Sitters

[The Seeker]

I wanted to know what everyone here thought about the Sitters both in the White Tower and the little tower. Why the young ones and any ideas on whose behind it????

[Weird Harold]

I wanted to know what everyone here thought about the Sitters both in the White Tower and the little tower. Why the young ones and any ideas on whose behind it????
The Wheel/Pattern is on a "Never Trust Anyone Over (a biological) Thirty" campaign.

It isn't just the "too young sitters, it's the governing forces of the entire planet that is becoming "youthful" -- Rand, Egwene, Tuon, Beslan (? new King of Altara,) Berelaine, the new King of Tear, et al.

[Terez]

Well, that would be a good explanation if there wasn't so much evidence that there's more to it than that.

Essentially, the Ajah Heads in the Tower, save the Red, made plans as soon as the Tower split to re-unify it, and they sent five Sitters to the rebels (all those who were Sitting at the time of the split, save Janya, who appears to have acted on her own - Takima, Saroiya, Varilin, Magla, and Faiselle). These five pushed for the too-young Sitters to be raised (as per Romanda's thoughts in Knife of Dreams) and the Ajah Heads pushed for the too-young Sitters in the Tower. This is so that, when the Tower re-unites, the two Halls can be merged again, pushing the younger Sitters to the side. The too-young Sitters haven't made any real impression so I see no reason to think they'll do it any other way, just because the Supergirls are young.

The five that were sent by the Ajah Heads almost always vote together in the Hall, especially on issues that they think are important concerning re-unification, such as the war vote and the Black Tower.

[Weird Harold]

Well, that would be a good explanation if there wasn't so much evidence that there's more to it than that.

Essentially, the Ajah Heads in the Tower, save the Red, made plans as soon as the Tower split to re-unify it, ...

What the Ajah Heads plan and what the Wheel weaves are two different things and they most likely will not agree -- I doubt that the Ajah heads plan(ned) on Egwene being the Amyrlin of a reunited Tower, but I think it's fairly clear that's what is going to happen.

[Terez]

Like I already said, there's nothing special about the too-young Sitters - none of them are very impressive or have been developed much by RJ with the exception of Delana - so it's doubtful they'll be kept as Sitters when the Tower re-unites just because some young people have come to power. Everything RJ has written on them indicates that they're placeholders.

[Nazbaque]

The Pattern forcing events is at best a background bigger picture sort of thing. Even if it caused the coincidence of nine too young Sitters there is another reason that was either Black Ajah influence or a scheme of Salidar Ajah Heads or perhaps it is as simple as the older candidates not being strong enough in either Power or will (we really don't know the basis on which each Ajah chooses their candidates) they might even be mentally exhausted as what they have thought as indestructable for 70+ years is crumbling in front of their eyes. Maybe it's everyone of those reasons acting as Pattern's tools.

Oh and btw: Isn't the new King of Tear well over thirty? He was already a Highlord in TDR IIRC.

[Ishara]

Didn't Callandor have a theory on the young sitters?

[irerancincpkc]

Yes. Here it is, I found it on Yuku. (http://theoryland.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/2128)

[Weird Harold]

Oh and btw: Isn't the new King of Tear well over thirty? He was already a Highlord in TDR IIRC.

He is described as "well into his middle years" so, yes, he's literally over thirty. He is however, as best as I can determine the youngest or near-youngest of the High Lords and/or other possible candidates for King of Tear.


"Never Trust Anyone Over Thirty" is a pop-culture reference rather than a literal dividing line for the youth movement in the WOT leadership. Many of the "too young sitters" aren't exactly young although with Slowing, they're mostly under biological-thirty despite their chronological ages.

Alliandre, the new Queen of Ghealdan is of similar age to King Darlin Sisnera of Tear, but she, too, is part of the Pattern's youth movement.

Whatever the Ajah Heads have planned for the "too young sitters" will be derailed by the Pattern's overall shift of younger, more flexible, people into positions of power.

[Terez]

The Pattern forcing events is at best a background bigger picture sort of thing. Even if it caused the coincidence of nine too young Sitters there is another reason that was either Black Ajah influence or a scheme of Salidar Ajah Heads or perhaps it is as simple as the older candidates not being strong enough in either Power or will (we really don't know the basis on which each Ajah chooses their candidates) they might even be mentally exhausted as what they have thought as indestructable for 70+ years is crumbling in front of their eyes. Maybe it's everyone of those reasons acting as Pattern's tools.
Again, all the evidence points, not to the Black Ajah, or the Salidar Heads, but to the Tower Heads being responsible for the entire too-young Sitters mystery.

Oh and btw: Isn't the new King of Tear well over thirty? He was already a Highlord in TDR IIRC.
Yes, he's probably well over 40, and he's not the only ruler that isn't young. Tenobia is in her 30's, and the youngest of the Borderland rulers by far. Roedran of Murandy - we have no reason to believe he's young. Alliandre is also in her 40's, apparently. We have no idea about the west coast rulers, other than the future possibility of Ituralde, who is not young.

Didn't Callandor have a theory on the young sitters?
That theory has been floating around for a while - it was laid out mostly on the FAQ, and I've seen it posted at Dragonmount (since Callie posted his). Spidy posted this (http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/3861) back in 2000. :D Callandor did of course put all the evidence together nicely, though...

[4Alethinos]

Now this is a fascinating thing. I had not noticed this trend, although I doubt Terez is surprised by my not noticing. hehe

I wonder if this is due to the forthcoming change in male channelers with the cleansing of the Taint on Saidin?

Youger rulers tend to be a little more flexible about dealing with change. ie the hidebound effect.

Nice observation, WH.

"Change is blowin' in the wind." :)

[Terez]

It was Egwene that made the observation in the first place, not WH...but of course Egwene is wrong about the too-young Sitters. :D