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Spasmodean
11-26-2009, 07:36 AM
So Callandor eh?

I'm irked.

The passage irked me.

3 must be as one. So Rand has to find 2 faceless female channelers to help him. That's what the prophecy means.

Nothing to do with our 2 other Ta'veren wandering the world and doing the Light's work.

Still irked.

Anyone else irked?

Ger
11-26-2009, 07:38 AM
well, it could be that rand, ltt and moridin should be one aswell

GonzoTheGreat
11-26-2009, 08:10 AM
Maybe it refers to Perrin, Faile and Berelain, and Callandor is merely an aid to their prophecied lovemaking.

Anaiya Sedai
11-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Maybe it refers to Perrin, Faile and Berelain, and Callandor is merely an aid to their prophecied lovemaking.

eww. that just made me firmly put my knees together.
I always thought it was about the three boys, although, when Min read the passage, I had the feeling that she was going to start spouting something about Rand and his three future wives...

One Armed Gimp
11-26-2009, 08:51 AM
well, it could be that rand, ltt and moridin should be one aswell

-1

I really hate that idea, always have. Besides I think its kind of negated with the ending of tGS, but thats just my take.

I still lean toward the ta'veren solution to it all.

Ishara
11-26-2009, 12:47 PM
So Callandor eh?

I'm irked.

The passage irked me.

This amused me. Rep for you.

Toss the dice
11-27-2009, 12:38 AM
In my opinion, it almost has to refer to the 3 ta'veren. Any other way of fulfilling that prophecy seems like a remote possibility at best.

Might as well add my own lovemaking scene to the table, as it is also a remote possibility. Rand, Callandor, and Rand's stump.

Davian93
11-27-2009, 11:56 AM
In my opinion, it almost has to refer to the 3 ta'veren. Any other way of fulfilling that prophecy seems like a remote possibility at best.

Might as well add my own lovemaking scene to the table, as it is also a remote possibility. Rand, Callandor, and Rand's stump.


Why does anyone assume that Cadsuane is all-knowing. She's been proven wrong before. I think she and Min are both wrong...its the 3 ta'veren that are important, not a circle with Callandor.


Callandor is likely important due to its lack of a buffer and the ability to OD using it. How Rand uses that should be interesting.

Kalli
11-27-2009, 12:08 PM
Why does anyone assume that Cadsuane is all-knowing. She's been proven wrong before. I think she and Min are both wrong...its the 3 ta'veren that are important, not a circle with Callandor.

Seems to make the most sense because Min and Cadsuane don't know about the link between the three and Nyn is just finding out a bit about it.

Davian93
11-27-2009, 12:14 PM
Seems to make the most sense because Min and Cadsuane don't know about the link between the three and Nyn is just finding out a bit about it.

Moiraine understood it...maybe when she comes back she'll explain it to the others.

Ishara
11-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Moiraine certainly suspected it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that she understood it.

But yes, if simply to spite Cadsuane, I think it has to do with the three boys, and not Callandor at all.

Davian93
11-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Moiraine certainly suspected it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that she understood it.

But yes, if simply to spite Cadsuane, I think it has to do with the three boys, and not Callandor at all.

That's rep worthy...ashame you have it disabled...

One Armed Gimp
11-27-2009, 01:21 PM
Given her viewings of the the lights when the three are together, you would think Min would be able to figure this out. Then again, maybe I am giving her to much credit. Of course if Caddy and Co. have really grilled her about those viewings, they would have realized that Mat and Perrin are more significant than most people give them credit for, out side of the Chosen of course.

Davian93
11-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Given her viewings of the the lights when the three are together, you would think Min would be able to figure this out. Then again, maybe I am giving her to much credit. Of course if Caddy and Co. have really grilled her about those viewings, they would have realized that Mat and Perrin are more significant than most people give them credit for, out side of the Chosen of course.

The lights swirling in darkness was a viewing that was around all of the original group (Nynaeve, Egwene, Rand, Mat, Perrin, Thom, Lan, and Moiraine)

Its a good shot they are all together at the Last Battle.

TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 15 - Strangers and Friends
Rand shivered. "And what did you see?" "When you're all in a group? Sparks swirling around you, thousands of them, and a big shadow, darker than midnight. It's so strong, I almost wonder why everybody can't see it. The sparks are trying to fill the shadow, and the shadow is trying to swallow the sparks." She shrugged. "You are all tied together in something dangerous, but I can't make any more of it."

One Armed Gimp
11-27-2009, 02:20 PM
Good call, I'd forgotten about that.

Daemon X
11-27-2009, 05:07 PM
Personally, I've always thought it'd be hilarious if Rand linked with Elayne and Aviendha, with Aviendha holding the sword-like Callandor.

isamu237
11-27-2009, 06:41 PM
And why not?
A major factor in Rand's storyline in TGS is his attempt to figure out how to repair the Bore; Rand's ongoing argument with LTT for information and clarification. Rand wants to seal the Bore better than the patch that was done at the end of the AoL. LTT intimates that his own attempt was fundamentally flawed because it used only males, only saidin. He also suggests, as does the BWB, there was an original plan utilizing both male and female channelers.
With both known access keys to the Choeden Kal destroyed, Callandor is the next most powerful Sa'angreal; and it requires a mixed circle to use safely.
The last scene makes me think Rand will begin to deduce all this.

Davian93
11-27-2009, 09:49 PM
Of course, RJ stated that if LTT had had female AS at the Sealing then saidar would have ended up tainted as well.

ckparrothead
11-27-2009, 11:20 PM
It seemed to me that BS was setting up a choice at the end of TGS. The Choedan Kal became a symbol of unilateral, unbridled power...and the inevitable corruption that comes with it. Callandor, which is inherently "flawed" to where it must be used cooperatively, is the weaker weapon...supposedly. It channels less of the One Power and has a restriction on how it must be used. But it's "weakness" being cooperation and submission, gives it strength that the Choeden Kal didn't have. Hence he smashed up the Choeden Kal...making Callandor his symbolic weapon.

I think the way that TGS ended, it really brooks no more discussion, Callandor will be the weapon of choice and the three coming together as one in all likelihood refers to exactly what Min and Cadsuanne deduced it meant.

Yuri33
11-28-2009, 04:05 AM
It's funny how a weapon believed to play a significant role in the remaining part of the story is now at some "undisclosed location" being poked and prodded by a bunch of no-name retired sisters.

No doubt Rand and Cads will make up. Inevitably, Rand will ask for/demand Callandor, and Cads will of course hold it hostage until she squeezes everything she can out of Rand.

