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nameless
10-12-2010, 12:55 AM
The following questions for any other fans of The Dresden Files constitute major spoilers and should not be read by anyone who hasn't finished Changes, the most recent installment.

First of all, I've seen online that Butcher's been contracted to write like 7 more installments. Is there going to be a mysterious resurrection or will one of the other characters become the main focus? I could see it going either way... on the "resurrection" side there's all the unresolved plots involving Demonreach Island and Harry vs. The Outsiders, but on the "new main character" side is the fact that Harry's been growing significantly stronger every book and sooner or later it will be hard to keep up that kind of escalation. Butcher may decide to start over with Molly in order to avoid just writing a Superman story where the villains pose no real danger to the hero.

Secondly, who do you think shot Harry? At first I suspected Sanya because he flat out said he'd take Harry down if Mab turned him into a monster, but ambushes aren't really allowed for a Knight of the Cross. Right now my money's on the Seelie Court. Fix in particular, because his greatest fear is being murdered by the Winter Knight like all his predecessors. Marcone's a possibility but I think he's smart enough to understand that Harry under Mab's thrall is no real threat to his organization. Rudolph the Brown-nosed Cop Cop is enough of a douche to do it but he's got no real way of tracking Harry to Thomas' boat quickly enough to be the shooter.

I think the trick to figuring out who is figuring out why. Was he killed by an enemy of Winter because of his recent ascension, by one of his own enemies who figured it was their last chance to take him on before he got all his Unseelie superpowers, or by a brand-new enemy interested in claiming his recently acquired map of the Ways? Leanansidhe did say it was dangerous to have the thing.

Birgitte
10-12-2010, 09:02 PM
I don't think Butcher will switch to a new character. I suspect that Harry will just lose a lot of his friends and stop getting new abilities. There's not a whole lot more he can get anyway and he's got to stop sometime.

I am SO bitter about Harry and Murph not even getting one damn date. Damn you, Butcher. DAMN you to hell!

Zanguini
10-13-2010, 09:11 AM
Early plot, taken from Amazon.com German website[1]:

Harry Dresden forgot his own golden rule: magic - it can get a guy killed. Which didn't help when he clashed with unknown assailants intent on his murder. And though Harry's continued existence is now in some doubt, this doesn't mean Chicago's resident professional wizard can rest in peace. Trapped in a realm that is not quite here, yet not quite anywhere else, Harry learns that three of his loved ones are in mortal danger. Only by discovering his assailant's identity can he save his friends, bring criminal elements to justice, and move on before he becomes trapped in his own unending nightmare. It would just be easier if he knew which friends were at risk. And had a (working) crystal ball. And had access to his magic. Instead, he is unable to interact with the physical world - invisible and inaudible to all but the most specialised of magical talents. He's also far from the only silent presence roaming Chicago's alleys. Heck, he put some of them there himself. Only now, they're looking for payback.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/56/Ghost_Story_Butcher.jpg/200px-Ghost_Story_Butcher.jpg

nameless
10-13-2010, 01:11 PM
yeah, I've read the synopsis... but it's about ghosts, so it doesn't really resolve anything

Firseal
10-20-2010, 09:21 PM
Funny. No one has mentioned that Side Jobs is coming out at the end of the month?

Geez, guys. It isn't Ghost Story but Side Jobs is a compilation of most of the Dresden Files short stories written to date (I think it is literally missing two, and there are an awful lot of short stories in the Dresden Files, and a lot of folks haven't read any of them - not even Restoration of Faith, which is available online at Butcher's website), a couple new stories, and includes Backup, the novella which was I believe book 10.5 that was published as a limited online release and has Thomas as the narrator rather than Harry and a story where Marcone is the narrator.

For shame. Drool over the tidbits we know of Ghost Story, fine. But we'll have Side Jobs any day now. Literally.

jason wolfbrother
10-21-2010, 11:38 AM
Having just finished Changes I didn't realize, or even know that Side Jobs was coming out at all. :) Thx for the head's up :cool: :cool:

Mort
10-22-2010, 09:03 AM
Ooh, Side jobs are coming out soon? Sweet!

Does anyone know if the short story with Murph is in it? I read somewhere it's supposed to be 45 minutes after the end of Changes. Probably just when she gets back, finding him shot... That's as close to a sequal I can get, and I neeeeeds it! :)
The one with Marcone sounds interesting too, dunno if the one with Thomas is gonna be interesting though.

