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Ishara
03-01-2010, 10:39 PM
Am just (finally!) finishing the entire re-read and am struck, yet again, with questions about how Semirhage came by the e've. Cadsaune shows it quite clearly to both Bair and Sorilea. Bair not being a channeler can't know the guards that Cadsuane set up, but Sorilea could. Why do we not think it was her that set the whole situation in motion? I know that BS set up the scene to make her suspicious, but sometimes when something is that obvious, isn't it just true?

Help me restore my faith in Sorilea. What am I missing in my cold-medication induced thoughts?

(not that I want it to be...)

Terez
03-02-2010, 12:58 AM
Am I missing something?
This thread (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2523) maybe. But perhaps Shaidar Haran somehow knew where the Domination Band was, and told Elza. Or something.

reTaardad
03-02-2010, 02:18 PM
Since I don't feel like going through that entire thread and looking for the answer to this question, I'll ask here:

Who taught Sorilea how to Travel?

Egwene ascertained how in Lords of Chaos, but as far as I know, none of the Wise Ones knew how weave a gateway before Sorilea.

Kimon
03-02-2010, 03:04 PM
Since I don't feel like going through that entire thread and looking for the answer to this question, I'll ask here:

Who taught Sorilea how to Travel?

Egwene ascertained how in Lords of Chaos, but as far as I know, none of the Wise Ones knew how weave a gateway before Sorilea.

You recall that Cadsuane/Verin et al. were concerned with how the Wise Ones suddenly were learning a bunch of weaves which they had previously displayed no knowledge of, and at first they all assumed that they were torturing these out of the captive Aes Sedai (the captives, at least Beldeine- she indicates as such during her interrogation by Verin in PoD - think that it was the dragonsworn who taught them tower weaves). All of this knowledge (including traveling) is coming from Egwene, via her teaching the Aiel dreamers- her way of repaying them for teaching her about dreaming, and as reparations for her lies.

Terez
03-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Since I don't feel like going through that entire thread and looking for the answer to this question, I'll ask here:

Who taught Sorilea how to Travel?
We discussed that (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2660) recently too.

Sarevok
03-02-2010, 06:10 PM
Am just (finally!) finishing the entire re-read and am struck, yet again, with questions about how Semirhage came by the e've.
I think I'm missing something too... What's the "e've"? :confused:

Daekyras
03-02-2010, 06:43 PM
I think I'm missing something too... What's the "e've"? :confused:

I've never read that phrase before either but from Ishara's post and the replies I'm assuming it's the male a'dam Semhi used on Rand...

nameless
03-02-2010, 07:35 PM
Am just (finally!) finishing the entire re-read and am struck, yet again, with questions about how Semirhage came by the e've. Cadsaune shows it quite clearly to both Bair and Sorilea. Bair not being a channeler can't know the guards that Cadsuane set up, but Sorilea could. Why do we not think it was her that set the whole situation in motion? I know that BS set up the scene to make her suspicious, but sometimes when something is that obvious, isn't it just true?

Help me restore my faith in Sorilea. What am I missing in my cold-medication induced thoughts?

(not that I want it to be...)

Possibly this bit from the Brandon Sanderson Q+A database?

"Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?
A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her."

So it wasn't a matter of Sorilea showing her how to undo the hidden traps. It's still up in the air whether Shaidar Haran used his ability to smell the Power in order to locate the bracelets (which were in the only chest in the room to be surrounded by weaves of saidar) or if a human agent of the Shadow betrayed their location.

Weird Harold
03-02-2010, 08:01 PM
I think I'm missing something too... What's the "e've"? :confused:
E've is Theoryland's shorthand for the sad bracelets -- AKA the Domination Band.

It derives from my original argumenet at theoryland wherein I asserted the the Sad bracelets are not a male a'dam -- because until TGS we had no clue how the domination band functioned and now that we do have some clue, it canbe argued that it doesn't work the same as an a'dam; although the end result is very similar to the end result of an a'dam.

E've is also a play on words that reverses the "Adam dominating women" to "Eve dominating men."

nameless
03-03-2010, 04:45 AM
clever... but shouldn't it be a Li'lith?

GonzoTheGreat
03-03-2010, 06:19 AM
Nah, Lilith was smart enough to scarper before the Aelfinn appeared.

Ishara
03-03-2010, 09:27 AM
This thread (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2523) maybe. But perhaps Shaidar Haran somehow knew where the Domination Band was, and told Elza. Or something.

