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canibus
11-23-2009, 07:03 AM
Remember in the great hunt, rand took the group to flame via the portal stone, and thiings went crazy.

We saw, Rand vision of him dying and not fulfilling his destiny and allowing the dark one to live. Every choice he made it was wrong. I guess this vision thing was somehting similar to the terangeral in rhuidean, where the wise one apprentice go through and moraine also went through.

No remember how mat and perrin reacted.

Perrin was very calm and accepting of his fate. while Mat was scared, cuase he always felt he betrayed Rand.

I believe this links in to the three of them being travern. And why the pattern shapes it self around them, so that they do what they have to do and not what the portal viewings said they could do.

The main question here is that why does Mat act so scared?

I believe his role is not to betray rand, and thus ruining his chances of winning the last battle. Maybe Mat joins the Senchan or he fights against Rand or whatever. But he must have betrayed rand on lots of occassions, and there were lots of times the will happen.

I beleive Mat role will be to turn the senchen to rands cause until the last battle is over.

maybe also he is the luck guy the one who is cruical as to whether rand wins or the dark one does. if he betrays rand then the luck will be lost and he will not win the last battle. So luck will be needed to win. As it seems the DO is winning. Rand neeeds that lucky punch to win.

What do you think?

Spasmodean
11-23-2009, 07:23 AM
We have to remember that at that point Mat was infected with the evil of Aridhol, so any potential future he saw from that point on may have been tainted by the dagger's influence.

Or perhaps not.

We all know that Mat has been the unwilling hero and his almost obsessive aversion to the One Power may have made him avoid his "duties" in The Last Battle causing the DO to win.

We just don't know as it's never been touched on since.

Terez
11-23-2009, 02:47 PM
We also know that the portal stone showed Rand what would happen if he made the wrong choices. It probably did the same thing for Mat.

I'm much more curious about what Verin saw. :D

padfoot89
11-24-2009, 04:37 AM
At that point of time, all three of them were unsure of themselves. Rand believed that he was going to be used as a false dragon. Mat acted as if Rand could go crazy any second. The fact that Rand could channel had to be kept secret. Rand even thought somewhere that Mat might accidentally betray him.

I think that Portal Stones trip served as a sort of eye opener for them.

I wonder if Rand would have seen a life where he actually won if their "trip" was longer. He might have gained some valuable info and at the end probably heard, Curse you Lews Therin, I will win in the next turning...

Ishara
11-24-2009, 02:46 PM
I'm much more curious about what Verin saw. :D

I agree! I mentioned it in another thread, but you certainly infer that she's Black in all of her proposed lives, no?

Belazamon
11-24-2009, 05:00 PM
I agree! I mentioned it in another thread, but you certainly infer that she's Black in all of her proposed lives, no?
How would you figure that? If being sucked into the Black Ajah was her "big mistake," then wouldn't it be just as likely that she'd not make that mistake in a lot of mirror lives?

Weird Harold
11-24-2009, 05:47 PM
How would you figure that? If being sucked into the Black Ajah was her "big mistake," then wouldn't it be just as likely that she'd not make that mistake in a lot of mirror lives?

Careful about that aspect of Verin's storyline in this forum. This whole thread probably should be in the TGS forum.

Yuri33
11-24-2009, 06:12 PM
Ah, reminds me of this little discussion (http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/419/t/Is-The-Wheel-of-Time-a-Game.html?page=1) on assigning meaning to mirror worlds we had a long time ago...

Belazamon
11-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Careful about that aspect of Verin's storyline in this forum. This whole thread probably should be in the TGS forum.
Hm, didn't realize it wasn't. Oops!

Of course, now it appears that it is on the tGS board, which makes my edit useless. :rolleyes:

Terez
11-24-2009, 06:37 PM
Yeah, I figured it was best to ask Tam to move or edit Ishara's and your posts, since Ishara only comes around so often. Predictably, Tam took the easier route.

Ishara
11-25-2009, 09:08 AM
Gosh, I am SO sorry if I spoiled anyone! I totally didn't notice I wasn't posting on the tGS Board...:o

And T - I come by every day! :p I just don't post every day...LOL

Weird Harold
11-25-2009, 10:10 AM
Gosh, I am SO sorry if I spoiled anyone! I totally didn't notice I wasn't posting on the tGS Board...:o

Your mention of Verin and the Black Ajah didn't really rise quite to the level of a spoiler, whichis why I pointed out Belazamon's post as the potential spoiler.

I had been avoiding this thread because it would lead eventually to that particular spoiler.

Remember in the great hunt, rand took the group to flame via the portal stone, and thiings went crazy.

We saw, Rand vision of him dying and not fulfilling his destiny and allowing the dark one to live. Every choice he made it was wrong. I guess this vision thing was somehting similar to the terangeral in rhuidean, where the wise one apprentice go through and moraine also went through....

Almost since the long trip through the portal stones, people have been blaming The PAttern, Ishamael or The DO for tampering with the transfer. The Verin has been BA for 70 years spoiler makes it probable that Verin was the source of the "tampering" since she was the one who chose the symbol to take them to Toman Head and clearly knows more about the Portal Stones than she revealed.

Whatever the source of the "tampering" it is fairly clear that result of the Tampering was to limit the range of possible outcomes was to "The Avoidance of Destiny." All of Rand's lives were representative of the 'Bad Things' that happen when people don't accept their Destiny; I suggest that the same theme played out for everyone else.

Perrin is pretty undemonstrative so it would take a POV for his inner turmoil over his many lives to become visible.

Mat on the other hand has more complicated Destiny with many more opportunities to "betray Rand" by avoiding it, and Mat is more demonstrative about his feelings.

It would be interesting to know what alternative Verin saw resulting from avoiding her Destiny.

Ishara
11-25-2009, 03:30 PM
Hmmm...I'm just basing my impression from Verin's reaction during the transfer, but she was - I think - as surprised and affected by the results as everyone else. I'm not at all sure that she could have caused the trouble actually, given her strength and that required to use the Portal Stones.

My opinion is that she was a Black in every life and was surprised by it upon "landing" in Falme.