It was a huge bummer Murph and Dresden didn't get a chance, but I am confident Dresden is gonna resurrect somehow. Usually the story starts to suck as soon as the guy gets the girl though, or so have my experience with fiction been. Especially when it comes to TV. Maybe I just think the best stories are when there's a chase ;)

Question is if he'll still be the Winter Knight when/if he gets resurrected though, he might have lost all priveleges of that and the hold Mab had over him. But what is Dresden without obstacles? :)

Monkey
11-01-2010, 10:07 PM
Sidejobs is out and it was great to read, Murphy was the main character in Aftermath which follows 2 hrs after Harry was shot and his body has not yet been found.

Mort
11-04-2010, 04:53 AM
I borrowed Side Jobs from a friend. Pretty good. I read Aftermath (the Murphy story) first ;)

Havn't read Thomas's or Marcones's story yet though.

Overall it is pretty good, but as for the main story itself it doesn't contribute very much except for the Murphy story.

There is one story which involves the Alphas a bit. I think Dresden had a high peak of smartassery there, I love it! :)

Firseal
11-07-2010, 05:13 PM
I borrowed Side Jobs from a friend. Pretty good. I read Aftermath (the Murphy story) first ;)

Havn't read Thomas's or Marcones's story yet though.

Overall it is pretty good, but as for the main story itself it doesn't contribute very much except for the Murphy story.

There is one story which involves the Alphas a bit. I think Dresden had a high peak of smartassery there, I love it! :)

The one with Marcone came out in a different short story collection too close to Side Jobs, so it isn't included. One of I think two Dresden short stories which isn't.

On the other hand, the Thomas short story was released as an independant novella, published in a limited edition for a small publisher. Backup is not only a canon episode of the series, it is the only one of the pieces of Side Jobs which was released independant of any collection. Makes for an interesting read as it reveals A: the White Court are the good guys in a rather nasty quiet war (take a moment to imagine what that means about the bad guys) and B: Thomas is capable of using magic. Both very important bits of information.

Frenzy
12-24-2010, 01:23 PM
i'm not reading this thread, cuz i just started reading Storm Front.

yes yes i know. finally.

jason wolfbrother
12-25-2010, 11:33 AM
Spoiler for Frenzy...Harry is a Wizard ;)

Frenzy
12-25-2010, 02:17 PM
Brennan got Boba Fett's carbine for Christmas. Don't make me use it on you.

jason wolfbrother
12-26-2010, 08:01 AM
He's no good to me dead. What if he doesn't survive?

Frenzy
06-24-2011, 10:49 PM
i just finished reading Death Masks, Book 5 i think of The Dresden Files. A few observations:

1) i'm assuming the Denarians will come back later in the series, otherwise why set them up as the big bads?

2) This book has almost a Scooby Doo-type ending. Everything folded together very neatly, but Harry is apparently the only one smart enough to figure it out. Probably why he has a series of books written about him.

3) Unicorn mane rope. giggety.

4) i'm enjoying these books, but dammit how long until zombie dinosaurs show up?

jason wolfbrother
06-29-2011, 10:33 AM
1) Yup they show up again :)

2) 13 and counting ;)

3) "You gave him a quarter for the call?" "Yup" "You know a phone call costs more than that now right?" "Yup" :cool: :cool:

4) you just finished Death Masks (scarily I just finished that book this morning at work) so the next one is Blood Rites, then Dead Beat. Dead Beat has the zombie dinosaur :D

Frenzy
07-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Zombie Dinosaur was so frickin' awesome! Bob's right, size does matter. And here i thought he couldn't top killing a vampire with a paintball gun loaded with garlic/holy water rounds. :D

Just started Proven Guilty. It's pretty obvious where this one is going....

jason wolfbrother
07-19-2011, 10:53 PM
Just wait til you get to White Night :D :D :cool:

Mort
07-20-2011, 10:38 AM
I have a hard time remembering details from some of the books. There's been so many already I can't exactly say what happens in each of them :)

About a week until release date of Ghost right? Thank god it's a much shorter book than A Dance with Dragons, or I'd getting nothing done :)

Mort
07-29-2011, 01:23 PM
I just bought Ghost Story for Kindle PC. I fear it's almost too easy to buy stuff from there :D I gotta hold on to my wallet here :)

