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View Full Version : Another Take on Gawyn


One Armed Gimp
07-01-2010, 12:29 PM
First some relevant quotes:

Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future. She had never seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future.

Him kneeling while she cupped his head in her hands.

Twice, right on top one another, she dreamed of taking him by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time, she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily.

In another he began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.

In a vast chamber Gawyn walks toward her barefoot over broken glass leaving a trail of blood.

She stands at fork in road. Gawyn rides up not seeing her. One road leads to violent death, the other, long life. Down one road they marry, the other, not. Gawyn smiles and chooses.

Obviously these are all open to interpretation, the first comes from Min and the remainder from Egwene.

I believe that these mostly relate to Gawyn's decision to leave the Younglings and go for Egwene. I also think that the two options seen by Min and the two paths in Eqwene's dream are one and the same.

Had Gawyn not gone to rescue Egwene, I would say there is a good chance she would have died. With Elaida gone and the White Tower having been attacked, both sides would have seen the need to move forward and beyond this seperation. I could easily see the rebels trying to make amends. At this point, Egwene becomes the figurehead she was meant to be and takes a fall.

I believe the walking across glass, the bowing or breaking her neck and the split paths have already been fulfilled by Gawyn's desertion of his men. Using this interpretation, the life of violence has already been avoided

Egwene is now making some big demands of Gawyn, especially in terms of trust. I believe that the dream of Egwene taking Gawyn by his shoulders could be fulfilled by this. As it stands now, she is the stronger of the two in many ways, and Gawyn is starting to realize that.

Interpreting the visions and dreams in that manner, makes it a near certainty that the long life and marriage is the route he is going down. We can not be certainty as dreaming is not a certain thing, only a probable thing.

Yes, this stems from my dislike of the Gawyn Killing Rand theory, and is one of the holes I see in said theory.

Any nit-picks, errors, disagreements, agreements, comments?

nameless
07-01-2010, 10:24 PM
Everyone (myself included) assumes that the "if/then" prophecies refer to the same choice in Gawyn's life, but there's no reason there couldn't be two or more different branching points.

One Armed Gimp
07-02-2010, 02:34 PM
Everyone (myself included) assumes that the "if/then" prophecies refer to the same choice in Gawyn's life, but there's no reason there couldn't be two or more different branching points.

There maybe future branches and choices he comes to, but as far as this one is concerned it is over and done with. He choose the long life and marriage with Egwene.

nameless
07-02-2010, 04:25 PM
Right, but you don't actually know that. You're saying it because it seems to make sense, and I agree with you, but there's no definitive proof that the events that played out between rebel and Tower Aes Sedai fulfilled that vision as opposed to, say, the kneeling at her feet/breaking her neck fork, and the death/marriage fork hasn't happened yet.

FelixPax
07-02-2010, 07:10 PM
I not sure if those Egwene Dream Foretellings have been fulfilled or not yet. I'm leaning towards "no". I suspect Egwene might be captured again, as I think Elayne will be soon. However, I do think your particular interpretation has good merit and decent chance of occurring.


One other weakness why I dislike the 'Gawyn Will Kill Rand' theory, is it willing disregards the need for 'salvation' when Rand finally dies the first time. How will the worlds gain salvation by Rand's death? Or Rand blinding everyone with Light(ning) at dawn?

"And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide...

Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation."

The Great Hunt, Header





I believe that these mostly relate to Gawyn's decision to leave the Younglings and go for Egwene.

What do you think is going to happen to the Younglings, their role in the story after the Tower reunited?

Gawyn was their leader, will he remain their leader?



Egwene is now making some big demands of Gawyn, especially in terms of trust. I believe that the dream of Egwene taking Gawyn by his shoulders could be fulfilled by this. As it stands now, she is the stronger of the two in many ways, and Gawyn is starting to realize that.

Where does Gawyn and his Younglings fit within the structure of the White Tower and the Aes Sedai armies, after the combining of arms?

Its not as if Egwene needs Gawyn to lead Tar Valon's armies. She already has a proven Great Captain in the person of Gareth Bryne in that position, whom she trusts.

Stay with Egwene or join Elayne? Where is Gawyn's heart & loyalty now? Support Egwene and the Dragon Reborn in war, or will he side with a man who I suspect is now seriously questioning his own support of the Dragon Reborn, Lord Davram Bashere?

What is Mesaana's purpose to stay within the White Tower after the Black Ajah basically all took flight to some other place? Does she have other plans aimed towards Egwene al'Vere? Ditto, Elayne in Caemlyn.

Mesaana & Demandred are partners in a faction, why wouldn't they continue their few common plans aimed towards both Egwene & Elayne? They already worked together in a prior kidnapping attempt in Cairhien, in taking Rand.

GonzoTheGreat
07-03-2010, 05:26 AM
Perhaps Gawyn actually is the DO, and Shadar Haran is just a big red herring to distract the Chosen from the fact that they've become irrelevant. It would be entirely in character for Egwene to fall in love with Ultimate Evil without even noticing it.

greatwolf
07-03-2010, 06:05 AM
I not sure if those Egwene Dream Foretellings have been fulfilled or not yet. I'm leaning towards "no". I suspect Egwene might be captured again, as I think Elayne will be soon. However, I do think your particular interpretation has good merit and decent chance of occurring.


I agree with most of what you're saying here Felix. My nitpicking's got to do with your sig though this is entirely the wrong forum. The principle of linking does not allow anyone to draw past their limit, hence using two women with Callandor puts a safety valve on what Rand can draw, so there's no way they'll die killing all shadowspawn.

Just thought you should know. :)

greatwolf
07-03-2010, 06:14 AM
Perhaps Gawyn actually is the DO, and Shadar Haran is just a big red herring to distract the Chosen from the fact that they've become irrelevant. It would be entirely in character for Egwene to fall in love with Ultimate Evil without even noticing it.

You seem to be missing the import of all this Gonzo. This viewing remains unclear because either path could be the future. For the pattern, it doesn't matter what happens to Egwene after this point,everything else will occur as planned. none of the other viewings that lead upto and beyond TG are affected by this. So if Egwene dies, it won't help the shadow win TG at all once she reaches that point. From here, she's irrelevant.

GonzoTheGreat
07-03-2010, 07:20 AM
My point is that Rand has to die fighting against the DO himself. If he falls to Gawyn, then either the Light has lost, or Gawyn is the actual Dark One, in which case the Light still has a chance.

Edited to add: perhaps I should also make this point in Terez' thread. It would seem to be more pertinent there.