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GonzoTheGreat
08-26-2010, 07:15 AM
Min sat back on her heels, folded her arms beneath her breasts and gave him a firm look. After a moment, she decided it was not working and sighed. "Itís Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Ashaíman. All the Ashaíman, I mean. Itís something you have to learn, but I donít know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You arenít going to like it at all."I suspect that most of you are familiar with this passage. We've debated it a few times before, after all. But now I have solved it.
Though . . . she did also have Semirhage's momentary look, that hint of anger, displayed at Sorilea's comment. When you could control a person's anger, you could control their other emotions as well. That was why she had focused so hard on teaching al'Thor to rein in his temper.She is teaching Rand and his followers self control.

Aside: the title of this chapter is nice, too. It is about Rand finally losing his hang up on hurting women, and refers back to how Elaida's AS did not manage to achieve that with their box.

WinespringBrother
08-26-2010, 08:04 AM
I suspect that most of you are familiar with this passage. We've debated it a few times before, after all. But now I have solved it.
She is teaching Rand and his followers self control.

Aside: the title of this chapter is nice, too. It is about Rand finally losing his hang up on hurting women, and refers back to how Elaida's AS did not manage to achieve that with their box.

Actually, Rand's problem was that he had too much self control, making him rigid and unemotional, especially when he was in the Void. Cadsuane's goal is clearly to help Rand regain his humanity and feelings.

GonzoTheGreat
08-26-2010, 08:31 AM
Rand also now and then had a rather bad temper, which allowed others to manipulate him.
His problem was not that he did not have feelings, but that he did not have them under control. Instead he bottled them up, and now and then they broke free and he erupted.

One Armed Gimp
08-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Quite a few of the other Asha'man seem to be fairly well in control, especially those who have been bonded. I doubt that this will be the solution to that particular riddle.

Ahumm
08-26-2010, 04:06 PM
I like the idea but I have thought for a long time that her lesson would have more to do with learning to work with an trust Aes Sedai. I mean there has been this huge rift for three thousand years in which men who can channel have been hunted down and severed so there's bound to be some hated, fear, and distrust to work through. In addition, for much if not all of the series Rand (and the Lews Therin voice) has been extremely untrusting most of the Aes Sedai and I believe it is pretty clear he will need to trust them for the Last Battle.

Enigma
08-26-2010, 05:27 PM
As Ahumm said the lesson could well be that Rand & the Asha'man have to learn to work with the Aes Sedai. Before she showed up Rand and especially the Asha'man were pretty much I don't trust or need any Aes Sedai.

Since she has shown up men and women have begun to link together and find out that they are stronger together that apart.

Were the viewing just about Rand I could go with the idea that she is to teach him emotional control but if I'm not mistaken Min said she was to teach him and the Asha'man and for the most part the Asha'man are not too mad.

The Seeker
08-27-2010, 01:23 AM
I dont think her lesson is to teach the Asha'man to trust Aes Sedai. While they are beginning to realize that they are stronger together than apart and that they are people and not just monsters, they are not learning it thanks to Cadsuane.

I also don't think its self control. He doesn't need to learn to control his emotions he needs to learn that they are there for a reason and not to control them. Although I don't think this is the lesson Cadsuane is going to teach either. I don't think she is exactly even close to a spot where she could pull that off.

Casabamelon
08-27-2010, 09:16 AM
I don't think Cadsuane is self-aware enough to know that Asha'man work better when working with Aes Sedai and vice versa.

I think (hope?) it's something more in line with forgiveness, specifically forgiving himself for the people who have died in his name. THAT is the burden that makes him want to be "hard". So if he can let go and forgive himself, and he can "bend like a reed in the wind" instead of snapping like... shoot... can't think of good way to finish that analogy, just wanted to drop a Dune quote.
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Ahumm
08-27-2010, 09:20 AM
Pencil lead would probably be a good way to end that one.

GonzoTheGreat
08-27-2010, 09:28 AM
I think (hope?) it's something more in line with forgiveness, specifically forgiving himself for the people who have died in his name. THAT is the burden that makes him want to be "hard". So if he can let go and forgive himself, and he can "bend like a reed in the wind" instead of snapping like... shoot... can't think of good way to finish that analogy, just wanted to drop a Dune quote.Problem with that idea is that there is no reason at all why this should be something which the Asha'man in general need to learn. Perhaps some few of them also have this particular hang up, but most of them don't seem to.

Ahumm
08-27-2010, 09:33 AM
It could also be something along the lines of "To be human and not just weapons." I mean we sort of see this with Rand at the end of tGS so who knows?

GonzoTheGreat
08-27-2010, 10:12 AM
Yes, but we also see the "to be human" bit with the Asha'man who is with Perrin, and who is wondering how his wife hurt herself.
Once again, this seems to be something specific to Rand, not to Asha'man in general.