Frenzy
07-30-2011, 12:43 AM
reading White Knight now. Proven Guilty almost pissed me off when the van hit Mouse...

jason wolfbrother
07-30-2011, 12:59 PM
Lol yeah but Mouse got him back in the end :D That is one tough dog. You'll love him in Changes :) :cool: :cool:

Frenzy
07-31-2011, 08:09 PM
i like Mouse. It's weird, cuz he's mainly a plot device, same as Min. Yet i'm ambivalent at best towards Min.

jason wolfbrother
08-01-2011, 11:04 AM
I think the reason I like him is that he is smarter than every other character but everyone underestimates him. And because he is so damn cool ;) :cool: I really liked him in Small Favor and Turn Coat. But my favorite scene is still in Changes. You'll know it when you read it :D :cool:

Frenzy
08-02-2011, 01:57 AM
Jason, i found this on Deviant Art and it encapsulates how i feel about you right now. Public transit is going to suck balls once i get caught up on this series.

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/128/5/6/dresdeeeeeeeeen_by_sonopants-d3fx4uf.jpg

jason wolfbrother
08-03-2011, 11:04 PM
:cool: :cool: ROFLOL I almost feel bad too....almost ;) :p :cool: If you are lucky you might get caught up and read Ghost Story before me ;)

Birgitte
08-11-2011, 04:21 PM
So. Has anyone read Ghost Story yet? I thought it was good. Not as good as Changes, but, honestly, that's one tough act to follow.

Enigma
08-13-2011, 08:38 PM
So. Has anyone read Ghost Story yet? I thought it was good. Not as good as Changes, but, honestly, that's one tough act to follow.

I finished it last week. I sort of raced throught it and its a good book but it did not seem as good as Changes or even some other other more recent books in the series. I saw an interview with the author where he said it took him some time to adjust Harry's usual style of dealing with any obstacle by simply blowing it up. Perhaps it was the fact that Harry was forced to be more of an observer that perticipant that left me thinking the last few books were better.

I did enjoy it all the same and it was nice to see how Harry being missing effected the city and those he cared for. I think one of the coolest lines I reas was I think from Molly to Harry along the lines of 'he had no idea of how many terrible things had avoided the city because Harry was there and he had a reputation that screamed Don't mess with him.

Birgitte
08-16-2011, 12:31 PM
I finished it last week. I sort of raced throught it and its a good book but it did not seem as good as Changes or even some other other more recent books in the series. I saw an interview with the author where he said it took him some time to adjust Harry's usual style of dealing with any obstacle by simply blowing it up. Perhaps it was the fact that Harry was forced to be more of an observer that perticipant that left me thinking the last few books were better.

Yeah, I thought about that too. Harry is such an active guy usually that making him just watch seems awkward and a bit boring.

I did enjoy it all the same and it was nice to see how Harry being missing effected the city and those he cared for. I think one of the coolest lines I reas was I think from Molly to Harry along the lines of 'he had no idea of how many terrible things had avoided the city because Harry was there and he had a reputation that screamed Don't mess with him.

Yeah, me too. It was a good read and Harry is such a softie sometimes. And Molly's description of Harry is pretty awesome. Murphy was pretty freaky in this book though.

Fordan
08-16-2011, 02:59 PM
I finished it last week. I sort of raced throught it and its a good book but it did not seem as good as Changes or even some other other more recent books in the series. I saw an interview with the author where he said it took him some time to adjust Harry's usual style of dealing with any obstacle by simply blowing it up. Perhaps it was the fact that Harry was forced to be more of an observer that perticipant that left me thinking the last few books were better.

Ghost Story was really about fleshing out the secondary characters and exploring Harry's motivtions more than your typical Dresden Files, so I'd probably put it as an middle-of-the-road Dresden book for story & plot, but wow, do the secondary characters shine. Molly was just incredible in this book. Kind of the Crossroads of Twilight for Dresden in doing things that needed doing for the series, but more readable. :D

Enigma
08-16-2011, 03:20 PM
It will be interesting to see if Harry's approach to things will change now from shoot first and shoot hardest to take a deep breath and thing about things. He was kind of forced to plan what he was doing but even then he nearly destroyed himself blasting away with memories so that he was nearly gone by the end.

Harry has been getting more and more powerful over the years but this could be the next step where we have Harry the magical thug become Harry the planner. If he was able to become more of a chest master backed up by a lot of raw strength then he really would be a force to be reckoned with.

