured rather the best of it; for he lost nothing that he could not spare, while Odin lost what no man can well part with—one of the good windows wherethrough his heart looks out upon the world. But there was a sequel to these doings which made the balance swing down in Odin's favour.


Not long after this, the Æsir quarrelled with the Vanir, wild enemies of theirs, and there was a terrible battle. But in the end the two sides made peace; and to prove that they meant never to quarrel again, they exchanged hostages. The Vanir gave to the Æsir old Niörd the rich, the lord of the sea and the ocean wind, with his two children, Frey and Freia. This was indeed a gracious gift; for Freia was the most beautiful maid in the world, and her twin brother was almost as fair. To the Vanir in return Father Odin gave his own brother Hœnir. And with Hœnir he sent Mimer the wise, whom he took from his lonely well.


Now the Vanir made Hœnir their chief, thinking that he must be very wise because he was the brother of great Odin, who had lately become famous for his wisdom. They did not know the secret of Mimer's well, how the hoary old giant was far more wise than anyone who had not quaffed of the magic water. It is true that in the assemblies of the Vanir Hœnir gave excellent counsel. But this was because Mimer whispered in Hœnir's ear all the wisdom that he uttered. Witless Hœnir was quite helpless without his aid, and did not know what to do or say. Whenever Mimer was absent he would look nervous and frightened, and if folk questioned him he always answered:


"Yes, ah yes! Now go and consult someone else."


Of course the Vanir soon grew very angry at such silly answers from their chief, and presently they began to suspect the truth. "Odin has deceived us," they said. "He has sent us his foolish brother with a witch to tell him what to say. Ha! We will show him that we understand the trick." So they cut off poor old Mimer's head and sent it to Odin as a present.


The tales do not say what Odin thought of the gift. Perhaps he was glad that now there was no one in the whole world who could be called so wise as himself. Perhaps he was sorry for the danger into which he had thrust a poor old giant who had never done him any wrong, except to be a giant of the race which the Æsir hated. Perhaps he was a little ashamed of the trick which he had played the Vanir. Odin's new wisdom showed him how to prepare Mimer's head with herbs and charms, so that it stood up by itself quite naturally and seemed not dead. Thenceforth Odin kept it near him, and learned from it many useful secrets which it had not forgotten.
So in the end Odin fared better than the unhappy Mimer, whose worst fault was that he knew more than most folk. That is a dangerous fault, as others have found; though it is not one for which many of us need fear being punished.

Yuri33
11-21-2009, 10:07 PM
Brandon is concerned about the HCFFs digging and digging for the surprise in books 4-6 and ruining it for TOM. Also, he stated he never read anyone discussing it but it is possible someone has. Also, it is some puzzle that should have been looked at when it was first revealed. It's bigger than who killed Asmodean, according to Brandon.

Okay, I'm still in the Mat's hat = big joke faction, but since so many people are running with it...how exactly could Mat's hat be a "puzzle" when it was first revealed? It belonged to Kadere, then Lanfear made him sell it to Mat. It was unlikely Lanfear enchanted the hat while Kadere had it, and it is unlikely she did in the split second she held it while giving it to Mat (both male and female channelers were watching the whole thing, with Rand actually aware of Lanfear).

The hat is nice symbol contributing to Mat = Odin (and we have plenty of other evidence for that), but in an of itself, it's not a "puzzle" or a critical clue.

Mat's hat is not magical, and I'd be happy to start a faction saying so (if I were a faction kind of person).

Charlz Guybon
11-21-2009, 11:16 PM
She indicated that a reliable source said that we weren't on the right track. She said she didn't know what the actual thing was. It was way back on the original thread and you would have had to go through a lot of Valan Luca posts to get to it. ;)

I don't want to be rude, but how do we know how reliable this person is? Terez, or the person she's talking with could be playing with us.

Hell, Sanderson could playing with us to see how big a frenzy he could whip us up into.

Terez
11-21-2009, 11:26 PM
I don't want to be rude, but how do we know how reliable this person is? Terez, or the person she's talking with could be playing with us.
You can judge on your own. But since Tamyrlin has publicly stated the same at Dragonmount...I learned that from Tamyrlin, who had talked to Brandon's assistant Peter. It was Peter who said we weren't on the right track at that point, but it's been indicated that we won't get any other hints from Brandon or Peter, as they seem certain we will figure it out eventually.

