PDA

View Full Version : Darkfriend Sorilea, Rand's new ability, and Verin's Letter to Rand


HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 06:08 PM
So we know there is reason to suspect Sorilea as darkfriend, as is outlined is Terez's theory: http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=133&theo=2714

Now there is also the issue of whether Rand is really now able to see darkfriends, or if they just cannot meet his eyes, or if Verin just tipped Rand off about Weiramon and Anaiyella in her letter.

This brings the question up of whether, if Rand can see darkfriends, will that out Sorilea? Also, if Verin went to the trouble to warn Rand about Weiramon and Anaiyella, who are fairly inconsequential, why didn't she warn him about Sorilea if she is indeed a darkfriend?

I don't remember if Rand has encountered Sorilea since VoG or even where she is at right now, but it will be interesting to see if either his new ability is real or if the theory about Sorilea being a DF will be disproved.

TankSpill
11-14-2010, 09:38 PM
Can Rand actually see Darkfriends? I thought Verin's letter to him revealed those two darkfriends. At least, that's how I took it. Of course, we aren't ever given his POV, but I don't think he will be able to oust Sorilea (should it be determined she is dark) unless Verin also warned of her. Just my thoughts.

Xelun
11-14-2010, 09:39 PM
So we know there is reason to suspect Sorilea as darkfriend, as is outlined is Terez's theory: http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=133&theo=2714

Now there is also the issue of whether Rand is really now able to see darkfriends, or if they just cannot meet his eyes, or if Verin just tipped Rand off about Weiramon and Anaiyella in her letter.

This brings the question up of whether, if Rand can see darkfriends, will that out Sorilea? Also, if Verin went to the trouble to warn Rand about Weiramon and Anaiyella, who are fairly inconsequential, why didn't she warn him about Sorilea if she is indeed a darkfriend?

I don't remember if Rand has encountered Sorilea since VoG or even where she is at right now, but it will be interesting to see if either his new ability is real or if the theory about Sorilea being a DF will be disproved.

I don't think Sorilea appeared at all in ToM.

HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 09:51 PM
Can Rand actually see Darkfriends? I thought Verin's letter to him revealed those two darkfriends. At least, that's how I took it. Of course, we aren't ever given his POV, but I don't think he will be able to oust Sorilea (should it be determined she is dark) unless Verin also warned of her. Just my thoughts.

Yea I am kind of undecided on whether or not he can see darkfriends. When I originally read it I took at face value, partly because I just feel like it would be a stupid thing to pretend to be able to do. I accept the argument that Verin's letter tipped him off, but of course we cannot be sure because it's not actually shown ever.

So assuming he can't see them, and therefore he knew about Weiramon and Anaiyella from Verin, then did Verin tell him about Sorilea, and if not, why? I don't think Weiramon or Anaiyella really matter at this point in the game, and telling Rand about them and not Sorilea would be odd. Sorilea is in a position to create alot of difficulties for Rand via her influence over the Wise Ones. If she is a darkfriend, then I would imagine Verin either knew for sure or at least suspected. I don't understand why she would not tell Rand.

Of course the matter of Sorilea being a darkfriend might just be one of those mysteries that will never be addressed.

arioch
11-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Except after the Maradon rescue we now know Darkfriends actually cannot look at Rand's "aura".

Brandon Sanderson has also said that Rand has met Sorilea at least off screen since his return.

The main focus of Verin's letter to Rand did not deal with outing DFs in hiss retinue but instead offered hints and suggestions on the rulers not yet accounted for.

These facts, taken together, do tell us that Sorilea probably is not a DF.

HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 10:02 PM
I hope she turns out not to be a DF. I hate when a character I respect turns out to be aligned with the shadow.

Speaking of outed DFs... did anyone ever see the old Lost in Space show? I always imagined Weiramon's pontificating to be done in the overly dramatic voice and inflection of Dr. Smith.

Andrac
11-14-2010, 10:31 PM
I don't think she is a darkfriend. That entire theory is kind of bad if you ask me. It essentially starts out as 'sorilea thinks the wise ones should use the one power in battle so that means she is a darkfriend'. Thats a terrible reason. Then it goes on citing how she is the hardest of all the aiel. Well she is the also the oldest of all the aiel, why is this a suprise that she is also the hardest? No one ever is suprised when the amyrlin is the hardest of all the aes sedai, so why is it a shock that the oldest wise one is for the aiel? If you ask me its just the author of the theory not liking the character so they make an accusation to diminish her. Being a hardass doesn't make you a darkfriend. Ever talked to anyone that grew up during the great depression and fought in WWII? They tend to be 'harder' then their children and grandchildren in ways of thinking.

HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 10:35 PM
Haha yea I see what you mean about elderly people being considered hard by the young, but I don't think that's the basis for the theory. I think that is all there to establish a trend of her being dark as means to support what the truly damning evidence is, which is the whole thing about her seeing Cadsuane undo her wards on the male adam and then said adam being stolen despite the wards the next day.

Andrac
11-14-2010, 10:42 PM
Haha yea I see what you mean about elderly people being considered hard by the young, but I don't think that's the basis for the theory. I think that is all there to establish a trend of her being dark as means to support what the truly damning evidence is, which is the whole thing about her seeing Cadsuane undo her wards on the male adam and then said adam being stolen despite the wards the next day.

ALL the aiel are hard compared to wetlanders though, so its not really a good example. Sorilea is just the hardest of them all. Someone has to be at the top. She also happens to be the oldest, so its not really suprising.

As for the wards, I always thought it was shadar haran that undid them. That or Sem was able to undo them either with the true power, or she did from just knowing more about the one power. She did grow up in the age of legends after all. The aes sedai then could do stuff as common place that the aes sedai today literally couldn't even dream about.

arioch
11-14-2010, 10:48 PM
I don't think she is a darkfriend. That entire theory is kind of bad if you ask me. It essentially starts out as 'sorilea thinks the wise ones should use the one power in battle so that means she is a darkfriend'. Thats a terrible reason. Then it goes on citing how she is the hardest of all the aiel. Well she is the also the oldest of all the aiel, why is this a suprise that she is also the hardest? No one ever is suprised when the amyrlin is the hardest of all the aes sedai, so why is it a shock that the oldest wise one is for the aiel? If you ask me its just the author of the theory not liking the character so they make an accusation to diminish her. Being a hardass doesn't make you a darkfriend. Ever talked to anyone that grew up during the great depression and fought in WWII? They tend to be 'harder' then their children and grandchildren in ways of thinking.

The first two reasons never made much sense to me either.

Nei
11-14-2010, 10:50 PM
I thought that Sem was the one who undid the wards too. I don't think she had access to TP (else she'd have gotten out herself I think) but she definitely has the knowledge/experience to unravel whatever Cadsuane set up.

HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 10:53 PM
The theory about Sorilea provides a quote from BS where he implies, by means of not refuting the question, that Elza was the one to undo the wards. He also implies that Shaidar Haran taught her how to do it, but as Terez pointed out he didn't say that specifically. He could have just been dissembling.

arioch
11-14-2010, 11:06 PM
The theory about Sorilea provides a quote from BS where he implies, by means of not refuting the question, that Elza was the one to undo the wards. He also implies that Shaidar Haran taught her how to do it, but as Terez pointed out he didn't say that specifically. He could have just been dissembling.

BS also said that Rand has met Sorilea off-screen since his return from Dragonmount, and DFs are now utterly incapable of looking at Rand, so I'm going to guess she's not.

HunterOTS
11-14-2010, 11:12 PM
Yea I was never refuting that she is not a darkfriend, I was just defending the soundness of the theory, which was made after TGS. In light ToM it might be disproved but I'm not convinced. Just because Rand met with Sorilea off-screen doesn't necessarily mean she's not a darkfriend. What does he mean by "met" with her? Maybe they were at the same place at the same time but he didn't speak with her. She could have just started talking to someone else so it wasn't obvious that she can't look at him. And all he said was that he thinks Rand met with her. That's very vague.

Terez
11-15-2010, 02:36 AM
Except after the Maradon rescue we now know Darkfriends actually cannot look at Rand's "aura".
Not true. Maradon was obviously a special case; Weiramon and Anaiyella didn't act anything like that. It probably had to do with all that channeling.

Brandon Sanderson has also said that Rand has met Sorilea at least off screen since his return.
That's not quite what he said.

The main focus of Verin's letter to Rand did not deal with outing DFs in hiss retinue but instead offered hints and suggestions on the rulers not yet accounted for.
What? How would you know what the 'main focus' of her letter was? Do you know something we don't?

dominominic
11-15-2010, 02:57 AM
Maybe he/she knows what's in Galad's letter too?

HunterOTS
11-15-2010, 03:27 AM
Verin's letter Rand:

Dear Dragon,

Weiramon isn't just a jackass, he's also a darkfriend. Oh yeah, Anaiyella is too.

Well, that's all.

Love,

Brown Mama


P.S. I'm Black Ajah.

P.P.S. I'm dead now.

Grig
11-15-2010, 12:55 PM
Weiramon and Anaiyella didn't act anything like that.