Not to mention I recall a scene where Lash told Harry that his preceptions limited his abilities and he would have to shed his mortality to gain some of the powers the fallen had. I have not read all the Dresden books so I'm not sure if the author goes into the whole forshadowing thing the way RJ did.

Lastly Molly seems like she is on the slipperly slope with some of her actions and I saw a youtube interview with the author where he hinted that there could be consequences for her actions.

Frenzy
08-16-2011, 10:22 PM
nice Freudian typo in there, Enigma. :D

Birgitte
08-17-2011, 12:02 PM
It will be interesting to see if Harry's approach to things will change now from shoot first and shoot hardest to take a deep breath and thing about things. He was kind of forced to plan what he was doing but even then he nearly destroyed himself blasting away with memories so that he was nearly gone by the end.

Harry has been getting more and more powerful over the years but this could be the next step where we have Harry the magical thug become Harry the planner. If he was able to become more of a chest master backed up by a lot of raw strength then he really would be a force to be reckoned with

Ooooo.... Good point. That'd be neat.

And Jim Butcher definitely knows how to do foreshadowing.

Oh, and Harry can master my chest anytime, ifyaknowwhatImean ;)

Fordan
08-20-2011, 04:16 PM
Ooooo.... Good point. That'd be neat.

And Jim Butcher definitely knows how to do foreshadowing.

Oh, and Harry can master my chest anytime, ifyaknowwhatImean ;)

Did you mean foreshadowing or Star Wars jokes? :D

What foreshadowing were you referring to? There really aren't a lot of long-term plots in Dresden to foreshadow extensively... You have Lash (who's apparently still kicking), you have the mystery of Cowl and the Black Council, and there was a bit of stuff around Morgan and his history as it relates to Dresden's history, but other than that, I think I must be missing a lot of the foreshadowing. Part of the structure of Dresden is the individual casebooks aren't tightly interlinked.

Mort
08-20-2011, 06:52 PM
Oh, and Harry can master my chest anytime, ifyaknowwhatImean ;)

Should we put down August as Birgittes time of heat? :) Two posts in a row now (that I've spotted), can't be a coincidence :)



You have Lash (who's apparently still kicking), you have the mystery of Cowl and the Black Council, and there was a bit of stuff around Morgan and his history as it relates to Dresden's history, but other than that, I think I must be missing a lot of the foreshadowing. Part of the structure of Dresden is the individual casebooks aren't tightly interlinked.

I can't remember who Lash is. Help?

Frenzy
08-20-2011, 11:19 PM
The shadow-copy of Lasciel living in Harry's brain since he picked up the blackened denarius before little Harry Carpenter got it

Enigma
08-21-2011, 09:30 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts on the identity of the angel that influenced Harry in Changes to take his own life? Lash appeared to die when she took one for Harry, he certainly lost the ability to use hellfire. On the other hand Lasciel is trapped in the coin and my understanding was that she was powerless unless someone picked up the coin.

nameless
08-21-2011, 03:29 PM
Did you mean foreshadowing or Star Wars jokes? :D

What foreshadowing were you referring to? There really aren't a lot of long-term plots in Dresden to foreshadow extensively... You have Lash (who's apparently still kicking), you have the mystery of Cowl and the Black Council, and there was a bit of stuff around Morgan and his history as it relates to Dresden's history, but other than that, I think I must be missing a lot of the foreshadowing. Part of the structure of Dresden is the individual casebooks aren't tightly interlinked.

There's a lot of long-term plant and payoff, which is similar to foreshadowing but not quite the same. We still don't know how Bianca got that magic knife, who has Thorned Namshiel's coin, and a whole bunch of other dangling mysteries that will presumably end up being related to a black council plot that actually impacts the story somehow.

ETA: I'm not 100% on this, but I think that demon whispering in Harry's ear was He Who Walks Behind. Harry has been marked by the Walker's shadow since the start of the series, after all.

Fordan
08-22-2011, 12:40 AM
Guess we're ok with Ghost Story spoilers?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the identity of the angel that influenced Harry in Changes to take his own life? Lash appeared to die when she took one for Harry, he certainly lost the ability to use hellfire. On the other hand Lasciel is trapped in the coin and my understanding was that she was powerless unless someone picked up the coin.

