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tiredofbuttons
11-17-2010, 12:18 PM
With extra cheese.

If Rand had his hand would he be the best swordsman in the land?

Ok enough rhyming. He has the most experience by a few hundred years. Would he be ridiculous? Or since most of it wouldn't be battle hardened (but the last several years was) would he be better but still not as good as Lan?

Nafro
11-17-2010, 12:32 PM
Maybe. I would list Rand, Gawyn, Galad and Lan as the best swordsmen in the lan. However, Mat is the most dangerous, non OP, man in the land for sure.

Servus Christi
11-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Lan's #1 Blademaster, then Galad at #2 and pulling up #3 is Gawyn who is more lucky than he thinks. If Rand still had his other hand I would rank him either with Galad or just above. But with his integration.. I don't know. I would love to watch that Lan vs Lews Therin fight.

Until we know a bit more about the nature of Mat's luck, I am hesitant to judge him.

mokaloka99
11-17-2010, 02:07 PM
In one of RJ's interviews he said that Rand PreHandloss, was better than Galad.

netslider
11-17-2010, 02:33 PM
I'd say Gawyn, Lan, couple people in between that we don't know, Rand, more people we don't know, Galad.

Davian93
11-17-2010, 02:39 PM
BS just answered this in a Q & A.

Its Lan, Galad, Gawyn in that order. Rand would have been 2nd had he still had his hand.

Gawyn isnt as good as he thinks he is was the gist of the answer.

Toss the dice
11-17-2010, 03:05 PM
Lan is a no-brainer #1. Throughout the entire series, he is known for it, it even could be considered one of his themes.

After Lan, it gets muddy. In no particular order you have: Rand, Galad, Sleete, and Gawyn. Valda and Toram would be in the list as well, but they are dead. Furthermore, since one could consider both Valda and Toram "average blademasters," that essentially makes the rest of the list (other than Lan), "average blademasters" as well. The one guy in the list after Lan who has something else going for him is Sleete, who had actually beat Lan 2 out of 7 times or something - sparring.

Also, sure Rand has the benefit of extra age, in the form of memories - but I don't think you can really count that. For this discussion, you would have to take him right before he lost his hand, and at that point he was in exactly the same league as Toram, one of the pack of average blademasters. While one could hypothesize how good Rand MIGHT be if he had both his hands, along with his current Lews Therin memories, thats all that will remain - hypothesis and guesses, barring something happening and him having two hands again.

So yeah, my list:

1. Lan, hands down
2. Sleete
3-5. Rand, Galad, Gawyn

After that, you have the rest of the blademasters, like say Tam and Gareth Bryne, Ituralde, etc -- and the guys who are very good with the sword but aren't actually blademasters. Perhaps people like Aram, possibly Narishma, etc.

As for the Mat debate, of course Mat doesn't count since he doesn't use a sword. However, if you wanted to put him in the list and opened it up to other weapons, he would be #1 or #2, no contest. I am throwing out his luck, his ta'veren nature, everything but his memories. With those memories and instinctual memories augmenting his already impressive skills, not to mention his speed and quickness - he's one bad dude. I would put him at #1, but the books heavily tout that Lan is the best, essentially the best you can be, at least for the current time. Mat is the wildcard, the guy who doesn't use a sword, but is insanely quick and has thousands of memories from soldiers and warriors. In a very real way, he IS those soldiers and warriors, all wrapped into one person. He can't tell the difference between one of their memories and his own unless he puts effort into it. So yeah, I would NARROWLY put Lan at #1 (just because), but any sort of debate that ANYONE ELSE is better than Mat would be laughable. Again, luck and ta'veren-ness aside. We are talking pure skills here.

Nafro
11-17-2010, 03:08 PM
Gawyn beat Sleete plus another warder at the same time. As stated by BS, Galad is better than Gawyn. Mat took both Galad and Gawyn at the same time pre-memories. Mat would destroy Lan's old ass.

tiredofbuttons
11-17-2010, 03:16 PM
Also, sure Rand has the benefit of extra age, in the form of memories - but I don't think you can really count that.