GonzoTheGreat
11-28-2009, 06:05 AM
Alternatively, Rand will simply say "sod it, I'll try it unaided and if I fail, you can try to slap Shai'tan when he is free". Wonder what Cadsuane would answer to that.

Come to think of it: Ishamael could apparently say "Shai'tan" safely. Can Rand now do the same?

Belazamon
11-28-2009, 02:45 PM
In my opinion, it almost has to refer to the 3 ta'veren. Any other way of fulfilling that prophecy seems like a remote possibility at best.
Nah, can't be. For they were not three men, and never had been.

Davian93
11-28-2009, 05:41 PM
To go on a tangent: Who the heck are those "retired AS" that Caddy gave Callandor to? How many of the "unaligned" AS are actually in Caddy's party? These ones came out of left field in tGS.

Trutino
11-28-2009, 06:10 PM
To go on a tangent: Who the heck are those "retired AS" that Caddy gave Callandor to? How many of the "unaligned" AS are actually in Caddy's party? These ones came out of left field in tGS.

I totally noticed that too. I wonder how safe the location they are is. Maybe these women will somehow later tie into Egwene's expanded White Tower scheme.

Of course, it could totally backfire and we'll have to go on a Callandor hunt at some point in the next two books. (Judging by Caddy's previous success with keeping items safe.)

Marie Curie 7
11-28-2009, 07:13 PM
To go on a tangent: Who the heck are those "retired AS" that Caddy gave Callandor to? How many of the "unaligned" AS are actually in Caddy's party? These ones came out of left field in tGS.

Actually, we have Cadsuane's own thoughts about gathering sisters that she trusted around the time of the events at the Eye. And not only the ones that she has with her now - she referred to others in addition to those:

TITLE: Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 13 - Wonderful News

"Of course, Corele." It seemed some of Damer's insistence was rubbing off on her. Cadsuane was willing to let that go, so long as it did not go too far. She had begun gathering sisters she trusted, those here with her and others, the day she first heard of strange events in Shienar - eyes and ears had kept watch on Siuan Sanche and Moiraine Damodred for years without learning anything useful until then - yet just because she trusted them did not mean she intended to let them start going their own way. Too much lay at stake. But in any case, she could not leave a sister like that, either.

The other evidence that Cadsuane has other sisters affiliated with her, though in this case circumstantial, is her name heard and hushed up at The Silver Swan:

TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight
CHAPTER: 12 - A Bargain

Recently one of her watchers at the Swan had overheard a disturbing name, murmured and quickly shushed, as if in fear of eavesdroppers. Cadsuane. Not a common name, that. And Cadsuane Melaidhrin had meshed herself closely with Rand while he was in Cairhien. Vandene did not think much of the woman, calling her opinionated and muleheaded, but Careane had almost fainted in awe at hearing her name. It seemed the stories surrounding Cadsuane amounted to legends. Trying to deal with the Dragon Reborn single-handed was just the sort of thing Cadsuane Melaidhrin might do. Not that Elayne had concerns about Rand and any Aes Sedai, except that he might outrage her beyond her control - the man was too pigheaded himself sometimes to see where his own good lay! - but why would a sister in Caemlyn mention her name? And why had another hushed her?

ckparrothead
11-30-2009, 01:50 PM
Hadn't it been expounded upon somewhere that the tower really almost split into three parts? There was Elaida's faction in the tower, there were the Salidar sisters, but also a full third of Aes Sedai were not in either camp, but rather out abroad and sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who comes up the winner.

It would make sense if basically you had three Amyrlins in full operation, though only two of them took the name. Cadsuanne's reputation and strength in the power generally provided enough prowess to rein in the Aes Sedai that were sitting on the sidelines. She probably picked them off one-by-one, convincing them all that there were more important things to be doing during times such as this than squabbling over who controls the Tower.

I know as things stand, there's going to be definite competition and tension between Cadsuanne and Egwene should the two ever meet. BS himself has said he would really like to write about the two meeting.

He also is very much itching to write about some extraordinarily humbling experience for Cadsuanne because I guess he can't stand how much of a bully she is.

Anyway I think that even with the Tower whole again under a strong Amyrlin you've probably still got a bunch of stray Aes Sedai sitting on the sidelines outside the Tower's direct control, and Cadsuanne probably has strings attached to the bulk of them.

Crispin's Crispian
11-30-2009, 07:20 PM
It seemed to me that BS was setting up a choice at the end of TGS. The Choedan Kal became a symbol of unilateral, unbridled power...and the inevitable corruption that comes with it. Callandor, which is inherently "flawed" to where it must be used cooperatively, is the weaker weapon...supposedly. It channels less of the One Power and has a restriction on how it must be used. But it's "weakness" being cooperation and submission, gives it strength that the Choeden Kal didn't have. Hence he smashed up the Choeden Kal...making Callandor his symbolic weapon.

I think the way that TGS ended, it really brooks no more discussion, Callandor will be the weapon of choice and the three coming together as one in all likelihood refers to exactly what Min and Cadsuanne deduced it meant.

I really think this nails it. I see no reason for "the three" to be anything other than Rand and two women using the sword of light. Most probably these will be the two women to whom he is bonded, but I suppose they don't have to be.

I'm not sure why so many people think it has to be the three ta'veren. How exactly would they "become one"?

In any case, it's not implausible that it refers to both. Prophecy doesn't sound as good when it says things like, "both sets of three will be come two sets of one."

Davian93
11-30-2009, 07:27 PM
I'm not sure why so many people think it has to be the three ta'veren. How exactly would they "become one"?

The same way when Mat showed Rand his "ruby tipped dagger" back in tEotW.



Seriously though, its a metaphor. It could mean "act as one" with their ta'veren effect. It could have something to do with the visions they are all having that connect them as One.

Crispin's Crispian
11-30-2009, 07:30 PM
The same way when Mat showed Rand his "ruby tipped dagger" back in tEotW.

I'm sure there's a name for that kind of three-way, but we probably shouldn't debate it on this board.

Seriously though, its a metaphor. It could mean "act as one" with their ta'veren effect. It could have something to do with the visions they are all having that connect them as One.
It's a metaphor? Really? ;)

Those explanations seem pretty vague. And "act as one" seems particularly...lame. (sorry Dav)

Davian93
11-30-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm just saying that there could be another explanation and the connection between the 3 seems to hint that its more than just a "hey where is that guy" type of thing. Notice that the ta'veren also always learning how to consciously use their ta'veren effect to their benefit. I think it points to the way to win the Last Battle by combining that effect.

Marie Curie 7
11-30-2009, 08:28 PM
Hadn't it been expounded upon somewhere that the tower really almost split into three parts? There was Elaida's faction in the tower, there were the Salidar sisters, but also a full third of Aes Sedai were not in either camp, but rather out abroad and sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who comes up the winner.

