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grunt
05-17-2010, 02:25 PM
I suspect he survived the Seanchan attack and still has a part to play. Egwene will likely work towards returning him to his throne. Rand's refusal could trigger the Amyrlin's anger.

I haven't seen his kidnapping discussed much. Did it take place in books 4-6?

Terez
05-17-2010, 02:28 PM
The plans were laid down in 6, and he got kidnapped shortly before Rand invaded Illian, in 7.

He might be restored to his throne, but perhaps not until Rand dies.

grunt
05-17-2010, 02:29 PM
The plans were laid down in 6, and he got kidnapped shortly before Rand invaded Illian, in 7.

He might be restored to his throne, but perhaps not until Rand dies.

I always assumed Elaida started on this plan soon after she was raised. It would take significant time and resources to pull such a thing off. What book was she raised in?

Terez
05-17-2010, 02:33 PM
She was raised in 4, near the end. I was wrong about it being started in 6 - it was in 7, in the prologue. The reason I said that is because Elaida uses the words 'The first message' when she starts talking about her plans for the various rulers and nobles, and the prologue to Lord of Chaos is called The First Message. I keep forgetting that Elaida POV is not in that prologue, lol. Elaida isn't in Lord of Chaos at all.

Enigma
05-17-2010, 04:09 PM
Would the Illianers want him back? Rand was pretty popular thanks to him sending food from Tear. Mattin Stepaneos did not seem to be a terrible ruler compared to some but neither did he seeme to be especially beloved of the people or the nobility.

Marie Curie 7
05-17-2010, 06:45 PM
I suspect he survived the Seanchan attack and still has a part to play. Egwene will likely work towards returning him to his throne. Rand's refusal could trigger the Amyrlin's anger.

We know for sure he's still around via Brandon:

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

Q: Whatever happened to the kidnapped King of Illian - Mattin Stepaneos?
A: He's still in the White Tower. Brandon thought about mentioning him a few times, but it just didn't work out. It was implied that we'll see further mention of this in Towers of Midnight.

I haven't seen his kidnapping discussed much. Did it take place in books 4-6?

FYI, you can find out a lot of this kind of information using Encyclopaedia WoT (http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/). Under "Characters", you can check out, for example, the entry for Mattin Stepaneos (http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/m/mattin_stepaneos.html):

King Mattin Stepaneos den Balgar

King of Illian. His sign is three leopards, silver on black.

Physical Description
He is muscular. His beard is white and he is nearly bald. He has a well-broken nose and a creased face. (KoD,Ch2)

Chronology
* King Mattin Stepaneos leads the forces opposing the Children of the Light in the Whitecloak War of 957 NE. He is captured and ransomed by Pedron Niall. (Guide)
* Mattin Stepaneos presents Tam al'Thor of the Illianer Companions with a One Power-crafted heron-mark sword. (Book Signing)
* Danelle reports to Elaida that Mattin Stepaneos has agreed to her proposition while Roedran, Tylin and Alliandre are still considering. (LoC,Ch7)
* With the army massing in Tear, Mattin Stepaneos negotiates with both the White Tower and the Children of the Light. (LoC,Ch9)
* Mattin Stepaneos is kidnapped from Illian by the White Tower two days before Rand attacks. (ACoS,Ch41, KoD,Ch2)
* Mattin Stepaneos is delivered to Elaida in the White Tower. He rants at her over his kidnapping and treatment. She tells him that she saved him from Rand. (KoD,Ch2)
* Egwene meets Mattin Stepaneos and tells him the truth about Rand's treatment of rulers in other countries. (KoD,Ch24)

Other References
* TFoH,Ch41 - Mattin Stepaneos den Balgar is king of Illian.
* LoC,Ch9 - His sign is three leopards, silver on black.
* LoC,Ch9 - Stepaneos has an Aes Sedai advisor, but he keeps her hidden.
* ACoS,Prologue - Elaida issues orders to have Mattin Stepaneos kidnapped.
* ACoS,Ch41 - The Council of Nine believe Lord Brend had something to do with Mattin Stepaneos' disappearance.
* TPoD,Ch13 - Most of Lord Brend's supporters disbanded when they learned that Brend was dead and Mattin Stepaneos disappeared.
* TPoD,Ch14 - Rand is now using Mattin Stepaneos' gaudy tent as his headquarters.
* TPoD,Ch16 - Siuan has a report that Mattin Stepaneos was actually kidnapped.