My take is that Lash is still in Harry's brain based on the end of Ghost Story with Demonreach's reference to the "parasite" that helped keep his body alive while his soul was on walkabout. While she did take a psychic bullet for Harry, she lives in his brain, and it's already well-established in the series that wizards can heal most anything with time.


ETA: I'm not 100% on this, but I think that demon whispering in Harry's ear was He Who Walks Behind. Harry has been marked by the Walker's shadow since the start of the series, after all.

Is he one of the Fallen? My impression was that he was just a really powerful resident of the Nevernever of the type typically referred to as demons in the series, whereas it'd have to be one of the actual enemies of God to allow for the intervention we see in Ghost Story due to "cheating." I also don't see HWWB as evil as such, just massively amoral such as we see with other residents of the Nevernever.

Might be misremembering; I'm up to White Knight in my reread/relisten to the series. I also picked up the Dresden Files RPG books since they look interesting for back story. Now I just need to get into RPGs. :)


Edit: I don't think it's the Blackened Denarii; taking up a coin is an act of free will that would allow them to lie without triggering the cheating clause. That should let Lasciel/Lash lie to him, and have we seen the nickleheads able to interact with anyone before their coin is picked up (meaning it couldn't be any of the others)?

nameless
08-22-2011, 12:26 PM
He's one of the Outsiders, and they normally can't influence the mortal world without invitation by a mortal, but he did mark Harry way back when and Ghost Story makes it clear that he's actually a skilled schemer/manipulator as well as being the one of the Outsiders' best hitters.

Enigma
08-23-2011, 06:02 AM
That should let Lasciel/Lash lie to him, and have we seen the nickleheads able to interact with anyone before their coin is picked up (meaning it couldn't be any of the others)?

Well the they did try to kill Harry before so I guess if one of the fallen can go grevious bodily harm to you if not outright murder they can also give you a few falsehoods.

The difference might be that they are acting through their host who for what ever reason allowed a fallen angel to take over the driver's seat in their body. One could argue that its the host that is doing the deed by abrograting responsiblity i.e. letting the fallen control them.

Before anyone say that the human host looses control did not one of the knights once serve as a host to a fallen but gave up their coin. That suggests that free will remains no matter how the fallen might try to hide the option from the host.

Fordan
08-23-2011, 05:00 PM
He's one of the Outsiders, and they normally can't influence the mortal world without invitation by a mortal, but he did mark Harry way back when and Ghost Story makes it clear that he's actually a skilled schemer/manipulator as well as being the one of the Outsiders' best hitters.

OK, but would HWWB's intervention trigger the archangel's ability to intervene due to cheating? My impression was that it needed to be one of their opposite numbers, a fallen angel or the Prince of Darkness, in order for them to be able to intervene, but that's just my impression from my listen to the audiobook of Ghost Story, and audiobooks make it challenging to go back and double-check. My current belief is that it is a new entity who whispered in his ear and may be the introduction of a new nemesis, especially if you have a recovering shadow of a redeemed fallen angel (Lash) in his head to give advice/exposition. Or it may have been just a generic fallen angel designed to keep the plot moving; Ghost Story is much much more about character development than story.

HWWB is interesting, especially the question of whether Justin called him up and set him on Harry when he ran or whether Justin was acting under HWWB's control in what he did with Harry all along. But this whispering doesn't seem like his style.

Before anyone say that the human host looses control did not one of the knights once serve as a host to a fallen but gave up their coin. That suggests that free will remains no matter how the fallen might try to hide the option from the host.

The Knights of the Cross do their best in Death Masks not to kill the Denarians because their host does have the choice to relinquish their coins and seek redemption, which would also support this. And also means that their actions would be unlikely to constitute cheating.

Frenzy
03-27-2012, 01:31 PM
HWWB, and Outsiders in general, are described as big bad heavy hitters. The end of Ghost Story made a concerted effort to show just how freaking powerful Uriel is. So yes, i think HWWB "cheating" would be enough to let Uriel cheat too.

On another note, now that i'm all caught up in the Dresdenverse.... AAAUUUUGH!!! No more new Dresden!!! :(

Mort
03-29-2012, 04:55 PM
I've tried finding out when the next book (Cold Days) gets released but havn't found out anything yet. If Butcher keeps his schedule for all the other books, there should be another one sometime this summer, or early fall. Anyone heard anything I havn't?

