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Terez
11-14-2010, 03:19 PM
So, Verin is obviously spilling the scoop on what she knows about the Shadow's plans. She left the biggest scoop with Egwene, supposedly. Hopefully someone has been reading that. She tipped Rand off about Weiramon, and Mattin Stepaneos. She tried to tell Mat about the Caemlyn invasion. She told Alanna something that sent her running north; maybe to the Borderlands, maybe to Tar Valon.

The only real mystery here is Galad. What could Verin possibly tell him? I doubt it had anything to do with Carridin; he's been dead for some time. I also doubt it had to do with Byar, or Asunawa, or any Whitecloak for that matter. Most mysterious of all is the fact that his points of view alternate with Perrin's throughout the entire book, until just before this point. Galad's last POV is in ch. 43; Perrin sees him with the letter in ch. 44. This also coincides with Galad's oath to submit to Perrin until the Last Battle is done, which happens in Galad's last POV. After that he becomes relatively insignificant, you might say. But the timing with the letter is thought-provoking.

I find Galad's letter to be the most interesting to consider because of Elaida's Foretellings concerning Andor and the royal line. A few random possibilities:

1. She told him something about his uncle Luc. This seems at least fairly likely; Verin did get the chance to study Luc in the Two Rivers, though it's doubtful Perrin told her much beyond what she saw. We also have reason to believe Verin might have been skilled in Tel'aran'rhiod, so that's another thing to consider.

2. She told him about assassination plots against Elayne, or Gawyn, or himself, or Perrin, or about general Shadow plots within the Whitecloaks. Maybe some Darkfriends among the Lords Captain; I can't imagine anyone else being important enough for a Verin letter.

3. She told him of some random mention of him in the prophecies that no one else had interpreted correctly.

4. She warned him to stay away from Graendal, lest he become her prize pretty.

5. She tells him of the Black Ajah with Perrin, perhaps Darkfriend Wise Ones.

6. She tells him that Norry is a Darkfriend.

7. She tells him that Demandred has the hots for him and is eager to buttrape him at first opportunity.

8. I'm running out of ideas here.

9. She told him about Padan Fain's influence on the Whitecloaks.

10. She tells him that Berelain is a Darkfriend.

Jonai
11-14-2010, 03:30 PM
You just had to put Demmy slash in there...

Elmindreda
11-14-2010, 03:42 PM
1. She told him something about his uncle Luc. This seems at least fairly likely; Verin did get the chance to study Luc in the Two Rivers, though it's doubtful Perrin told her much beyond what she saw. We also have reason to believe Verin might have been skilled in Tel'aran'rhiod, so that's another thing to consider.


She tells him that the Dragon Reborn is his half-brother?

Terez
11-14-2010, 03:45 PM
She tells him that the Dragon Reborn is his half-brother?
I thought about including that, but couldn't think of a way to make it particularly relevant to Shadow plots. Except maybe the whole blood on the rocks thing...but that would fall under the 'misinterpreted prophecies' category.

dpt24
11-14-2010, 03:58 PM
It could be anything, though. Mat's letter couldn't really have been anticipated. I'm really curious what that letter is, I REALLY hope we get to see what was in it in AMOL. It could be a warning about an attack by the shadow somewhere like Mat's, but I guess not Caymlen. Why though would Verrin leave Galad a letter? I don't think she knew him very well.

alleluia_cone
11-14-2010, 03:59 PM
10. She tells him that Berelain is a Darkfriend.

Nooooooooooo!!!

All kidding aside, I realize this is still a possibility because we haven't got a POV yet but I think the chances are dimming.

Terez
11-14-2010, 04:15 PM
It seems that way because Galad is so hot for her. We always knew that Min's viewing didn't guarantee that he would return her feelings, so seeing him return them seems to settle the issue once and for all. But Berelain honestly made me wonder more than ever before in this book. A lot of her comments about how she believed that Rand has promised Perrin to her reminded me of the idiot sort of reasoning that leads people to becoming Darkfriends in the first place. It reminded me of Sheriam in particular.

Caveatar
11-14-2010, 07:21 PM
It seems that way because Galad is so hot for her.