Yes, we know that the Aes Sedai split into thirds:

TITLE: Lord of Chaos
CHAPTER: 7 - A Matter of Thought

A sliver of cold slid down Elayne's backbone, and nothing to do with whether Elaida was fearful or engaged. Two hundred ninety four Aes Sedai in the Tower, supporting Elaida. Nearly one-third of all Aes Sedai, almost as many as had gathered in Salidar. It might be that the best that could be expected was for the rest to split down the middle as well. After a great rush in the beginning, the numbers coming into Salidar had slowed to a trickle. Perhaps the flow to the Tower had dwindled as well. It could be hoped.

So, 1/3 in the Tower, 1/3 with the rebels, and 1/3 unaligned or unaccounted for. The "unaligned" moniker is a bit misleading, though. It includes not only those truly standing aside, but others sent out before the split and those who are generally out in the world. Some counted among the "unaligned" are Aes Sedai advisors, the 13 with the Borderlanders, Liandrin's 13, those sisters seen in and around Caemlyn, and sisters captured by the Seanchan.

It would make sense if basically you had three Amyrlins in full operation, though only two of them took the name. Cadsuanne's reputation and strength in the power generally provided enough prowess to rein in the Aes Sedai that were sitting on the sidelines. She probably picked them off one-by-one, convincing them all that there were more important things to be doing during times such as this than squabbling over who controls the Tower.

Some of the sisters that are counted among the unaligned are most definitely Cadsuane and the ones she has gathered - see this post (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78493#poststop) (#25 in this thread) for quotes.

Anyway I think that even with the Tower whole again under a strong Amyrlin you've probably still got a bunch of stray Aes Sedai sitting on the sidelines outside the Tower's direct control, and Cadsuanne probably has strings attached to the bulk of them.

While I'm sure that Cadsuane has gathered a significant number of sisters, I seriously doubt that she's gathered 1/3 of all Aes Sedai (i.e., around 300 sisters). I would say that it's possible that she's got a couple dozen sisters that she trusts, but in my opinion, I would find it hard to imagine that anything close to the approximately 300 "unaligned" are hers.

4Alethinos
11-30-2009, 09:18 PM
It is quite likely that Callandor and the necessity of a link being formed with two women and the user, Rand, is vital. However, Callandor cannot be used in and of itself to heal the bore, IMO.

Healing the Bore will require the presence of Mat and Perrin, as well. Having the three most powerful Ta'Veren present to shape the Pattern is vital to the Bore's being healed.

I do not accept, at this time, the idea that Callandor can heal the Bore being used by two AS. I hold that one will be Moiraine.

ckparrothead
11-30-2009, 09:21 PM
The same way when Mat showed Rand his "ruby tipped dagger" back in tEotW.



Seriously though, its a metaphor. It could mean "act as one" with their ta'veren effect. It could have something to do with the visions they are all having that connect them as One.

If there's something that RJ has done with the prophecies pretty deliberately, it has been to avoid vague metaphorical fulfillment. It might have happened a few times but most of the prophecies have been fulfilled in some literal way although maybe not necessarily in the way that those that read the prophecy originally thought.

Belazamon
11-30-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm sure there's a name for that kind of three-way, but we probably shouldn't debate it on this board.
I'd assume you'd call it the Dark One's Threesome.

rhodric
12-01-2009, 12:37 AM
the three must be as one... has already been fulfilled

i need the exact quote, don't have tGS on me...

there are 3 persons within our protagonist - Rand al'Thor, LTT, & the Dragon Reborn. For the later books, we have seen the Dragon, a persona Rand adopted to help control nobles & such, but which ended up controlling him

then at the end of the book, he holds a beacon of light (LTT burn-out levels of power via the CK), and then these three aspects of himself finally merge... and then the sky starts to heal...

