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Neilbert
05-30-2010, 08:43 PM
So here's some sorta forum for struggling parents to discuss parenting.It's called conductdisorders. (http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/forum.php) if that doesn't tell you something.

Check it out if you want to see children's futures being systematically destroyed by their parents in semi real time.

Work safe, but not for the faint of heart.

Sinistrum
05-30-2010, 09:08 PM
GASP! Wait, you mean kids are selfish, self-centered, ignorant of social norms, act out when they don't get what they want, and generally misbehave?! ZOMG MEDICATE THEM! I mean, heaven forbid you actually use discipline to address disciplinary problems.

Birgitte
05-30-2010, 10:51 PM
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129188535965309019.jpg

DahLliA
05-31-2010, 12:17 AM
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129188535965309019.jpg

I approve :p

Neilbert
05-31-2010, 05:30 AM
GASP! Wait, you mean kids are selfish, self-centered, ignorant of social norms, act out when they don't get what they want, and generally misbehave?! ZOMG MEDICATE THEM! I mean, heaven forbid you actually use discipline to address disciplinary problems.

Yes, clearly the problem is that these children don't have enough discipline in their lives...

Developmental psych courses should be mandatory.

Zaela Sedai
05-31-2010, 08:19 AM
My daughter would rather be grounded or spanked then have me yell at her....needless to say I've never spanked her (not against it just haven't had to) and i think I've taken tv away once.

Her father can't yell effectively so reverts to the other two options.

Wanna guess whom she stops in her tracks for? LOL

Neilbert
05-31-2010, 08:35 AM
Developmental Psych classes should be MANDATORY.

Some wiki summaries of parenting styles:

Good:
Authoritative parents set limits and demand maturity, but when punishing a child, the parent will explain his or her motive for their punishment. "Their punishments are measured and consistent in discipline, not harsh or arbitrary. Parents will set clear standards for their children, monitor limits that they set, and also allow children to develop autonomy. They also expect mature, independent, and age-appropriate behavior of children."[1] They are attentive to their children’s needs and concerns, and will typically forgive and teach instead of punishing if a child falls short.[17] This is supposed to result in children having a higher self esteem and independence because of the democratic give-take nature of the authoritative parenting style. This is the most recommended style of parenting by child-rearing experts.

Not surprisingly, wiki likes Authoritarian parenting more than the psychologists I've talked to, but still, pretty shitty.

Authoritarian parenting, also called strict,[15] is characterized by high expectations of conformity and compliance to parental rules and directions, while allowing little open dialogue between parent and child. "Authoritarian parenting is a restrictive, punitive style in which parents exhort the child to follow their directions and to respect their work and effort."[1] Authoritarian parents expect much of their child but generally do not explain the reasoning for the rules or boundaries.[18] Authoritarian parents are less responsive to their children’s needs, and are more likely to spank a child rather than discuss the problem.[19]
Children with this type of parenting may have less social competence as the parent generally tells the child what to do instead of allowing the child to choose by him or herself.[20] Nonetheless, researchers have found that in some cultures and ethnic groups, aspects of authoritarian style may be associated with more positive child outcomes than Baumrind predicts. "Aspects of traditional Asian child-rearing practices are often continued by Asian American families. In some cases, these practices have been described as authoritarian."[1]

If you want the end result of this basically think Sinistrum. Usually anger issues, social adjustment issues, and a desire to dominate others. The willingness to play by the rules usually extends only as far as being watched.

We've all seen this:
Indulgent parenting, also called permissive, nondirective or lenient,[15] is characterized as having few behavioral expectations for the child. "Indulgent parenting is a style of parenting in which parents are very involved with their children but place few demands or controls on them."[1] Parents are nurturing and accepting, and are very responsive to the child's needs and wishes. Indulgent parents do not require children to regulate themselves or behave appropriately. This may result in creating spoiled brats or "spoiled sweet" children depending on the behavior of the children.