[begin obtuse] Galad is hot for Verin? [/obtuse]
Or maybe Verin loves Galad?
:D

jana
11-14-2010, 08:10 PM
[begin obtuse] Galad is hot for Verin? [/obtuse]
Or maybe Verin loves Galad?
:D


Dearest Galadedrid,

Please do something heroic in the Last Battle. I'll be waiting breathlessly in T'A'R for you,

-Verin

P.S. - Berelain is a darkfriend. If you touch her it will rub off on you.

P.P.S. - she also has chlamydia

ckparrothead
11-15-2010, 12:45 AM
I thought about including that, but couldn't think of a way to make it particularly relevant to Shadow plots. Except maybe the whole blood on the rocks thing...but that would fall under the 'misinterpreted prophecies' category.

If she knows about Galad's reputation for seeing everything black and white and acting accordingly, then telling him he's the half-brother of the Dragon Reborn could have some effect that way. At the very least you would have to think it would prevent the obtuse Galad from personally trying to kill Rand for some whitecloaky reason, knowing that Galad would rather die than turn his hand on his own kin. The most he'd do to Rand if he knew they were kin would be to insist he be brought to justice for whatever ignorant whitecloaky reason he would have.

Andrac
11-15-2010, 12:55 AM
I think she told him about byar myself. It seems like he got the letter after byar was killed and he swore to perrin. So then getting a letter from an aes sedai, and he knows they can't lie but doesn't know verin is a darkfriend, that says outright 'byar is a darkfriend' it would make him feel better. When you read that scene perron notices how galad seems very relieved from reading that letter. Well who hated perrin the most and was his biggest accuser of being a darkfriend? Byar. Now he turns out to be a darkfriend then I think it makes galad relieved that he didn't kill perrin and makes him also believe perrin when he says he isn't a darkfriend.

I can't think of anything else that would make him feel relieved. I believe that was the actual word used. Finding out rand is his half-brother wouldn't make him feel relieved. Maybe curious or suprised, but how would that bring him relief? Same with everything else. Fidning out about a plot to kill your bother and sister wouldn't make you happy. You would be freaking out and you know damn well galad would have been running through that gateway the second it was big enough to get back to elayne.

jana
11-15-2010, 01:27 AM
I think she told him about byar myself.

That would be incredibly boring and I see no reason to show us that he received a letter if this was why

Belazamon
11-15-2010, 01:31 AM
I think she told him about byar myself. It seems like he got the letter after byar was killed and he swore to perrin. So then getting a letter from an aes sedai, and he knows they can't lie but doesn't know verin is a darkfriend, that says outright 'byar is a darkfriend' it would make him feel better. When you read that scene perron notices how galad seems very relieved from reading that letter. Well who hated perrin the most and was his biggest accuser of being a darkfriend? Byar. Now he turns out to be a darkfriend then I think it makes galad relieved that he didn't kill perrin and makes him also believe perrin when he says he isn't a darkfriend.
Gotta say, I don't think Byar was a Darkfriend. He very likely had his mind screwed with by Graendal, but I don't think he ever swore to the Shadow.

That said, it's at least theoretically possible that Verin knew Byar was a pawn of one of the Chosen, but not quite as likely as if he had been an actual Darkfriend.

Terez
11-15-2010, 03:33 AM
Graendal doesn't like using Darkfriends; she prefers Compulsion.

Andrac
11-15-2010, 03:57 AM
Gotta say, I don't think Byar was a Darkfriend. He very likely had his mind screwed with by Graendal, but I don't think he ever swore to the Shadow.

That said, it's at least theoretically possible that Verin knew Byar was a pawn of one of the Chosen, but not quite as likely as if he had been an actual Darkfriend.

What else would make him look relieved? I mean if you got a letter from someone that said there is a plot to kill your brother and sister would you be relieved? Unless of course you really really REALLY hated them. We know galad doesn't hate his family however. There is nothing else at all that would make him relieved after reading it other then saying byar is a darkfriend and/or perrin is not a darkfriend. Everyone here seems to be forgetting the relieved part.

Daekyras
11-15-2010, 04:01 AM
7. She tells him that Demandred has the hots for him and is eager to buttrape him at first opportunity.

