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Yellowbeard
12-11-2009, 02:22 PM
So aside from the major (but small) tidbit that we've all missed, what new theories can we really come up with? I have a feeling we're not going to come up with much new from here on out. The next two books will be wrapping up and concluding the story...not bringing in new things.

I have a feeling the majority book debate will be limited to these things:
-Realer's vs. construct squabbling (it will never end)
-Who killed Asmo?
-Where/who is Demandred/Mesaana?
-Musings on the detail that we missed (which we won't figure out until the next book or even the last one comes out - i mean if it is well hidden enough that we haven't found it by now, we won't)
-Wow! type moments when the next two books come out and the story is resolved.

There really isn't much else that I can see provoking any sort of interesting debate.

PS - note i said "debate", not discussion. I.e. things that are not agreed on in general.

Tercel
12-11-2009, 03:29 PM
I've got a new theory: The Dark One has control of Verin's Soul.

Explanation:

1) Verin explained to Egwene that swearing to the Shadow was far more involved than merely taking oaths on the oath rod. Verin doubted unswearing the oaths would be sufficient to break her from the DO.

2) The Lord of the Grave has some power over the dead, perhaps especially over those who have sworn to him.

3) The strange wording of the Dark Oath to not betray the DO "except in the hour of one's death" is somewhat remarkable, as Verin herself noted. One possible explanation is that the DO, knowing he has power over darkfriend souls after death, is happy for them to betray him in their final hour, knowing he can inflict whatever punishment he wants after their death.

So it seems hypothetically plausible that the DO has Verin's soul after death. But what evidence do we have that it actually has happened?

A) Shadar Haran mysteriously has knowledge that Elza has been subjected to a Compulsion. Verin is the only one who knows of this. (Note: I've checked the attempts at tGS chronologies, and they show that this scene happened after Verin's death) While SH may have a magical ability to detect the OP and hence the compulsion, another explanation is that the DO interrogated Verin after death.

B) Several among the Black Ajah among the Rebels escaped despite Egwene's precautions, mysteriously having knowledge of what Egwene was about. An explanation for their knowledge is that the DO's interrogation of Verin had revealed the threat to the Black, and he had passed this on to them.

Terez
12-11-2009, 03:44 PM
-Realer's vs. construct squabbling (it will never end)
Thank the Creator. It's a damn good argument, and it should never die. :D

-Who killed Asmo?
Also thanks to the Creator, this one will die, because it has almost zero plot significance and should therefore go away. Methinks the Creator has good taste.

-Where/who is Demandred/Mesaana?
Demandred is Demandred. Graendal's comment about her suspicion that he had some hand in the Borderlanders is simply yet more evidence that Demandred has his hands in a few things, probably via proxies. RJ never confirmed that Demandred had an alter ego at all.

Mesaana is posing as someone, though, and I'm sure we'll find out who she is. There are a few good candidates, and it seems that Laras at least has been disqualified, and Brandon has near-confirmed that she is posing as an Aes Sedai that remains in the Tower. That is good.

-Musings on the detail that we missed (which we won't figure out until the next book or even the last one comes out - i mean if it is well hidden enough that we haven't found it by now, we won't)
We already found it. It's Mat's hat. (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/group.php?groupid=1)

There really isn't much else that I can see provoking any sort of interesting debate.
There are quite a few things that have already provoked interesting debate:

1. What, exactly, is the nature of Rand's link with Moridin? We learned a lot more about it in this book, but we still haven't quite figured it out yet (though we can take consolation in the fact that neither one of them seems to have figured it out either). We have prophecies concerning this, and new material to work with.

2. What went down with Semirhage? What, exactly, was Shaidar Haran trying to accomplish? Who was in on the plan? Was the Rand-Moridin link taken into account, and the True Power usage predictable (tying back into 1 - was the link indeed responsible for Rand's access)? Was Elza granted temporary usage of the True Power (and was her death also anticipated), or is Sorilea a Darkfriend?