Rounding things out:
Neglectful parenting is also called uninvolved, detached, dismissive or hands-off.[15] The parents are low in warmth and control, are generally not involved in their child's life, are disengaged, undemanding, low in responsiveness, and do not set limits. Parents are emotionally unsupportive of their children, but will still provide their basic needs.[22]
Children whose parents are neglectful develop the sense that other aspects of the parents’ lives are more important than they are.[1] Children often display contradictory behavior, and are emotionally withdrawn from social situations. This disturbed attachment also impacts relationships later on in life. In adolescence, they may show patterns of truancy and delinquency.[1]

My parents were a combination of authoritarian and neglectful and boy howdy has it ever had some negative impacts.

Talking about the need for "discipline" is really dumb because how you discipline, how you explain the discipline, and the circumstances surrounding the discipline make a huge huge difference.

yks 6nnetu hing
05-31-2010, 09:31 AM
any particular topic that sparked this thread? I checked the board out a bit and yeah... it seemed a bit excessive (proabaly a lot excessive, had I dug deeper) but it would help to have a more specific thing to comment on :p

also, what do you call it if the kid is the 2nd grown-up in the family starting at the age of 5?

Davian93
05-31-2010, 12:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gwGcP8QbH8

My feelings on the matter.

Frenzy
05-31-2010, 12:44 PM
If you want the end result of this basically think Sinistrum. Usually anger issues, social adjustment issues, and a desire to dominate others. The willingness to play by the rules usually extends only as far as being watched.
wow, overgeneralize much?

anyway, no comments from me. i'm performing my own psychological experiments.

Uno
05-31-2010, 12:57 PM
wow, overgeneralize much?

anyway, no comments from me. i'm performing my own psychological experiments.

Indeed? I have a hard time believing that words fail you, sister.

Mort
05-31-2010, 01:07 PM
wow, overgeneralize much?

anyway, no comments from me. i'm performing my own psychological experiments.

I hope you havn't constructed your own Skinner Box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_box)? :eek:

;)

Neilbert
05-31-2010, 02:35 PM
wow, overgeneralize much?

anyway, no comments from me. i'm performing my own psychological experiments.

Me too. I'm trying to see how predictable people's responses will be.

You are the second check mark in my notebook. :)

Hopper
05-31-2010, 03:36 PM
Indeed? I have a hard time believing that words fail you, sister.

I don't think that words failed her. She just chose to keep them to herself.

Frenzy is showing restraint.

Sinistrum
05-31-2010, 06:29 PM
If you want the end result of this basically think Sinistrum. Usually anger issues, social adjustment issues, and a desire to dominate others. The willingness to play by the rules usually extends only as far as being watched.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH! I love it when you make ignorant assumptions about me. I mean after all, why deal with the facts as they are when you can invent ones that are infinitely more emotionally satisfying to you? That's pretty much becoming your SOP in any debate on an issue.

For the record my father and step-mother were Authoritative parents, and it is precisely the kind of parent I ascribe to be. It is also the kind of discipline I go for when I make comments like my original. The parents on the board you posted seem to be a mix of indulgent or neglectful, hence Authoritative discipline is called for instead of just doping their children up so they will respond better to bribes or allow their parents to get that last round in on Xbox360. Neither of my parents were Authoritarian, so yeah, please try again. ;)

Bryan Blaire
05-31-2010, 07:02 PM
~snore~

~posts "Don't feed the Troll" signage about~

My only contention with parenting is that I wish that people would quit worrying about what others think about their parenting and just do it, and that everyone else would quit concerning themselves with how "I" parent "my" children since obviously theirs haven't turned out/aren't turning out to be the "Paragon Saviors of the Universe".

I'm surprised no one has been commenting on Oppositional Defiance Disorder. LOL

Zaela Sedai
05-31-2010, 07:48 PM
You've got to take the kid into consideration too, some need different types of parenting. For example, Abby is a mini me so I just tried doing to her what WOULD have worked on me when I was kid (I got away with murder, thank god I was a decent kid once i grew out of tantrums) and that strategy works marvelously with Abby.

The only thing I don't tolerate is acting out in public, and thats because I used to have to be carried out of the store kicking and screaming when I was a kid. Either I'm really lucky and have a child that never would act out in public or I've done well in setting the limitations and expectations, adjusting as she gets older. You tell me lol

Bryan Blaire
05-31-2010, 09:56 PM
I agree Zae, each child is different and needs different things. They are individual people, after all, not just a collective of "children" in a family.