The whole point of the question was if you counted them. Otherwise the question had already been answered by RJ and BS.

Toss the dice
11-17-2010, 03:23 PM
The whole point of the question was if you counted them. Otherwise the question had already been answered by RJ and BS.

Yeah I saw that. Figured I would put in my 2 cents from my perspective anyway. Was pretty dead on. :)

Raralith
11-17-2010, 03:49 PM
While not sword blademaster, I'm pretty sure Matt would be considered the best. Luck, battle memories, and battles in his current time pretty much put him in the most experienced and luck is a major factor in fighting. Rand is probably low on the list simply because he only has 1 hand, and while he probably has a lot of memory from LTT's existance, that still doesn't overcome the 1 handed problem in my opinion.

tiredofbuttons
11-17-2010, 03:55 PM
While not sword blademaster, I'm pretty sure Matt would be considered the best. Luck, battle memories, and battles in his current time pretty much put him in the most experienced and luck is a major factor in fighting. Rand is probably low on the list simply because he only has 1 hand, and while he probably has a lot of memory from LTT's existance, that still doesn't overcome the 1 handed problem in my opinion.

Yay another person who can't read! ;-)

sheikh chilli
11-17-2010, 04:23 PM
i reckon gawyn is the most dangerous of the lot after lan.

Daekyras
11-17-2010, 05:08 PM
gawyn = john cena.

Servus Christi
11-17-2010, 06:17 PM
i reckon gawyn is the most dangerous of the lot after lan.

Gawyn is just lucky.

mokaloka99
11-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Here i will post the exact quotes from the interview page. This is from the Writers of the books. So it is set in stone until Brandon changes his mind. No more interpretations of who you think is the best. This is as it is. Period.


"sleepinghour on Twitter 8 November 2010

Who is the best swordsman in WoT right now? Lan, Galad, or Gawyn?
Brandon
Lan. Then Galad. Then Gawyn. Gawyn is luckier than he thinks he is."


"DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting


Q: If Galad and Rand were to fight with swords, who would win?
RJ: Well, it's not going to happen. I would say Rand would, at least until recently (Knife of Dreams).




1) LAN
2) Pre KoD Rand
3) Galad
4) Gawyn

Obviously Rand isnt ranked anymore and Galad and Gawyn could have swapped places. Who knows what each has been through swords and practice wise. The only concrete evidence we have is what was stated by the authors themselves.

Lupusdeusest
11-17-2010, 06:19 PM
Before ToM, I would have said Gawyn, purely because of the Idiot Factor.

Servus Christi
11-17-2010, 06:24 PM
Furthermore, since one could consider both Valda and Toram "average blademasters,"

No you couldn't. Maybe Toram but Valda was considered one of the finest swordsman in the world. Men like Bryne, Ituralde, Tam and the like would be the "average" blademaster with Lan, Galad, Valda and indeed Gawyn coming up cream of the crop.

Fain Jarstrider
11-17-2010, 06:28 PM
I think Lan has somehow actually kept getting better as hes got older and those spars with Sleete were a long time ago.
I would include Lans Arafellin (dark)friend from NS as admitted by Lan himself was a better swordsman but current Lan is better than Lan 20 years ago ;p

Re: Mat... LOL as a wildcard in just a general list of badasses he would probably top the list even now with 1 eye, hes just too lucky (the random knife throw with the rabbit) and its great that even the greatest swordsmen ever to live can end up getting beaten by a farmer with a staff (to paraphrase Bryne).

Grig
11-17-2010, 06:32 PM
Maybe Toram but Valda was considered one of the finest swordsman in the world.

How can you square this with him performing very well against 2-handed Rand (who was > Galad and Gawyn per RJ) as well as bloodying Lan (who is the best bar none, per Sanderson)?