I talked a few minutes with a friend of mine about the series and I was painfully aware I've forgotten a lot of the key plot lines, stuff you need to know before next book etc. Gotta go find me a summary or something and brush up on stuff.

eht slat meit
03-29-2012, 06:16 PM
I've tried finding out when the next book (Cold Days) gets released but havn't found out anything yet. If Butcher keeps his schedule for all the other books, there should be another one sometime this summer, or early fall. Anyone heard anything I havn't?


Last two mentions on his official website appear to be one in April-11 that puts it in Fall 2012, and a later comment in December-11 that said he'd start working on it in early 2012, with no mention of a finish date. Another site puts it on January 13, 2013, but not sure what their source is.

On the upside, apparently he's got an anthology of short stories called "Dangerous Women" coming out, including some DF characters. 'Ooorah!

Dragon Thief
06-05-2012, 12:15 AM
His website forum have a quote where he said his initial manuscript was due on July 1 to the publisher. Assuming that means first draft, I'd say a November/December-ish release date is reasonable.

Seeker
06-07-2012, 06:10 PM
Ooooh!

I love the Dresden Files. Quite possibly the best fantasy series on the market today. The complex plots, the interesting characters, Murphy, the whip-smart dialogue, the beautifully described action scenes, the hilarious moments, Murphy, the splendid mix of science and sorcery, Harry's wacky pets, Murphy and the Blue Beetle.

Jim Butcher, I tip my hat to you.

You are a genius.

Wait... Did I mention Murphy?

Ieyasu
07-10-2012, 01:25 AM
I started this series a few days ago because of this thread. I just finished the 4th one.

Birgitte
07-10-2012, 04:58 PM
I started this series a few days ago because of this thread. I just finished the 4th one.

hehehe... That's awesome.

Mort
11-12-2012, 06:01 AM
Cold Days is released in just 15 days!

In the mean time, why don't you read chapter 1 (http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/cold-days-14/cold-days-ch-1) and chapter 2 (http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/cold-days-14/cold-days-chapter-2) on Jim Butchers website? :)

Mort
11-13-2012, 04:19 PM
And now chapter 3 (http://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2012/14-to-14) is available!

Mort
11-27-2012, 08:06 AM
Just got Cold Days to my Ipad. But I have to work for a few hours. But THEN! :D

Jokeslayer
12-02-2012, 01:30 PM
Anybody else finished Cold Days yet? (Ridiculously tiny spoiler I probably don't have to bother spoilering) I assumed I must have forgotten something at the end, but a quick lurk at Jim Butcher's site forum suggests I hadn't and nobody else quite knows what's going on either.

Mort
12-02-2012, 03:50 PM
Havn't finished it yet. My kindle App says I'm about 70 % done. Havn't gone full retard on reading it through :)

Jokeslayer
12-02-2012, 05:36 PM
I was totally planning to be a mature grown-up and read it a bit at a time around the other stuff I have to do but nah, read it in one sitting instead.

Mort
12-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Haha, how long did it take? Granted, Butcher's books are easy reads, but I am not that fast a reader that I can plow a 500 page book in one sitting. I wouldn't want to even. I get restless after a bit and need to take a break and do something else.

Jokeslayer
12-03-2012, 01:59 AM
I think about 6 hours, and I probably stopped for lunch or the bathroom a couple of times.

Mort
12-03-2012, 12:08 PM
I think about 6 hours, and I probably stopped for lunch or the bathroom a couple of times.

Damn, that's fast. I dunno how long it took me, but probably twice that, at least.

I don't know what you mean by your spoiler. Missed something?

Jokeslayer
12-03-2012, 01:01 PM
How is Molly eligible to become Winter Lady? Being trained by Lea doesn't seem like it should be enough, nor being Harry's apprentice and then Harry becoming Winter Knight (is she even still his apprentice? I don't remember). Which leaves either that she has some connection to the fairies through her family, presumably her mother, or whatever she did with the svartalves. So I thought I must have missed something about one of those, but a lot of people seem satisfied with the apprentice explanation, so I guess I didn't miss anything. But I still don't find that a good explanation.

Mort
12-03-2012, 03:39 PM
How is Molly eligible to become Winter Lady? Being trained by Lea doesn't seem like it should be enough, nor being Harry's apprentice and then Harry becoming Winter Knight (is she even still his apprentice? I don't remember). Which leaves either that she has some connection to the fairies through her family, presumably her mother, or whatever she did with the svartalves. So I thought I must have missed something about one of those, but a lot of people seem satisfied with the apprentice explanation, so I guess I didn't miss anything. But I still don't find that a good explanation.