8. I'm running out of ideas here.



You ran out of ideas AFTER writing no 7? Brilliant.

I would say you deserve Rep for that but worried i might spell it wrong.

I like the Berelain DF idea.

Terez
11-15-2010, 04:07 AM
What else would make him look relieved?
He looked troubled, not relieved.

Davian93
11-15-2010, 08:25 AM
Does anyone else read "A Letter For Galad" and think some crappy romantic comedy picture? Probably starring Amanda Seyfried?

jana
11-15-2010, 08:33 AM
Amanda Seyfried?

I wish I could unwatch Mamma Mia

Ishara
11-15-2010, 09:29 AM
I think she told him about byar myself. It seems like he got the letter after byar was killed and he swore to perrin. So then getting a letter from an aes sedai, and he knows they can't lie but doesn't know verin is a darkfriend, that says outright 'byar is a darkfriend' it would make him feel better. When you read that scene perron notices how galad seems very relieved from reading that letter. Well who hated perrin the most and was his biggest accuser of being a darkfriend? Byar. Now he turns out to be a darkfriend then I think it makes galad relieved that he didn't kill perrin and makes him also believe perrin when he says he isn't a darkfriend.

I can't think of anything else that would make him feel relieved. I believe that was the actual word used. Finding out rand is his half-brother wouldn't make him feel relieved. Maybe curious or suprised, but how would that bring him relief? Same with everything else. Fidning out about a plot to kill your bother and sister wouldn't make you happy. You would be freaking out and you know damn well galad would have been running through that gateway the second it was big enough to get back to elayne.

Um, don't the DF oaths prevent Verin from betraying other Darkfriends, or is it just other Black Ajah?

Terez
11-15-2010, 09:46 AM
Um, don't the DF oaths prevent Verin from betraying other Darkfriends, or is it just other Black Ajah?
LOL. Why do you think Verin had Mat promise to wait to open the letter? Why do you think she gave Rand's letter to Tiana rather than to Rand himself? She made sure that they would not read them until after her hour of death.

And I think it is just a general 'Shadow plots' thing. The actual wording of the oath is: 'I swear not to betray the Great Lord, to keep my secrets until the hour of my death.'

maacaroni
02-19-2011, 05:51 PM
In the backhanded request chapter ( the one were Perrin marries off Tallanvor and Morgase ) there is a moment where Galad is troubled after reading a letter with a red seal. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest it's a letter from Verin.

The question is this: what is in the letter that troubles him so?

I believe Miss Mathwin (I don't think WoT does Miss and Mrs actually!) might be revealing a half-brother he never knew existed...and that aMoL will have it's own Luke/Darth moment. Sorta.

Any other ideas?

Rand al'Fain
02-20-2011, 03:31 AM
In the backhanded request chapter ( the one were Perrin marries Morgase ) there is a moment where Galad is troubled after reading a letter with a red seal. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest it's a letter from Verin.

The question is this: what is in the letter that troubles him so?

I believe Miss Mathwin (I don't think WoT does Miss and Mrs actually!) might be revealing a half-brother he never knew existed...and that aMoL will have it's own Luke/Darth moment. Sorta.

Any other ideas?

Certainly a possibility. Would make for an interesting moment next time they get together (have to wonder if Verin told Rand in his letter though). Rand is Galad's half-brother, Galad in turn is Elayne's half-brother, but yet, Rand and Elayne are otherwise not related.

But the hell would that make Galad if Rand and Elayne ever tie the knot? He's already an actual brother to both, but wouldn't that also make him brother-in-law to both as well?

David Selig
02-20-2011, 07:11 AM
But the hell would that make Galad if Rand and Elayne ever tie the knot? He's already an actual brother to both, but wouldn't that also make him brother-in-law to both as well?
Maybe this is what it would take for Elayne to finally stop saying "Galad is not my brother" :)

I know who will be happier by far if the news that Rand and Galad are siblings becomes public - Berelain. Now Galad would be her direct connection to the Dragon. In fact, he'd be an almost perfect political marriage, since in addition to being Rand's brother, his sister is Queen of Andor and Cairhien, the Amyrlin is about to become his sister-in-law any day now, and of course he's the commander of the Whitecloacks. He even has a close connection to the King of Tear through Caraline Damodred, though exactly how close they are related are unclear.

maacaroni
02-21-2011, 10:37 AM
I was surprised nobody else noticed it. Were there any other 'red letters' apart from Mat and Rand and Alanna?