I really doubt Brandon is messing with us - it would pretty much cause all the WoT fans to turn on him if he was.

Tree Brother
11-22-2009, 05:40 PM
Hmmm. The horn was used to drink from the water from the fountain. The eye of the world was used to hide the horn. And the horn sounder was granted knowledge (but not directly from the horn). Fun stuff.

Terez
11-22-2009, 05:44 PM
Okay, I'm still in the Mat's hat = big joke faction, but since so many people are running with it...how exactly could Mat's hat be a "puzzle" when it was first revealed?
The Mistborn detail that Brandon used as a comparison wasn't a 'puzzle' when it was introduced either. It was just a minor detail, much like the hat.

Bryan Blaire
11-22-2009, 11:16 PM
Real quick, 'cause I need sleep:

I thought we'd been over all the Odin-Mat parallels, but I don't think we've really touched on the exchange of hostages (though that has kinda happened if you look at the Aesir Sedai/Asha'man bondings) or the loss of the eye for a while. I've been waiting for the eye thing, but something hit me while reading that last bit:

"Leave one of the "far-seeing" eyes at the bottom of the well..."

If Mat really has Farstrider in his group, maybe it isn't one of Mat's eyes he has to lose for knowledge, but the "far-seeing" Farstrider's eye/person in some way?

Terez
11-22-2009, 11:35 PM
I doubt it, considering that 1) RJ's parallels are not usually dependent to that extent, and 2) Egwene's dream of Mat with his hat pulled low over his eyes (like Odin) and blood streaming down his face. However, the 'exchange of hostages' bit also intrigued me (obviously, since I bolded it).

canibus
11-23-2009, 05:52 AM
First idea on this topic, and first post, being reading this series and looked at the theory page for ages.

I think the point that BS was talking about in terms of the story line which we missed is this:

Rand continually going into TAR as a person and not as a dreamer.

It was said to him not to do this, as he would lose himself - as can be seen, with him turning more unemotional.

I also believe that, the propehecies are very wierd indeed - not literal meanings while for some of them. Maybe it was easier for them to be conveyed to the "prophets".

e.g. tuon prophecies from her damane, and more importantly, rand being blind (in fact he was not).

Thus i believe that the exhange of jain farstrider and moraraine (sp) will happen. think about how the foxes and snakes, like to absorb other peoples memories. IT has been alludedd to many times.

Who has the most wide ranging memories of any person on earth - jain farstrider. he wrote book for god sake.

the idea of mat (best character ever) losing his eye - will happen, he will lose it as part of the bargin with the foxes, but a deeper point will be that he will lose it so that the foxes and snakes cant have their strings attached to him.

be gentle in your reposte.

Daekyras
11-23-2009, 11:11 AM
Hey, back to youngling again, ah well.:cool:

Anyway, just a quick question and i hope I'm not going over something that has been mentioned before and has been discussed to death but on re-reading books 4-6 in anticipation of book 12 I was again struck by this:

The weird relationship between Berelain and Rhuarc. I don't ever recall this as being explained. Even Perrins sense of smell can't figure it out. Could this be an important part?

Sorry if this is complete tripe, just getting back into swing of things....

Weird Harold
11-23-2009, 01:33 PM
... with potential for causing a great deal of trouble.

eWOT:characters\m\mil_tesen.html
Mil Tesen
A peddler in Cairhien.

Physical Description
He is grizzled. (LoC,Prologue)

Chronology
Mil tells Gawyn that rumor out of Cairhien has his mother, Morgase, dead at the hand of the Dragon Reborn. Maybe Elayne as well. (LoC,Prologue)


The question has been asked every so often as to why Gawyn accepts the peddler's word as truth, but the general response is "because he's stupid" and the subject is abandoned.

What if Mil Tesen is Padan Fain in disguise or Demandred in disguise and Gawyn is infected with Padan Fain's paranoid evil or under a compulsion to kill Rand?

Yuri33
11-23-2009, 01:48 PM
It's an interesting idea, considering Gawyn still holds to his basic beliefs even after hearing better info from more reliable sources (Egwene, Bryne, etc.).

