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Marie Curie 7
12-20-2009, 05:56 PM
I thought it might be interesting to make a compilation of all the prophecies, viewings, foretellings, etc., that were fulfilled in The Gathering Storm. Since we're coming up on the end of the series, there are a lot of prophecies and stuff that obviously need to be fulfilled at some point, and there were quite a few fulfilled in TGS, with more to come in ToM and AMoL.

So first, I've listed all the prophecies, etc., that have appeared in previous books and were fulfilled in TGS - most of these we've already discussed, so this section is kinda boring, but I've included all of them for completeness. Next, I've included the prophecies, etc., for which it's questionable whether or not they've been fulfilled, or perhaps they've only been partially fulfilled. And finally, I've listed all the new prophecies, etc., that appeared in TGS, whether or not they've been fulfilled.

If I've missed any, please post with additions, or with quibbles about fulfilled/unfulfilled ones... :)



-- Prophecies/viewings/foretellings appearing in previous books and fulfilled in TGS --

1) Rand and the beggar's staff

These visions were confirmed by Brandon to have been fulfilled by Rand's wanderings through Ebou Dar in TGS Ch. 49. It corresponds to a viewing by Min and a vision in the wolfdream by Perrin:

TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 15 - Strangers and Friends

Her grin stopped just short of outright laughter. "The same kind of things as the rest. A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and a white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood --"

TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 53 - The Price of a Departure

As he scanned for the birds, a patch of sky darkened, became a window to somewhere else. Egwene stood among a crowd of women, fear in her eyes; slowly the women knelt around her. Nynaeve was one of them, and he believed he saw Elayne's red-gold hair. That window faded and was replaced. Mat stood naked and bound, snarling; an odd spear with a black shaft had been thrust across his back behind his elbows, and a silver medallion, a foxhead, hung on his chest. Mat vanished, and it was Rand. Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes. The third window disappeared; the sky was only sky, empty except for the clouds.


2) Sheriam's rays of silver and blue

Sheriam got her head chopped off in Ch. 45 of TGS after it was revealed that she was Black Ajah. This appears to fulfill Min's viewing of her:

TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 26 - Sallie Daera

Sheriam's tilted green eyes fixed immediately on Min's face. Rays of silver and blue flashed about her fiery hair, and a soft golden light; Min could not say what it meant. Slightly plump in her dark blue silk, at the moment she was sternness itself. "I would be happier to see you, child, if I knew how you discovered our presence here, and if I had some inkling of why you conceived the crack-brained idea of bringing him." Half a dozen Warders had drifted near, hands resting on swords, eyes sharp on Logain; he did not seem to see them at all.


3) Masema's death

The Aiel dreamwalkers saw that Masema had to be killed. This was obviously fulfilled by Faile in the TGS Prologue.

TITLE: Path of Daggers
CHAPTER: 9 - Tangles

"Now that you are here," Edarra said as soon as the tentflap dropped behind the gai'shain, "we will explain again why you must kill the man called Masema Dagar."

"We should not have to explain again," Delora put in. Her hair and eyes were nearly the same shade as Maighdin's, but no one would call her pinched face pretty. Her manner was pure ice. "This Masema Dagar is a danger to the Car'a'carn. He must die."

"The dreamwalkers have told us, Perrin Aybara." Carelle certainly was pretty, and though her fiery hair and piercing eyes made her look as though she had a temper, she was always mild. For a Wise One. And certainly not soft. "They have read the dream. The man must die."


4) The Seanchan attack

The Seanchan attacked the White Tower in TGS Ch. 40. This was Dreamed about by Egwene, of course, and Brandon confirmed that it was fulfilled in TGS.

TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight
CHAPTER: 20 - In the Night

She was climbing another path along a cliff shrouded in clouds, but this was a broad ledge of smoothly paved white stone, and there were no rocks underfoot. The cliff itself was chalky white and as smooth as if polished. Despite the clouds, the pale stone almost gleamed. She climbed quickly and soon realized that the ledge was spiraling around. The cliff was actually a spire. No sooner did that thought occur than she was standing on the top of it, a flat polished disc walled by mist. Not quite flat, though. A small white plinth stood centered in that circle, supporting an oil-lamp made of clear glass. The flame on that lamp burned bright and steady, without flickering. It was white, too.

Suddenly a pair of birds flashed out of the mist, two ravens black as night. Streaking across the spire-top, they struck the lamp and flew on without so much as a pause. The lamp spun and wobbled, dancing around atop the plinth, flinging off droplets of oil. Some of those drops caught fire in midair and vanished. Others fell around the short column, each supporting a tiny, flickering white flame. And the lamp continued to wobble on the edge of falling.


