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View Full Version : Is the Dark One sexist?


amaginon
11-16-2010, 07:10 AM
Every female forsaken has been broken in some way. Almost all are now slaves to Moridin and the majority has been raped. All the male forsaken (and i include Aran'Gar) just seem to die. No male has been "broken" to the will of others (not even Asmodean), or denigrated or raped.

Just something that has started to seem quite strange to me

HunterOTS
11-16-2010, 07:26 AM
Maybe the DO has mommy issues. The creator spanked him sent him to time out and he's pissed still.

GonzoTheGreat
11-16-2010, 07:31 AM
If Egwene had been the premier Champion of the Light this time, then most female Forsaken would have been dead. True, that would have required rather massive cheating from the DO, in order to get that result, but I am confident he would have been willing to do that.
I am not quite sure how the male Forsaken would have ended up in this scenario. Perhaps someone can work that out from first principles.

David Selig
11-16-2010, 07:31 AM
I guess Shaidar Haran is strictly straight. Though this still doesn't explain why he didn't rape Aran'gar back in LoC, whose failure in TEOTW was really pathetic.

Maybe the Dark One should've created a gay version of him to punish the male Forsaken. But there's so few of them left now it would be pointless.

maacaroni
11-16-2010, 07:36 AM
He's EEEvil. Why not sexist too?

And how do you really know that old Shady H doesn't bat for both sides?

SixPips
11-16-2010, 07:37 AM
I never considered Shadar Haran to be raping them. Torturing them to the brink of insanity? all in a day's work. But keep this in mind: he is the hand of the Dark One, who we haven't known to have any sexual affectations, Thus the Halima body for Aran'gar, so why would his personification rape as punishment when he can cause pain in so many other devious ways?

Ishara
11-16-2010, 07:41 AM
The DO may not be, but I'd say I'm definitely getting that impression (sadly) from RJ and BS now. :(

SixPips
11-16-2010, 08:06 AM
The DO may not be, but I'd say I'm definitely getting that impression (sadly) from RJ and BS now. :(

I won't think they are sexist unless Min dies. She's the only woman in the series who is tolerable, with the possible exception of Tuon in her own weird way.

WinespringBrother
11-16-2010, 08:54 AM
Every female forsaken has been broken in some way. Almost all are now slaves to Moridin and the majority has been raped. All the male forsaken (and i include Aran'Gar) just seem to die. No male has been "broken" to the will of others (not even Asmodean), or denigrated or raped.

Just something that has started to seem quite strange to me

Wouldn't that be "straightist" in this case?

BTW, Mat was broken, in case you've forgotten... (though not by the Dark One, obviously)

Zoltar
11-16-2010, 10:10 AM
I never considered Shadar Haran to be raping them. Torturing them to the brink of insanity? all in a day's work. But keep this in mind: he is the hand of the Dark One, who we haven't known to have any sexual affectations, Thus the Halima body for Aran'gar, so why would his personification rape as punishment when he can cause pain in so many other devious ways?

RJ is quoted saying that SH has raped them.


And I think it's just due to the male Forsaken having bad luck.

Rahvin - balefired.
Be'lal - balefired.
Asmo - not balefired, but not able to be resurrected
Sammy - Mashadar'd.

Demandred and Moridin still live, and Aginor/Balthamel didn't fail quite so bad, they killed the Green Man.

The female Forsaken just kinda suck, lol.
Lanfear - bitch and moan about LTT, gets trapped by the 'Finns, then Mindtrapped.
Moggy - gets caught by Elayne & Co., rescued and Mindtrapped
Semi - well, she got what was coming to her
Graendal - sucks considerably less than the other female Forsaken
Mesaana - maybe she still does have a chance? Dunno. If she was killed and resurrected, would she be back to normal? I'm guessing not.

Terez
11-16-2010, 10:51 AM
Myrddraal like women. Maybe there is an occasional one that likes men. Who knows? I don't think it's terribly sexist; if anything it's slightly homophobic. But we have known for some time that RJ favored lesbians to gay men, and why. No need to pretend like it's something new.

I would like for Demandred to get buttraped by Shaidar Haran, though. That would be awesome. Maybe we can convince Brandon to put it in...

alleluia_cone
11-16-2010, 11:01 AM
Considering that the Dark One is consistently referred to as a "he," isn't is reasonable to assume that he would be a sexist?

He's supposed to be evil, capricious, unfair, and so forth, thus, it all makes perfect sense. I think it would be more unrealistic if he actually treated the women equal to the men.

Nei
11-16-2010, 11:11 AM
I would like for Demandred to get buttraped by Shaidar Haran, though. That would be awesome. Maybe we can convince Brandon to put it in...

I second this.

I would love to see some obvious guy on guy going on. As it is we're just stuck with our Bornhald/Byar shipping and Byar just died so that's the end of that.

Terez
11-16-2010, 11:18 AM
I second this.