However, how many times after LoC did we hear of Gawyn? I don't believe he was onscreen after that until TGS, and subsequent references to him can only be found in Egwene's, Elayne's, and Elaida's fleeting thoughts.

Also, Gawyn has been discussed several times on many forums. Mil Tesen hasn't, though.

Marie Curie 7
11-23-2009, 02:03 PM
... with potential for causing a great deal of trouble.

eWOT:characters\m\mil_tesen.html
Mil Tesen
A peddler in Cairhien.

Physical Description
He is grizzled. (LoC,Prologue)

Chronology
Mil tells Gawyn that rumor out of Cairhien has his mother, Morgase, dead at the hand of the Dragon Reborn. Maybe Elayne as well. (LoC,Prologue)


The question has been asked every so often as to why Gawyn accepts the peddler's word as truth, but the general response is "because he's stupid" and the subject is abandoned.

What if Mil Tesen is Padan Fain in disguise or Demandred in disguise and Gawyn is infected with Padan Fain's paranoid evil or under a compulsion to kill Rand?

RJ was asked about this on his blog. He said that Mil Tesen was just a peddler...

RJ's blog 10 December 2005 "THIS AND THAT"

- Mil Tesen was really just a peddler who happened to be in the right place to pass on news of Morgase’s supposed death to Gawyn. Not everyone is somebody other than who they seem, you know.

Weird Harold
11-23-2009, 02:10 PM
It's an interesting idea, considering Gawyn still holds to his basic beliefs even after hearing better info from more reliable sources (Egwene, Bryne, etc.).

However, how many times after LoC did we hear of Gawyn? I don't believe he was onscreen after that until TGS, and subsequent references to him can only be found in Egwene's, Elayne's, and Elaida's fleeting thoughts.

Also, Gawyn has been discussed several times on many forums. Mil Tesen hasn't, though.
According to eWOT, Gawyn is briefly onscreen/POV in Acos and COT He is mentioned in tPOD, WH, and KoD.

Just enough mention to remind us that there is something important to be resolved in his Storyline.

Of course Gawyn's poor judgement before LoC in the Tower Split could be evidence of earlier tampering and Mil was just an innocent rumor monger -- (or as innocent as any rumor-monger ever is. :()

But Gawyn's rabid acceptance of that rumor is never discussed as anything except a "Gawyn's stupid" indicator as far as I recall.

Weird Harold
11-23-2009, 02:14 PM
RJ was asked about this on his blog. He said that Mil Tesen was just a peddler...
That still doesn't rule out "Tampering," it just rules out Mil as the tamperer. :D

GonzoTheGreat
11-23-2009, 02:48 PM
Now that's an interesting villain: Mil the Tamperer!

With Gawyn it seems simple, though: he has to be less sensible than Egwene is, otherwise he would dump her and find himself a nice Maiden or two.

markerikson
11-25-2009, 01:02 AM
How about the weird sigil that has appeared a few times: the fist clutching lightning bolts?

Terez
11-25-2009, 01:26 AM
How about the weird sigil that has appeared a few times: the fist clutching lightning bolts?
That was introduced in book 3:

TITLE - The Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 51 - Bait for the Net

There were few people in the muddy street, as if everyone had decided it was much better to be somewhere else, and those few scurried by on the other side without a glance at the shiny, black-lacquered coach standing behind a team of six matched whites with tall white plumes on their bridles. A coachman dressed like the soldiers, but without armor or sword, sat on the seat, and another opened the door as they appeared from the house. Before he did, Nynaeve saw the sigil painted there. A silver-gauntleted fist clutching jagged lightning bolts.

She supposed it was High Lord Samon's sign – A Darkfriend, he must be, if he deals with the Black Ajah. The Light burn him! – but she was more interested in the man who dropped to his knees in the mud at their appearance. "Burn you, Sandar, why —?" She jumped as something that felt like a stick of wood struck her across the shoulders.

markerikson
11-25-2009, 03:44 AM
How about the weird sigil that has appeared a few times: the fist clutching lightning bolts?

Adding to this, based on a couple of thing's I've read that Sanderson has said recently.

It seems that this sigil is Sammael's sigil (it's on the back of his throne in t'a'r in tFoH), and yet it also appears on the palace in the BT at the end of KoD.

