Terez
07-01-2008, 09:15 AM
Three important quotes from the Budapest transcripts (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dcjspjqg_101f6s22v73&hl=en) (they have been missing from the web for a while, but Tam sent me the audios, and thanks to Sare and Gonzo the transcripts are up now) that can't be found elsewhere:
Ba'alzamon's eyes and mouth of fire are a progression of the saa. This is common sense but nice to have confirmed:
Q: What about the saa? You wrote in a chapter, that there is a black hole before Moridin's eyes.
RJ: No, no, in the eyes. It is not before. In the eyes, inside the eyes.
Q: And can see through? (-?- unsure about this sentence. -?-)
RJ: It depends. When you are using the True Power. At first, when you begin using the True Power, there's nothing there. Nothing in the eyes. After you've used it for a while, you begin to have a black speck floating across your eyes, when you're using it.
Q: And then you see, other observers can see it.
RJ: No, you don't see it. You don't actually see it.
Q: I think it was the chapter when Moridin was observing with a cloak of fancloth. His vision was blurred by a rain of black spots.
Q: But it didn't affect his vision.
RJ: It didn't affect his vision. You're aware of it, but it's not like there is blackness between you, because it gets thicker and thicker and thicker and you get to a point where if you've used it long enough you get a steady stream even if you're not connected. And you are then on the road, at that point, inevitably, to becoming what Ishamael was. Because these are stigmata, if you will. These saa are stigmata caused by a linkage to the Dark One. And eventually the effect is to become all fire eyes. You no longer have eyes visible to other people. If they're looking into your eyes, they seem to be looking into caverns of flame that stretch to infinity. And when you open your mouth they see another cavern of flame that stretches to infinity. Because you've reached at that point the ultimate level of this usage and quite possibly, if you've at this point not been granted immortality, you're on your way to death. Not madness, but you're on your way to death. So it's sort of a race. The Dark One has given you this boon, but if you use it very much, then you'd better hope he is willing to give you another boon, because if he doesn't give you the second boon then you're dead. Some of the Forsaken have expressed discomfort with the fact that Ishamael and Moridin are so free with using the One Power.
One Oath on the Oath Rod would not cause the ageless appearance, and RJ seems to imply that only THREE Oaths would:
Q: Is it true that the Three Oaths is why Aes Sedai [mumble mumble] I thought it might be because, when you try to avoid the Three Oaths, you get a lot of dangerous situation [mumble mumble]...
RJ: No…now you have to be careful with this, because this is a kind of spoiler for people that haven’t read far enough, but the Oath Rod is what was in the Age of Legends called a binder. It was used on criminals. If you committed a violent act, or some sort of criminal act, with a binder, someone who could channel could be constrained from ever doing that again, and the result of having three of the Oaths, is the ageless appearance. One would not produce agelessness, but even one would shorten life, and three of them put a cap on Aes Sedai’s lives, on how long they could live.
And finally, RJ confirmed that, if women had participated at the Strike, that saidar would have been tainted as well as saidin:
Q: Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?
RJ: Because there were only men in the party that made up the party that made up the Strike at Shayol Ghul, that were setting the seals. In the act of setting the seals, there was a backblast that affected the people doing this. As I pointed out in something…I wrote a piece called The Strike at Shayol Ghul…there was a great division at the time – I don’t know if all of you have read it…or have none of you read it?
Qs: Yes, yes.
RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [It was actually the “Fateful Concord” – Terez], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.
He implies that he answered that in The Strike at Shayol Ghul, but he didn't - this is all we get from that:
Speculation of the wilder sort is rife among some who call themselves historians, and the discovery of this material has resulted in the expected from the usual quarters. Would the great sa'angreal have proven effective used as Latra Posae desired? Had the seals been placed by a circle comprised of men and women together, might the men, or even saidin itself, have been protected in some fasion from the Dark One's counter stroke? Or would saidar have been tainted as well? The last possibility is enough to curdle the coldest blood, yet the fact is that events transpired as they transpired, and such speculation is no more than a fireside game to frighten the gullible. Those I speak of will know who I mean.