3. What, exactly, is up with the blade of light and three shall be one thing? Is Callandor important?

4. Where did the Black Ajah escapees go? There are many that think they might have gone to the Black Tower to ally with Taim's men, and Mesaana cares little enough about them that she would have sent them there to be bonded by Taim's men without giving them a heads up. We have to remember that Demandred is in charge of the Demandred-Mesaana-Semirhage alliance, and he's known to have given orders to Asha'man, and beyond that, the Asha'man seemed to have the impression that Taim and Demandred were well-acquainted. Moridin is Nae'blis, and it seems as though all the Asha'man are aware of this. Were the guards at Moridin's fortress Taim's Asha'man? The Black Ajah has been secretive by nature, but the Black Tower was formed at a time where the secrecy was never intended to be more than temporary. This could get interesting.

5. There were some more clues for the Battle of Caemlyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camlann) dropped in The Gathering Storm. This is something that Dom and Linda have been talking about a lot over at 13th Depository, and it makes a great deal of sense, considering a lot of things. The Borderlanders are now in Far Madding, and sort of out of the picture for that battle, and it's looking more and more like it will involve the Black Tower battle. If Rand is going to die here, though (like Arthur died at Camlann), then it would have to be something like Taim's palace being made out of rocks from Shayol Ghul. Which would be awfully weird. But I can see the Severed Band theory coming into play here certainly. It was Arthur vs. Mordred, though. That could refer to Demandred and Mordeth, technically (mangled legends and all). I've theorized that Fain sent the Shadowspawn attack at Algarin's manor, because it would have been in character with Mordeth's way of doing things (subverting the Shadow's methods as a means of fighting the Shadow, and in Fain's case, as a means of getting at Rand). Anyway, then there's Logain stepping over a paper puppet of Rand's body to step on a black stone (Taim's addressing stone? made out of Shayol Ghul rock?), and Logain's glory. So maybe Rand will simply fake his death here. Tons of things to discuss.

6. How will Egwene's confrontation with Rand go? Who will the Seanchan woman be? Has the Black Tower been rent in blood and fire yet? (probably not, though Aes Sedai have already walked its grounds.) Will Egwene show up to the Battle of Camlann with her 2000 novices and the Kin in tow?? Will she get Mesaana before then? Is that how she will learn of Demandred's plans?? Could get exciting, you know. :) Oh, and Gawyn. What is going to go down between Egwene and Gawyn? Will Rand be involved?

7. Will Rand manage to marry all his girls before he dies? They are intent on it. Elayne is pregnant, so her honor is supposedly at stake (though she didn't seem to mind letting everyone believe that her baby was Daved Hanlon/Doilin Mellar's). Aviendha will be coming back from Rhuidean with her honor intact. Watch out, Rand...

8. What will go down at Ghenjei? We've got a few more clues to work with, some more info in the 'Finns and Cyndane from Brandon, so more incentive to rip apart both of the previous 'Finnland experiences, both conveniently (for this discussion) in Mat's point of view. Moiraine's whole letter to Thom was in the glossary this time around, and some think that might be important.

9. Moiraine. What will she do when she gets out? Man, we miss her. Even Nynaeve misses her. Sometimes.

10. How will Perrin and the Whitecloaks come into it all? Will they be involved in the Caemlyn battle (if there is indeed to be one)? Will Perrin and Elayne have a confrontation over the 'rebellion' in the Two Rivers? Perrin had to be forged into a hammer, via the Faile fiasco. For the Last Battle, I'm sure (he had to learn to use his anger to his advantage, which he has always been reluctant to do, and therefore was quite unskilled at...but that forever-long fiasco managed to change that somewhat). But maybe for the confrontation with Elayne also? Because if he argues with her about it, he will win.

11. Cadsuane. What will go down with her? Brandon said that 'part' of the viewing about what Cadsuane must teach Rand and the Asha'man has been fulfilled. What will the rest of it be?

12. Tuon. Or, Fortuona. I will continue to call her Tuon until Mat calls her Fortuona, just because. Anyway, what part will she play? How will the truce come about? She considers the attack on the Tower to be mostly successful, and she might even gain more confidence if she sees Elaida enough as a person to consider what useful information she might have. Her experiences while kidnapped might be just enough for that. What part will Mat play? Will Tuon be planning any more attacks?

