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natural1dave
12-16-2009, 05:10 PM
I read in a post on another forum that RJ answered firmly and repeatedly that stilling wasn't healable - obviously before this was introduced in the books.

Is this true? If so, doesn't this invalidate any "RJ said" argument to pretty much...everything?

greatwolf
12-16-2009, 05:34 PM
huh?

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2009, 05:39 PM
I've never seen such an RJ quote. Of course, that does not necessarily mean that it does not exist.

natural1dave
12-16-2009, 05:40 PM
Basically, if RJ lied in the stilling case, couldn't he also have lied about everything else he answered?

So should we even bother relying upon items he has answered?

wolframbohr2
12-16-2009, 05:44 PM
Was it stilling or burning out? There is a quote somewhere about how much harder burning out would be to heal. I think he gave an analogy of a broken bone, one being a clean break (stilling) and one that is shattered (buring out).

It also depenends also if there was more than one question that was asked at once, he could have said "no" but not clarify which part is the no part.

Belazamon
12-16-2009, 05:49 PM
I'm afraid you're gonna have to post some evidence for your pretty strong claim here, chief.

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2009, 06:01 PM
Basically, if RJ lied in the stilling case, couldn't he also have lied about everything else he answered?While that is true, we do not have actual evidence that he has lied. All we have so far is your question, which is no more than that: a question.

Terez
12-16-2009, 06:58 PM
I read in a post on another forum that RJ answered firmly and repeatedly that stilling wasn't healable - obviously before this was introduced in the books.
He did not, not even once, much less 'repeatedly'. Stilling was Healed in Lord of Chaos, and that book was released at the dawn of time (so far as the internet is concerned). We have almost nothing from RJ in the interview database before Lord of Chaos.

Davian93
12-16-2009, 07:06 PM
However, that does not preclude someone at another forum pulling a BS "quote" out of their 4th point of contact to try and prove a point.

It does happen...not around here so much as you'll get called on it almost immediately.

Terez
12-16-2009, 07:15 PM
Yeah, if you can't provide a source for the quote, then it doesn't exist so far as we are concerned.

Kurtz
12-16-2009, 09:27 PM
I remember this, it was at the same signing where he gave strong hints that Loial was a Darkfriend.

I'll see if I can fish it out.

kivo
12-16-2009, 10:25 PM
I remember this, it was at the same signing where he gave strong hints that Loial was a Darkfriend.


WTF!11!!!1!11!???? NOOOOOOooooooooo....

I have a sneaking suspicion that Faile is a serial killer though. Masema is just her latest victim.

Yuri33
12-16-2009, 10:26 PM
Yeah, if you can't provide a source for the quote, then it doesn't exist so far as we are concerned.

Just like the fact that naughty things never happened unless there are pictures to prove it...

natural1dave
12-17-2009, 09:55 AM
I'm afraid you're gonna have to post some evidence for your pretty strong claim here, chief.

That is why I came here - I know this is where the experts hang!

I've always had a suspicion that RJ might not have been honest at all times. This stilling question is a perfect example (if it's true). If RJ gives the RAFO answer then that pretty much says stilling is healable and it's going to happen, which ruins the surprise and diminishes our reading experience.

If this is the case, I do forgive him for this, as I believe he would've done it in our best interest. But like I said, if this is the case maybe there are other questions that should be reconsidered.

For instance the question: "Is this turning of the wheel special or is it like the others" to which he responded it's not special (IIRC). If he had given a RAFO, well we would pretty much know it's not.

Bonzi77
12-17-2009, 10:09 AM
I've always assumed that RJ gave answers as if he were bound by the oath rod. He might mislead but he'd never speak a word that was untrue. So if he said healing stilling was not healable (I'm not convinced until I see a quote) it would depend on the wording of the quote. Because in some sense, something like cell phones were impossible at one time, but they exist now.

Same thing goes with the uniqueness of this turning of the wheel. This turning might not be unique, but that doesn't mean something that has always been possible, but hasn't happened yet, won't happen now.

One Armed Gimp
12-17-2009, 12:30 PM
For instance the question: "Is this turning of the wheel special or is it like the others" to which he responded it's not special (IIRC). If he had given a RAFO, well we would pretty much know it's not.

Or we some of us might think it is special.

I do not seem him deliberately lying. He just was not the type of guy to do that to his readers. I also don't see him changing his mind on something like that either, he is just to good and the series to well thought out in advance. He was good at leaving things open for possible use later on.

GonzoTheGreat
12-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Once again: all this speculation is based on a hypothetical quote.

I think that I have to congratulate you on that, N1D: this thread is even less based in reality than those that were based on misremembered quotes and scenes from the books. Quite impressive, though I don't think it is something you need to repeat.

Isabel
12-17-2009, 01:27 PM
That is why I came here - I know this is where the experts hang!

I've always had a suspicion that RJ might not have been honest at all times. This stilling question is a perfect example (if it's true). If RJ gives the RAFO answer then that pretty much says stilling is healable and it's going to happen, which ruins the surprise and diminishes our reading experience.

If this is the case, I do forgive him for this, as I believe he would've done it in our best interest. But like I said, if this is the case maybe there are other questions that should be reconsidered.

For instance the question: "Is this turning of the wheel special or is it like the others" to which he responded it's not special (IIRC). If he had given a RAFO, well we would pretty much know it's not.

