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Nei
11-13-2010, 05:39 PM
I've been thinking on this a bit, actually. It's something that's been brought up before in the books. Many 'wetlanders' refer to the Aiel as 'black-eyed Aiel', something that Aviendha hears once and reacts to with confusion.

Suddenly, out of nowhere out pops this Aiel-like thing with dark eyes and a mouth like Sanderson played too much Mortal Kombat.

Something tells me that these freaky fake-Aiel aren't a new thing. They might have existed sometime in years after the Breaking and have been seen before. :|

Enheduanna
11-13-2010, 06:05 PM
I've been thinking on this a bit, actually. It's something that's been brought up before in the books. Many 'wetlanders' refer to the Aiel as 'black-eyed Aiel', something that Aviendha hears once and reacts to with confusion.

Suddenly, out of nowhere out pops this Aiel-like thing with dark eyes and a mouth like Sanderson played too much Mortal Kombat.

Something tells me that these freaky fake-Aiel aren't a new thing. They might have existed sometime in years after the Breaking and have been seen before. :|

Memories passed down from the Trolloc War most likely, since from what we know of the Aiel, the only left the Waste twice; once to give Avendoraldera to the Cairheinin, and then for the Aiel War. Good thinking, Nei.

Zoltar
11-13-2010, 11:57 PM
I've been thinking on this a bit, actually. It's something that's been brought up before in the books. Many 'wetlanders' refer to the Aiel as 'black-eyed Aiel', something that Aviendha hears once and reacts to with confusion.

Suddenly, out of nowhere out pops this Aiel-like thing with dark eyes and a mouth like Sanderson played too much Mortal Kombat.

Something tells me that these freaky fake-Aiel aren't a new thing. They might have existed sometime in years after the Breaking and have been seen before. :|

Black veiled Aiel you mean? I cannot recall once in the series where they were referred to as black eyed, but I could be wrong.

HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 12:02 AM
I don't remember where but I do remember the scene that was described with Avienda being confused. I remember it because when I read it I had to give it a double take because I had been so used to reading it as "black veiled" but in that instance it was "black eyed."

Daemin
11-14-2010, 12:29 AM
Winter's Heart, Chapter 27: To Surprise Queens and Kings

Where the others carried their years with grace, Tenobia of Saldaea flaunted youth if not beauty, with her eagle's beak of a nose and wide mouth. Her tilted, almost purple eyes, level with Elayne's, were her best feature. Perhaps her only one. Where the others dressed simply, even if they did rule nations, her pale blue dress was worked with pearls and sapphires and she wore more sapphires in her hair. Suitable for the court, but hardly for a camp. And where they were courteous. . . . "Under the Light, Merilille Sedai," Tenobia said in a high voice, frowning, "I know you speak truth, but she looks more a child than an Aes Sedai. You did not mention she would be bringing a black-eyed Aiel."

...

"Black?" Aviendha muttered in confusion. "My eyes are not black. I never saw black eyes except on a peddler until I crossed the Dragonwall."


So not only does someone refer to "black eyed Aiel," its a borderland monarch.

Uno
11-14-2010, 12:30 AM
I know of two references to black-eyed Aiel:

POD, ch. 20: "Tisn't right, if you ask me. He's one of them black-eyed Aielmen, I hear. We ought to march on Caemlyn and drive him and all them Aiel back where they come from. "

WH, ch. 27: Tenobia refers to Aviendha as a "black-eyed Aiel," to her confusion.

Seia Doon, one of the warriors societies, are the Black Eyes, of course.

Res_Ipsa
11-14-2010, 12:58 AM
I know of two references to black-eyed Aiel:

POD, ch. 20: "Tisn't right, if you ask me. He's one of them black-eyed Aielmen, I hear. We ought to march on Caemlyn and drive him and all them Aiel back where they come from. "

WH, ch. 27: Tenobia refers to Aviendha as a "black-eyed Aiel," to her confusion.

Seia Doon, one of the warriors societies, are the Black Eyes, of course.

I think the eyes are more of a case of unfamiliar superstition guided by their eyes being the only identifiable feature when they kill. Aviendha in the Tenobia instance stated her eyes were obviously not black and the only black eyes she had seen had been since crossing the dragonwall.

Uno
11-14-2010, 01:04 AM
Also, Mat's soldiers referred to the Aiel who attacked them as "black-eyed vermin" in ch. 22, LOC. But, yes, it's a standard expression of dislike in these contexts.

Trutino
11-14-2010, 01:20 AM
Great catch! The scene where Aviendha is confused about black-eyed Aiel is too perfect to just be a coincidence. I don't know if we can connect these things definitively before the next book but I can't imagine that they aren't connected.

Res_Ipsa
11-14-2010, 01:32 AM
Great catch! The scene where Aviendha is confused about black-eyed Aiel is too perfect to just be a coincidence. I don't know if we can connect these things definitively before the next book but I can't imagine that they aren't connected.

If you are referring to as Uno did the WH scene she is not confused. While the red veils are meant to stir discussion I do not believe it is meant to ask whether they existed in Randland before bc everyone in the series until the Aiel cross the Dragonwall for the 2nd time refer to their surprise at finding Aiel in the wetlands.

Nei
11-14-2010, 01:46 AM
Also, Mat's soldiers referred to the Aiel who attacked them as "black-eyed vermin" in ch. 22, LOC. But, yes, it's a standard expression of dislike in these contexts.

I'm not sure though. Dark hair and eyes are a far more common feature in the 'wetlands' than the light colourations of the Aiel. Why use it as an insult? Also, given that the Aiel veil everything but their eyes in battle, you'd think that the first thing people would notice were the unusually fair eyes. Well, not immediately for obvious reasons, but there would be corpses.

Are there any other instances where someone non-Aiel has been insulted as black-eyed?

Gareth Tomlinson
11-14-2010, 04:32 PM
So does anyone else think that these Aiel might have been turned to the Shadow via 13 Fades & Black Ajah?
Just like some of the Ashaman?

Kalli
11-14-2010, 05:53 PM
I think that are linked to Moridin and his fortress in the blight. I suspect that he has a community of shadow souled humans based on the workers trying to grow blight resistant crops at his fortress. You wouldn't farm in the blight unless you had to support a number of people otherwise you'd probably be better foraging.