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SalvorHardin
11-11-2010, 02:09 PM
Chapter 37, page 571, Darkness in the Tower. Gawyn realizes that Egwene is sleeping, and goes to have a gateway made to the Tower:

Blessedly, a Kinswoman was on duty here -- bleary-eyed, but waiting in case emergency messages needed to be sent. Gawyn didn't recognize the dark-haired woman, but she seemed to recognize him.

She yawned and opened a gateway at his request. He ran through and onto the Traveling ground of the White Tower. The gateway vanished right behind him. Gawyn started, spinning with a curse. That had nearly closed right on him! Why had the Kinswoman let it vanish so abruptly, and so dangerously? A split second sooner, and it would have taken his foot off, or worse.
Who, indeed, was the Kinswoman, and why was she such a dick?

The fact that Gawyn recognized her in my mind rules out the Kin from his garden stroll with Elayne and the damane; he'd recognize someone he'd spoken with that recently.

I feel like there's a simple answer to this, one that I've just missed. My gratitude to anyone who could shed light on this.

Second question:

Chapter 41, page 628, An Unexpected Ally. Perrin's army has just outmaneuvered Graendel and are in the processs of saving the Whitecloaks.

"Grady!" Perrin called to the Asha'man, who was firing blasts down at the Trollocs. "You still sense channeling?"

"Only off and on, my Lord," Grady called back. "Whoever it is, they're not terribly strong. And they're not joining the battle. I think they must be doing something to bring the Trollocs, jumping in with fists of them, then jumping away immediately to fetch more."
Um... jumping how? It can't be gateways or skimming. There is a portal stone there, so perhaps that is the path, but Grady says the channeler isn't very strong.

Which begs the question "how does a not-so-strong channeler bring 50,000+ shadowspawn by portal stone?" Bringing them in a fist at a time would take forever.

Obviously Graendal could have done substantially more than that, but it seems obvious from the chapter (and her later punishment) that she didn't take a direct part in the battle.

Again, I'm feeling like there's something simple I've missed here. Help me out, please.

WinespringBrother
11-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Chapter 37, page 571, Darkness in the Tower. Gawyn realizes that Egwene is sleeping, and goes to have a gateway made to the Tower:


Who, indeed, was the Kinswoman, and why was she such a dick?

The fact that Gawyn recognized her in my mind rules out the Kin from his garden stroll with Elayne and the damane; he'd recognize someone he'd spoken with that recently.

I feel like there's a simple answer to this, one that I've just missed. My gratitude to anyone who could shed light on this.

Second question:

Chapter 41, page 628, An Unexpected Ally. Perrin's army has just outmaneuvered Graendel and are in the processs of saving the Whitecloaks.


Um... jumping how? It can't be gateways or skimming. There is a portal stone there, so perhaps that is the path, but Grady says the channeler isn't very strong.

Which begs the question "how does a not-so-strong channeler bring 50,000+ shadowspawn by portal stone?" Bringing them in a fist at a time would take forever.

Obviously Graendal could have done substantially more than that, but it seems obvious from the chapter (and her later punishment) that she didn't take a direct part in the battle.

Again, I'm feeling like there's something simple I've missed here. Help me out, please.

1) The gateway was dispelled due to Perrin's arrival with the dreamspike.

2) A male channeler was "jumping" in on the Portal Stone from a mirror world, then jumping back to the MW for more passengers (Trollocs)

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Chapter 37, page 571, Darkness in the Tower. Gawyn realizes that Egwene is sleeping, and goes to have a gateway made to the Tower:


Who, indeed, was the Kinswoman, and why was she such a dick?

The fact that Gawyn recognized her in my mind rules out the Kin from his garden stroll with Elayne and the damane; he'd recognize someone he'd spoken with that recently.

I feel like there's a simple answer to this, one that I've just missed. My gratitude to anyone who could shed light on this.