That's bullshit. RJ has never lied to us. Yes, he has tried to evade questions. Or answer something that can drive you nuts :P :P RAFO means he could tell something about it, but that didn't mean it was going to happen.
RJ has never said that stilling can't be healed. I believe it was book 6 that Logain and Siuan were healed. So the only quotes he could have given was before that and there are no reliable quotes before that.
The only thing I can imagine is that someone interpreted something RJ said as that it couldn't be healed.

Kurtz
12-17-2009, 01:38 PM
Depends how the question was phrased also. Within the books, Stilling could not be Healed at that stage, so he may have given a somewhat mischievous answer.

Terez
12-17-2009, 03:06 PM
Better yet Dave, you should direct us to the place where the person told you this so that we can pay them a visit. ;)

Terez
12-17-2009, 03:24 PM
Also, I will say again, Lord of Chaos was released in 1994. The internet was practically not known then, so I will be interested to hear how it was that RJ could have said this 'repeatedly' before then, and how anyone would know of it. All indications are that he did not even have a successful book tour at all before then, and very few interviews, and a few letters to fans (because this was back in the day when he actually still replied to fan snailmail).

Davian93
12-17-2009, 03:25 PM
Better yet Dave, you should direct us to the place where the person told you this so that we can pay them a visit. ;)

~cracks knuckles, grabs hardcopy BWB~

Let's do this!

natural1dave
12-17-2009, 05:11 PM
Better yet Dave, you should direct us to the place where the person told you this so that we can pay them a visit. ;)

http://www.wotmud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=3782

it's about the 14th or 15th post down by Guhadin.

also, was Kurtz being sarcastic or did he/she really remember something?

Terez
12-17-2009, 05:17 PM
Kurtz is almost always sarcastic.

Terez
12-17-2009, 05:21 PM
http://www.wotmud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=3782

it's about the 14th or 15th post down by Guhadin.
I'll quote it:

He's going to die. Then he's going to be brought back to life. Mostly because RJ repeated so often how no one can be brought back from death. Just like he repeated so often that no one who was stilled could ever channel again.
He's talking about in the books. RJ did write them, you know...

I assure you that RJ never said this on the record.

Also...the book knowledge of some of these people is atrocious...

Ieyasu
12-17-2009, 06:03 PM
I read it.

This is not a RJ quote... this is a paraphrase of a random poster saying that RJ's books have stated repeatedly that neither stilling nor death is heal-able. Which is true, many characters have, in fact, stated this many times, but that does not make it true statement at all. As we know, just because a character believes something is true does not make it true in practice. Because stilling has been healed later on in the series, that does throw some doubt on just what is impossible and what is unknown possibilities in regards to healing death, burning out, etc...

As far as Loial potentially being a darkfriend, I vaguely remember a interview quote something along the lines that Ogier dont become darkfriends, but I am completely unsure as to the accuracy of that statement. I would be surprised to see a Ogier darkfriend, and grossly shocked to find out Loial was one. Check Terez signature link and go through all the accepted interview quotes to see if you can find it.

EDIT: disregard my ogier comments as the Loial thing was sarcasm... yeah doesnt translate very well in text form...

EDIT2: now I am curious what I'm vaguely remembering about Ogier turning to the shadow... I skimmed terez databases and didnt see anything like what I was remembering anyway... does anyone else remember hearing such or should I just pack another bong load?

Daekyras
12-17-2009, 06:10 PM
I remember this, it was at the same signing where he gave strong hints that Loial was a Darkfriend.

I'll see if I can fish it out.

Ha, yes. I think i remember this one too. I believe he also said that the stone of tear would never fall and that padain fain was just a regular darkfriend....:rolleyes:

natural1dave
12-17-2009, 06:20 PM
I'll quote it:


He's talking about in the books. RJ did write them, you know...

I assure you that RJ never said this on the record.

Also...the book knowledge of some of these people is atrocious...


Damn, I apologize! I read it quickly and thought he was talking about a quote...and yes Terez, I concur, those forums are pretty bad. It's a MUD forum, though, so I'm not surprised!

Bryan Blaire
12-17-2009, 06:51 PM
However, RJ DID write the Aes Sedai, so if there was ever a person very well versed in splitting hairs with the truth, it is him.

Several questions that were directly asked of him that were answered in a direct manner have been shown that he was answering in this manner or answering from a certain point of view.

Terez
12-17-2009, 09:23 PM
I am curious what I'm vaguely remembering about Ogier turning to the shadow... I skimmed terez databases and didnt see anything like what I was remembering anyway... does anyone else remember hearing such or should I just pack another bong load?
Both. Did you look in the Ogier category?

Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002 (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Wotmania_and_Dragonmount_Q%26A_December_9%2C_2002)

Q: Why can't Ogier channel the One Power? RJ: Why can't fish sing? Why can't sparrows do the tango? Why can't I figure my own income tax? I'd really like to know the answer to that last one!
Q: Can they be Darkfriends?
RJ: Of course.

Ieyasu
12-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Both. Did you look in the Ogier category?

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Yes, and I read that quote, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what I was recalling... hence why I said I didn't notice anything at all like what I was remembering.

Guess I am just misremembering :)

4Alethinos
12-24-2009, 02:07 AM
One of the questions asked of Brian in San Jose, CA was could a burnout be healed. His answer was that stilling could be healed and therefore it could be possible that even a burnout could be healed by the right amount of power and the correct weave. You can check with Jason Wolfbrother for a more accurate remembrance of that answer.

RJ has made it gospel about this series that the lack of correct information or just the lack of information period is something he explores in great detail. That quote about stilling was a clear example of what he was demonstrating.


"HUh? Duh!"