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Dewairah
11-10-2010, 08:03 PM
:)

WHat are your theories on where he's been and what he's been doing for the last 2 books?

Dewairah
11-10-2010, 09:15 PM
no one wonders what logain is doing or has any thoughts?

alleluia_cone
11-10-2010, 09:23 PM
no one wonders what logain is doing or has any thoughts?

Apparently it was more important to waste chapters on Elayne taking yet another throne, Matt discussing boots, and Alliandre cutting bandages than bothering with Logain.

My guess is he has been sitting around for most of the month, kind of like Rand and Egwene.

arioch
11-10-2010, 09:25 PM
My guess is he has been sitting around for most of the month, kind of like Rand and Egwene.

Exactly the opposite of what Rand's orders to the Asha'man he sent back to the Tower seems to imply.

alleluia_cone
11-10-2010, 09:27 PM
Exactly the opposite of what Rand's orders to the Asha'man he sent back to the Tower seems to imply.

Well, Rand also told Egwene he had a lot to do and no time to do it . . . then again, he could have been talking about boinking Min.

arioch
11-10-2010, 09:28 PM
Well, Rand also told Egwene he had a lot to do and no time to do it . . . then again, he could have been talking about boinking Min.

Thus depriving her of valuable cramming time for the finals, GEEZ

Dewairah
11-10-2010, 09:29 PM
Apparently it was more important to waste chapters on Elayne taking yet another throne, Matt discussing boots, and Alliandre cutting bandages than bothering with Logain.

My guess is he has been sitting around for most of the month, kind of like Rand and Egwene.

lol You're really ... "perturbed" by this last book/timeline issues arent you.

I say "perturbed" because Tam says I should be "shakespearian".

Caveatar
11-10-2010, 09:29 PM
no one wonders what logain is doing or has any thoughts?

...so I have very few thoughts that mean much. I also wondered about Logain but there is nothing I have seen in TOM to give a hint.
I hope he is having a large shipment of 'whupass' delivered for his next trip to the Black Tower.:)

alleluia_cone
11-10-2010, 09:34 PM
lol You're really ... "perturbed" by this last book/timeline issues arent you.

I say "perturbed" because Tam says I should be "shakespearian".

I admit, it has been eating at me for days. When I first read the book I was pleased with the Perrin and Mat portions quite a bit but then I realized that Egwene and Rand had just been pretty much sitting around the whole time with no explanation.

Rand keeps talking about how he has no time for dealing with the Black Tower and I'm sitting there thinking: "Really? What about the last 3 f**king weeks!"

And then we have Egwene asking Perrin where Rand is, as if it's some big mystery, and I'm screaming at the book: "Tear! Tear! Tear! Ask Nynaeve you useless innkeeper's daughter!"

Dewairah
11-10-2010, 09:48 PM
Dont worry. I'm sure all they were doing will be revealed in the next book so you've got nothing to worry about.

If not, well.. I'll send Brandon a strongly worded email on your behalf. :D

chillax

Leanne
11-10-2010, 10:32 PM
I understand all of the issues with Rand/Egwene seeming to be idle. However, going into TGS, we knew that one book had to be split into 3 books. This meant that Brandon had to make decisions about how to split it. Rand/Egwene were the major storylines for TGS and Perrin/Elayne for ToM. I think before everyone gets out of sorts about this, (oops, too late!) we should wait and see what happens in aMoL. Of course, I would guess that Brandon is able to explain some of your issues and put you at ease a bit. Let's try to give him the benefit of the doubt!

Squocka
11-11-2010, 12:57 AM
Yeah i hated the short chapters and the what happened for the last 30 days on the characters parts.

Rand and Egwene get fast forwarded 30 days with nothing happening while the others catch up seems like Rand should have just said meet me in a week and VErins letter to Mat could have been shorter.

As for Logain i'd forgotten what Rand even ordered him to do i thought he was with Ituralde but realised he wasn't

Squocka
11-11-2010, 12:58 AM
The last i remember is he is with Rand in TGS Prologue and is not ordered anywhere

etranger
11-11-2010, 06:14 AM
Logain may be in serious trouble. The last we heard of him is that he vanished in the night from the Black Tower with some of his most powerful supporters -- Donalo Sandomere, Welyn Kajima and Mezar Kuryn -- weeks before Androl's first PoV in ToM. We also know that at least Mezar Kuryn has since met an unfortunate fate.

This may lend itself to the interpretation that Logain and his allies have been captured by Taim and that it has been decided to reintroduce them now with their altered personalities.

Tarna's fate -- horrible as it is -- may also offer some hope though. If Logain and his allies were captured weeks ago one has to wonder why they were kept away for weeks when Tarna was turned overnight. Furthermore, while it's possible it probably wouldn't be easy at all to silently capture four powerful male channelers.

Which leads to Logain possibly not being captured but going on some mission of his own. Mezar Kuryn may have been captured when Logain sent him back to scout out why Travelling to the Black Tower wasn't possible anymore and/or to rally support to him.

I don't see what kind of weeks long mission this could have been when not even Rand seems to know of it as Rand seems to think Logain is at the Black Tower.