5) Siuan and Gareth

Min had a viewing that Siuan and Gareth had to stay together or they would die. This was fulfilled in TGS Ch. 41, when Bryne saved Siuan from the Bloodknife and then Siuan saved him from the poison pin.

TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 28 - Trapped

"If you want to stay alive, you had better stay close to him." Despite the heat, Min shivered. She had only ever had one other viewing with an "if" in it, and both had been potentially deadly. It was bad enough sometimes knowing what would happen; if she started knowing what might... "All I know is this. If he stays close to you, you live. If he gets too far away, for too long, you are going to die. Both of you. I don't know why I should have seen anything about you in his aura, but you seemed like part of it."



-- Prophecies/viewings/foretellings appearing in previous books and partially fulfilled (or questionable) in TGS --

Okay, so there are some prophecies etc. that have been partially fulfilled in TGS, and there are others that are question marks.

1) White Tower will be whole

This Foretelling of Elaida's seems to have been at least partially fulfilled by TGS:

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: Prologue - Lightnings

Elaida clenched her fist as though she held all the rebels by the throat. Or Alviarin. "I mean to break them, daughter. They will split open like a rotten melon." Her secret assured that, however many farmers and tailors Lord Bryne hung on to, but let the other woman think as she would. Suddenly the Foretelling took hold of her, a certainty about things she could not see stronger than if they had been laid out before her. She would have been willing to step blindly over a cliff on that certainty. "The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This I Foretell."

The portion of the Foretelling about the White Tower being whole again is well on its way to fulfillment as a result of Egwene uniting the Tower behind one Amyrlin. The remnants cast out and scorned are probably the Black Ajah. The parts of the Foretelling that are not yet fulfilled are of course the bit about Rand knowing the Amyrlin's anger and the part about the Black Tower being rent in fire and blood.


2) Dragon Reborn is one with the land

The Fisher theme of the Dragon Reborn being one with the land was certainly highlighted in TGS. This sentiment appears as part of the Karaethon Cycle:

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: Prologue - Header

There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love.

- From a much-disputed translation of The Prophecies of the Dragon by the poet Kyera Termendal, of Shiota, believed to have been published between FY 700 and FY 800.

Rand's link to the land is a continuing thing, though, so I've only listed this as partially fulfilled in TGS.


3) Storms on the horizon

The theme of storms on the horizon, especially to the north, was prevalent in TGS as well:

TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: Epigraph

With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.

- fragment from The Prophecies of the Dragon believed translated by N'Delia Basolaine First Maid and Swordfast to Raidhen of Hol Cuchone (circa 400 AB)

I'm sure there is more to come related to the storms...


4) Laughter and tears

Min had a viewing that Cadsuane would teach Rand and all the Asha'man something:

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 41 - A Crown of Swords

Min sat back on her heels, folded her arms beneath her breasts and gave him a firm look. After a moment, she decided it was not working and sighed. "It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

So Brandon has confirmed that the viewing has been partially fulfilled:

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Mysterious Galaxy, San Diego 15 November 2009 - Freelancer reporting

Q. Has Cadsuane met Min's vision regarding the lesson she must teach Rand and the Asha'man, which they won't like one bit?

A. Part of it.

This probably has been fulfilled in part by Rand's epiphany on the slopes of Dragonmount in Ch. 50 of TGS, where he remembered laughter, at least, if not tears (since those are what Cadsuane and Sorilea vowed to teach Rand). The attribution of this to Cadsuane seems a bit more indirect than "teaching" somebody something usually is, but one could make the case that Cadsuane's actions were at least indirectly responsible for Rand ending up on Dragonmount.

The remembering of 'laughter and tears' is also related to a piece of the Karaethon Cycle quoted previously:

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: Prologue - Header

There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love.

- From a much-disputed translation of The Prophecies of the Dragon by the poet Kyera Termendal, of Shiota, believed to have been published between FY 700 and FY 800.

Here, it's remembrance of 'love and tears' - and Rand not only remembered laughter on Dragonmount, he also remembered love...


5) Someone saving Egwene

When Gawyn "rescued" Egwene in the White Tower during the Seanchan attack, did that fulfill the Dream of Egwene being saved from the headsman's axe?

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 10 - Unseen Eyes

Straps at waist and shoulder held her tightly to the block, and the headsman's axe descended, but she knew that somewhere someone was running, and if they ran fast enough, the axe would stop. If not... In that corner of her mind, she felt a chill.

While an argument could be made that Gawyn's rescue of Egwene satisfied this Dream, it seems to me rather unsatisfactory to count it as such, particularly since Egwene did not want to be rescued.


