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Maze
11-25-2009, 04:28 AM
hmmm... perhaps proper curtsey would be to introduce myself before posting, since this is my first post here...

I'm your everyday board leacher, Maze. I've been following this board for some time now, and thought it might be nice to register myself once and spout some (in)probable insanity myself. I've been a fan of the Wheel of Time for over 8 years now, which is relatively short compared to the average WoT fan.

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So, on with the show... recently in a discussion about the true identity of Meesana (about 100% solved due to eye colour), I noted it was suggested that it could have been Laras, the mistress of kitchens. It might have been an unlikely idea, but it did spark something. If the following has already been discussed, feel free to burn me :D, but has anyone ever wondered where Laras's (true) allegiance lies?

Up to two times she has proven so far, that she is more than just the mistress of kitchens, though I'm not implying that it is very major. I'm talking about the escape of Siuan and Leane after Elaida, when min was helped / made to rescue them together with Laras.

Back then it didn't trigger anything with me, but in TGS, Laras tries to free Egwene from the tower, and seems to be (in detail) prepared and equipped to help her escape. This was, in any case to me, a reference to the kin. Since the founding of the tower, when novices or accepted ran away, some where able to leave the island of Tar'Valon undetected. After which they would wind up with the kin. Now how would these novices / accepted know about the kin? During the stay of Nynaeve and Elayne in Ebou Dar, it was revealed that the existence of the kin, and the AS knowledge about it was an AS secret, surely not shared with novices, accepted or kinswoman. There was no direct way of knowing for those who fled that there was an organisation like the kin, or who to contact after fleeing, unless...

They would need to have an accomplice in the tower, someone who has contact with the novices and accepted, is trusted by the AS and is above suspicion and has the means to get them off the island undetected. In my opinion, Laras fits this description. Supporting factors are the preparation and the excuse Laras supplied that Egwene would have fled the tower if her AS guards found her to be missing from the kitchens.

So my guess is that Laras is in league with or part of the kin, either as a former stilled AS, like mistress Anan or as a supporter of the kin, but not a (stilled) channeller.

Any ideas on the subject?

GonzoTheGreat
11-25-2009, 04:58 AM
A very neat and (as far as I know) novel idea.

I don't think it is correct; from what I remember the Kin monitors the outside of Tar Valon, possibly the outside of the Tower.
I don't think they would risk having someone in the WT itself, considering their views on AS competence. If something like that were suggested to the Kin, they would expect Laras to be caught within a week.
Adeleas blinked, and pulled herself back to the topic. "The Kin help runaways. They always have two or three women in Tar Valon keeping watch. For one thing, they approach almost every woman put out, in a very circumspect way, and for another, they manage to find every runaway, whether novice or Accepted. At least, none has made it off the island without their help since the Trolloc Wars."Does not actually prove that they don't have anyone in the Tower, but it suggests strongly that they don't need to.

In my view, Laras is actually what she seems: someone who does things because of her own (fairly high) morals.

Maze
11-25-2009, 05:13 AM
even if it is not the kin, she does seem to have a knack for setting up escapes from the tower, maybe more along the lines of an accomplice, instead of an actual member of the kin...

as a side note, I don't really have experience looking up exact quotes from the books, but I do have a general idea what was discussed.

Davian93
11-25-2009, 06:19 AM
I like it...I like it a lot.

Welcome to TL.

Terez
11-25-2009, 06:53 AM
Laras=agent of the Kin is a popular theory at one of the other sites (can't remember which), because someone asked Brandon about it at a stormleader dinner, along with asking him if Laras was Mesaana. I still think it's safe to say that Laras was disqualified as a suspect, even though Brandon was misled about what RJ had said about her in public, and therefore confused. He might have been confused, but I think not so confused that he would forget Laras was Mesaana.

Also, welcome to TL. I'm sure the resident Dutchies will be thrilled to have another among their number. We've had a few Dutchie noobs since Sarevok joined, but none that stayed.

Davian93
11-25-2009, 07:29 AM
Laras=agent of the Kin is a popular theory at one of the other sites

Hmmm...I had never heard it before. I still like it.


Another Dutchie?!? We are easily the most popular WoT site in Holland/Netherlands/Charles V wayward provinces/whatever you guys call it...

Maze
11-25-2009, 07:54 AM
wasn't Meesana = the brown sister who brought in the stone masons (Danelle was it? ) during the Elaida coup, solved 100% on the base of deduction by eye color, hints from Alviarin's PoV and known locations after the BA pruge in FelixPax's thread about Meesana?

I never heard of the theory before either, what I wrote here was based on what I remembered from the 2 escape events from the white tower.

on a sidenote; i have never heard of the "Charles V wayward provinces" before ... Charles V. sounds like a criminal to me :D (disclaimer: my sarcasm is not to be mistaken for inability to read Roman numbers).

kcf
11-25-2009, 09:14 AM
I'm the one who asked Brandon about Laras.

Fisrt, she's in NS - just a young kitchen maid at that time. So I think that rules her out as burned out AS. Also the contex of the conversation rules her out as a candidate for Mesaana (though there are many, many other things that do as well).