Gawyn got there just in the nick of time before Perrin got to Tar Valon with the dream spike and thus cut off all Traveling. Had Gawyn been two seconds slower he would have been blocked; had he been one second slower he would have been killed. Had nothing to do with the Kin woman.

etranger
11-11-2010, 02:30 PM
2) A male channeler was "jumping" in on the Portal Stone from a mirror world, then jumping back to the MW for more passengers (Trollocs)

There may well have been more than one channeler too.

Crispin's Crispian
11-11-2010, 02:30 PM
2) A male channeler was "jumping" in on the Portal Stone from a mirror world, then jumping back to the MW for more passengers (Trollocs)
That doesn't really answer the whole question, though. Who is the male channeler working for Graendal who was strong enough to use a Portal Stone (albeit for smaller groups) but disinclined to take part in the battle?

SalvorHardin
11-11-2010, 02:31 PM
1) The gateway was dispelled due to Perrin's arrival with the dreamspike.
Ah -- yup, that explains it. Thanks.

2) A male channeler was "jumping" in on the Portal Stone from a mirror world, then jumping back to the MW for more passengers (Trollocs)
But there's a limit to the amount of people channelers can take with them through the portal stones, right? I'm certain I can remember that from Book 4.

That said, it certainly is possible that Graendel had a team of folks bring the initial host, then only one channeler responsible for bringing more to the fight and scouting out how it's going.

Matoyak
11-11-2010, 02:32 PM
That doesn't really answer the whole question, though. Who is the male channeler working for Graendal who was strong enough to use a Portal Stone (albeit for smaller groups) but disinclined to take part in the battle?Random Dreadlord #2564, probably.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 02:32 PM
I suppose the best assumption is someone from the Black Tower.

Of course, Rand is too busy screwing Min to do anything about that.

Crispin's Crispian
11-11-2010, 02:35 PM
I suppose the best assumption is someone from the Black Tower.

Of course, Rand is too busy screwing Min to do anything about that.

Oh I'm quite sure IntegRand is celibate now. You don't make apples grow with fornication.

Yes, it's a random dreadlord, maybe from the Tower. But wouldn't even one random dreadlord have made a big difference in the fight? I guess what I'm getting at is that dreadlords were used to attack Maradon, but Graendal didn't use one to aid in her trap. It could have made a big difference to her fate.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 02:40 PM
I think Perrin's instincts were correct on this issue. The attack was just meant to kill easy prey; Graendal was more concerned that Byar carry out his mission than whether the attack on the White Cloaks be successful.

Crispin's Crispian
11-11-2010, 02:43 PM
I think Perrin's instincts were correct on this issue. The attack was just meant to kill easy prey; Graendal was more concerned that Byar carry out his mission than whether the attack on the White Cloaks be successful.

I don't want to belabor this...but I'd trust the channeler over Byar to get it done. I know the Chosen aren't known for good contingency plans, but just letting Perrin walk away while your channeler comes home to rest is pretty dumb.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 02:46 PM
I don't want to belabor this...but I'd trust the channeler over Byar to get it done. I know the Chosen aren't known for good contingency plans, but just letting Perrin walk away while your channeler comes home to rest is pretty dumb.

Honestly, the plan was pretty much going to work absent the most unlikely of events occurring.

And since this is a question thread, I'm going to throw out my own:

Does everybody think Verin told Galad who his brother is in that letter he received?

Landro
11-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Does everybody think Verin told Galad who his brother is in that letter he received?

I haven't given Verin's letter to Galad much thought yet but Galad and Rand are only half brothers since they only share the same mother.

Also note that Slayer is Galad's uncle. It's a crazy world out there and Luc is part of the Royal line of Andor :p

ckparrothead
11-11-2010, 04:37 PM
You know I was just going to complain about how stupid Graendal's plans seemed to be and especially that moment when she bragged about how she spent a lot of time setting one more contingency in place...and then all it ended up being was the Trolloc parade that never even would have reached Perrin if he hadn't come back to save the Whitecloaks.

I hadn't realized that Byar was likely hers as well. Even so, had Perrin not come back to save the Whitecloaks, Byar never would have had a shot at him.