I would love to see some obvious guy on guy going on. As it is we're just stuck with our Bornhald/Byar shipping and Byar just died so that's the end of that.
If I were to write wotslash, I'd ship Rand/Moridin. Probably with an alternate ending. :D

GonzoTheGreat
11-16-2010, 11:51 AM
All right, I just learned the meaning of the verb "to ship", which I have to say is not a naval term I'd encountered before in quite this way.

Terez
11-16-2010, 11:59 AM
In this case, Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ship) is probably your best bet.

GonzoTheGreat
11-16-2010, 12:02 PM
That's what I used, I should probably have supplied a link myself.

dominominic
11-16-2010, 01:42 PM
I would like for Demandred to get buttraped by Shaidar Haran, though. That would be awesome. Maybe we can convince Brandon to put it in...

That's quite an entendre you've got there.

Terez
11-16-2010, 01:44 PM
I was wondering how long it would take someone to comment on that. But honestly I didn't do it on purpose this time - I only noticed after I'd posted.

jana
11-16-2010, 01:48 PM
maybe Shaidar Haran wanted the male forsaken but he was afraid of how Moridin would look at him after he came out of the closet.

dominominic
11-16-2010, 01:50 PM
I was wondering how long it would take someone to comment on that. But honestly I didn't do it on purpose this time - I only noticed after I'd posted.

The best ones are always accidents.

Crispin's Crispian
11-16-2010, 03:35 PM
I would like for Demandred to get buttraped by Shaidar Haran, though. That would be awesome. Maybe we can convince Brandon to put it in...
Awesome? I don't see why it would be. Call me old-fashioned, but I didn't feel particularly vindicated when the women were raped, though I did feel sympathy despite their evil.

I totally get the fairness angle, but I guess I don't see rape as ever being an appropriate punishment.

dominominic
11-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Demandred might see being butt-raped by Shaidar Haran before Lews Therand as a kind of moral victory.

Crispin's Crispian
11-16-2010, 03:46 PM
Demandred might see being butt-raped by Shaidar Haran before Lews Therand as a kind of moral victory.

OK...this made me LOL.

Ha! Take that, LT!

morat'corlm
11-16-2010, 03:56 PM
The DO may not be, but I'd say I'm definitely getting that impression (sadly) from RJ and BS now.Just now? Really?

I guess I figured that the in-text justification would be that this is what comes of making your avatar a Myrddraal; its particular desires bleed through. But yes, the true explanation is that the authors find it dramatic and/or titillating.

dominominic
11-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Just now? Really?

I guess I figured that the in-text justification would be that this is what comes of making your avatar a Myrddraal; its particular desires bleed through. But yes, the true explanation is that the authors find it dramatic and/or titillating.

It might just be that they want these characters to be thoroughly humiliated.

Or to show that the Shadow doesn't play favourites with it's evilness.

Terez
11-16-2010, 04:06 PM
Awesome? I don't see why it would be. Call me old-fashioned, but I didn't feel particularly vindicated when the women were raped, though I did feel sympathy despite their evil.

I totally get the fairness angle, but I guess I don't see rape as ever being an appropriate punishment.
It was a joke, yo.

Nafro
11-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Would a post-failure anal rape of Demandred put this theory to rest?

dominominic
11-16-2010, 04:17 PM
Would a post-failure anal rape of Demandred put this theory to rest?

Maybe. But what if Taim was seen sitting delicately in a following scene? What then?

Crispin's Crispian
11-16-2010, 04:36 PM
It was a joke, yo.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/jalapenoguy/SeriousBusiness.png

dominominic
11-16-2010, 04:38 PM
This is my favourite thread ever.

It just caused me to wonder if Myrdraal sperm vanishes in shadow.

Crispin's Crispian
11-16-2010, 04:40 PM
This is my favourite thread ever.

It just caused me to wonder if Myrdraal sperm vanishes in shadow.

"Narg confused."

jana
11-16-2010, 04:44 PM
It just caused me to wonder if Myrdraal sperm vanishes in shadow.

It's like the smoke monster in Lost.

I'm going to go away now.

dominominic
11-16-2010, 04:44 PM
Oh wait, they're all sterile aren't they? Just like Rama the Cama. Nevermind.

Terez
11-16-2010, 05:13 PM
They are only thought to be sterile; the truth is that they only have the ability to impregnate men.

dominominic
11-16-2010, 05:44 PM
They are only thought to be sterile; the truth is that they only have the ability to impregnate men.

Men who can channel.

So Taim is actually running a sex-tourism resort for Myrdraal? And controlling the availability of his package holidays with the dreamspike in order to keep supply below demand, thus keeping prices artificially inflated.

It's all so obvious now.

Tamyrlin
11-17-2010, 01:18 AM
This thread was seen as a joke, and is being quite thoroughly derailed and lambasted as one.

And I do sense the difference between sincerely wishing harm on a character and making a joke. But I'd appreciate it if I stopped seeing sex tourism, shadow sperm and buttrape comments.

Servus Christi
11-17-2010, 01:24 AM
I had a chance to have my butt raped once on a sex tour. I'd drunk one too many Shadow Sperm Martinis. Not for the feint of heart I tell you!