Some Liandrin questions?

[IronRand]

One, is Rendra (the inkeeper from Shadow Rising who looked like her) her sister?

Could she possibly be a lesbian since she hates men so much?

[Terez]

There's nothing to indicate that Rendra was her sister - they only resembled each other - and there's also nothing to indicate thath Liandrin has any sexual interests whatsoever, though it wouldn't exactly be surprising if she was a lesbian, since many Aes Sedai, especially Reds, are. Not all lesbians are man-haters, but Liandrin wouldn't be the first.

[Dragon]

I think it's a nice idea.

Both look like sisters and Rendra even mentions her older, not that pleasant sister in TSR, ch.46:
"When first she [Moghedien] saw me, she looked at me as my older sister did when we were children and she was thinking of tying my braids to the bush."

Plus, Liandrin, who was a commoner as well, likely comes from a city like Tanchico, because she mentions contact with nobles and wealthy people in TSR, ch.38:
"She had copied the manner in which nobles and the wealthy spoke for so long that sometimes she forgot her father had sold fruit from a barrow, yet in one moment of anger the speech of a commoner rolled off her tongue."

That means at least appearance, age, character and background apparently match.

Of course, even if Liandrin and Rendra are sisters, it doesn't seem to have any plot relevance, so - if anything - it would probably just be a little easter egg by RJ.

As for Liandrin's sexual preferences, neither do I know nor do I care.. ;)

[Weird Harold]

That means at least appearance, age, character and background apparently match.

I"m not so sure about the age matching. Liandrin is "young" but that's "young" for an AS. She's been AS long enough to develop the "ageless look."

The Encylopedia WOT summary suggests that Liandrin is younger than Moiraine who is 42 at the beginning of the series, but she's also been AS for some time -- as a rough guess, I'd place her age as around 35-40 or about 10-15 years older than Rendra -- which would make a Aunt/Niece relationship or Cousin/Cousin link more likely than sisters. Siblings born as much as twenty years apart aren't unheard of, but they're NOT very common in 18th century level societies -- in large families, ten years difference between oldest and youngest might be found, but there's no indication that either came from a large family with a perpetually pregnant mother.

[Terez]

Liandrin, who was a commoner as well, likely comes from a city like Tanchico, because she mentions contact with nobles and wealthy people in TSR, ch.38
I'm sure you're aware of the typical class pyramid...the working class is by far the most vast aspect of that pyramid, so the fact that both were from that class means nothing, and the speculation that both were from the nation's largest city means little, and in an Age where people rarely pack up and move anywhere, their resemblence doesn't add much in the way of evidence.

Of course, even if Liandrin and Rendra are sisters, it doesn't seem to have any plot relevance, so
...it's probably not the case. :)

[Dragon]

It's correct that the parallels are rather tenuous. But on the other hand, nothing really rules out IronRand's idea.

Probably only RJ could have told us, if there is a blood relationship between Liandrin and Rendra or if it's just coincidence.

[Davian93]

It's correct that the parallels are rather tenuous. But on the other hand, nothing really rules out IronRand's idea.

Probably only RJ could have told us, if there is a blood relationship between Liandrin and Rendra or if it's just coincidence.

Interesting what we will discuss when there hasn't been a book out in several years. Like the others said, its possible they are related but unlikely. I do think Liandrin is closer to 30 than 35...I got the impression that she was young even compared to Moiraine (who at 42 was a baby as far as AS go).

[IronRand]

Well after Moghedien tied Liandrin's tubes so to speak, she seemed to even suggest she would need help from someone like Nynaeve to gain her magic powers back. As for rendra, when they did that angle with her putting Amathera to work, I thought i would be a possible premise for the two of them starting another adventure group (ala Basel Gill, Morgase and co) in the future when the Seanchan returned and that might possibly make Rendra and Liandrin meet again and then...mystery solved.

[Terez]

Well, Amathera hasn't been with Rendra in some time, so that's out.

[Davian93]

Well after Moghedien tied Liandrin's tubes so to speak, she seemed to even suggest she would need help from someone like Nynaeve to gain her magic powers back. As for rendra, when they did that angle with her putting Amathera to work, I thought i would be a possible premise for the two of them starting another adventure group (ala Basel Gill, Morgase and co) in the future when the Seanchan returned and that might possibly make Rendra and Liandrin meet again and then...mystery solved.

Thank god that didn't happen...there's enough subplots already. At least Morgase is somewhat important to the plotline, though perhaps not as much as has been devoted to her little escape, capture, escape, servitude etc life has been.

[Weird Harold]

I do think Liandrin is closer to 30 than 35...I got the impression that she was young even compared to Moiraine (who at 42 was a baby as far as AS go).

I have no idea how long it takes to develop the ageless look, or how long liandrin took to gain the shawl after she showed up at the tower.

We do know tha Liandrin started channeling a year before she went to the WT and we know that she wasn't mentioned in New Spring as a novice or accepted.

We know that Moirane and Siuan were exceptional in gaining the shawl as young as they did because they only spent something like six years (three as novices and three as accepted) in the Tower before being raised. Nothing has been said about liandrin being one of the super-strong and/or super talented so she probably took the normal six to eight years each to advance through novice and accepted to the Shawl. (12 to 16 years total)

Liandrin was sparker, but not an exceptionally strong one -- a guess that she sparked at the upper end of a sparkers age range -- age 18 or 19 and went to the tower at age 19 or 20 within year after new spring ended (979 or 980 NE) When Moiraine was 23 or 24 -- that would put Liandrin as, at best, 38 in tEotW when Moiraine was 42. That would give Liandrin two to four years to develop the Ageless Look and quit being considered newly raised as well as "young."