i thought it relevant that they introduced that piece of prophecy just prior to rand runnin off to dragonmount. so yarglebleah cadsuane be damned and min too, those overrated AS witches that they are.


~~~~
Rhodric, Aiel anarchist

great minds think differently

Terez
12-01-2009, 03:05 AM
1. RJ said he had two personalities, not three.

2. It's 'blade of light', not 'beacon of light'.

rhodric
12-01-2009, 05:14 AM
1. RJ said he had two personalities, not three.

2. It's 'blade of light', not 'beacon of light'.
wagga wagga wagg thanks!
as i said, i didn't have the book on me
i stand corrected :)

Terez
12-01-2009, 07:56 AM
wagga wagga wagg
Is that some kind of thing they say down in the Land o' Madmen or summat?

Maze
12-01-2009, 08:35 AM
the three must be as one, could possibly refer to a location, same as Rands finn prophecy of:

north and east must be as one, south and west must be one, the two must be as one.

it seems to me that the exact grammar build of foretellings is similar. wouldnt it be possible to refer to one channeler from the Saenchan lands (alivia?), one channeler for the Egwene camp (or Rands if he doesnt count for his own camp) and Rand himself?

I mean, wouldn't it be a possible solution as in how Aliava fits into Rands dying at Tarmon Gaidon?

Spasmodean
12-01-2009, 09:03 AM
Is that some kind of thing they say down in the Land o' Madmen or summat?

Australia?

Maze
12-01-2009, 09:20 AM
Australia?

so you're implying that RJ based the name / concept of the Land 'o Madman on Australia? :p

Spasmodean
12-01-2009, 09:24 AM
so you're implying that RJ based the name / concept of the Land 'o Madman on Australia? :p

In the words of many people in tGS:

Well, yes.

Maze
12-01-2009, 09:33 AM
In the words of many people in tGS:

Well, yes.

does that mean, that (in the words of "many people in TGS") you are implying that just like RJ noted that australia plays no big part in the world, same like the Land 'o Madman does in Randland?:p

Bonzi77
12-01-2009, 10:34 AM
What if the "3" are the Saidar, Saidin and the True Power? If the blade of light is Callandor, we already know Saidar and Saidin are involved, and given Rand's newfound access to the True Power, it's not a stretch to include all three.

Spasmodean
12-01-2009, 11:51 AM
What if the "3" are the Saidar, Saidin and the True Power? If the blade of light is Callandor, we already know Saidar and Saidin are involved, and given Rand's newfound access to the True Power, it's not a stretch to include all three.

Sounds like a good way to have both sides of the power tainted by the Dark One.

ckparrothead
12-01-2009, 11:54 AM
What if the "3" are the Saidar, Saidin and the True Power? If the blade of light is Callandor, we already know Saidar and Saidin are involved, and given Rand's newfound access to the True Power, it's not a stretch to include all three.

Very interesting idea.

There are some problems, of course. For instance we've had no indication that the True Power can be channeled at the same time as the One Power. Also, I believe there's a quote somewhere saying that the Dark One has to give permission to channel the True Power every single time...and so it would seem unlikely for him to give permission to someone that will turn around and use it to destroy or imprison him.

Still, it's interesting. It's been noted that the Dark One's prison is sort of a void outside the pattern. The True Power has been noted as being not only the essence of the Dark One, but that it's nature is destruction (hence it can destroy cuendillar). It's nature is to destroy the pattern.

Maybe the key to imprisoning the Dark One is using the True Power to completely destroy the pattern around the Dark One, recreating a void through which he can't reach out, and have the void encased in something constructed of the One Power? Or maybe it wouldn't need to be encased by the one power but rather just using the One Power to protect the rest of the pattern from also becoming a void, or from being woven to fill the void, something like that.

Raen Mhaal
12-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Another idea that nobody has brought up yet is the male a'dam. 2 women, controlling one man who is wielding callandor?

Crispin's Crispian
12-01-2009, 05:55 PM
Another idea that nobody has brought up yet is the male a'dam. 2 women, controlling one man who is wielding callandor?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


What the hell? Where have you been hiding?!


Ahem...so, regarding your idea. Why would that be necessary, unless Rand goes crazy or something? ;)

Raen Mhaal
12-01-2009, 06:11 PM
lol, i've been around, 'lurking' and reading, just not posting. Just finished TGS yesterday and it's prompted me back into posting again. I just wish I could find the avatar I used on the old boards now :(

As to why it would be necessary - no clue, lol. But, '3 being as 1' could fit as the description of a man held by an a'dam, controlled by 2 women. Wielding Callandor in that state could fulfil the prophecy. And I don't think we've seen the last of that a'dam.

Just a thought, but I don't think I'd want to champion that cause. The next question, as you pointed out, is 'why would there be a need for this', followed by 'which women would control the link'. Light send Cadsuane ISN'T one of them! Moiraine and Avhiendha would be good - one Aes Sedai and one Wise One. I like the symmetry of that.

Of course, it could still be just Rand, linked with 2 women, creating one link, as Cadsuane described.

RadinReborn
12-01-2009, 06:13 PM
Since we are throwing ideas out there it could refer to a more political meaning.

It could be that Rand links up with Egwene and Tuon to safely use Callandor, thus uniting the three main factions.

That might even give some meaning to the whole "kneeling to the crystal throne"-thing too.

rhodric
12-02-2009, 12:50 AM
Is that some kind of thing they say down in the Land o' Madmen or summat?
think fozzie bear & bad ol' timey comedians
wagga wagga wagga!

Blue Bob
12-02-2009, 01:19 AM
I believe we are overthinking this a bit. 3 must be as one. My take is that the 3 do not need to be as one simultaneously. We have seen the intergration of Rand and LTT at the end of TGS, yes? So assume Rand is now 2 as 1.

There is still Min's viewing of in ACoS
[Chpt 33, A Bath, page 526]

"I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't."

You could read 'dies' as intergrated, in reference to LTT, but I don't think so.

I believe due to the link forged in Shadar Logoth "You touched" Rand and Moridin will merge - as evidenced in their deepening connection in TGS - and Rand will use this somehow to escape his appointment with death.

Maze
12-02-2009, 08:10 AM
Since we are throwing ideas out there it could refer to a more political meaning.

It could be that Rand links up with Egwene and Tuon to safely use Callandor, thus uniting the three main factions.

That might even give some meaning to the whole "kneeling to the crystal throne"-thing too.

I noted the sides idea as well (read up), but I doubt Tuon herself will be linking up with Rand and Egwene, since her aversion to channelling isn't passed that easely, but i think Aliava is the one from the Saenchan camp. as for the AS camp, that channeller is a wild-card...

sill I think its more possible to refer to origins of the channellers, since the tree major factions (Saenchan, Aes Sedai and Rand's forces) will have the work together at Tarmon gaidon ... note Rands finn prophecy ... about the East and the North being one, South and West being one and the two be one.

Murphy
12-02-2009, 06:08 PM
I don't like the idea of "The Three Must Be as One" referring to Rand joining a circle and having Egwene or whoever directing the flows. It kind of depletes the point of The Dragon in my opinion. Rand has done all this work for Miss Mary Sue to come along and steal all the glory? No chance.

I think Rand will use Callandor for better or worse on his own, unaided, and the three who must be as one refers to Rand, Mat and Perrin.

You know, I'll be happy no matter how this series ends as long as people remember Rand and what The Dragon done for the world and don't just shove him aside and throw all the praise at the feet of those children playing at Aes Sedai in the White Tower.

Terez
12-02-2009, 06:11 PM
I find myself wishing, not for the first time, that we had neg rep.

Mat is Better
12-03-2009, 01:54 AM