Ba'alzamon's eyes and mouth of fire are a progression of the saa. This is common sense but nice to have confirmed:
Q: What about the saa? You wrote in a chapter, that there is a black hole before Moridin's eyes.
RJ: No, no, in the eyes. It is not before. In the eyes, inside the eyes.
Q: And can see through? (-?- unsure about this sentence. -?-)
RJ: It depends. When you are using the True Power. At first, when you begin using the True Power, there's nothing there. Nothing in the eyes. After you've used it for a while, you begin to have a black speck floating across your eyes, when you're using it.
Q: And then you see, other observers can see it.
RJ: No, you don't see it. You don't actually see it.
Q: I think it was the chapter when Moridin was observing with a cloak of fancloth. His vision was blurred by a rain of black spots.
Q: But it didn't affect his vision.
RJ: It didn't affect his vision. You're aware of it, but it's not like there is blackness between you, because it gets thicker and thicker and thicker and you get to a point where if you've used it long enough you get a steady stream even if you're not connected. And you are then on the road, at that point, inevitably, to becoming what Ishamael was. Because these are stigmata, if you will. These saa are stigmata caused by a linkage to the Dark One. And eventually the effect is to become all fire eyes. You no longer have eyes visible to other people. If they're looking into your eyes, they seem to be looking into caverns of flame that stretch to infinity. And when you open your mouth they see another cavern of flame that stretches to infinity. Because you've reached at that point the ultimate level of this usage and quite possibly, if you've at this point not been granted immortality, you're on your way to death. Not madness, but you're on your way to death. So it's sort of a race. The Dark One has given you this boon, but if you use it very much, then you'd better hope he is willing to give you another boon, because if he doesn't give you the second boon then you're dead. Some of the Forsaken have expressed discomfort with the fact that Ishamael and Moridin are so free with using the One Power.
One Oath on the Oath Rod would not cause the ageless appearance, and RJ seems to imply that only THREE Oaths would:
Q: Is it true that the Three Oaths is why Aes Sedai [mumble mumble] I thought it might be because, when you try to avoid the Three Oaths, you get a lot of dangerous situation [mumble mumble]...
RJ: No…now you have to be careful with this, because this is a kind of spoiler for people that haven’t read far enough, but the Oath Rod is what was in the Age of Legends called a binder. It was used on criminals. If you committed a violent act, or some sort of criminal act, with a binder, someone who could channel could be constrained from ever doing that again, and the result of having three of the Oaths, is the ageless appearance. One would not produce agelessness, but even one would shorten life, and three of them put a cap on Aes Sedai’s lives, on how long they could live.
And finally, RJ confirmed that, if women had participated at the Strike, that saidar would have been tainted as well as saidin:
Q: Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?
RJ: Because there were only men in the party that made up the party that made up the Strike at Shayol Ghul, that were setting the seals. In the act of setting the seals, there was a backblast that affected the people doing this. As I pointed out in something…I wrote a piece called The Strike at Shayol Ghul…there was a great division at the time – I don’t know if all of you have read it…or have none of you read it?
Qs: Yes, yes.
RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [It was actually the “Fateful Concord” – Terez], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.
He implies that he answered that in The Strike at Shayol Ghul, but he didn't - this is all we get from that:
Speculation of the wilder sort is rife among some who call themselves historians, and the discovery of this material has resulted in the expected from the usual quarters. Would the great sa'angreal have proven effective used as Latra Posae desired? Had the seals been placed by a circle comprised of men and women together, might the men, or even saidin itself, have been protected in some fasion from the Dark One's counter stroke? Or would saidar have been tainted as well? The last possibility is enough to curdle the coldest blood, yet the fact is that events transpired as they transpired, and such speculation is no more than a fireside game to frighten the gullible. Those I speak of will know who I mean.