She couldn't have entered the Tower much later than right after New Spring because she's not considered a "prodigy" and would need at least ten years in training to avoid that label. And she couldn't have been too much older or younger than the average novice when she showed up.

[Dragon]

Of course, we also don't really know, how old Rendra is. Her age is just estimated. But if Rendra is maybe around 28 and Liandrin maybe around 35, they could very well be sisters.

[Terez]

And of course, it could also be that Rendra went to the Tower with Liandrin and burned out in training. They have the same genes, so it wouldn't be surprising if Rendra could channel too.

[GonzoTheGreat]

However, burning out in training doesn't happen all that often. That's the whole point of the coddling of the apprentices that the AS do, isn't it: to keep them safe and secure until they get the Shawl, at which point they can find out for themselves that the world isn't as nice as the Tower is. After which most of the survivors return to the Tower, of course.

[Dragon]

Dammit, RJ should have told us much more about Rendra! Let's hope his notes clear all these mysteries up. :p

[Terez]

However, burning out in training doesn't happen all that often.
Yes, but when your sister has a sick sense of what constitutes entertainment, the odds get a lot higher.

[Davian93]

Yes, but when your sister has a sick sense of what constitutes entertainment, the odds get a lot higher.


~reads the direction the thread has taken~

My my we have gone quite far out on the tree limb here speculating. Someone should ask Sanderson what connection there is between Rendra and Liandrin and go into all this about ages, the ageless look, average AS training periods etc etc.

My guess is that he'd wet his pants realizing how crazy we are and start trying to remember who Rendra even is...let alone Liandrin. It would be very interesting to see. Of course RJ just would have RAFO'd us to cover himself.

[Terez]

How could you forget Liandrin? :confused: Besides, I'm sure BS is writing about her final comeuppance right now...

[Dragon]

I mean, it would be funny if Liandrin was already a bully in her childhood and badgered her poor little sister. Would shed a little more light on her character (so, it would have at least a bit relevance). ;)

[Terez]

Would it really shed any more light? I think we know enough about her character...

I have a good theory, though...the Lady Leilwin was actually a Seanchan in disguise! I mean, she looked like a Seanchan, so surely she is one...

[Dragon]

We can always use little more tidbits on certain characters! ;)

As for Leilwin, if she were a disguised Seanchan, she wouldn't look like one, right? :p

[Terez]

Sure she would, unless she was using Illusion...she was just pretending to be a Taraboner. :D

[Dragon]

This is getting too crazy. I'm out.. ;)

[Terez]

Boo! Go back to Dragonmount then. :p

[Davian93]

Boo! Go back to Dragonmount then. :p

Dragonmount?!? Boooooooo!

~thinks about it~

Wait, yeah I post there sometimes too...though it has been a couple months...I got tired of new threads titled "So is this Rand guy the Dragon Reborn?..."

[Brita]

Wait, yeah I post there sometimes too...though it has been a couple months...I got tired of new threads titled "So is this Rand guy the Dragon Reborn?..."

LOL! Are you serious? I'm no WoT expert, but at least I'm not that bad.

[Terez]

He's probably not far from serious. Dragonmount is a big site - since RJ's blog is there, it attracts the masses, so you get discussions that represent the masses. It's similar to the MySpace WoT group that I post at sometimes, but that group is more subdued.

[Davian93]

He's probably not far from serious. Dragonmount is a big site - since RJ's blog is there, it attracts the masses, so you get discussions that represent the masses. It's similar to the MySpace WoT group that I post at sometimes, but that group is more subdued.

Alot of times it gets pretty close to that...its usually the first site people go to upon reading WoT so you get the "halfway through Book 1" questions and all the old theories get dredged up like Taimandred, 2 souls, etc etc...

[GonzoTheGreat]

We haven't had a Taimandred debate on this site, yet, have we?

[4Alethinos]

Right, and we really need a discussion of two souls versus one and a discussion on who killed Asmodean and we need a discussion on what is the DO up to. :D :rolleyes: :eek:

[The Immortal One]

On a totally unrelated note; and I'm only putting it here because Davian said this:
Thank god that didn't happen...there's enough subplots already. At least Morgase is somewhat important to the plotline, though perhaps not as much as has been devoted to her little escape, capture, escape, servitude etc life has been.
and I can't be bothered to begin a whole new thread for it:

In Fires of Heaven Morgase thinks:
At first she had no notion of where she was going or why, only that she would not wait obediently for any man or woman in the world

which is rather ironic considering that she becomes Perrin's maid in only a few months

[the silent speaker]

Right, and we really need a discussion of two souls versus one and a discussion on who killed Asmodean and we need a discussion on what is the DO up to. :D :rolleyes: :eek:
Right, since Demandred was always the not-quite matchup to Lews Therin, it follows that (like Rand) he has two souls (one of which is Mazrim Taim) and the second one killed Asmodean. That's why the DO knew more about Asmodean than Demandred did, and laughed when Demandred asked, "Have I not done well?"

[Figbiscuit]

Alot of times it gets pretty close to that...its usually the first site people go to upon reading WoT so you get the "halfway through Book 1" questions and all the old theories get dredged up like Taimandred, 2 souls, etc etc...

Just thought I'd let you all know I still believe in this :cool:

[Terez]

Every board needs a few nutters, I suppose...

[the silent speaker]

If this board had a few nutters, where would the rest of us be?

[Terez]

Big difference between an HCFF and a nutter. ;)