You know, I'll be happy no matter how this series ends as long as people remember Rand and what The Dragon done for the world and don't just shove him aside and throw all the praise at the feet of those children playing at Aes Sedai in the White Tower.

I've had a toy theory ever since Logain was introduced that he would take the glory for winning the Last Battle and Rand would fade away into obscurity. I don't really believe it'll happen that way, but I threw it out there just because it was in direct opposition to what you said :D

lady itchy woo
12-03-2009, 03:33 AM
the second line refers to the three girls of rand. they all have to be together. that's what saved him when he was going nuts on the mountain... ilenya. and the three are ilenya.

they are they key to keeping him sane enough to do anything. and they have to be together with him.

that's my take, anyway.

Neilbert
12-03-2009, 11:26 PM
I really think this nails it. I see no reason for "the three" to be anything other than Rand and two women using the sword of light. Most probably these will be the two women to whom he is bonded, but I suppose they don't have to be.

I'm not sure why so many people think it has to be the three ta'veren. How exactly would they "become one"?

Well, the three ta'veren have been "the three" since the series began. As to how they would become one, they would act as one, because they are aware of each others actions. They close their eyes and see each other, if that doesn't qualify as becoming one then linking wouldn't either.

FelixPax
12-04-2009, 01:16 AM
Maybe it refers to Perrin, Faile and Berelain, and Callandor is merely an aid to their prophecied lovemaking.

:eek::eek:

So how would the Callandor end up in the hands of non-channeling folks again? ;)
Wouldn't Merise, Jahar want to join in the action, Gonzo? :p

GonzoTheGreat
12-04-2009, 04:40 AM
At the moment, Callandor is in the hands of a couple of very old AS. I'm sure that when the right ta'veren passes by, they'll conveniently drop dead of old age, right after telling him where to find the goodies.

Yuri33
12-04-2009, 05:48 AM
Very old AS have needs as well...

wolframbohr2
12-04-2009, 09:23 PM
I have been giving this some thought and came up with something that I have not seen posted before. (sorry I don’t have my books, but tGS with me to look up exact quotes)

The Karaethon Cycle was foretold in the Old Tongue. What if the translation Min is reading was not translated properly? Certain assumptions may have been made as they translated that would impact what we understand it to be.

For example, iir Moraine, in TGH, has a discussion with 2 retired, AS about “Above the Watchers Over the Waves shall he proclaim himself”. One said “Watchers” should be lower case, one said upper case, and the differences it made. From what we read in that sceen and from happened later on we know that it indeed should be capitalized and what it actually means.

Now, for “He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one.” How could this have been translated incorrectly? For one, Rand only has one hand. The line says “hands”. This gave me pause and why I started thinking about this. What if the “holding and hands” was implied based on the OT words used. More on this after I get to the next part.

“And the three shall be one”. What if the three are the Dragon, the Car’a’carn, and the Coramoor. Yes, they are the same person, but Rand has them compartmentalized. He is one of them depending on what he is doing. The people who follow these prophesies view him as just one of them, depending on who they are. Rand needs to combine them and make them one, he needs to transend the Prophesises. He needs to become all of them and have everyone on the Light see him as such. During the Last Battle Rand will be fighting for the Light. He will be fighitng for all of these people. The forces of the light need to be united, not segmented. They need to follow not just Rand, but who Rand is, the combined Rand, not the one that means differnet things to differnet people.

This brings us back to the beging again. What does Siswai’aman mean? Literaly, Spears of the Dragon. But that is not what it is. It is an unacknowledged name given to the many male Aiel, even Gai’shain, who have taken to wearing a red headband with the old AS symble. What if “blade of light” should be “Blade of Light”? What if it has the same type of meaning as Siswai’aman? What if Rand is the Blade of Light? He is the champion for the Light at the Last Battle. Blade, well he wears and uses a sword. Light well he is on the side of the Light.

What if the line should be translated as “ He becomes (not holds) the Blade of Light (no hands this part assumed on OT translations), the three (prophised types) become one."

This all hinges on what the OT line is for this translation. With out knowing that it is just conjectour. It also hinges on that Min thinks there is more to it than what Cadsuane says it means.

GonzoTheGreat
12-05-2009, 04:13 AM
It is also all dependend on the assumption that none of the many scholars who studied that part of the KC understood the OT. Since at least some of the studies date back to the time when the OT was still spoken ordinarily, I rather doubt that.

Then again, it might be interesting to let Mat read the original. He speaks (and presumably reads) the OT fluently, so he shouldn't be bothered by any translation problems. Of course, getting him to sit down and read may be a bit difficult. Perhaps Tuon could use some pink ribbons there.

wolframbohr2
12-05-2009, 04:58 AM
It is also all dependend on the assumption that none of the many scholars who studied that part of the KC understood the OT. Since at least some of the studies date back to the time when the OT was still spoken ordinarily, I rather doubt that.


That's why I pointed out the sceen with Moraine and the 2 retied AS she visited in tGH. If that part was indeed given in the AOL, then there should not be any doubt on the capitilization of it.

Also, we know that a lot of books were lost. We do not know how many of the original writings and studies exist. For all we know, all that is available is copies of copies of copies. Even with direct copies, errors crop up. Words get smudged or faded. The scriber then has to make judgment calls on what the word is.

Also languages change over time. The meaning of a word can change very quickly causing some interesting results. I actually gave thought to this for the hold/become part. There was a word I was thinking of, but was on the tip of my tongue but could nto think of it when I posted, that could be translated as both, Grasp. You can grasp something physicaly, or you can grasp a concept. It is an easly leap that grasp can become "hold" or that by grasping the concept of an idea you become that. Like I grasp what it means to be a dork, thus I become a dork.

For words changing meaning in a short time, a good example is the word "gay". It would be very interesting 1000 years from now to sit in an english class that is reading selected 19th and 20th centery lit and them trying to decipher what is ment with that word.

Morsker
12-05-2009, 05:24 AM
I came up with this thinking about the Fisher King legend, and it's also the only way I can see Rand letting a woman lead the circle with Callandor not be extremely disappointing to the reader.

Healing Rand's wound heals the Bore. (This is the whole point of the Fisher King legend. Healing the King fixes everything.) Nynaeve leads the circle; of course Rand can't heal himself. And Alivia is the other member, because she has to help Rand die. Rand's wound has resisted Healing in the past, but only because of the Seals; break the Seals and the wound can be healed, and with it the Bore.

It can be made more interesting. Make it require Shayol Ghul, and there's a need for armies to get there. Add a sword fight, and Rand can use Callandor that way even though he's not leading. And Alivia could lead the circle first to kick ass before passing it to Nynaeve, or maybe they have to pass back and forth because part of it requires Alivia's destructive talents. But the basic idea is that Rand being healed is the only kind of way someone else leading isn't going to be a huge disappointment.

Also I haven't seen "breaking the Seals and healing the wound heals the Bore" yet, although I really doubt I'm so original. If it's not around though, I can write up a theory for it.