6) Gawyn

At least some of the viewings/dreams related to Gawyn have probably been fulfilled. The ones that possibly are fulfilled seem to have to do with him finally making a choice to be with Egwene rather than serving Elaida and the Tower Aes Sedai.

These are the dreams/viewings related to Gawyn that show two possible paths for him:

TITLE: Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 47 - The Truth of a Viewing

She glanced over her shoulder toward the Tower, the thick white shaft dominating the city, whole and straight, yet broken as surely as if it lay in ruins. For a moment she let herself think of the images she had glimpsed, just for a moment, flickering around Gawyn's head. Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future.

The things she saw were very rarely as clear in meaning as those two, and she had never before seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future. Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities.

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 10 - Unseen Eyes

In the way of dreams she floated above a long, straight road across a grassy plain, looking down upon a man riding a black stallion. Gawyn. Then she was standing in the road in front of him, and he reined in. Not because he saw her, this time, but the road that had been straight now forked right where she stood, running over tall hills so no one could see what lay beyond. She knew, though. Down one fork was his violent death, down the other, a long life and a death in bed. On one path, he would marry her, on the other, not. She knew what lay ahead, but not which way led to which. Suddenly he did see her, or seemed to, and smiled, and turned his horse along one of the forks... And she was in another dream. And another. Another. And again.

TITLE: Lord of Chaos
CHAPTER: 15 - A Pile of Sand

Given everything, it was no surprise that Gawyn filled her dreams. Sometimes she repeated one of his, though not exactly, of course; in her versions, certain embarrassing events just did not occur, or at least were glossed over. Gawyn spent a good deal more time reciting poetry, and holding her while they watched sunrises and sunsets. He did not stumble over saying he loved her, either. And he looked as handsome as he really was. Others were all her own. Tender kisses that lasted forever. Him kneeling while she cupped his head in her hands. Some made no sense. Twice, right atop one another, she dreamed of taking him by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time, she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily. In another he began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.

Has this next one been fulfilled? It could have been fulfilled if it refers to the mental anguish that Gawyn went through before he finally decided to go to Egwene, and the time he spent fighting with the Younglings and serving the Tower before he made it to her:

TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 10 - Unseen Eyes

She stood in a vast, dim chamber where everything was indistinct. Everything except Gawyn, slowly coming toward her. A tall, beautiful man - had she ever thought his half-brother Galad was more beautiful? - with golden hair and eyes of the most wonderful deep blue. He had some distance to cover yet, but he could see her; his gaze was fixed on her like an archer's on the target. A faint sound of crunching and grating hung in the air. She looked down. And felt a scream building in her. On bare feet, Gawyn walked across a floor of broken glass, shards breaking at every slow step. Even in that faint light she could see the trail of blood left by his slashed feet. She flung out a hand, tried to shout for him to stop, tried to run to him, but just that quickly she was elsewhere.

Finally, what about this one?

TITLE: Lord of Chaos
CHAPTER: 15 - A Pile of Sand

Given everything, it was no surprise that Gawyn filled her dreams. Sometimes she repeated one of his, though not exactly, of course; in her versions, certain embarrassing events just did not occur, or at least were glossed over. Gawyn spent a good deal more time reciting poetry, and holding her while they watched sunrises and sunsets. He did not stumble over saying he loved her, either. And he looked as handsome as he really was. Others were all her own. Tender kisses that lasted forever. Him kneeling while she cupped his head in her hands. Some made no sense. Twice, right atop one another, she dreamed of taking him by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time, she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily. In another he began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.

One could argue, I suppose, that this also deals with Gawyn rescuing Egwene in the Tower during the Seanchan attack. However, in the Dream, it is Gawyn closing a door on Egwene that leads to her death in some way, not the Seanchan or Elaida, so I would consider this one still unfulfilled.



-- New Prophecies/Viewings from TGS --

Min's viewings

Min had a number of viewings in TGS: one has been fulfilled, the others have not.

1) Miscellaneous viewings of Rand

Most of the images in the viewing given in the quote below are similar to viewings Min has had before - the fireflies, for example. The three women before a (funeral?) pyre seems like it's probably related to previous foretellings/dreams of a funeral pyre and the one of the three women on a boat (e.g., Nicola's lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond).

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 15 - A Place to Begin

"Faith in you, sheepherder." Suddenly viewings spun around his head. She ignored them most of the time, unless they were new, but now she picked them out. Fireflies consumed in darkness. Three women before a pyre. Flashes of light, darkness, shadow, signs of death, crowns, injuries, pain and hope. A tempest around Rand al'Thor, stronger than any physical storm.