13. The Borderlands front. What is Lan up to? Ituralde? We might learn something of that next book. Also, the Borderland rulers in Far Madding (briefly mentioned before). What will come of that? Is Demandred really involved with them? Will Rand meet with them inside the box? Will he channel the True Power again?

14. Verin's letters. What will we learn about them? Will Mat open his? Will we see anyone else that got one? Will we see more of what Verin wrote about them in her book, via Egwene? Will Egwene make that book public, now that she knows all of her Aes Sedai have sworn? Or will she confide only to a trusted few that Mesaana is still in the Tower?

15. Tam, and Rand's lost innocence. Will Rand regain it somehow now? Will he be able to talk to Tam now, and remember who he was before? Or has he ruined that? Will Moiraine help him? In Towers of Midnight, or in A Memory of Light?

Those are just off the top o my head.

Bryan Blaire
12-11-2009, 06:10 PM
Will we see an exchange of hostages as part of the Seanchan truce (Aesir and Vanir concepts), via Mat's Odinesqueness?

Kurtz
12-11-2009, 06:19 PM
Min will lose her Ability if she doesn't die.

The poor lass deserves peace.

Also the traditional Warder bond will disappear, because it's a bit shit.

Brita
12-11-2009, 07:19 PM
Also the traditional Warder bond will disappear, because it's a bit shit.

I agree- never liked the idea of amazingly talented men basically being an AS watchdog/lapdogs. I will be glad to see the playing field leveled a bit, and the bond relationship changed.

Kurtz
12-11-2009, 07:39 PM
I agree- never liked the idea of amazingly talented men basically being an AS watchdog/lapdogs. I will be glad to see the playing field leveled a bit, and the bond relationship changed.

The reason for this will be the Asha'man and the debilitating affects to Aes Sedai when theirb Warder dies.

Unfortunately

GonzoTheGreat
12-12-2009, 05:42 AM
New theory: not Logain or Rand, but Mat will do away with Taim.
Mat is going to be stuck in that neighbourhood with a lot of time on his hands, waiting until his deal with Verin has run its course. Eventually, he is going to get bored. And what does he do when he is bored? He annoys channelers. (All right, he also does that when he isn't bored. Doesn't weaken my theory, does it?) So Taim gets angry, and reveals too much. He channels to kill Mat, and discovers (for a very short while, before he has a knife in his throat) that that doesn't work.

wolframbohr2
12-12-2009, 06:23 AM
New Theory Thingy: When the DO breaks free Rand will be there smoking a pipe. He will give some Two Rivers tabac to the DO and TG will just end. The DO is just cranky cause the Creator imprisoned he to get him to quit smoking. The blood on the rocks is Rand getting a paper cut, cause he has the tabac in a paper pouch, and him on a funeral pire is him accidently seeting himself on fire when he lights the DO's pipe.

Also;

Gonzo > whoopie pies
Terez > sex

(It is a 50/50 spit on which a Lancaster county bred guy would take if given the choice)

GonzoTheGreat
12-12-2009, 07:08 AM
Update to my theory: Mat may learn from Verin's letter that Taim is a DF. That'd spur him into some sort of action, I expect.

Terez
12-12-2009, 11:35 AM
New theory: not Logain or Rand, but Mat will do away with Taim.
I theorized that a long time ago. I think I offered up Demandred and Moridin as potential Mat-targets as well, lol...

Trutino
12-12-2009, 02:25 PM
I theorized that a long time ago. I think I offered up Demandred and Moridin as potential Mat-targets as well, lol...

It would certainly be an interesting demonstration of Channeling Warfare (Taim) vs. Gunpowder Warfare (Mat) and would be a way to reinforce possible old era vs. new era themes.

Terez
12-12-2009, 02:57 PM
I was thinking more like channeling warfare vs. Mat's medallion and spear...