wolframbohr2
12-05-2009, 05:30 AM
I came up with this thinking about the Fisher King legend, and it's also the only way I can see Rand letting a woman lead the circle with Callandor not be extremely disappointing to the reader.

Healing Rand's wound heals the Bore. (This is the whole point of the Fisher King legend. Healing the King fixes everything.) Nynaeve leads the circle; of course Rand can't heal himself. And Alivia is the other member, because she has to help Rand die. Rand's wound has resisted Healing in the past, but only because of the Seals; break the Seals and the wound can be healed, and with it the Bore.


Can a Healing Weave touch someone that is in the circle? Would it not be as if you are trying to heal yourself since you would be adding to the power that is used to make the weaves?

Morsker
12-05-2009, 05:40 AM
Can a Healing Weave touch someone that is in the circle? Would it not be as if you are trying to heal yourself since you would be adding to the power that is used to make the weaves? There's been so little linking in the series that I can't think of an example. I can see it going either way, but yeah this is definitely a cause for doubt.

GonzoTheGreat
12-05-2009, 05:48 AM
Let's improve upon the idea a bit.
Narishma wields Callandor, and channels the saidin part in the circle. Alivia uses the AS sa-angreal from the Tower, and channels saidar. Rand uses the TP. Obviously*, in such a link where the "three become one", a woman has to lead. So Alivia is in control, and uses all that power to Heal Rand. This locks away the DO (obviously), thus causing Rand to suddenly lose the TP. The shock kills him. This in turn annoys Nynaeve so much that she Heals death. Everyone is so distraught at the time, that no one can remember how she did it. Efforts to reannoy Nynaeve are discontinued after the rather unfortunate Scorpions In The Pond incident.

* Since I need that for my theory.

Morsker
12-05-2009, 06:53 AM
Maybe Rand can channel the TP and saidin at the same time. That would let Alivia and Nynaeve both be in the circle, and keep the requirement for 2 women. I can't see anyone but Nynaeve doing a healing powerful enough to heal the Bore, but Alivia has to be there too if Rand dies.

I don't think the TP is necessary for a "heal the wound" theory. In a way the theory is defeatist: nothing clever to do, just use the means the Pattern gave us. But there can always be a special reason the TP is needed to heal the wound, and it gives "three become one" more meaning.

edit: Adding to this, there's the complication using the TP in the Pit of Doom is supposed to fry you alive because it's too powerful there. Depending on how instantaneous this death is, it can provide an explanation for how Rand dies, or why Rand doesn't need a sa'angrael to channel so much of it. Or, it could just mean any scenario involving TP use in the Pit of Doom is impossible.

Bonzi77
12-05-2009, 11:38 AM
Why would Alivia lead the circle? She's stronger than Nynaeve, but in a link, all power is community power. Nynaeve is a more accomplished weaver at this point than Alivia, so it would make sense that Alivia would be in control.

Morsker
12-05-2009, 12:45 PM
I think Gonzo's theory just has no room for Nynaeve; it needed Rand, a man, and only one woman who had to be Alivia. In that case I'd rather put Nynaeve in the circle and come up with some other role for Alivia.

I've warmed up more to the TP being useful to heal Rand. We know the TP can be used to heal the Taint's madness, but that the OP can't do it. This is at least one way that the TP is useful for healing. I have more trouble seeing the TP used to heal the wound in Rand's side, but the TP healing Taint madness is counterintuitive enough, so who knows.

Yuri33
12-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Can a Healing Weave touch someone that is in the circle? Would it not be as if you are trying to heal yourself since you would be adding to the power that is used to make the weaves?

There's no example of healing someone while you are linked to them, but someone in a circle can be healed (to some extent, at least) while they are linked (to others):

WH, With the Choden Kal:
Cadsuane hesitated, something she was not accustomed to doing. The girl could not leave the circle until young al'Thor released her, but unless these Choedan Kal were flawed in the same way as Callandor, she would be buffered against taking in enough of the Power to damage her. Except that she was acting as a conduit for far more of saidar than the entire White Tower could have handled using every angreal and sa'angreal the Tower possessed. After having that flow through her for hours, simple physical exhaustion might be killing her.

Kneeling beside the girl, Cadsuane laid the swallow on the ground beside her, took the girl's head in her hands and lessened the amount of saidar she was putting into the shield. Her abilities with Healing were no more than average, but she could wash away some of the girl's exhaustion at least without falling over herself. She was very conscious of the weakened shield over them, though, and she wasted no time in forming the weaves.

Morsker
12-05-2009, 09:44 PM
I'd like a theory where one of the women channels the TP. There's an openning for this anyway. If Rand channeled the TP without permission in TGS, then the connection to Moridin is the best theory for how he did it, and Rand is special. But if Rand had permission in TGS, and I think he did because it was part of Moridin's grand scheme to drive Rand to nihilism, and Shadar Harran himself cooperated with that scheme so permission must've been there -- then all bets are off and whatever the method of using TP without permission, we haven't seen it yet.

Here's a speculative one. The 'Finn could have angreal for the True Power. There are many ways the 'Finn could have these things. We've been told they're exceptionally good at getting their hands on *angreal. Maybe the 'Finn use the TP without permission by naming him in their realm. In our realm the physics are different and naming isn't so powerful, but go to the Pit of Doom, use a TP sa'angreal with a buffer so it doesn't fry you instantly, name the Dark One, and you can get the TP without permission. That qualifies as "very difficult" but still within the means of our heroes.

Then either Nyneave or Alivia (or one of the two other women in another theory) gets to be the one to do it, and it gives more flexibility towards which power has to lead the circle, and still lets Rand use saidin with Callandor.

Trutino
12-06-2009, 02:42 AM
I came up with this thinking about the Fisher King legend, and it's also the only way I can see Rand letting a woman lead the circle with Callandor not be extremely disappointing to the reader.

Healing Rand's wound heals the Bore. (This is the whole point of the Fisher King legend. Healing the King fixes everything.) Nynaeve leads the circle; of course Rand can't heal himself. And Alivia is the other member, because she has to help Rand die. Rand's wound has resisted Healing in the past, but only because of the Seals; break the Seals and the wound can be healed, and with it the Bore.

It can be made more interesting. Make it require Shayol Ghul, and there's a need for armies to get there. Add a sword fight, and Rand can use Callandor that way even though he's not leading. And Alivia could lead the circle first to kick ass before passing it to Nynaeve, or maybe they have to pass back and forth because part of it requires Alivia's destructive talents. But the basic idea is that Rand being healed is the only kind of way someone else leading isn't going to be a huge disappointment.

Also I haven't seen "breaking the Seals and healing the wound heals the Bore" yet, although I really doubt I'm so original. If it's not around though, I can write up a theory for it.

It is an interesting thought. They've been talking about breaking the seals on the prison and Rand's wounds are always breaking open. I wonder if it could also happen the other way around. If the bore were sealed up like new, would the TP in Rand's side go away? I guess I had assumed that the point of the dueling powers in Rand's side was to show how Mashadar and TP worked against each other.

Do you have enough evidence for a theory? I don't know whether it's been discussed before. Someone who's been around longer than I have been would probably know, though.

Weird Harold