Oh that, yeah. It felt a bit, weird. Didn't bother me much though.

Jalyn
12-13-2012, 12:36 AM
I'm not at all sure how what you've mentioned above makes sense mythos-wise, but arc wise it's interesting. Dresden keeps thinking that he's got a handle on who the big bad is, but it keeps shifting on him (and us.) Vampires are the great evil! No, it's a shadow council, no it's fairies, no it really IS vampires! Wait, it's who we say here. I can't decide if Butcher has no idea where he's going from book to book or if he understands perfectly his end game and means to keep us guessing. Then again, I've read each of these exactly once, often via audiobook (which are awesome if you like audiobooks) while doing things that actually take concentration so I may have missed major foreshadowing items.

Jokeslayer
12-13-2012, 03:37 AM
I'm not at all sure how what you've mentioned above makes sense mythos-wise, but arc wise it's interesting. Dresden keeps thinking that he's got a handle on who the big bad is, but it keeps shifting on him (and us.) Vampires are the great evil! No, it's a shadow council, no it's fairies, no it really IS vampires! Wait, it's who we say here. I can't decide if Butcher has no idea where he's going from book to book or if he understands perfectly his end game and means to keep us guessing. Then again, I've read each of these exactly once, often via audiobook (which are awesome if you like audiobooks) while doing things that actually take concentration so I may have missed major foreshadowing items.

My feeling is he knows what he's heading towards now, but I wouldn't buy that he has done from the start (I don't actually know if anyone is trying to sell that though). I would guess the main enemy is the black council and the outsiders, though who is on top in that relationship (either the Black Council is using the outsiders as a stick to hit people with to further some other goal, or the Black Council think they're doing that but actually the Outsiders just want to get Inside). There's a few players left to shake out (dragons with unspellable names, the Denarians, maybe Mavra, probably others I'm forgetting)

Frenzy
12-22-2012, 01:09 PM
Still reading it. Still giggling at the Whatsup Dock.

Birgitte
12-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Still reading it. Still giggling at the Whatsup Dock.

The only reason I took more than a few hours to read Cold Days is because I had to go to work and I laughed out loud so many times at that book. Especially when it comes to the Tao of Pratchett.

eht slat meit
12-31-2012, 08:14 PM
I can't decide if Butcher has no idea where he's going from book to book or if he understands perfectly his end game and means to keep us guessing. Then again, I've read each of these exactly once, often via audiobook (which are awesome if you like audiobooks) while doing things that actually take concentration so I may have missed major foreshadowing items.

I think he's got it mapped out. Dresden's perspective, as you described it, fits perfectly. He's former small potatoes being shifted further and further out of his depth with each book. I'm a bit surprised that Cold Days is already introducing Outsiders, but what I'm reading between the lines suggests that there's far deeper waters to troll yet, and all of his friends will be going down there with him.

Enigma
01-01-2013, 05:08 PM
I think the author even said that because we read the book from Harry's pov he can be wrong about things and he is a bit like WOT Mat in that he lies to himself about things.

I picked up the recent books first and am no starting from the begining with the first two done but that way its easy to see how much Harry has powered up over the series. Even pre Winter Knight gig Harry in at the beginng of changes had a lot more power that Harry book 1. It makes sense that he as he keeps peeling back layers of the onion he things this is it, finally I've figured who is pulling the strings where as in reality he is still working his way up the food chain and is yet to find who exactly is behing all the bad things that are going on.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-07-2014, 09:16 AM
So, I've reread the entire series from start to the end of Skin Game. After finishing Skin Game, it's been bothering me... there's been a tone change since Changes. And Butters becoming a Jedi Knight of the Cross feels a bit like Jumping the Shark. I mean, I loved it, because I'm a total geek, but it felt ham-handed.

He seems to be going more silly and fairy-tale-ish, with more gods and bigger monsters than before. It's hard to put my finger on it.

GonzoTheGreat
08-07-2014, 09:35 AM
Spoiler:
The appropriate tag is "spoiler" not "spoilers".

Gilshalos Sedai
08-07-2014, 10:49 AM
Gracias.

I must be tired. Couldn't figure out for the life of me why it wasn't working.