2) Dragonmount

This one about Dragonmount seems to have been fulfilled in TGS Ch. 50:

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 37 - A Force of Light

The air shimmered above Rand, and a mountain appeared there. Viewings were so common around Rand that Min usually forced herself to ignore them unless they were new - though she did spend time some days trying to pick them all out and sort through them. This one was new, and it caught her attention. The towering mountain was blasted out on one side, making a jagged hole down the slope. Dragonmount? It was cloaked in dark shadows, as if shaded by clouds high above. That was odd; whenever she'd seen the mountain, it had reached higher than the clouds themselves. Dragonmount in shadows. It would be important to Rand in the future. Was that a tiny prick of light shining from the heavens down onto the point of the mountain?


3) Nynaeve

This viewing of Nynaeve is not fulfilled. Is it Lan? If so, how does that mesh with the previous viewing of him in which Min saw Seven Towers and baby? Or is it Rand? Or someone else?

TITLE: Gathering Storm
Ch. 48 - Reading the Commentary

And . . . what was that vision that was suddenly hovering above Nynaeve's head? She was kneeling over someone's corpse in a posture of grief. The viewing was gone a moment later.


4) Beldeine

This viewing of Beldeine also is not fulfilled:

TITLE: Gathering Storm
Ch. 48 - Reading the Commentary

Min shook her head. That hadn't been a viewing she could interpret, so she let it pass. She couldn't waste her time trying to unravel all of those. For instance, the black knife that spun around Beldeine's head recently could mean anything.


Seanchan prophecy

1) From the epilogue, we have a new prophecy from the Essanik Cycle:

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: Epilogue

At the end of time,
when the many become one,
the last storm shall gather its angry winds
to destroy a land already dying.
And at its center,
the blind man shall stand
upon his own grave.
There he shall see again,
and weep for what has been wrought.

- from The Prophecies of the Dragon, Essanik Cycle. Malhavish's Official Translation, Imperial Record House of Seandar, Fourth Circle of Elevation.

This is the prophecy referred to by Tuon in TGS Ch. 35:

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 35 - A Halo of Blackness

The Last Battle would be between the Empire and the forces of the Dark One. Everybody knew that. The prophecies clearly showed that the Empress would defeat those who served the Shadow, and then she would send the Dragon Reborn in to duel with Lighteater. How much had he fulfilled? He didn't seem blinded yet, so that had yet to happen. The Essanik Cycle said that he would stand on his own grave and weep. Or did that prophecy refer to the dead walking, as they did already? Certainly, some of those spirits had walked across their own graves. The writings were unclear, sometimes.

The bolded part presumably has been fulfilled in TGS Ch. 50 by Rand's scene on Dragonmount. But the bit about the Empress sending the Dragon Reborn to battle the Dark One hasn't been fulfilled yet, of course. :)

The prophecy from the Essanik Cycle also mentions the storms that I noted previously, as well as the angry winds (perhaps like those observed in Ch. 1 of TGS).


Karaethon cycle

1) We have a new bit of the Karaethon cycle in TGS:

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 48 - Reading the Commentary

With that thought in mind, Min leaned back on her cushioned bench and reopened her current book, a work by Sajius that was simply titled Commentary on the Dragon. One line in it teased at her, a sentence mostly ignored by those who had written commentary. He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one.

This one obviously hasn't been fulfilled yet.

Frenzy
12-20-2009, 10:37 PM
At first i thought Beldiene's viewing referred to the Bloodknives. But Beldiene is with Rand's Aes Sedai, iirc. Anything short and stabby in that group's obvious future?

Yuri33
12-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Anything short and stabby in that group's obvious future?

The only thing short and stabby is Min herself :)

Marie Curie 7
12-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Okay, so I came across another viewing that might have been fulfilled in TGS:

TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 15 - Strangers and Friends

Her grin stopped just short of outright laughter. "The same kind of things as the rest. A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and a white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood -"

My suggestion regarding the viewing is that Rand's hand got blown off in KoD and then he used balefire on Semirhage in TGS to fulfill the viewing.

Now, the WoTFAQ suggests that this viewing might already have been fulfilled by Rand using balefire on Liah. The bloody hand comes into that because he got a self-inflicted wound in his hand when they were searching for Liah in Shadar Logoth:

TITLE: Lord of Chaos
CHAPTER: 21 - To Shadar Logoth

As the last of the Aiel went through, Sulin hissed, and he glanced at her, but she was looking at his hand. At the back of his hand, where his fingernails had sliced a gash that oozed blood. Wrapped in the Void as he was, the pain might have belonged to someone else. The physical mark did not matter; it would heal. He had made deeper inside, where no one could see. One for each Maiden who died, and he never let them heal.

And then of course Rand balefired Liah in ACoS when he encountered her in Shadar Logoth during his fight with Sammael.

So, any thoughts about this one?