Oatman
05-31-2010, 10:18 PM
Talking about the need for "discipline" is really dumb because how you discipline, how you explain the discipline, and the circumstances surrounding the discipline make a huge huge difference.

I disagree. However, I think you are mistaking discipline for punishment. Discipline for a child is the teaching of a way of life, hopefully a socially acceptable one, and as such needs to be taught, rather then enforced. Enforcement and reinforcement do come into it, as learning that actions have consequences is particularly important in life, but the learning is more important than the enforcer.

Ivhon
05-31-2010, 10:42 PM
Im confused. What specifically is the problem in here? I spent a bit of time flipping through - clearly did not read every post in every thread.

I don't necessarily agree with everything I did see. On the other hand, SUPPORT in parenting and particularly in dealing with challenging child situations is invaluable. It can dratically reduce the amount of emotional reactivity expressed by the parents - which, more often than not, is the precise source of whatever acting out issues the child is having in the first place.

What, precisely, is wrong with parents having a resource (that they don't have to pay $100+/hr. for) to try to get some help with, say, an adolescent with substance abuse issues? You don't get experience with that just from popping a kid out.

BB, I think I disagree with what I think you were saying - which I took to be neither ask for nor give advice in parenting (I may have misunderstood that). Certainly giving unsolicited advice is a bad thing. However, to think that you automatically know how to parent just because you managed to create a baby seems the height of hubris to me. Not too long ago (and is still the case in some cultures), parenting was a communal effort where parents shared duties with grandparents, aunts, uncles and good friends. It does not surprise me that "idiot parent syndrome" seems to loosely correlate with the individualistic desire to prove that we no longer need that support and that we can be perfectly good parents all by ourselves. Again, I may have misconstrued.

And again, I did not spend tons of time on that site (10 minutes or so). If there are enough parents there that are willing to look in the mirror and be willing to make some changes in parenting style, then it is probably an OK site. If ALL they do is problematize the child and point fingers somewhere else, then it might not be so good.

"Problem" children are overwhelmingly the result of what is going on with the parents.

Frenzy
05-31-2010, 11:45 PM
"Problem" children are overwhelmingly the result of what is going on with the parents.
Very true. Either the parent causing the problem, or the parent not correcting the problem.

it's amazing the level of crap parents deal with; from kids, from other people's kids, from other parents, and from people in general. If sex wasn't so mind-blowingly awesome, the species would've died out millenia ago.

Me too. I'm trying to see how predictable people's responses will be.

You are the second check mark in my notebook. :)
see how he so totally pwned me there? that was so badass. my mind is actually reeling from the ginormous amounts of pwnage there.

ShadowbaneX
05-31-2010, 11:47 PM
see how he so totally pwned me there? that was so badass. my mind is actually reeling from the ginormous amounts of pwnage there.

Actually, I don't. Maybe I need glasses...or perhaps I'm just another check mark in his book.

Sinistrum
06-01-2010, 12:11 AM
Well you see SBX, he is apparently the puppet master. He is manipulating all of us into posting precisely how he wants and expects us too. Because everything we post is entirely about him and not about whatever enjoyment we may gain out of it regardless of how it impacts or affects him. ;)

Mort
06-01-2010, 01:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gwGcP8QbH8

My feelings on the matter.

I had to watch Mallrats again when I saw that clip :D
It was too damn long ago. Kevin Smith is awesome.

Zaela Sedai
06-01-2010, 06:17 AM
If sex wasn't so mind-blowingly awesome, the species would've died out millenia ago.



Isn't that the truth. That was a great evolutionary trait, maybe the best and most important of the species. Too bad a few individuals are missing the gene LOL

yks 6nnetu hing
06-01-2010, 06:37 AM
Me too. I'm trying to see how predictable people's responses will be.

You are the second check mark in my notebook. :) are you not counting the 2 instances of people asking "what in particular are you talking about?" 'cause I still haven't seen an answer to that.

Isn't that the truth. That was a great evolutionary trait, maybe the best and most important of the species. Too bad a few individuals are missing the gene LOL :eek: I'm not sure if I want more information or if it's already TMI.