GonzoTheGreat
12-12-2009, 04:05 PM
“Release the shield,” he told her as if he expected obedience. Karede’s eyebrows rose. This was the plaything? Melitene and Mylen gasped almost as one, and the young man barked a laugh. “You see. it doesn’t work on me. Now you bloody well release the shields, or I’ll bloody well haul you out of the saddle and paddle your bottoms.”Perhaps Mat can succeed with Taim where Cadsuane failed with Semirhage.

Yellowbeard
12-14-2009, 03:47 AM
3. What, exactly, is up with the blade of light and three shall be one thing? Is Callandor important?

i don't know the exact answer, of course, but...duh!! of course callandor is important. something about the flaw in it will allow rand to do something with it that he could not do with any other sa'/ter'/etc.-angreal. this is yet another tie back to arthurian legends...the sword in the stone, etc. callandor will be uber important, just like excalibur was to arthur.

the question is...who is the lady of the lake?

as for the three shall be one thing...that's easy. the three are rand, mat, and perrin. they all have to be present for rand to be able to defeat the DO, in addition to rand wielding callandor to do it. but that goes back to EotW, when min could see the darkness vs. lights swirling around them all, and when all of them together, the lights are able to fight off being swallowed by the darkness. we've known they all three have to stand against the DO together since the first book.

and since it is 3:42 am where i am (damn insomnia) i will be interested to see just how quickly and when terez responds next as i will any other posts. :D

Terez
12-14-2009, 04:22 AM
the question is...who is the lady of the lake?Nynaeve.

One Armed Gimp
12-14-2009, 06:10 AM
A) Shadar Haran mysteriously has knowledge that Elza has been subjected to a Compulsion. Verin is the only one who knows of this. (Note: I've checked the attempts at tGS chronologies, and they show that this scene happened after Verin's death) While SH may have a magical ability to detect the OP and hence the compulsion, another explanation is that the DO interrogated Verin after death.

Not sure which chronology you checked, but this obviously did not happen after her death. Verin died the day of the Seachan attack which did not happen until after Rand met with Tuon and that did not happen until after the episode with Semi. However SH knew, it was not through interrogation of Verin's soul.

B) Several among the Black Ajah among the Rebels escaped despite Egwene's precautions, mysteriously having knowledge of what Egwene was about. An explanation for their knowledge is that the DO's interrogation of Verin had revealed the threat to the Black, and he had passed this on to them.

If that were the case I would image that more would have escaped instead of the handful that did. I would also argue that Sheriam would have been one of the first warned. However, if the DO's minions had time enough to warn those in the camp, they had plenty of time to warn those in the WT and most likely all would have escaped. That did not happen. More than likely, word just got around. If you realized that those not leaving the tent were Black, then you knew to get the heck out and could very well warned those in the WT you knew.

Yellowbeard
12-14-2009, 12:29 PM
i don't see nynaeve being the lady of the lake. excalibur was returned to the water. the role will probably be a seafolk person. there will turn out to be a coramoor prophecy that is fulfilled by calandor being given to the seafolk after the last battle.

Ozymandias
12-14-2009, 01:35 PM
I
3) The strange wording of the Dark Oath to not betray the DO "except in the hour of one's death" is somewhat remarkable, as Verin herself noted. One possible explanation is that the DO, knowing he has power over darkfriend souls after death, is happy for them to betray him in their final hour, knowing he can inflict whatever punishment he wants after their death.

So it seems hypothetically plausible that the DO has Verin's soul after death. But what evidence do we have that it actually has happened?


None. None evidence. I find it unlikely that he's taken the time or effort to torment Verin. Firstly, she's not a true Darkfriend, though he may very well have some increased power over her due to the oaths. However, whether or not those carry over into the afterlife, if they are bound to the soul or the body, is something we may never know.