GonzoTheGreat
12-28-2009, 05:01 PM
I thought that the bloody hand and white hot iron was when Semirhage melted the Dragon Sceptre together with his hand, thus destroying both.

Marie Curie 7
12-28-2009, 08:30 PM
I thought that the bloody hand and white hot iron was when Semirhage melted the Dragon Sceptre together with his hand, thus destroying both.

The Dragon Scepter didn't melt, though. The spear portion was left intact. It was only the wooden handle that was burned away:

TITLE: Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 27 - A Plain Wooden Box

He reached for the Source and found Lews Therin clawing for it, too, each of them jostling the other aside from reaching it. Semirhage flicked her hand, and a small ball of fire streaked toward him from her fingertips. She might have shouted something, an order. He could not leap aside: Min stood right behind him. Frantically trying to seize saidin. he flung up the hand holding the Dragon Scepter in desperation. The world seemed to explode in fire.

His cheek was pressed against the damp ground, he realized. Black flecks shimmered in his vision, and everything seemed faintly hazy, as if seen through water. Where was he? What had happened? His head felt stuffed with wool. Something was prodding him in the ribs. His sword hilt. The old wounds were a hard knot of pain just above that. Slowly, he realized he was looking at the Dragon Scepter, or what was left of it. The spearpoint and a few inches of charred haft lay three paces away. Small, dancing flames were consuming the long tassel. The Crown of Swords lay beyond it.

So I don't really see how the partial destruction of the Dragon Scepter is related to the white-hot iron of Min's vision. On the other hand, balefire is sometimes referred to as a white-hot bar of light, like white-hot iron or steel:

TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 9 - Wolf Dreams

Closer, he thought. Come closer. No warning for your master this time. Closer. That's it. The dog was only ten paces away, now, a deep growl rumbling in its chest as it suddenly bounded forward. Straight at Rand. The Power filled him. Something leaped from his outstretched hands; he was not sure what it was. A bar of white light, solid as steel. Liquid fire. For an instant, in the middle of that something, the dog seemed to become transparent, and then it was gone.

TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 36 - Daughter of the Night

The circle of Myrddraal and people came closer to Rand, all walking as if asleep. And Rand began to kill them. Balls of fire flew from his hands and consumed two. Lightning flashed from above to shrivel others. Bars of light like white-hot steel flew from his fists to more. And the survivors continued to walk slowly closer, as if none of them saw what was happening. One by one they died, until none were left, and Rand sank down on his knees, panting. Perrin was not sure whether he was laughing or crying; it seemed to be some of each.

So it seems to me that the white-hot iron in Min's vision most likely refers to balefire...

Daekyras
12-28-2009, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by RJ
TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 15 - Strangers and Friends

Her grin stopped just short of outright laughter. "The same kind of things as the rest. A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and a white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood -"


Has rand poured water on sand yet?

I kinda always read that as a series of events that would happen in that order...

Marie Curie 7
12-28-2009, 11:14 PM
Has rand poured water on sand yet?

I kinda always read that as a series of events that would happen in that order...

Yup. He made it rain in the Waste.

Daekyras
12-28-2009, 11:21 PM
Yup. He made it rain in the Waste.

HA HA:)
I'm actually reading that right now! Seriously, that very chapter LOL:o

there goes my order idea too!

Terez
12-29-2009, 12:12 AM
He also made the Sea of Rhuidean.

Marie Curie 7
12-29-2009, 01:56 PM
He also made the Sea of Rhuidean.

True. I suppose either thing could be said to fulfill the viewing. I guess I usually associate it with Rand making it rain because 'pouring water on sand' seems to me to be more like rain pouring down from the sky.

But the name ought to be Lake Rhuidean, don't you think? :)


Anyway, I was hoping you all would point out prophecies that I missed that were fulfilled in TGS or new ones that appeared in TGS. And in my original post I failed to include the 'three must be as one' prophecy, which is new in TGS...so I am adding it to the original post.

Bane Darkwulf
12-29-2009, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by RJ/BS
TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: Epilogue

At the end of time,
when the many become one,
the last storm shall gather its angry winds
to destroy a land already dying.
And at its center,
the blind man shall stand
upon his own grave.
There he shall see again,
and weep for what has been wrought.

- from The Prophecies of the Dragon, Essanik Cycle. Malhavish's Official Translation, Imperial Record House of Seandar, Fourth Circle of Elevation.

The blindness in this prophecy does NOT refer to Rand's eyesight, but to his mental state. If you read it correctly, Rand had to be blind before he went to Dragonmount. If you think that requires loss of actual vision, you would be mistaken. He was blind to the fact of why he needed to fight. Not because it was prophesied, but for those he cares about or loves. How can you protect something if you don't love it?