12-06-2009, 03:15 AM
Well, the three ta'veren have been "the three" since the series began. As to how they would become one, ...

The answer to how the three (legs of the tripod) become one (tripod) is that the legs of a tripod are separate items but form a single structure when brought together.

tDR
Chapter 5
Nightmares Walking

The Halfman started toward him, slowly, confident that fear held him in a snare. It moved like a snake, unlimbering a sword so black only the burning trees made it visible. "Cut one leg of the tripod," it said softly, "and all fall down."


A "Sword of Light" could well be the description of a bar/rod/beam of balefire from a visual foretelling like Min's viewings or a more conventional Foresight talent. Balefire isn't described in Prophecy as "Balefire" -- at least not in any that the Encyclopedia has collected -- but various descriptions, like "white hot bar" or "sword of light" might well be references to balefire.

I doubt that Callandor will reappear in the story or any other male angreal of any significant power. Rand destroyed the Chodean Kal because he realized it was more power than any single person should be able to command and his experiences with Callandor are what led him to that conclusion; if he gets the chance, I would expect him to destroy Callandor, too.

Trutino
12-06-2009, 05:48 PM
I doubt that Callandor will reappear in the story or any other male angreal of any significant power. Rand destroyed the Chodean Kal because he realized it was more power than any single person should be able to command and his experiences with Callandor are what led him to that conclusion; if he gets the chance, I would expect him to destroy Callandor, too.

It would be interesting to see him try. Min and Cadsuane seem pretty convinced of its importance. Hopefully he wouldn't try until we see what's up with Cads' old biddy AS who are examining it!

aynatal2000
12-06-2009, 06:31 PM
I think it is the three taveren( Rand,Mat and Perrin).They must look at something during the last battle no matter where they are in location to the last battle and they must see it as one. The colors have been a way of them linking and being aware of one another.I think Rand has told them they mustn't give in to it until a certain something happens.Think back to when he staged the great scene with Perrin and sent him and Faille on their way.Think of his sending Mat and the Band away.Moridin has begun to smell the rat and has put a price on Mat and Perrin's head... that is the three.Mat must blow the horn, Perrin must lead the song and Rand must wield Justice - not Callandor.Justice was Hawkwing's sword and Rand wielding it will guarantee the Seanchan will work with him; maybe him kneeling and returning it to Tuon is the prophecy.
I think Justice plays a big part in this as well as the ter angreal they found of the hand and the one that seems to play music or compose music; could that be the one that contains the song? Elayne has it and Perrin has Morgase... will he return her to her kingdom and find it?
I know I don't have all the pieces but since books 4-6 these are some of the things that seem to have been forgotten or cast aside never to be talked about on the forums at all... and of course Shara a land ruled by channelers who are killed after 7 years.What part do they play and which of the Chosen has hung their hat there where they would not be considered odd but mundane and regular?

nameless
12-06-2009, 07:33 PM
The answer to how the three (legs of the tripod) become one (tripod) is that the legs of a tripod are separate items but form a single structure when brought together.

tDR
Chapter 5
Nightmares Walking

The Halfman started toward him, slowly, confident that fear held him in a snare. It moved like a snake, unlimbering a sword so black only the burning trees made it visible. "Cut one leg of the tripod," it said softly, "and all fall down."


A "Sword of Light" could well be the description of a bar/rod/beam of balefire from a visual foretelling like Min's viewings or a more conventional Foresight talent. Balefire isn't described in Prophecy as "Balefire" -- at least not in any that the Encyclopedia has collected -- but various descriptions, like "white hot bar" or "sword of light" might well be references to balefire.

I doubt that Callandor will reappear in the story or any other male angreal of any significant power. Rand destroyed the Chodean Kal because he realized it was more power than any single person should be able to command and his experiences with Callandor are what led him to that conclusion; if he gets the chance, I would expect him to destroy Callandor, too.

"Sword of Light" is also the phrase Rand uses to describe the Spirit weave he invented to destroy the filter protecting Asmodean from the taint. That same weave proved very effective against Ishamael's True Power. Perhaps now that he's integrated his AoL knowledge Rand will figure out how to adapt the weave into some sort of anti-Shadow superweapon?

Tree Brother
12-07-2009, 01:10 PM
There's no example of healing someone while you are linked to them, but someone in a circle can be healed (to some extent, at least) while they are linked (to others):

The BA have a way to force linking. I thought part of that was so that the person forced could have their own power used against them. As long as link is not disrupted by the healing itself, I don't see an issue with being healed while linked.

Tree Brother
12-07-2009, 01:14 PM
Here's a speculative one. The 'Finn could have angreal for the True Power.

I thought there was no need of angreals for TP. The only limit on the amount of power you channel, is the amount the DO gives you access to...

ckparrothead
12-07-2009, 09:55 PM
The answer to how the three (legs of the tripod) become one (tripod) is that the legs of a tripod are separate items but form a single structure when brought together.

tDR
Chapter 5
Nightmares Walking

The Halfman started toward him, slowly, confident that fear held him in a snare. It moved like a snake, unlimbering a sword so black only the burning trees made it visible. "Cut one leg of the tripod," it said softly, "and all fall down."


A "Sword of Light" could well be the description of a bar/rod/beam of balefire from a visual foretelling like Min's viewings or a more conventional Foresight talent. Balefire isn't described in Prophecy as "Balefire" -- at least not in any that the Encyclopedia has collected -- but various descriptions, like "white hot bar" or "sword of light" might well be references to balefire.

I doubt that Callandor will reappear in the story or any other male angreal of any significant power. Rand destroyed the Chodean Kal because he realized it was more power than any single person should be able to command and his experiences with Callandor are what led him to that conclusion; if he gets the chance, I would expect him to destroy Callandor, too.

I disagree with this pretty strongly. I think that in that pivotal scene at the end of TGS, Brandon Sanderson went really far out of his way to set up a contrast between the Choedan Kal, more powerful and yet imperfect in its temptation of corruption, and Callandor...less powerful and yet perfect in its limitations.

He really went out of his way to set that up in that final scene, talking about how the prophecies all talk about Callandor and not the Choedan Kal. At the end, breaking the Choedan Kal was a choice, and the reader should read it as him having chosen Callandor, and a way much different from using brute power to enforce his will.

Wunderwaffe
12-07-2009, 11:45 PM
Could the "three" here indicate the three ta'veren or does it concretely allude to the use of Callandor?

hippie-joe
12-08-2009, 12:37 AM
idle speculation... and i didn't feel like reading through 5 pages of posts so if this is a repeat idea then sorry.

but it could mean that he is wearing one of the domination things. the seanchan call a damane and a suldam complete when connected by the adam. and the seanchan prophecy says he must bow to the crystal throne. what if he does this and they slap one of those pretty black necklaces on him and he can't find the true sorce? and now that the key and kal are gone all he has is the callandor so he is completedby 2 suldam as 3 become one and weald the sword that is not a sword at TG.

just a thought...

hippie-joe
12-08-2009, 01:22 AM