Seems the questions of the original poster that could be answered, have been. I'm curious to know who can jump back and forth from portal stone to portal stone with large fists of Trollocs and not be all that powerful with the One Power.

As for who, probably just a non-descript Asha'man.

arioch
11-11-2010, 04:47 PM
You know I was just going to complain about how stupid Graendal's plans seemed to be and especially that moment when she bragged about how she spent a lot of time setting one more contingency in place...and then all it ended up being was the Trolloc parade that never even would have reached Perrin if he hadn't come back to save the Whitecloaks.

I hadn't realized that Byar was likely hers as well. Even so, had Perrin not come back to save the Whitecloaks, Byar never would have had a shot at him.

Seems the questions of the original poster that could be answered, have been. I'm curious to know who can jump back and forth from portal stone to portal stone with large fists of Trollocs and not be all that powerful with the One Power.

As for who, probably just a non-descript Asha'man.

Perrin was never supposed to disable the Dreamspike.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 04:55 PM
Of course, instead of this whole convoluted plot, Graendal could have simply Traveled to Perrin's tent at night and balefired him into oblivion.

Oh . . . what was that? Oh yes, I forgot, none of the main characters can actually die. Silly me.

Davian93
11-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Of course, instead of this whole convoluted plot, Graendal could have simply Traveled to Perrin's tent at night and balefired him into oblivion.

Oh . . . what was that? Oh yes, I forgot, none of the main characters can actually die. Silly me.

Yeah but Ta'veren and ah...something something.

alleluia_cone
11-11-2010, 09:02 PM
Yeah but Ta'veren and ah...something something.

Don't worry; that's how I actually reconciled this ridiculousness in my head: "Well, he is ta'veren and . . . well . . . maybe . . . um, yeah." :rolleyes:

Raralith
11-11-2010, 10:15 PM
That doesn't really answer the whole question, though. Who is the male channeler working for Graendal who was strong enough to use a Portal Stone (albeit for smaller groups) but disinclined to take part in the battle?

Page 600-601, a loaned male channeler from Moridin, under compulsion. As for being weak, he could have a talent for channeling like how Androl (the Logain supporter in the Black Tower) who has a talent for Traveling since he can make gateways big enough for wagons but is so weak in everything else that he could only chip a rock.

Charlz Guybon
11-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Oh I'm quite sure IntegRand is celibate now. You don't make apples grow with fornication.

Yes, it's a random dreadlord, maybe from the Tower. But wouldn't even one random dreadlord have made a big difference in the fight? I guess what I'm getting at is that dreadlords were used to attack Maradon, but Graendal didn't use one to aid in her trap. It could have made a big difference to her fate.

He was bringing in 50,000 Tollocs, a fist at time. That's like 300 trips. That guy's gonna be too exhausted to do anything else.

bowlwoman
11-12-2010, 12:00 AM
Don't worry; that's how I actually reconciled this ridiculousness in my head: "Well, he is ta'veren and . . . well . . . maybe . . . um, yeah." :rolleyes:

"Yeah, I, uh, fanwanked my Taver'en and his dreamspike exploded."

Uno
11-12-2010, 12:02 AM
"Yeah, I, uh, fanwanked my Taver'en and his dreamspike exploded."

Pretty traumatic, that, having your dreamspike explode, but I imagine Nynaeve will be able to heal that, too.

Jonai
11-12-2010, 12:12 AM
I think we're making assumptions about what it takes to operate a Portal Stone. I mean, sure we have Rand's experiences to go on, but it might be easier if you know what you are doing. He was just throwing saidin at it.

I feel like ToM is making Alleucia's blood pressure rise...;)

Terez
11-12-2010, 01:07 AM
I feel like ToM is making Alleluia's blood pressure rise...;)
It's because his favorite character was relegated to the role of a pathetic damsel in distress. That makes a lot of people's blood pressure rise, apparently.

jana
11-12-2010, 01:09 AM
It's because his favorite character was relegated to the role of a pathetic damsel in distress. That makes a lot of people's blood pressure rise, apparently.