Marie Curie 7
12-31-2009, 01:48 AM
The blindness in this prophecy does NOT refer to Rand's eyesight, but to his mental state. If you read it correctly, Rand had to be blind before he went to Dragonmount. If you think that requires loss of actual vision, you would be mistaken. He was blind to the fact of why he needed to fight. Not because it was prophesied, but for those he cares about or loves. How can you protect something if you don't love it?

Are you referring to Tuon's interpretation of the prophecy? If so, then yeah, we all know how good the characters can sometimes be at interpreting prophecy...

And otherwise, it's pretty clear from Ch. 50 what that part of the prophecy is all about...

metaphor
01-03-2010, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by RJ/BS
TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: Epilogue

At the end of time,
when the many become one,
the last storm shall gather its angry winds
to destroy a land already dying.
And at its center,
the blind man shall stand
upon his own grave.
There he shall see again,
and weep for what has been wrought.

- from The Prophecies of the Dragon, Essanik Cycle. Malhavish's Official Translation, Imperial Record House of Seandar, Fourth Circle of Elevation.

I wonder about the meaning of this part
At the end of time,
when the many become one,

It curiously reminds me of
the three shall be one

Kimon
01-03-2010, 08:33 PM
perhaps, though the seanchan at least are more likely to interpret this as, or at least use these two lines as justification for, their reunification of the many kingdoms of randland back into one kingdom, the seanchan empire. so not necessarily a reference to the three becoming one, unless of course the three refer to something completely unrelated to what we have been thinking- say perhaps to a reference to the three powers united in alliance against the shadow- the dragon (and all his forces), the seanchan, and the aes sedai.

Marie Curie 7
01-03-2010, 11:30 PM
I wonder about the meaning of this part
At the end of time,
when the many become one,

It curiously reminds me of
the three shall be one

Well, I would say that generally "three" does not equal "many", so though the wording is similar I don't think there's a strong connection. It seems to me that "the many become one" bit more likely refers to what occurred on Dragonmount just like the rest of that prophecy seems to refer to Rand standing on his own grave and "seeing again":

TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 50 - Veins of Gold

That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his mind's eye, lit by the glow in his hand. He remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope.

jason wolfbrother
01-04-2010, 12:40 AM
I think Marie's interpretation makes more sense with the "many become one" being Rand remembering the countless previous lives. Three just isn't enough to qualify as "many" to me.

Terez
01-04-2010, 01:35 AM
The nations becoming one would make sense too if it had actually happened at that moment - we've still got some drama to go before the truce, and Rand hasn't even managed his side of the unification yet, seeing as how the Borderlanders are hanging out in Far Madding, and Roedran hasn't been reined in yet. So, the reintegration makes more sense.

Terez
01-04-2010, 01:40 AM
At first i thought Beldeine's viewing referred to the Bloodknives. But Beldeine is with Rand's Aes Sedai, iirc. Anything short and stabby in that group's obvious future?
It was a black knife. That's probably significant. Shadow-wrought steel? And why spinning around her head? That one might fall in the category of unfulfilled viewings when the series ends. The prophecies are sure to all be fulfilled, but Min's viewings often have to do with things after the Last Battle. Some of them will obviously be fulfilled, but others, not so much.

dominominic
01-10-2010, 03:54 PM
Why "at the end of time" though?

Everything else fits, but this?

Considering the cyclical nature of the Wheel it's unlikely to be the end of time, unless the writer believed the DO would win the Last Battle?

Did I read somewhere that Ishamael might have tampered with the Essanik Cycle?

Weird Harold
01-10-2010, 04:28 PM
Did I read somewhere that Ishamael might have tampered with the Essanik Cycle?

No.

The Seanchan version of the Karetheon Cycle is corrupted (they think the Randland version is the one that is corrupt) and Ishamael is believed to be the source of that corruption through Luthair Pendragon's "pure copy."

The Essanik Cycle is a different collection of Prophecies that are purely Seanchan in origin. There is no Randland version of the Essanik Cycle to be considered corrupt.

Marie Curie 7
01-10-2010, 05:02 PM
Why "at the end of time" though?

Everything else fits, but this?

Considering the cyclical nature of the Wheel it's unlikely to be the end of time, unless the writer believed the DO would win the Last Battle?

I'd say that it's probably just meant to refer to the end of the Age. After all, if the Wheel keeps spinning, it's not really the 'Last Battle', either.

dominominic
01-10-2010, 05:17 PM
Well the term "Last Battle" could justifiably refer to the last battle of an Age, whereas the "end of time" is the end of time.

Especially considering the emphasis put on the Wheel's nonstop nature.