I like the idea of her as an agent of the Kin, but after the convresation with Brandon, I think it's a bit less likely, but certainly still possible.

It was also very strongly hinted at that if the prequels do get written, we'll be seeing more of Laras. I think it's pretty clear that she's more than just the Mistress of the Kitchens, but probably not something 'official'.

I think it's equally likely that she's involved in Eyes and Ears netowrks as an agent of the Kin. She could even be one Leane's agents.

When Verin met with Egwene, she repeatedly told Egwene to thank Laras for her - a pretty strong hint that Egwene needs to go see Laras. I think it's likely that Verin left something important with Laras. One of the better ideas I've seen on that is that she left the HoV with Laras. Mat needs to get the horn before TG and there are probably some instructions on that in his letter. I don't think the oath rod is the only thing Verin was searching for in the WT basement.


Oh, and I'm (sort of) knew around here to. I'm a long time lurker (generally around the release of new books) and I posted a few time on the old MB. If any of you have frequented places like Wotmania, RAFO.com, Westeros, or the 13th Depository, then you probably recognize me. I've been playing around on these message boards for nearly a decade now.

Maze
11-25-2009, 09:46 AM
hehe welcome to the club kfc, we have cookies :p. this thread was my first post here, also have been a long time lurker.

Thanks for the extra information. About the HoV... although I don't have any actual proof, remember that when the HoV was brought to the tower, when Siuan hid it, she did not trust anyone, save for herself, Moiraine, Verin, Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne. She did not know about Verin being undercover in the BA. And since Verin only joined her "we must find the dragon reborn club" in TGH, i doubt she had Siuans full trust.

So Siuan would not have have treated Laras as 100% not darkfriend. Thats why I believe that she hid the HoV not with a person (Verin), but in a secret location.

Therefore I find it unlikely that Laras is keeping the HoV for Siuan, allthough i like the thought.

One Armed Gimp
11-25-2009, 09:53 AM
In my view, Laras is actually what she seems: someone who does things because of her own (fairly high) morals.
+1

When Verin met with Egwene, she repeatedly told Egwene to thank Laras for her - a pretty strong hint that Egwene needs to go see Laras. I think it's likely that Verin left something important with Laras. One of the better ideas I've seen on that is that she left the HoV with Laras.
Or......Verin could honestly be thankful for such a sweet tea to make the poison go down easily.

GonzoTheGreat
11-25-2009, 09:56 AM
Another Dutchie?!? We are easily the most popular WoT site in Holland/Netherlands/Charles V wayward provinces/whatever you guys call it...NitpicK: Charles V was the one who collected us all into one set, we didn't really start running away again until he was succeeded by his son Philips II.

lurk
11-25-2009, 10:37 AM
we did not run away we just told philip to stay away :D

Davian93
11-25-2009, 10:42 AM
NitpicK: Charles V was the one who collected us all into one set, we didn't really start running away again until he was succeeded by his son Philips II.

That's what I was going for...you belonged to Chuck V but have been wayward ever since he died.

GonzoTheGreat
11-25-2009, 10:53 AM
That's what I was going for...you belonged to Chuck V but have been wayward ever since he died.Nah, not really. We were quite loyal to his son too, until he started saying a dirty word: taxation.

Davian93
11-25-2009, 10:55 AM
Nah, not really. We were quite loyal to his son too, until he started saying a dirty word: taxation.

Don't you hate it when that happens? At least in the U.S. we reacted quite reasonably when that word was brought up. The 2nd time around (every tax levied in the past 233 years), we just kinda bent over and took it.

Sarevok
11-25-2009, 11:24 AM
Yay!!! Another Dutchie. :)

And yeah, I'm with Gonzo on this one: She'd just a really nice person.

When Verin met with Egwene, she repeatedly told Egwene to thank Laras for her - a pretty strong hint that Egwene needs to go see Laras. I think it's likely that Verin left something important with Laras. One of the better ideas I've seen on that is that she left the HoV with Laras.
I like this one. :)

Maze
11-25-2009, 11:59 AM
I like the idea of Laras being important in another way before Tarmon Gaidon, one way or the other.

the theory i posted here seemed most likely to me, with maybe some development towards TG when the kin (possibly) joins the AS in the fight.

Allthough Verin leaving something with Laras would be very possible. I can't clearly recall, but where there any snippits of information given about the hiding of the horn, except Padan Fein's conclusion that it wasnt with the dagger?

I'm thinking along the lines of; was it mentioned wether Siuan, Verin or random AS "x" hid the horn, or a hint to it's location?

The only way there would be a possibility that Laras could have the HoV, would be if Verin was tasked with hiding it. Verin was the only person on the side of the light, who had a possibility to know if someone was a darkriend or BA, allthough no one know at that point in time. Siuan didnt trust anyone save for a few people, and the mistress of kitchens was unlikely to be a DF, but was not above suspicion.