Another thing to wonder about is that even though Mezar Kuryn as well as Logain and the other two have bonded Aes Sedai who even seem to be living at the Black Tower nobody seems to consult them about the fate of their Asha'men.

The Angry Druid
11-11-2010, 09:43 AM
I admit, it has been eating at me for days. When I first read the book I was pleased with the Perrin and Mat portions quite a bit but then I realized that Egwene and Rand had just been pretty much sitting around the whole time with no explanation.

Rand keeps talking about how he has no time for dealing with the Black Tower and I'm sitting there thinking: "Really? What about the last 3 f**king weeks!"

And then we have Egwene asking Perrin where Rand is, as if it's some big mystery, and I'm screaming at the book: "Tear! Tear! Tear! Ask Nynaeve you useless innkeeper's daughter!"

I'm with you. The more I think about it, the worse it gets.

Despite all the nice moments, ToM is getting dangerously close to CoT for me. Heck, at least tPoD had a coherent theme and the characters didn't act so brazenly stupid or in direct contrast to what they said they'd do.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 11:00 AM
I'm with you. The more I think about it, the worse it gets.

Despite all the nice moments, ToM is getting dangerously close to CoT for me. Heck, at least tPoD had a coherent theme and the characters didn't act so brazenly stupid or in direct contrast to what they said they'd do.

For me, personally, it's a very, very mixed bag. There is some true greatness there mixed in with the incomprehensible.

Some scenes, especially nearly all of Perrin's, are wonderful. The wolves at Dragonmount I thought was stupendous. I thought the same about the Slayer fight. I would still have cut about 15-20% of the "fat" from his story but only for the purpose of expanding other things, namely, the Black Tower.

Elayne's storyline on the other hand is simply bloated to no purpose and wasteful to a criminal level. I don't see anybody naming her taking of Cairhien as among their favorite portions of the book and this could have all been done in the background, even offhandedly mentioned by Egwene in one sentence, and nobody would have cared. In truth, only the reunions were important and I suppose the fight against the Black Ajah if the medallion will become important later on. Still, 65-70% of her storyline should have been straight cut out of the book. She wasn't even in TGS and nobody cared; Brandon should have taken the hint.

Mat's storyline, on the other hand, was very compact and I thought done quite well. Very little needed to be cut; perhaps 5% to 10% or so. I had no issues with how he was handled in the book.

With respect to Rand and Egwene, I had no issue with how little they were mentioned in the book, but I do feel one of their chapters each should have been expanded drastically into information dumping grounds. For Egwene, this should have been "A Good Soup," for Rand, it should have been "A Testing." Both those chapters should have contained several vast paragraphs explaining what they had been doing for the past three weeks and why they didn't do certain things; for Rand, namely, dealing with the Seanchan or the Black Tower; for Egwene, contacting Cadsuane, dealing with the Seanchan, finding Rand, contacting the Borderland armies, etc.

Finally, other stuff should have been expanded all together. Much more Black Tower and Aes Sedai embassies; more Forsaken; more Seanchan; maybe a POV from a captured Aes Sedai damane or one of the Wise Ones; Nynaeve also (she faded too much into the background by the end of the book) and so on.

Basically, the groundwork was there for a great book and it only ended up being a good book; middling within the series as a whole. I still blame Jordan more than Brandon though, I figure most of these decisions were taken out of the writer's hands.

WinespringBrother
11-11-2010, 11:49 AM
I have a feeling that a large part of the problem was the three book split. When Brandon does his reread, he may realize the need (if he hasn't already) to fill in those week or two week gaps, and show what was happening off-screen to demonstrate that Rand and Egwene were not puttering around uselessly for that entire time. And Brandon did say he plans a few (maybe 5 IIRC) chapters for the Black Tower resolution in AMOL! Woot!

Servus Christi
11-11-2010, 11:53 AM
Rand keeps talking about how he has no time for dealing with the Black Tower and I'm sitting there thinking: "Really? What about the last 3 f**king weeks!"

Well, we don't really know what Rand's been up to. Egwene, aye for the most part, but Rand? Not as much. He's probably been doing something though beyond making amends for past mistakes on his part. And the Black Tower isn't going to be fixed over-night. He may indeed have had more pressing concerns.

As for Logain.. the dude just dropped off the map. He's obviously doing something for Rand.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 12:00 PM
I have a feeling that a large part of the problem was the three book split. When Brandon does his reread, he may realize the need (if he hasn't already) to fill in those week or two week gaps, and show what was happening off-screen to demonstrate that Rand and Egwene were not puttering around uselessly for that entire time. And Brandon did say he plans a few (maybe 5 IIRC) chapters for the Black Tower resolution in AMOL! Woot!

One hopes, although I find it hard to believe there could be anything more important than dealing with the Black Tower. And if he did do something else, why wasn't it mentioned? What possible reason could be put forth for not letting the reader know at this point? Was he messing with stash from Rhuidean and figuring it out? Was he preventing the people of the world from starving?

Was he working through the Kama Sutra with Min and Brandon had to censor it out?