Are we talking about Mo again? I don't want to look. Any anti-Mo sentiments send me into a frenzy.


(I should shut up now. I just ate a lot of candy)

Terez
11-12-2010, 01:13 AM
Alleluia has a thing for Cynfear.

jana
11-12-2010, 01:16 AM
Alleluia has a thing for Cynfear.


Oh. Then he can just assume it's a clever ruse. And we can all be happy and glad again like that other time. (and, uh, she was sort of a damsel in distress in TGH anyway)

Terez
11-12-2010, 01:19 AM
Oh. Then he can just assume it's a clever ruse. And we can all be happy and glad again like that other time.
I was talking about how we discovered that Moridin saved her from Ghenjei, mostly.

(and, uh, she was sort of a damsel in distress in TGH anyway)
She was, uh, faking it.

jana
11-12-2010, 01:32 AM
I was talking about how we discovered that Moridin saved her from Ghenjei, mostly.

Ohhhhhhh, I was only thinking of her in the dream.

Poor Lanfear.

Jonai
11-12-2010, 02:42 AM
Yes yes poor Lannie. Candy and you didn't share any? *cry*

Daekyras
11-12-2010, 03:05 AM
Does everybody think Verin told Galad who his brother is in that letter he received?

Wait, I asked if She gave him a letter about 3 times already but got no answer:(.

Is that assumed to be the case now? I hope so cause that would have some serious possiblities...

Galad,

The dragon reborn is your brother.

The whitecloaks are all tools....of the dark one.

Verin Mathwin, Aes Sedai.

P.S. Your sister is an idiot.
Verin.

P.P.S So is your Other Brother.

V

Jokeslayer
11-12-2010, 03:53 AM
I'm curious to know who can jump back and forth from portal stone to portal stone with large fists of Trollocs and not be all that powerful with the One Power.

Presumably they only feel him channeling on the way back, when it's just him, which doesn't need that much power.

jana
11-12-2010, 04:26 AM
Wait, I asked if She gave him a letter about 3 times already but got no answer:(.

Yes she did

GonzoTheGreat
11-12-2010, 05:35 AM
Page 600-601, a loaned male channeler from Moridin, under compulsion. As for being weak, he could have a talent for channeling like how Androl (the Logain supporter in the Black Tower) who has a talent for Traveling since he can make gateways big enough for wagons but is so weak in everything else that he could only chip a rock.Of course, the fellow described there is Slayer, but apart from that there's not much wrong with your assumptions.

Besides, we know that Ishamael was able to send others away using a Portal Stone while he himself remained where he was. He did that with Rand, Loial and Hurin, after all. So it is quite possible that the main moving force for the Trollocs is in that Mirror World. The channeler who accompanies them simply shouts "move along, move along now", and then returns as soon as the area is cleared so that the next batch can be loaded. This would require him to be just barely strong enough to move himself.

Tarion
11-12-2010, 12:11 PM
Don't worry; that's how I actually reconciled this ridiculousness in my head: "Well, he is ta'veren and . . . well . . . maybe . . . um, yeah." :rolleyes:Remember Verin having to go to Mat, because every time she tried not to, he ta'verened her back to him.

It sort of makes sense. Anyway, if she had, she'd almost definitely have died trying. And if she'd not got him (Picking one tent out of many, etc.) she's just thrown away her life for nothing.

The Forsaken are selfish. Sacrifice like that only really fits Moridin.

alleluia_cone
11-12-2010, 12:52 PM
It's because his favorite character was relegated to the role of a pathetic damsel in distress. That makes a lot of people's blood pressure rise, apparently.

You have me all wrong--I loved this development. It gave me hope that Lanfear will be a central character in the next book. If anything made me giddy during ToM it was the scene with her in it and what it implied for the next book.

You want to know what gets my blood pressure up?

How it's never explained what the hell Rand and Egwene were doing during the 25 days they were not shown on screen in ToM while the world is coming to an end. If this goes completely unexplained in the next book I might suffer a mini aneurysm.