Sanderson has said that the DO would like to bring Sammael back, but can't because he died by mashadar.

Taim was an arrogant bastard in LoC and aCoS, and didn't turn outright evil until somewhere in tPoD, after Sammael died.

The BT now has a very bleak, nasty feel to it, rather like Aridhol, maybe.

I know, a pretty tenuous theory, but isn't this the place for those?

GhenjeiBomber
11-25-2009, 08:43 AM
MOre info on the sigils is to be found at the 13th depository. Their article on this is quite extensive... Be'lal had the same sigil btw...

Long time lurker, first time poster... And proud to be another Dutchy at this forum;)

yks 6nnetu hing
11-25-2009, 10:05 AM
Aram?

One Armed Gimp
11-25-2009, 10:08 AM
Aram?

I think his being dead negates him having a big role in the upcoming books.

Devlin1969
11-25-2009, 10:15 AM
Adding to this, based on a couple of thing's I've read that Sanderson has said recently.

It seems that this sigil is Sammael's sigil (it's on the back of his throne in t'a'r in tFoH), and yet it also appears on the palace in the BT at the end of KoD.

Sanderson has said that the DO would like to bring Sammael back, but can't because he died by mashadar.

Taim was an arrogant bastard in LoC and aCoS, and didn't turn outright evil until somewhere in tPoD, after Sammael died.

The BT now has a very bleak, nasty feel to it, rather like Aridhol, maybe.

I know, a pretty tenuous theory, but isn't this the place for those?


It was also seen on the door of Be'lal carriage in "TDR".

And all three of the times we have seen it, Be'lal, Sammael and Taim, it has been a different color of metal. I believe it was Gold, Silver and Steel.

yks 6nnetu hing
11-25-2009, 10:16 AM
I think his being dead negates him having a big role in the upcoming books.

hey - that hasn't stopped some of the other characters in WoT!

lurk
11-25-2009, 10:28 AM
stealing gonzo's idea from another thread a bit here (sorry mate :) )

Mat's ashandarei is a gift he never asked for from the finns but he still got it. And that is always around

it is a special power wrought blade, the ravens have some meaning, probabaly something with the tower of ravens, tower of ghenjei hey two towers.... aah wild guess

finberg
11-25-2009, 06:15 PM
But if we're following the Vin's earring hint, shouldn't we be looking at something having to do with Rand? I guess Mat's ashandarei is something, but what about Alanna's bond? It's been discussed, but not overly so, and wasn't even mentioned in book 12. I haven't got any other ideas...

Terez
11-25-2009, 06:18 PM
But if we're following the ...hint, shouldn't we be looking at something having to do with Rand?
We are trying to avoid mentioning that hint outright, out of respect for the people who haven't read Mistborn yet (it would spoil a great deal of the series, don't you think?), but as to your question....not necessarily. Also, the bond really isn't comparable as a minor detail, and we've discussed it to death.

Matoyak
11-26-2009, 03:35 AM
(it would spoil a great deal of the series, don't you think?)THIS :mad:
It does, it did, and I still wish I had had a chance to figure it out on my own when I read Mistborn. I am positive I would have figured it out anyways, but since I had been previously spoiled on it before I read that series, I can't claim I figured it out. Really really annoying, that. Off-topic: (Though I did figure out who the "narrator" at the beginning of every chapter was about 1/8th through Hero of Ages ;) [That is, before we had any real knowledge other than his word usage])
The thing about limiting it to Rand is that while he's THE main character, we also have a good 3 or 4 or 5 other main characters that have only fractions less importance (and in many cases are absolutely required for Rand's success). So the detail doesn't necessarily have to rest with the Main main character, IMO...(but Terez already said that...I was just adding fluff to my post so as to avoid having a 100% off-topic post... :rolleyes: )

GonzoTheGreat
11-26-2009, 04:50 AM
I don't think we've ever had a real Faile bathing scene, have we? That could be an important detail no one noticed before.

One Armed Gimp
11-26-2009, 06:10 AM
I don't think we've ever had a real Faile bathing scene, have we? That could be an important detail no one noticed before.

IIRC, I don't think Faile has the right bust for proper WoT bathing scene. I'm sorry, I mean bosom.