Well, we don't really know what Rand's been up to. Egwene, aye for the most part, but Rand? Not as much. He's probably been doing something though beyond making amends for past mistakes on his part.

And why wasn't this "something" mentioned?

GonzoTheGreat
11-11-2010, 12:02 PM
He may have been making new Seals, to use in his coming attempt at getting rid of the DO.

WinespringBrother
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
One hopes, although I find it hard to believe there could be anything more important than dealing with the Black Tower. And if he did do something else, why wasn't it mentioned? What possible reason could be put forth for not letting the reader know at this point? Was he messing with stash from Rhuidean and figuring it out? Was he preventing the people of the world from starving?

Was he working through the Kama Sutra with Min and Brandon had to censor it out?



And why wasn't this "something" mentioned?

I know it isn't much (maybe it was added to lay in the groundwork for the AMOL chapters) but Rand did try and fail to visit the Black Tower, likely due to the same reasons Androl and Pevara couldn't travel (assumed to be a dreamspike). Hence, he sent Naeff to the Black Tower to spy.

ETA: And while this was mentioned on the day of or day before he went to the Field of Merrilor (not sure and don't have book in front of me), he may have done that earlier than when it was mentioned on screen.

Madgod
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
And why wasn't this "something" mentioned?

Maybe it was decided that what Rand/Egwene were doing gave too much information about what happens in the last book, so they decided to leave it out of TOM.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 12:07 PM
Maybe it was decided that what Rand/Egwene were doing gave too much information about what happens in the last book, so they decided to leave it out of TOM.

This is what I'm assuming at this point for my sanity. If it turns out we never find out what happened those three weeks I'll be somewhere north of pissed.

X.X.
11-11-2010, 12:32 PM
Logain, in looking for more peeps for the Last Battle Travelled to this place called Holl'y'wood where his ruggedly handsome looks earned him the chance to perform as an actor and achieve glory as an epic entertainer.

He'll show up in after TG to play in the theater adaptation of Loial's dragon reborn chronicles.

Servus Christi
11-11-2010, 01:19 PM
And why wasn't this "something" mentioned?

As Madgod said, it might be because it would give a little too much of a hint of what's coming in the next volume.

Squocka
11-15-2010, 10:12 PM
Logain may be in serious trouble. The last we heard of him is that he vanished in the night from the Black Tower with some of his most powerful supporters -- Donalo Sandomere, Welyn Kajima and Mezar Kuryn -- weeks before Androl's first PoV in ToM. We also know that at least Mezar Kuryn has since met an unfortunate fate.


Where is that reference is it in TOM and i missed it somehow.

Oneirist
11-15-2010, 11:43 PM
Androl mentions that in Working Leather while inspecting some of the Two Rivers recruits.

Squocka
11-18-2010, 08:14 PM
Thanks, I do remember that i guess i was just hopeing for something more concrete since we never have anything of Rand ever sending him back to the black Tower and prior to him leaving it was bring a whole bunch with you to Arad Doman.

I wrote up a list of numbers that Logain had with him but it was on Wotmania which is gone now and i dont remember but i think it was around 200. How many are still with Rand and how many at the BT seems from Androls POV that it sounds like 70 /30 at the BT are Bad and also most of the bad are higher ranked. at least thats what i gather.

LewsTherin10
11-19-2010, 10:56 AM
Has any one be raised to full Asha'man NOT staying in Taim's palace other than Logain and Rand's entourage? These guys were raised by Rand. It seems like Taim hasn't raised anyone who sides with Logain and if he does, they get turned to the Shadow by 13&13.

alleluia_cone
11-19-2010, 12:09 PM
Forrest Green on Charcoal does not make for easy reading.

Jonai
11-19-2010, 01:01 PM
You could try eye searing blue on charcoal. *weg*

AFAIK, that's how things stand LT10.

metaphor
11-19-2010, 08:50 PM
He's hiding among Taim's cronies.

Jonai
11-20-2010, 03:34 AM
Almost hope that tomfoolery, chicanery, and shennigans were all that Rand and Egwene have been up to and it never gets explained next book. Just to see the reactions.

HunterOTS
11-20-2010, 03:38 AM
Almost hope that tomfoolery, chicanery, and shennigans were all that Rand and Egwene have been up to and it never gets explained next book. Just to see the reactions.

Rand was on a month long oosquai bender. The zen-persona was a pleasant side effect.

Jonai
11-20-2010, 03:46 AM
In whiskey there is wisdom.

Cloudrunner
11-22-2010, 10:09 PM
I just wanted to point out that anyone that complains about compressed plot lines shouldn't blame the author(s). The WOT fan base was continually complaining about the length of the series and wanted it sped up... so here you have it. If you don't like that there is only 1 more book to get this resolved in then we only have ourselves to blame.

When RJ got sick he caved in on his long held stance that it was his story and he wanted to write it the way he had planned it. He promised to wrap it up because he didn't think he had the time left to complete the series in the way he had planned to.

I think we got a break when they decided to break it up into a final 3 volumes. Personally, I wouldn't have minded if the series had extended another 2 or 3 books. ( This is a repost from another thread. ) :D