GonzoTheGreat
02-21-2011, 11:06 AM
I was surprised nobody else noticed it. Were there any other 'red letters' apart from Mat and Rand and Alanna?Maybe:
"We shall see," she said, smiling to herself and releasing his hand. She folded up the picture of him, then took a small leather-bound satchel from her pocket. She opened it, sliding the picture inside, and as she did, he noticed that she had a small stack of folded, sealed pieces of paper inside just like the one he was holding. What was the purpose of those?Which, I admit, is not very precise as to how many letters there were, or who the others are sent to.

Terez
02-21-2011, 11:14 AM
I was surprised nobody else noticed it.
What on earth made you think that? :rolleyes:

Thread merge.

maacaroni
02-22-2011, 07:56 AM
What on earth made you think that? :rolleyes:

Thread merge.

I'll spot something you miss, Tevez, one of these days, I promise!

PS Don't think 7. is feasible as Demandred is less the Arthur and more the Martha.

Terez
02-22-2011, 11:29 AM
lol. If Shaidar Haran gets ahold of him, no doubt he will be. But that doesn't mean he can't dream. :)

Also, if you come up with any more overlooked details from TOM, go back to the dates around book release and I'm sure you'll find us discussing most of them in one thread another. ;)

Seth Baker
03-02-2011, 11:48 AM
I know who will be happier by far if the news that Rand and Galad are siblings becomes public - Berelain. Now Galad would be her direct connection to the Dragon. In fact, he'd be an almost perfect political marriage, since in addition to being Rand's brother, his sister is Queen of Andor and Cairhien, the Amyrlin is about to become his sister-in-law any day now, and of course he's the commander of the Whitecloacks. He even has a close connection to the King of Tear through Caraline Damodred, though exactly how close they are related are unclear.

Solid reasoning, there. Caraline is Taringail's cousin (at least, she's Moiraine's cousin, and Moiraine is Taringail's half-sister). Therefore, Darlin becomes Galad's first-cousin, once removed, by marriage.

Daekyras
03-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Solid reasoning, there. Caraline is Taringail's cousin (at least, she's Moiraine's cousin, and Moiraine is Taringail's half-sister). Therefore, Darlin becomes Galad's first-cousin, once removed, by marriage.

Thats a pretty tenuous relationship there. First cousin. once removed. By Marriage? Even in Kentucky that's not related!

Rand al'Fain
03-02-2011, 12:27 PM
Thats a pretty tenuous relationship there. First cousin. once removed. By Marriage? Even in Kentucky that's not related!

Cousin-in-laws! :cool:

But seriously, what will be Rand's and Galad's reaction to eachother when they find out that they are brothers? Rand did say that he often wondered what it would be like to have a sibling. Though, that sibling being Galad could make things interesting.

GonzoTheGreat
03-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Rand probably already knows. At least, he definitely has all the facts needed.
Sitting back on her heels beside Rand, Amys nodded. "She spoke of a child abandoned, a son she loved. A husband she did not love. Where, she would not say. I do not think she ever forgave herself for leaving the child. She would tell little beyond what she had to. It was for us she had been searching, for Maidens of the Spear. An Aes Sedai called Gitara Moroso, who had the Foretelling, had told her that disaster would befall her land and her people, perhaps the world, unless she went to dwell among the Maidens of the Spear, telling no one of her going. She must become a Maiden, and she could not return to her own land until the Maidens had gone to Tar Valon."

nameless
03-02-2011, 01:10 PM
Gotta say, I don't think Byar was a Darkfriend. He very likely had his mind screwed with by Graendal, but I don't think he ever swore to the Shadow.

That said, it's at least theoretically possible that Verin knew Byar was a pawn of one of the Chosen, but not quite as likely as if he had been an actual Darkfriend.