I would imply that if there are no clues about Verin hiding it, it would be unlikely for Siuan to have tasked anyone else with it. In that ocasion, Siuan would have picked a place at hand (near / in Tar'Valon), instead of a person. Remember that she only fully trusted herself and Moiraine, and later on Nynaeve, ELayne and Egwene.

Ishara
11-25-2009, 02:40 PM
I would imply that if there are no clues about Verin hiding it, it would be unlikely for Siuan to have tasked anyone else with it. In that ocasion, Siuan would have picked a place at hand (near / in Tar'Valon), instead of a person. Remember that she only fully trusted herself and Moiraine, and later on Nynaeve, ELayne and Egwene.

I don't know about that. Suian trusted Verin enough to have her help the girls hunt BA. In fact, she clearly states out loud that she must trust Verin.

Also, we've never since had a PoV from Verin (and we've had many) even hinting at the HoV. Don't we think she would have thought about it at least once?

Maze
11-26-2009, 02:54 AM
I wonder about that, since Verin only got part of her trust because she knew about Moiraine's / Siuan's plans, at the start of TGH, and got involved in the plans because of necessity instead of full trust.

And Verin joined the BA hunt (trip to Falme (TGH), not on orders of Siuan, but on her own accord). Afterwards when she brought the HoV to the tower, she was included in the hunt because there where no other full AS Siuan could partially trust. Since she needed someone to pass documents ect. to Egwene and Nynaeve, Siuan picked Verin based on her previous involvement, not on base of her full trust. Like she said, she must trust Verin, because of her involvement but that didn't mean she would trust her enough to give her the HoV as a safe-keep.

Allthough i could be wrong :D

GonzoTheGreat
11-26-2009, 04:47 AM
"Yes, Mother. And the Horn?"
"For the moment," the Amyrlin said finally, "we will find some place to hide this where no one but we two know. I will consider what to do after that."This shows that initially, Verin knew where the Horn was stored. It also suggests that Siuan may have put it somewhere else later. I don't think there's any clue as to whether or not that actually happened, nor to where the Horn is now.

Maze
11-26-2009, 06:11 AM
thanks gonzo, like I noted before, I am doing this from what I can remember, not the exact quotes.

Although the Thread jumped from Laras's allegiance to does Laras have the HoV, to Where is the HoV :p

Belazamon
11-28-2009, 01:37 PM
Although the Thread jumped from Laras's allegiance to does Laras have the HoV, to Where is the HoV :p
Maze, meet the Theoryland Threadjackers.

Threadjackers, Maze.

:D

Maze
12-01-2009, 07:21 AM
hehe, thanks Bela, consider me notified. any emergency number I call when I see a threadjacker? :p

but seriously, I didn't mean to say that I didn't want the thread to change, just thought it was outstanding enough to be noted.

touché ,....

Terez
12-01-2009, 07:22 AM
hehe, thanks Bela, consider me notified. any emergency number I call when I see a threadjacker? :p
Yeah, but you just get an automated system that puts you on hold and plays elevator music indefinitely, occasionally interrupted by reminders that your call is important to us and could you please not hang up.

Spasmodean
12-01-2009, 07:31 AM
Outrigger novel 3:

The Adventures of Laras the Lively girl (Amaretsu Reborn!)

Maze
12-01-2009, 07:37 AM
Outrigger novel 3:

The Adventures of Laras the Lively girl (Amaretsu Reborn!)

its got my vote :p

GonzoTheGreat
12-01-2009, 07:40 AM
Outrigger novel 3:

The Adventures of Laras the Lively girl (Amaretsu Reborn!)Perhaps it would explain all those inn names that appear so baffling, like The Nine Horse Hitch. If Laras is really responsible for all of those, would that mean that she'd been ta'veren?

Maze
12-03-2009, 07:05 AM
Perhaps it would explain all those inn names that appear so baffling, like The Nine Horse Hitch. If Laras is really responsible for all of those, would that mean that she'd been ta'veren?

or a very busy exploitant? dominating the tavern market in such an "outstanding" way that inns are named after her own... ahem... discoveries / experiences? :p

wolframbohr2
12-03-2009, 04:15 PM
If she is ta'veren, then I would love to see her riding Bela to the Last Battle wacking things on top the head with he wooden spoon.

Or maybe she is the 3 to be 1. Several times it is mentioned that he dresses are big enough to make 3 novice dresses.

Weird Harold
12-04-2009, 12:08 AM
If she is ta'veren, then I would love to see her riding Bela to the Last Battle wacking things on top the head with he wooden spoon.

Or maybe she is the 3 to be 1. Several times it is mentioned that he dresses are big enough to make 3 novice dresses.
I think it would almost be a better fit for Bela to ride Laras to the last battle. :D

GonzoTheGreat
12-04-2009, 03:42 AM
Perhaps she is Vanin's twin sister?
That'd be quite a revelation, and yet very logical too.

Yuri33
12-04-2009, 04:49 AM
Luca...Laras...

I smell a connection!

Uma...Oprah...

Maze
12-04-2009, 06:43 AM
why stop there? Larandred would certainly have enough time to slip all the baffling inn namesor the ability to use his / her proxies to take over the inn business? :p