At least that's how I look at it!

dominominic
01-10-2010, 05:21 PM
There is no Randland version of the Essanik Cycle to be considered corrupt.

Granted, but Brandon hasn't ruled out that the Essanik Cycle itself may have been tampered with.

Weird Harold
01-11-2010, 01:53 AM
Granted, but Brandon hasn't ruled out that the Essanik Cycle itself may have been tampered with.
Tampered with how?

There is nothing to compare it to for accuracy of transcription.

We have no indication of who or how the EssanikCycle was generated. We do have some small hints of who, when and how the Karethon cycle and Aiel Prophecies were generated thanks to Rand's trip through the Glass Columns.

We also know that the Karetheon Cycle,Aiel Prophecy, and Jendai Prophecy (of the seafolk) are accurate insofar as we know them mostly by the passages that have been fulfilled by Rand, Mat, and Perrin.

The evidence of deliberate tampering that we know of is Ishamael's boast of a "doom and a doom yet to come" in reference to his role in sending Luthair Paendraag to conquer (what would become) Seanchan. The source of the corruption in the Seanchan version of the Karetheon Cycle is attributed to the "pure copy" brought with Luthair.

Other than that specific instance, I see no particular reason to believe any collection of Prophecy is corrupt, erroneous, or has been deliberately tampered with. Even there, the amount of tampering/corruption is apparently limited to only a few passages.

nategator
01-11-2010, 05:14 AM
Excellent beginning post. Deserves a sticky imho.

Anyone got a quote of the "doom, and doom to come" handy since I am too lazy to look it up right now?

GonzoTheGreat
01-11-2010, 05:19 AM
Doomedy doomedy doom.*
I whispered in Artur Hawkwing's ear, and the length and breadth of the land Aes Sedai died. I whispered again, and the High King sent his armies across the Aryth Ocean, across the World Sea, and sealed two dooms. The doom of his dream of one land and one people, and a doom yet to come.

* Added because the board requires some text apart from a quote.

dominominic
01-11-2010, 02:27 PM
We have no indication of who or how the EssanikCycle was generated.

Not quite true, if Brandon is to be believed:

If the Outriggers ever get written there will be more information about what the Essanik cycle is. It is had only in Seanchan. It was given by damane in Seanchan

This, to me, would imply a Foretelling.

But the wording still rankles with me.

Terez
01-11-2010, 02:45 PM
It's probably a safe bet that all of the prophecies are Foretellings (at least, insofar as they have not been corrupted). Perhaps some could be relations of dreams, but they don't read like it.

dominominic
01-11-2010, 03:15 PM
They really don't. But this one, to me, reads oddly too:

At the end of time,
when the many become one

It will only be the end of time if the DO wins, otherwise we have been told time and time again that the Wheel keeps on turning. Even in other lines of prophecy:

Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end(my emphasis)

I find it hard to grant a prophecy poetic license.

There he shall see again,
and weep for what has been wrought

He hasn't wept yet(quite the opposite) but that may be yet to come.

It seems to me this prophecy reads more like someone predicting the future had events on Dragonmount at the end of TGS turned out in a more Shadow-friendly way than what actually happened, although I admit this is just a hunch!

metaphor
01-11-2010, 05:43 PM
He hasn't wept yet(quite the opposite) but that may be yet to come.

It seems to me this prophecy reads more like someone predicting the future had events on Dragonmount at the end of TGS turned out in a more Shadow-friendly way than what actually happened, although I admit this is just a hunch!

I had the same thought. Rand's crying may be a corrupted part.

In the story after opening his eyes he saw that there was still hope, and reason to go on, thus he laughed, while in the prophecy after opening his eyes he wept for what had been wrought, which seems to hint to a loss of hope, to a descent into depression that could lead him to the same nihilism of Moridin and wish to just end it.

He may still weep afterward, surely there are enough reasons for it, but the relevant passage is what he does right after opening his eyes, if he realizes that there is still hope or if he realizes that all hope is lost.

Weird Harold
01-11-2010, 11:41 PM
Not quite true, if Brandon is to be believed:


If the Outriggers ever get written there will be more information about what the Essanik cycle is. It is had only in Seanchan. It was given by damane in Seanchan

This, to me, would imply a Foretelling.

But the wording still rankles with me.


The Seanchan believe ALL damane can foretell the future. We don't know that the damanr who 'gave it' had the talent of Foretelling or jusr came up with somethingbecuase they were commanded to tell the future.

Tuon's damane Lydia clearly does have the Talent and her foretelling of Tuon's marriage to Mat has raised some past discussions on whether Foretelling can be trained to come on demand instead of waiting for random bursts like Nicola and Elaida do.