It's rather explicit that they have difficulty meeting his eyes. The one Darkfriend in Maradon put out his/her (don't remember which was which) eyes because they could not stand even his remote presence when he was slaughtering Shadowspawn. It's pretty obviously only a difference in scale, not a difference in kind.

morat'corlm
11-15-2010, 01:05 PM
Near the end of the line, Weiramon kept glancing at Rand, then looking away. The tall man had thinning gray hair, his beard oiled to a point.
Rand eventually reached him. "Meet my eyes, Weiramon," Rand said softly.
"My Lord Dragon, surely I am not worthy toľ"
"Do it."
Weiramon did so with an odd difficulty. He looked as if he was gritting his teeth, his eyes watering.

[...]

Weiramon tried to bluster, but Rand took a step closer. Weiramon's eyes opened wide, and Anaiyella cried out, shading her face.
Weiramon and Anaiyella certainly did act like that.

alleluia_cone
11-15-2010, 01:42 PM
Speaking of Anaiyella, is there any sense that Lady Ailil is a Darkfriend as well? After all, she was friends with Anaiyella, although, it is possible that Anaiyella turned Darkfriend after Ailil went back to Cairhien.

morat'corlm
11-15-2010, 01:48 PM
Speaking of Anaiyella, is there any sense that Lady Ailil is a Darkfriend as well? After all, she was friends with Anaiyella, although, it is possible that Anaiyella turned Darkfriend after Ailil went back to Cairhien.If so, Verin certainly could have told him, considering the interrogation/probable Compulsion she gave Ailil in Winter's Heart.

Ailil's a 'friend' of Shalon's too, though, and Shalon doesn't seem to be a Darkfriend. On the other hand, she and Anaiyella do seem to have some 'association':
Anaiyella stood holding her mount’s reins, glaring from the mill of men and steel to Rand. It was Ailil who turned him onto his back. Kneeling there, she looked down at him with an unreadable expression in her big dark eyes. He could not seem to move. He felt drained. He was not sure he could blink. Screams and the clash of steel rang in his ears.

“If he dies on our hands, Bashere will hang both of us!” Anaiyella certainly was not simpering now. “If those black-coated monsters get hold of us . . . !” She shuddered, and bent closer to Ailil, gesturing with a belt knife he had not noticed in her hand before. A ruby sparkled blood-red on the hilt. “Your Lance-captain could break off enough men to get us away. We could be miles away before he’s found, and back to our estates by the time—”

“I think he can hear us,” Ailil broke in calmly. Her red-gloved hands moved at her waist. Sheathing a belt knife? Or drawing one? “If he dies here—” She cut off as sharply as the other woman had, and her head jerked around.

alleluia_cone
11-15-2010, 01:54 PM
On the other hand, she and Anaiyella do seem to have some 'association':

That passage is what I had in mind, although, it does seem that Ailil is not a Darkfriend based on her subsequent actions.

Crispin's Crispian
11-15-2010, 02:25 PM
I don't think Sorilea appeared at all in ToM.

That's because she was buying some killer sunglasses from a band of Tinkers. She can't Travel, remember...


Anyway, the whole thing about the Maradon DF gouging out his eyes I always took for something about what Rand did. Yes, clearly it was painful for Weiramon and Anaiyella to look at Rand, but that's quite a stretch from leaping out a window or pulling a self-Stooge. Nyuk.

The Angry Druid
11-15-2010, 03:12 PM
Regarding Sorilea, I think the DF Sorilea theory was borne of the fact she knew the location and wards in Cadsuane's room when almost no one else did. Further, she called Min away from Rand in LoC when he was kidnapped, and Cadsuane (I believe) in tGS when Semi and Elza struck.

The other stuff was in support, but those events certainly made a pretty good case, and certainly the heart of the case.

Having said that, if Rand has met Sorilea, he may not have looked into her eyes directly. If he has, he'll know. Terez is just flat wrong there. Even IF Verin tipped him off (which is still unknown, especially regarding Anaiyella (sp)), he still needed to look into their eyes for confirmation. And they very much DID act like those in Maradon.

Crispin's Crispian
11-15-2010, 03:31 PM
You mean the part where Weiramon gouged out his eyes? Time for a reread!

All kidding aside...it's not the same thing. That said, Rand would be able to tell if he was looking Sorilea right in the eyes, unless her will is so rock-solid that she could withstand the pain and fear. Even Weiramon had enough gumption to actually look. Sorilea might be the one to pull it off.

All that said, I don't even see this as a possibility. Rand's not going to host staring contests with amongst his followers to cull out the bad guys. If it comes down to it, sure, I suppose he might get a funny feeling looking at Sorilea and summon her closer, but really...it's much more likely that she's going to be outed by someone else or just try betray him again.

If she's even a DF.

Weiramon
11-15-2010, 03:59 PM
Even Weiramon had enough gumption to actually look.

You praise with faint damns.

Crispin's Crispian
11-15-2010, 04:34 PM
You praise with faint damns.

I figure you need all the help you can get right now.