so as i was doing some back reading of the post after my previous idea i came across this and it got me thinking.

I have been giving this some thought and came up with something that I have not seen posted before. (sorry I don’t have my books, but tGS with me to look up exact quotes)

The Karaethon Cycle was foretold in the Old Tongue. What if the translation Min is reading was not translated properly? Certain assumptions may have been made as they translated that would impact what we understand it to be.

For example, iir Moraine, in TGH, has a discussion with 2 retired, AS about “Above the Watchers Over the Waves shall he proclaim himself”. One said “Watchers” should be lower case, one said upper case, and the differences it made. From what we read in that sceen and from happened later on we know that it indeed should be capitalized and what it actually means.

Now, for “He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one.” How could this have been translated incorrectly? For one, Rand only has one hand. The line says “hands”. This gave me pause and why I started thinking about this. What if the “holding and hands” was implied based on the OT words used. More on this after I get to the next part.

“And the three shall be one”. What if the three are the Dragon, the Car’a’carn, and the Coramoor. Yes, they are the same person, but Rand has them compartmentalized. He is one of them depending on what he is doing. The people who follow these prophesies view him as just one of them, depending on who they are. Rand needs to combine them and make them one, he needs to transend the Prophesises. He needs to become all of them and have everyone on the Light see him as such. During the Last Battle Rand will be fighting for the Light. He will be fighitng for all of these people. The forces of the light need to be united, not segmented. They need to follow not just Rand, but who Rand is, the combined Rand, not the one that means differnet things to differnet people.

This brings us back to the beging again. What does Siswai’aman mean? Literaly, Spears of the Dragon. But that is not what it is. It is an unacknowledged name given to the many male Aiel, even Gai’shain, who have taken to wearing a red headband with the old AS symble. What if “blade of light” should be “Blade of Light”? What if it has the same type of meaning as Siswai’aman? What if Rand is the Blade of Light? He is the champion for the Light at the Last Battle. Blade, well he wears and uses a sword. Light well he is on the side of the Light.

What if the line should be translated as “ He becomes (not holds) the Blade of Light (no hands this part assumed on OT translations), the three (prophised types) become one."

This all hinges on what the OT line is for this translation. With out knowing that it is just conjectour. It also hinges on that Min thinks there is more to it than what Cadsuane says it means.

the never healing wounds have been worked on by both saidar and saidin one at a time.
what if the way to heal them is similar to the cleansing of saidin? only both saidar and the clean saidin must be used as a buffer for the man-made evil from the fains sweet blade and the DO concentrate. just as saidar was used to buffer the taint on saidin and Shadar logoth.

personally i don't think rand could access the TP if he wanted to now that he can laugh again. i think a large portion of who he used to be has come back and he doesn't have it in him to tap into it again.

epic
12-27-2009, 10:34 PM
We're all assuming that "3 shall become one" means that 3 things will merge into 1 thing

It could be interpreted as 3 of something, 2 of them are destroyed and one is left

Cor Shan
12-28-2009, 07:52 PM
Sounds like a good way to have both sides of the power tainted by the Dark One.

(first off, I'm not active enough to quote things)

Firstly: Right before Rand first channels the True Power, LTT says something along the lines of how the female Aes Sedia's abandonment lead to the tainting of Saidin. Add in the RJ quote that if Saidar had been used to seal the bore, it would have been tainted.

Secondly: In the cleansing, we see how Saidar and Saidin can be woven together, but not touching. This leads to my assumption, which is: "Saidar, Saidin, and True Power can all be woven together, yet not touching." This touching is immune to the taint; which is what prevented any taint from rubbing off into the immense volume of saidar that the conduit was made from.

Assuming this is true, we need a way to seal the bore, that involves a Power that can touch the bore/DO without letting him taint it.

Rand, apparently, can channel the TP now. Therefore: Weave all three together in a way which only lets the TP interact with the actual Bore, the One Power elements just patch the pattern.

There. Three becoming one.
Major flaw: the Dark One lets people channel the TP. If there is no way around it (i.e.: getting the TP from another source [Creator?]), he must think that Rand's Sealing will let him out, and be wrong.

/I don't know if I'll be back for real. Just finished TGS.

Terez
12-28-2009, 08:38 PM
I don't know if I'll be back for real. Just finished TGS.
Welcome back anyway. :)

Zaela Sedai
12-28-2009, 08:41 PM
Welcome back anyway. :)


Holy Crap Cor!!! Hi!!!!!

GonzoTheGreat
12-29-2009, 04:48 AM
There. Three becoming one.
Major flaw: the Dark One lets people channel the TP. If there is no way around it (i.e.: getting the TP from another source [Creator?]), he must think that Rand's Sealing will let him out, and be wrong.When Moghedien goes to the Pit of Doom to get mind trapped, she remarks to herself that the whole place is flooded by the TP. That suggests that the DO might not be able to turn it off, that close to him.
Of course, she also remarks to herself that trying to use it would be instantly lethal, which is a bit of a drawback. But I'm willing to ignore that detail for now, in order to let you work out your theory a bit further.

Cor Shan
12-29-2009, 06:33 PM
When Moghedien goes to the Pit of Doom to get mind trapped, she remarks to herself that the whole place is flooded by the TP. That suggests that the DO might not be able to turn it off, that close to him.
Of course, she also remarks to herself that trying to use it would be instantly lethal, which is a bit of a drawback. But I'm willing to ignore that detail for now, in order to let you work out your theory a bit further.

Well, we know that Callandor (and I know others have speculated that Callandor can also amplify the TP) doesn't have a restriction on the amount of power you can draw, but it still does let you draw more than you otherwise could. Perhaps that could work? But I do like that Moghedien remark.

Bane Darkwulf
12-29-2009, 08:51 PM
1. RJ said he had two personalities, not three.

2. It's 'blade of light', not 'beacon of light'.

Two personalities, yes, but 3 PERSONAS.

The word persona comes from the ancient Greek word for mask. Everyone has multiple personas, or masks, that they show to the world. You are not the same person at home as you are at work, hanging out with your friends, or even online. All of these personas are just glimmers of your true personality. A woman can have the personas of a daughter, a sister, a wife, a mother, a supervisor, a subordinate, a coworker, and a friend. All the same woman, with only one personality, but many different masks. some of the masks will merge, such as friend and coworker. All the same woman, yet with different faces shown to different people. It wouldn't do to treat a coworker as a daughter at the same time, or your mother as your subordinate. Now, obviously this is not including when you actually work with family, but it still works when you do, because you need to separate family life and work. People evolve these personas over time, normally years.

Rand's Personas are LTT, Rand, and the Dragon Reborn. He has tried throughout the series to weld them into one persona, but has failed at it up until now. The three are one. They were welded together when Rand decided that the reason to fight is for love, not because he was destined to.
LTT is the Knowledge of how to do the things he has to; The Dragon Reborn is the Willpower,or spirit, to do what he needs to; and Rand is the Body, for without physical form all the knowledge and willpower do you no good, as you cannot affect the real world. He needed to combine the three to be able to do the things he has to to save the world. Mind, Body, and Soul.