Knowing that the Essanik Cycle was "given by damane" tells us nothing we couldn't have guessed -- Foretelling is a talent linked to Channeling, so it had to come from Damane if the Talent of Foretelling was involved.

dominominic
01-12-2010, 09:19 AM
What I'm getting at is that, if you accept the prophecy being quoted has its origins in a damane's Foretelling, it reads oddly.

Foretellings are, as far as we can tell, accurate descriptions of events yet to happen. Not "nearly accurate" like this one.

It's not the end of time, and Rand hasn't wept yet.

He might in the next book but I would find that clumsy and disjointed.

Terez
01-12-2010, 09:36 AM
I figure it's just hyperbole referring to the end of the Age. He didn't exactly weep, but he did confront his grief finally.

metaphor
01-12-2010, 01:25 PM
The end of time is what happens when the Dark One breaks free and destroys the Wheel of Time. (I think in siomme passage it's even called that way). It's what Moridin wants.
It fits with the idea of the prophecy being corrupted by Ishamael. Actually it reads just like a Dark Prophecy.
The Dragon open his eyes and cries because he's lost all hope, thus the liberation of the DO is inevitable, and with it the end of Time.



I imagine that's what would have happened if he had not managed to stop himself in time and had killed Tam.

dominominic
01-12-2010, 02:15 PM
I figure it's just hyperbole

Yeah, it's not like there haven't been overstatements in Foretellings before:

He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder!

I doubt this is meant literally, but it certainly makes its point clear.

But when it's anything to do with time - in this series - I look at it very carefully!

Brita
01-12-2010, 11:16 PM
I figure it's just hyperbole referring to the end of the Age. He didn't exactly weep, but he did confront his grief finally.

You know, reading this thread about Rand finally getting a grip, I am sooooo excited to see him lose his crippling angst and be completely awesome in the next two books. I better not be disappointed.

GonzoTheGreat
01-13-2010, 03:45 AM
I doubt this is meant literally, but it certainly makes its point clear.Interesting. Did Gitara drop dead because she'd just violated the Oaths?

dominominic
01-13-2010, 05:02 AM
Interesting. Did Gitara drop dead because she'd just violated the Oaths?

Hard to say. Looking at the list of Foretellings on the encyclopaedia WoT website, they don't usually come in poetic or figurative language.

They're usually quite sparse and literal, although maybe that's just down to who's having them?

Wantanswers
02-07-2010, 03:03 AM
Originally Posted by RJ/BS
TITLE: Gathering Storm
Ch. 48 - Reading the Commentary

Min shook her head. That hadn't been a viewing she could interpret, so she let it pass. She couldn't waste her time trying to unravel all of those. For instance, the black knife that spun around Beldeine's head recently could mean anything.

I thought this was an easy one, for Egwene saw something like this in the acceptron.
Beldeine will be stilled by the BA.

Protoculture
03-09-2010, 12:27 PM
I wonder about the meaning of this part
At the end of time,
when the many become one,

It curiously reminds me of
the three shall be one

This is also how I read it.

The blade of light in his hand caused by the key created the break in the storm which allowed the sliver of sunlight through the storm on dragon mount.

The three becomes one refers to the final amalgamation of Rand, LTT, and the "other" that LTT spoke of in a previous book, of which Rand is unaware.

ckparrothead
03-09-2010, 03:32 PM
Tough call on the Essanik Cycle thing. Many become one seems obviously referring to how Rand suddenly remembered and jumbled together hundreds and thousands of previous lives. Seems that prophecy is referring to an event.

Didn't Rand almost decide to basically balefire the world and destroy the pattern right there on the mountain top?

Talk about a significant choice. If that ain't the Last Battle, then it sure as heck could have been.

I wasn't leaning toward the "corrupted prophecy" theory because it seemed far fetched but just taking a step back and reading the thing, that's one dark sounding prophecy. Refers to the end of time which is kind of a red flag because it's exactly what Ish wants. Talks about the angry winds gathering to destroy a land already dying. A blind man will see again, weep for what has been wrought...and what? Destroy the world and the pattern because he finally sees what Ishamael sees, the pointlessness of existence?

Seems like what happened on that mountain top was a pretty important event that could have gone one way or another...and the Essanik Cycle prophecy sure seems like it was written or at least edited by someone who hoped it would go the one way instead of the other.

Of course, it could also be that we're dissecting word choices that need to be viewed broadly, with "end of time" really just meaning end of an age, and it wouldn't be a ridiculous stretch to interpret the parade of emotions that swept through Rand on that mountain top as weeping for what's been wrought.

BTW I think that Cadsuanne did fulfill part of that laughter and tears prophecy because it was her constant prodding that brought him to the brink, including and especially her finding Tam and sending him in to talk to him.