The information that you were interested in is underlined.

GonzoTheGreat
05-18-2010, 03:30 AM
Suppose that Egwene mentions Stepaneos, and Rand then asks why the AS did not (try to) remove Sammael from Illian, then what is she going to answer?

FelixPax
05-18-2010, 05:16 AM
Would the Illianers want him back?

Yes, I believe. Mattin Stepaneos was not a bad ruler previously. Only after Lord Brend "Sammael" came to town, things went downhill badly.

Source: A Crown of Swords, book 7, Chapter 41 "A Crown of Swords" - Rand point of view in Illian.

“The city do be yours, of course,” Gregorin went on anxiously. “We did put an end to all resistance. We do offer you the crown, and the throne, and all of Illian.” Rand stared at the crown on its cushion, not moving a muscle. People had thought he meant to make himself a king in Tear, feared he would in Cairhien and Andor, but no one had offered him a crown before. “Why? Is Mattin Stepaneos so willing to give up his throne?”

“King Mattin did disappear two days ago,” Gregorin said. “Some of us do fear . . . We do fear Lord Brend may have something to with it. Brend does have . . . ” He stopped to swallow. “Brend did have a great deal of influence with the king, some might say too much, but he did be distracted in recent months, and Mattin had begun to reassert himself.”

Strips of grimy coatsleeve and pieces of shirtsleeve dangled as Rand reached to pick up the Laurel Crown. The Dragon wound around his forearm glittered in the lamplight as brightly as the golden crown. He turned it in his hands. “You still haven’t said why. Because I conquered you?” He had conquered Tear, and Cairhien too, but some turned on him in both lands still. Yet it seemed to be the only way.

“That do be part,” Gregorin said dryly. “Even so, we might have chosen one of our own; kings have come from the Council before. But the grain you did order sent from Tear has your name on every lip with the Light. Without that, many would be dead of starvation. Brend did see every stick of bread go to the army.”


Tam al'Thor I think will have a role to play, in this outcome, of who will be the future King of Illian. Tam al'Thor name is respected in Illian, Ghealdan, and is respected personally by Egwene al'Vere and Rand. If Tam al'Thor support Mattin Stepaneos, as I believe he will, he will be the King Again.


Why is Tam's voice important here?

Tam al'Thor's Companions actions in Pedron Niall's own words saved Mattin Stepaneos's crown and Illian's lands, from White Cloaks during the Whitecloak War.

Rand al'Thor might just finally learn where his first heron mark sword came from, Mattin Stepaneos who gave it to Tam al'Thor. That sword helped save Rand's own life multiple times....

Besides Rand would gain creditably with Egwene, and the other Borderlander Rulers if he vacated the throne of Illian, and returned it to Mattin Stepanoes den Balgar.

I'd be shocked if there's not a deal reach here, between Rand, Egwene and Mattin to return him to the throne.

It's not like Rand knows he has a long life in front of himself, and he needs to think of the future, for Illian's sake.

GonzoTheGreat
05-18-2010, 06:08 AM
So the next book will be The Return Of The King, then?
Next you're gonna tell me that the big finale is when the hero from humble origins and his one companion sneak into a big, smoky mountain to defeat there the invincible Lord of Evil.

That kind of story will never sell, you know.

Sei'taer
05-18-2010, 06:43 AM
I suspect he survived the Seanchan attack and still has a part to play. Egwene will likely work towards returning him to his throne. Rand's refusal could trigger the Amyrlin's anger.

I haven't seen his kidnapping discussed much. Did it take place in books 4-6?

A good resource for the characters is here, www.wotdb.com (http://www.wotdb.com/characters/view/1361)

I think there's still some work being done on it, but for characters it works great.