Byar was acting suspicious before Graendal ever got free from the Bore. Remember when he tried to trick Perrin into getting himself killed back in Eye of the World? Hardly the sort of thing a lightfriend would bother with, seeing as Perrin was already in custody and en route to execution.

Grig
03-02-2011, 02:03 PM
Byar was acting suspicious before Graendal ever got free from the Bore. Remember when he tried to trick Perrin into getting himself killed back in Eye of the World? Hardly the sort of thing a lightfriend would bother with, seeing as Perrin was already in custody and en route to execution.

Bastard != Darkfriend. Byar wanted Perrin to get himself killed because he thought he was a Darkfriend due to the running with wolves, but likely did not think it would be proved and/or did not want to travel in close proximity for long with a Darkfriend. This wolf suspicion, although far more tempered and less unhinged, was shared by Geofram Bornhald as well. And don't forget that Perrin killed two Whitecloaks. It doesn't take a Darkfriend to want to avenge one's comrades, extra-judiciously or not. Not everyone is happy with waiting for the courts to solve things. Blood runs hot in fighting groups, moreso those who actively encourage zealotry.

Seth Baker
03-02-2011, 02:04 PM
There are shades of gray, nameless. Just because he was distrustful of Perrin and perhaps sadistic enough to try to get him killed, doesn't mean he's a Darkfriend. Robert Jordan might not have the depth of moral relativism that George R.R. Martin does, but the fact that Byar tried to do something distasteful doesn't make him a Darkfriend.

I do think that Byar was Graendal's carefully placed backup plan, though, and that he was a victim of Compulsion at some point.

nameless
03-02-2011, 02:24 PM
I might buy that Byar simply wanted to personally avenge the men Perrin killed if he hadn't been so two-faced about it. But the way he played the near-perfect subordinate whose only flaw was being a little bit too zealous doesn't fit with the way he turned into a loose cannon the second Bornhald Sr.'s back was turned. That could have been explained by Byar being the kind of petty bully who only lashes out when there's no one around to see it, but when you add in the way he blindly throws around the "Perrin was responsible for Falme because the Seanchan aren't real" story even after he has proof they are real, and the way he waited to reveal what he knew about Valda and Morgase until it would cause the maximum amount of chaos, it starts to add up to "Darkfriend." The irrationality about the Seanchan could be explained by Compulsion, but we know from Shaidar Haran version 1.1 that Carridin wasn't the only Darkfriend planted among the Children, and Byar's the best candidate out of the ones we've met.

1Powerslave
03-10-2011, 06:26 PM
I think Galad's letter will be one of Terez's first three points. If the letter had any real plot significance it would most likely refer to Slayer/Luc. But since that is Perrin's adversary it is unlikely the letter deals with that. What is left are the other two, which will have no plot significance what so ever. In other words, Galad's letter is just "butter for our paws", as Cadsuane would say.

Spasmodean
03-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Graendal preferred not to use Darkfriends I recall if we are discussing Byar's allegiances.

arioch
03-10-2011, 06:58 PM
Graendal preferred not to use Darkfriends I recall if we are discussing Byar's allegiances.

Which would be why he was her LAST shot.

Nei
03-11-2011, 07:34 AM
Actually, I for one believe that while Byar was Graendal's 'last shot', he isn't a Darkfriend.

Graendal's reluctance to take a 'knife in the back' approach was not a matter of whether she prefers using Darkfriends or not. It's to do with her musings on how to go about killing Perrin.

She notes that Perrin's ta'veren nature will more often than not protect him from something like that. An arrow from the roof will be taken by someone else, or otherwise miss its mark. A knife in the back might be halted by someone. In this case, it did in fact come true. I don't believe Bornhald Jr would've stabbed Byar if not for Perrin's ra'veren nature guiding his actions. He himself seemed rather shocked to have stopped Byar the way he did.

As far as Byar is concerned, I think he was a bit like Masema. I think that Masema was already going a bit crazy, but his madness was further exacerbated by his visions of the 'figure of light' that appeared to him. I think that might've been Demandred or some other Forsaken. In this case, Byar's obsession with Perrin as Shadowspawn was probably aggravated by outside sources, first his contact with Paranoia-Fain and then quite possibly Graendal.