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JanDSedai
02-05-2010, 01:31 AM
Hello all! I am a newcomer to posting, though I have been lurking for over ten years. I have read an incredible amount of science fiction (and fantasy) and have been reading Robert Jordan since 1992. Active in small southern sci-fi cons for over thirty years,I have done everthing from programming, art show, hospitality room, guest liaison, dealer, treasurer, and co-chair. I am currently serving as Chef for OutsideCon, where I cook all weekend for 70-80 people. I am also Treasurer for the Southern Fandom Confederation.

My question is- what happened in the White Tower seventy years ago? Of course, the most "famous" example is Verin becoming Black Ajah. But the circumstances are vague in tGS. But, also, Cadsuane left the tower... seventy years ago. Merana( or Merille?) muses that since that mistake (seventy years ago) she has had an exemplary career. Adelas and Vandine retired to the country to write their history ... seventy years ago. And among the Kin, Garinia is revealed as a novice who ran away-you guessed it- seventy years ago. Once or twice could be co-incidence, but RJ is not careless; I think he is setting us up for some great reveal. But what is it?

Terez
02-05-2010, 03:47 AM
Welcome to Theoryland. :)

If there is going to be some big reveal about something going on around 930 NE, then there's not really any evidence to work with. Everything seems to be coincidence, with no real connections between events. I'm not sure what you are talking about with Merana or Merilille, but Merana gained the shawl about then, and Verin's last 'serious mistake' was around then (which, of course, was allowing herself to get put in the position of being forced to join the Black). I think Vandene and Cadsuane and Adeleas all retired around then cause they're all around the same age. I can't see any conspiracy theory in it.

WinespringBrother
02-05-2010, 11:24 AM
I can't find any references at Encyclopaedia WOT indicating that Cadsuane retired 70 years ago. Can you provide a quote for that?

As for connections, I think there are more of them 2 years ago, where Moiraine went to Adaleas and Vandene to ask some questions of them, while Verin went to Rand and co. claiming that Moiraine sent her. In the least, Verin knew that Moiraine didn't go after Rand when she "disappeared" from the Amyrlin's party, else she would have been caught out in her lie quite easily. Maybe she even suggested to Moiraine to go to them (don't have the books in front of me to see if Moiraine gave a reason for going to them besides the obvious need for information). And of course, the Draghkar showed up, but it could have been sent because of Liandrin possibly.

Davian93
02-05-2010, 11:55 AM
I've always assumed Liandrin sent the Draghkar simply because she disappeared right AFTER Moiraine with no explanation. It seemed fairly clear she was tasked with following Moiraine. Perhaps Verin (as a leader of the BA/member of their ruling coucil) tasked her.

Terez
02-05-2010, 12:09 PM
It's really simple: Moiraine took off from the party of traveling Aes Sedai. Alviarin sent Liandrin after her, and then sent Verin after the boys, because Moiraine was the only thing preventing her from having done that before.

Davian93
02-05-2010, 12:14 PM
It's really simple: Moiraine took off from the party of traveling Aes Sedai. Alviarin sent Liandrin after her, and then sent Verin after the boys, because Moiraine was the only thing preventing her from having done that before.

Yeah, that might make sense too. I wonder how Verin convinced Alviarin to get that tasking.

GonzoTheGreat
02-05-2010, 12:17 PM
Yeah, that might make sense too. I wonder how Verin convinced Alviarin to get that tasking.Perhaps Verin could get it because she already had a connection to the boys.

However, it does raise the question: if Alviarin did send Verin, then what orders did she give, and did Verin carry out those orders?

WinespringBrother
02-05-2010, 01:08 PM
It's really simple: Moiraine took off from the party of traveling Aes Sedai. Alviarin sent Liandrin after her, and then sent Verin after the boys, because Moiraine was the only thing preventing her from having done that before.

That sounds good in theory, but Alviarin had to risk breaking her cover to do so, unless Liandrin was in her DF heart or on the Supreme Council. Alviarin is way too cautious to possibly expose her true nature to anyone who shouldn't know of it, even other Black Ajah. If Liandrin got anonymous encrypted orders, she would wonder who sent them.

I think that Liandrin got orders from a Forsaken, who control all the shadowspawn, to send the draghkar. Also, I think Verin was acting on her own, based on her knowledge of the Dark Prophecy, Moiraine and Siuan's actions (which I believe she did not share with the Shadow) and the Prophecies of the Dragon (5 will go forth...).

lurk
02-05-2010, 01:58 PM
Verin wanted to be close to the dragon reborn, because she IS Brown Ajah and curious. Maybe there were some other motives, but she went to the Two Rivers too to investigate. A place where the old blood runs so strongly, must be interesting.


BTW. Verin did warn Perrin to be careful around Alanna. hunting BA and warning...

or it could simply be that she felt Alanna was ready to bond a taveren like she did with Rand

JanDSedai
02-05-2010, 11:40 PM
About the draghkar attacking Mor at the sisters- was it not decided that Vandene is BA?

And sorry about the lack of quotes. I am not computer literate enough pull from on-line sources. Most of the incidences I originally refered to occured in books 7&8.

Terez
02-06-2010, 01:43 AM
That sounds good in theory, but Alviarin had to risk breaking her cover to do so, unless Liandrin was in her DF heart or on the Supreme Council.
Maybe she gave the orders through Verin, or though some way we haven't thought of. Don't make it more complicated than it has to be. ;)

I don't believe Verin would have been allowed to act on her own in this - the notion is pretty ridiculous actually.

GonzoTheGreat
02-06-2010, 03:51 AM
I can't find any references at Encyclopaedia WOT indicating that Cadsuane retired 70 years ago. Can you provide a quote for that?I can provide a quote against it. Not sure that helps, of course. :p
The shawl had graced Merana’s shoulders for over twenty-five years when Cadsuane announced her retirement from the world, her hair already solid gray, and everyone assumed her long dead when the Aiel War erupted another twenty-five years on, but before the fighting was three months old, she reappeared, accompanied by two Warders, men long in the tooth yet still hard as iron. It was said Cadsuane had had more Warders over the years than most sisters had shoes. After the Aiel retreated from Tar Valon, she retired once more, but some said, more than half-seriously, that Cadsuane would never die so long as even a spark of adventure remained in the world.So Cadsuane retired (or announced her retirement, at least) 45 years ago.

Ishara
02-06-2010, 02:31 PM
And no, Vandene is not BA - Careane was the BA of that group.