Robert Jordan Answers: The Dark One doesn't care about his minions sufficiently to invest much time in their punishment except as it serves to correct their behavior or as object lesson to others, nor is there much in the way of gradation. Simple failure and outright betrayal might be punished equally, or one might result in death and the other in becoming an object lesson or in something else. (The mindtrap, by the way, could be called an object lesson only to the one so trapped; remember, none of the Forsaken know who is mindtrapped except Moridin and those who are trapped.) The decision, death or object lesson or something else, normally would be simply a matter of whether or not he believed there was any point to an object lesson and/or whether or not he felt there was really any further use in the individual. Or, for that matter, made for reasons unknowable to a human mind. Remember, the Dark One is NOT human and thinking of him in human terms just doesn't work.

Its just not worth the effort to him to torture her. It serves no purpose. No one will ever know she's being tormented, and thus she can't serve as the aforementioned "object lesson". He'll probably just have his captains tighten up the oaths so it can't happen again. He's got better things on his mind than torturing one soul.

Daekyras
12-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Nynaeve.

explanation? Not that i'm disagreeing, just want to know why you think this.

Yellowbeard
12-14-2009, 02:53 PM
"nynaeve" is very close to "nyneve" - which was the name of the lady of the lake in various versions of the arthurian legend...and also the name of the woman that trapped merlin forever by some accounts. i believe some accounts of the arthurian legends might also use the name for women that did other things, but i'm not expert.

i personally don't see nynaeve doing anything akin to the arthurian stories in WoT, unless she's the one delivering or committing callandor to the deep sea after the last battle. maybe on a separate boat from rand and his harem.

Daekyras
12-14-2009, 04:28 PM
"nynaeve" is very close to "nyneve" - which was the name of the lady of the lake in various versions of the arthurian legend...and also the name of the woman that trapped merlin forever by some accounts. i believe some accounts of the arthurian legends might also use the name for women that did other things, but i'm not expert.

I always thought that was Viviane but I could be wrong. I remember reading one a few years ago where the lady of the lake was called ELAINE. But I don't think thats relevant...

i personally don't see nynaeve doing anything akin to the arthurian stories in WoT, unless she's the one delivering or committing callandor to the deep sea after the last battle. maybe on a separate boat from rand and his harem.

Hasn't she been given a job similar to that before? Fine job she did of it if I remember!:D

Still, I'm sure she'll find a way to blame it on Mat.....or Moiraine...

Kimon
12-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Her name is given as Nimue in most of the versions- Malory and T.H. White notably both use this moniker for Merlin's lover/betrayer. Her name appears as Vivianne in Tennyson. Not sure which author uses Nyneve. Nynaeve probably is meant to allude to the lady though. Too bad though really, as Moiraine really would seem to fit better, with her connection both to Thom Merrilin and to Callandor. Maybe Callandor will break sometime soon and Nynaeve will heal it...

Daekyras
12-14-2009, 04:53 PM
Too bad though really, as Moiraine really would seem to fit better, with her connection both to Thom Merrilin and to Callandor. Maybe Callandor will break sometime soon and Nynaeve will heal it...

Moiraine is used as a name for morgan La fey in a couple of versions....

Forgot about Nimue. Gonna blame it on the fact it has been years since i've read Malory.

Terez
12-14-2009, 05:02 PM
Her name is given as Nimue in most of the versions- Malory and T.H. White notably both use this moniker for Merlin's lover/betrayer. Her name appears as Vivianne in Tennyson. Not sure which author uses Nyneve. Nynaeve probably is meant to allude to the lady though. Too bad though really, as Moiraine really would seem to fit better, with her connection both to Thom Merrilin and to Callandor. Maybe Callandor will break sometime soon and Nynaeve will heal it...
The beauty of RJ is that his parallels are not explicit. Both Rand and Mat have Odin characteristics, for example. Galad's genealogy is twisted similar to that of Galahad's, but different....and Morgase's role is similar to that of Morguase, but different.

dukescott
12-16-2009, 03:41 AM
A) Shadar Haran mysteriously has knowledge that Elza has been subjected to a Compulsion. Verin is the only one who knows of this. (Note: I've checked the attempts at tGS chronologies, and they show that this scene happened after Verin's death) While SH may have a magical ability to detect the OP and hence the compulsion, another explanation is that the DO interrogated Verin after death.