Oh. Then he can just assume it's a clever ruse. And we can all be happy and glad again like that other time. (and, uh, she was sort of a damsel in distress in TGH anyway)

I'm direly hoping it isn't a ruse actually. I was in the "Lanfear will help Rand deal with the Bore" Camp back in the 1990s. What transpired in ToM gives this theory a chance.

I was talking about how we discovered that Moridin saved her from Ghenjei, mostly.

Again, I want this to be the case. I want Rand to save her. If Moridin "saved" her from Ghenjei, which I assume to be the case, then the other stuff I want to happen might actually have a chance of happening.

Wait, I asked if She gave him a letter about 3 times already but got no answer:(.

Is that assumed to be the case now? I hope so cause that would have some serious possiblities...

Galad,

The dragon reborn is your brother.

The whitecloaks are all tools....of the dark one.

Verin Mathwin, Aes Sedai.

P.S. Your sister is an idiot.
Verin.

P.P.S So is your Other Brother.

V

God, I wish I could rep you for this post.

Remember Verin having to go to Mat, because every time she tried not to, he ta'verened her back to him.

It sort of makes sense. Anyway, if she had, she'd almost definitely have died trying. And if she'd not got him (Picking one tent out of many, etc.) she's just thrown away her life for nothing.

The Forsaken are selfish. Sacrifice like that only really fits Moridin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . I got it already.

If Perrin sh*ts gold . . . ta'veren.

If Rand convinces three beautiful women to share him and everybody is cool with that . . . ta'veren.

:: sigh ::

Davian93
11-12-2010, 12:54 PM
God, I wish I could rep you for this post.

Got him for you.

Crispin's Crispian
11-12-2010, 01:04 PM
You have me all wrong--I loved this development. It gave me hope that Lanfear will be a central character in the next book. If anything made me giddy during ToM it was the scene with her in it and what it implied for the next book.

You want to know what gets my blood pressure up?

How it's never explained what the hell Rand and Egwene were doing during the 25 days they were not shown on screen in ToM while the world is coming to an end. If this goes completely unexplained in the next book I might suffer a mini aneurysm.



I'm direly hoping it isn't a ruse actually. I was in the "Lanfear will help Rand deal with the Bore" Camp back in the 1990s. What transpired in ToM gives this theory a chance.



Again, I want this to be the case. I want Rand to save her. If Moridin "saved" her from Ghenjei, which I assume to be the case, then the other stuff I want to happen might actually have a chance of happening.



God, I wish I could rep you for this post.



Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . I got it already.

If Perrin sh*ts gold . . . ta'veren.

If Rand convinces there beautiful women to share him and everybody is cool with that . . . ta'veren.

:: sigh ::

If Perrin sh*t gold, his smithy would be highly profitable. Then again, who would buy it once they found out where it came from.

Heh...I wonder if the TP can be used on gold sh*t.

Davian93
11-12-2010, 01:08 PM
If Perrin sh*t gold, his smithy would be highly profitable. Then again, who would buy it once they found out where it came from.

Heh...I wonder if the TP can be used on gold sh*t.

There's not enough Alchemy in WoT.

E-Rock
11-14-2010, 02:45 AM
If Perrin sh*t gold, his smithy would be highly profitable. Then again, who would buy it once they found out where it came from.

Heh...I wonder if the TP can be used on gold sh*t.


There's not enough Alchemy in WoT.

Being an Augur misting would just suck soooo much... :D

cottillion
11-17-2010, 06:37 AM
My guess as to why the channelers were simply transporting instead of actively participating is because as others have said it was probably Asha'man from the Black Tower that were being used. They probably didn't want to risk them being potentially exposed as it was known that there were Asha'man traveling with Perrin's group. While it wouldn't be any grand revelation for them to find out that there was Darkfriends among those in the Black Tower, it might have been a bigger problem if the whole 13x13 thing was exposed. The turning seems to have fairly obvious effects and if things went wrong and one happened to die or get captured than everything that's going on at the Black Tower could potentially be exposed.