Davian93
06-01-2010, 08:08 AM
Isn't that the truth. That was a great evolutionary trait, maybe the best and most important of the species. Too bad a few individuals are missing the gene LOL

~coughs~

Thumbdrive

~coughs again~

Sei'taer
06-01-2010, 08:27 AM
I believe in letting my kids do whatever they want. Everything is on the table. When I get a complaint, I beat the holy living shit out of them and then take them to this underground "doctor" who fixes them all nice and gives them a ton of drugs and then plants memories of falling down the stairs in their heads. Of course, he has a sick fetish that he likes to act out when he has kids around, but I figure that's ok because he doesn't charge me anything if I let him have his way with the little bastards.

It's a win/win for everyone. The kids never know, the doc gets his rocks off and I get to work out my anger issues on little people who can't fight back.

Mort
06-01-2010, 08:46 AM
I believe in letting my kids do whatever they want. Everything is on the table. When I get a complaint, I beat the holy living shit out of them and then take them to this underground "doctor" who fixes them all nice and gives them a ton of drugs and then plants memories of falling down the stairs in their heads. Of course, he has a sick fetish that he likes to act out when he has kids around, but I figure that's ok because he doesn't charge me anything if I let him have his way with the little bastards.

It's a win/win for everyone. The kids never know, the doc gets his rocks off and I get to work out my anger issues on little people who can't fight back.

It's almost as if it's immoral, but it isn't, because no one will ever know!

You, sir, are a parental genius!

Sei'taer
06-01-2010, 08:58 AM
It's almost as if it's immoral, but it isn't, because no one will ever know!

You, sir, are a parental genius!

If only people were more like you, my new best friend!

Uno
06-01-2010, 11:42 AM
It's almost as if it's immoral, but it isn't, because no one will ever know!

That's a profound statement.

Davian93
06-01-2010, 11:57 AM
I believe in letting my kids do whatever they want. Everything is on the table. When I get a complaint, I beat the holy living shit out of them and then take them to this underground "doctor" who fixes them all nice and gives them a ton of drugs and then plants memories of falling down the stairs in their heads. Of course, he has a sick fetish that he likes to act out when he has kids around, but I figure that's ok because he doesn't charge me anything if I let him have his way with the little bastards.

It's a win/win for everyone. The kids never know, the doc gets his rocks off and I get to work out my anger issues on little people who can't fight back.

Well, you mess with the bull, you get the horn.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/16/article-0-019F64E200000578-373_468x371_popup.jpg

Ivhon
06-01-2010, 12:28 PM
Well, you mess with the bull, you get the horn.


Oh, god, I did NOT need to see that.

My dick just turtled up halfway to my stomach.

Zaela Sedai
06-01-2010, 03:01 PM
~coughs~

Thumbdrive

~coughs again~



LMFAO I'll never live down that wee bit of TMI ... but yes exactly

Bryan Blaire
06-02-2010, 06:08 AM
Ivhon, that's not what I meant. I am talking about the nature of our nosey-ass society and its obsession with the random public poking about in other people's business. Supernanny, Wife-Swap, your neighbor deciding that because your child is crying you are obviously abusing them and calling the cops without asking you what is going on or even bothering to have ever gotten to know you in the first place, etc.

My point is that people should worry about fixing their dumb-dumb kids first before spouting off to me about how me doing X is going to ruin my children. Why the hell should I take advice from the "public" when I've got pretty good evidence that the public around here (my own home) doesn't have any control or care about their own children.

GonzoTheGreat
06-02-2010, 06:13 AM
Well, Bryan, if you do give your children a proper upbringing, then they will be severely deviant from the norm, which is set by all those others around you. Thus, you are raising your kids to be freaks.

That's not good parenting, is it? Far better to do what is customary in your neighbourhood, so that your children won't stand out when they meet others.

Bryan Blaire
06-02-2010, 06:17 AM
Nah, I believe that good parenting is the mode in which you bring them up to rule over all the surrounding peasants. ;)

I'd rather have my children be little freaks, as they will also be taught to defend themselves in numerous situations and hopefully understand how to avoid those situations as much as possible as well.