The answer may be as simple as a Forsaken ordered her to put the compulsion on to set up a future event such as this?

. How will Egwene's confrontation with Rand go? Who will the Seanchan woman be?

Can someone point me to the quote that this references. I can't find it. :(

dukescott
12-16-2009, 03:52 AM
Has anyone put any thought into Galad's reaction if/when he finds out he is the Dragon Reborn's half brother? Could this sway him into following Rand because it is "the right thing to do"?

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2009, 04:55 AM
Has anyone put any thought into Galad's reaction if/when he finds out he is the Dragon Reborn's half brother? Could this sway him into following Rand because it is "the right thing to do"?Perhaps it will make him decide never ever to kill any woman?
Alternatively, he may start slapping Cadsuane at every opportunity. That'd be neat, wouldn't it?

nameless
12-16-2009, 06:28 AM
If Rand has any manners left at all he'll give Galad his extra power-wrought sword. He doesn't need two of the things and Galad is a legitimate scion of House Damodred so he's got more of a right to Laman's sword than Rand does.

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2009, 06:52 AM
With swords like that, conquest is a legitimate way of gaining possession. And Rand beat that cushion in a fair fight, so the sword belongs to him.

And there were even witnesses. Well, one witness, but Aviendha complained enough for a dozen.

Terez
12-16-2009, 11:20 AM
How will Egwene's confrontation with Rand go? Who will the Seanchan woman be? Can someone point me to the quote that this references. I can't find it. :(
There are three that I can think of. One about the Seanchan woman, one about the confrontation between Rand and Egwene, and one about both:

TITLE - Crossroads of Twilight
CHAPTER: 20 - In the Night

She was struggling up a narrow, rocky path along the face of a towering cliff. Clouds surrounded her, hiding the ground below and the crest above, yet she knew that both were very far away. She had to place her feet very carefully. The path was a cracked ledge barely wide enough for her to stand on with one shoulder pressed against the cliff, a ledge littered with stones as large as her fist that could turn under a misplaced step and send her hurtling over the edge. It almost seemed this was like the dreams of pushing millstones and pulling carts, yet she knew it was a true dream.

Abruptly, the ledge dropped away from under her with the crack of crumbling stone, and she caught frantically at the cliff, fingers scrabbling to find a hold. Her fingertips slid into a tiny crevice, and her fall stopped with a jolt that wrenched her arms. Feet dangling into the clouds, she listened to the falling stone crash against the cliff until the sound faded to nothing without the stone ever hitting the ground. Dimly, she could see the broken ledge to her left. Ten feet away, it might as well have been a mile off for all the chance she had of reaching it. In the other direction, the mists hid whatever remained of the path, but she thought it had to be farther away still. There was no strength in her arms. She could not pull herself up, only hang there by her fingertips until she fell. The edge of the crevice seemed as sharp as a knife under her fingers.

Suddenly a woman appeared, clambering down the sheer side of the cliff out of the clouds, making her way as deftly as if she were walking down stairs. There was a sword strapped to her back. Her face wavered, never settling clearly, but the sword seemed as solid as the stone. The woman reached Egwene’s level and held out one hand. “We can reach the top together,” she said in a familiar drawl*ing accent.

Egwene pushed the dream away as she would have a viper. She felt her body thrash, heard herself groan in her sleep, but for a moment she could do nothing. She had dreamed of the Seanchan before, of a Seanchan woman somehow tied to her, but this was a Seanchan who would save her. No! They had put a leash on her, made her damane. She would as soon die as be saved by a Seanchan! A very long time passed before she could address herself to calming her sleeping body. Or maybe it only seemed a long time. Not a Seanchan; never that!

TITLE - A Crown of Swords
PROLOGUE - Lightnings

Elaida clenched her fist as though she held all the rebels by the throat. Or Alviarin. "I mean to break them, daughter. They will split open like a rotten melon." Her secret assured that, however many farmers and tailors Lord Bryne hung on to, but let the other woman think as she would. Suddenly the Foretelling took hold of her, a certainty about things she could not see stronger than if they had been laid out before her. She would have been willing to step blindly over a cliff on that certainty. "The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. Rand al’Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This I Foretell."