Super helpful - thanks!

So basically, we are supposing that SH nullified the traps and gave the Domination Band to Semirhage. Hmm.

I know Merise mentions an "alarm", but I couldn't decide in the context if she meant an alarm that Aviendha would have raised after the fact, or the alarm that was supposed to go off for Cadsuane.

Do we thoughts on that? Personally, it seems as if all of Cadsuane's traps were nullified at the same time, alarm included.

Kimon
03-03-2010, 04:53 PM
Super helpful - thanks!

So basically, we are supposing that SH nullified the traps and gave the Domination Band to Semirhage. Hmm.

I know Merise mentions an "alarm", but I couldn't decide in the context if she meant an alarm that Aviendha would have raised after the fact, or the alarm that was supposed to go off for Cadsuane.

Do we thoughts on that? Personally, it seems as if all of Cadsuane's traps were nullified at the same time, alarm included.

Merise probably doesn't know that Rand is also bonded to Aviendha (and Elayne). Cadsuane and her cohort still seem to think that Rand bonded Min. Of course if they knew that she bonded him, then they would have to wonder how...

Ishara
03-03-2010, 08:34 PM
Merise may not know about Aviendha, but I'll bet we can sure that she didn't start screaming about the bond. She's more direct - it would definitely be more of a "the Car'a'carn is in trouble" kind of warning, no?

Cadsuane does come to the conclusion that whoever took the bracelets from her room did it to sow dissension. She seems to have no suspicions re: Sorilea considering she basically runs off to her the next second with her plan re: Tam. And she is pretty suspicious...

I'd forgotten how irritating I found Min in this book...

Spasmodean
03-03-2010, 08:40 PM
Merise probably doesn't know that Rand is also bonded to Aviendha (and Elayne). Cadsuane and her cohort still seem to think that Rand bonded Min. Of course if they knew that she bonded him, then they would have to wonder how...

They know about Asha'man bonding sisters, maybe they assumed Rand bonded her rather than the other way round?

Kimon
03-03-2010, 09:26 PM
They know about Asha'man bonding sisters, maybe they assumed Rand bonded her rather than the other way round?

It's an understandable misunderstanding since Min can't channel. The only possible reason that they might know more is if Alanna shared with Cadsuane that little nugget that he revealed to her in Far Madding- that he had allowed another woman to bond him. Alanna parted company with Cadsuane right after that, however, and though they have all met briefly again with Alanna (in Tear), there is nothing in the text that would suggest that she (Alanna) has shared that information with anyone else. Even if she did, she might just think (at present) that Rand just meant Min. It's clear in Far Madding that she assumes that he meant an Aes Sedai, but later in Tear she seems to have caught on that Rand and Min must be bonded to each other.

Kurtz
03-05-2010, 07:12 PM
Merise may not know about Aviendha, but I'll bet we can sure that she didn't start screaming about the bond. She's more direct - it would definitely be more of a "the Car'a'carn is in trouble" kind of warning, no?

Cadsuane does come to the conclusion that whoever took the bracelets from her room did it to sow dissension. She seems to have no suspicions re: Sorilea considering she basically runs off to her the next second with her plan re: Tam. And she is pretty suspicious...

I'd forgotten how irritating I found Min in this book...


I thought Min was alright. She should have told Rand that he was a massive **** (word i'm not allowed to say) but I guess she realised him trusting her a fraction was better than him trusting no one at all. Plus sex with the most powerful man on the planet can't be passed off.

GonzoTheGreat
03-06-2010, 04:30 AM
Which raises the question: does she have any blue dresses in a fridge?

Ishara
03-06-2010, 11:27 AM
I thought Min was alright. She should have told Rand that he was a massive **** (word i'm not allowed to say) but I guess she realised him trusting her a fraction was better than him trusting no one at all. Plus sex with the most powerful man on the planet can't be passed off.

LOL @ Kurtz. Thanks for the restraint pal.

I just felt she was super whiny. Just kind of superfluous.

GonzoTheGreat
03-06-2010, 11:33 AM
I just felt she was super whiny.Probably just hormones. She's bound to have them, after all.

Ishara
03-06-2010, 11:40 AM
Probably just hormones. She's bound to have them, after all.

Pftt. What was his excuse then?

GonzoTheGreat
03-06-2010, 11:56 AM
Pftt. What was his excuse then?Probably Min's hormones, too. He is quite often in very close proximity to them, after all.