TITLE - The Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 48 - Following the Craft

Tel'aran'rhiod still showed her little of immediate use. Sometimes there had been glimpses of Rand, or Mat, or Perrin, and more in her own dreams without the ter'angreal, but nothing of which she could make any sense. The Seanchan, who she refused to think about. Nightmares of a Whitecloak putting Master Luhhan in the middle of a huge, toothed trap for bait. Why should Perrin have a falcon on his shoulder, and what was important about him choosing between that axe he wore now and a blacksmith's hammer? What did it mean that Mat was dicing with the Dark One, and why did he keep shouting, "I am coming!" and why did she think in the dream that he was shouting at her? And Rand. He had been sneaking through utter darkness toward Callandor, while all around him six men and five women walked, some hunting him and some ignoring him, some trying to guide him toward the shining crystal sword and some trying to stop him from reaching it, appearing not to know where he was, or only to see him in flashes. One of the men had eyes of flame, and he wanted Rand dead with a desperation she could nearly taste. She thought she knew him. Ba'alzamon. But who were the others? Rand in that dry, dusty chamber again, with those small creatures settling into his skin. Rand confronting a horde of Seanchan. Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan. It was all too confusing. She had to stop thinking about Rand and the others and put her mind to what was right ahead of her. What is the Black Ajah up to? Why don't I dream something about them? Light, why can't I learn to make it do what I want?

halo6819
12-17-2009, 12:55 AM
looney theory, callandor's flaw allows the amplification of TP, and rand will use that and the TP to seal up the DO's prison

Trutino
12-18-2009, 10:14 PM
Not so much a theory, more a question. The original titles of the three books were: Gathering Clouds, Shifting Winds, and Tarmon Gaidon. We have the clouds and saw Rand's mood darken, etc in the first book. "Tarmon Gaidon" suggests that aMoL is going to be focused on the actual battles and their aftermath. Why was ToM's working title "Shifting Winds?" Since it was a working title, it suggests that it was there to remind the people working on it what the major point of the book was. Any thoughts?

Terez
12-18-2009, 10:22 PM
I wouldn't attribute too much significance to it - the gathering clouds referred to the Dark One's touch, and the shifting winds might have as well (what we saw with Rand in chapter 1).

thisiscooling
12-19-2009, 12:39 AM
Maybe tuon realizes its better to fight evil than to fight aes sedai while the dark one is threatening the land

and tuon and egwene tag team smack down rand....

GonzoTheGreat
12-19-2009, 05:45 AM
If Tuon abolishes the a'dam and frees the damane, would that mean that Elaida can get an honored position amongst the Seanchan?

wolframbohr2
12-19-2009, 05:51 AM
If Tuon abolishes the a'dam and frees the damane, would that mean that Elaida can get an honored position amongst the Seanchan?

The only Honored position she should get is hanging in a black silk bag from the battlements of the Tower of Ravens untill the bag rots away.

Spasmodean
12-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Blood on the Rocks becomes the new cocktail craze of Randland, so much so that Ishy decides to open a Forsaken Cocktail in Shayol Ghul bar for them to gather in while scheming and Rand pops in for a dream visit one night and while getting frisky with Aran'gar spills his drink.

wolframbohr2
12-20-2009, 03:30 PM
Narg will be reserected by the DO. Since Narg died trying to bring Rand to the Dark Side, he got 100 Princess Leia look a like slave girls, but on reserection he is goona be ticked and rock Rand's World. After all, Narg smart.

the silent speaker
12-20-2009, 04:05 PM
It is my controversial theory that Demandred is actually hiding as Mesanna.

jason wolfbrother
12-21-2009, 12:19 AM
Puts a whole new spin on Mesaana's punishment from Shaidar Haran though doesn't it ;) ;)

the silent speaker
12-21-2009, 10:55 PM
That depends on what is meant where it says Demandred liked using "proxies". :D