Servus Christi
11-17-2010, 06:37 PM
How can you square this with him performing very well against 2-handed Rand (who was > Galad and Gawyn per RJ) as well as bloodying Lan (who is the best bar none, per Sanderson)?

Indeed I can't. I was too focused on Valda. Well regalrdess, these men aren't the "average" for the blademaster class.

David Selig
11-17-2010, 06:44 PM
Whoever the plot needs to win the fight, does so, opften against all logic, so I've long given up on trying to rank them.

Just wanted to note that LTT's experience with a sword were of fencing as a sport. He probably never used a sword in a real battle given that he was a channeller and his Age had plenty of more advanced weapons. Even if he had trained it for centuries (which is debatable), his experience is just not as valuable IMO as Lan's decades of killing people, Trollocs and Fades in battle.

Davian93
11-17-2010, 07:05 PM
Whoever the plot needs to win the fight, does so, opften against all logic, so I've long given up on trying to rank them.

Just wanted to note that LTT's experience with a sword were of fencing as a sport. He probably never used a sword in a real battle given that he was a channeller and his Age had plenty of more advanced weapons. Even if he had trained it for centuries (which is debatable), his experience is just not as valuable IMO as Lan's decades of killing people, Trollocs and Fades in battle.

Though there is the comment by Be'lal that belies that theory...



TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 55 - What Is Written in Prophecy
The Forsaken laughed, amused, swinging his blade in quick flourishes to either side of him; the black fire roared as if swift passage through the air quickened it. "You were a greater swordsman, once, Lews Therin," he said mockingly. "Do you remember when we took that tame sport called swords and learned to kill with it, as the old volumes said men once had? Do you remember even one of those desperate battles, even one of our dire defeats? Of course not. You remember nothing, do you? This time you have not learned enough. This time, Lews Therin, I will kill you." Be'lal's mockery deepened. "Perhaps if you take Callandor, you might extend your life a little longer. A little longer."

Kinda sounds like they fought with swords in combat situations a few times.

David Selig
11-17-2010, 07:35 PM
I guess I remembered it wrong then.

Kind of weird that two powerful channellers would use swords in battles, in a world where there are far better weapons available, but I guess the Rule of Cool applies here.

Servus Christi
11-17-2010, 07:43 PM
Well, in the tempest (Go Brandon ;)!) of battle with powerful channellers on both sides, the sword could have been a good middle ground.

They could have also used the sword during the Collapse to lethal effectiveness. Perhaps Lews Therin was challenged to a duel some day?

morat'corlm
11-17-2010, 07:45 PM
I don't think the "desperate battles and dire defeats" sentence is necessarily connected to swordfighting, though.

For that matter, I don't see anything that indicates "we took that tame sport called swords and learned to kill with it" means that Lews Therin and Be'lal were the ones who invented killing with blades. They're two of 14 survivors from that age; they have a right to use "we" broadly.

(Did they kill with blades before the end, when the Standing Flows were destroyed?)

Neilbert
11-17-2010, 10:27 PM
How can you square this with him performing very well against 2-handed Rand (who was > Galad and Gawyn per RJ) as well as bloodying Lan (who is the best bar none, per Sanderson)?

Rand was wearing gloves.

This is kind of silly. Just because Lan is the "best" doesn't mean that if Lan fought Galad, Lan would be guaranteed to win. It just means that the odds favor Lan. There isn't a ton of distance between the fighters here, the difference that wins it could easily be something as dumb as who had the better breakfast that morning.

Just a Reader
11-18-2010, 03:33 AM
I wouldn't take that question too seriously, since the whole swordfighting-thing is based more on dramatics than reality.

Take that Galad-Valda(???)-duell, early in TGS. They start fighting, test one another, people go and get a coffee...
A great narrative tool to show more about the combatant, but highly unrealistic.

Take a look at this and ask yourself, how much time for thought would you have in a situation like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA

Grig
11-18-2010, 10:35 AM
There isn't a ton of distance between the fighters here

That's exactly what I was trying to point out. It seemed odd to put Riatin in an "average blademaster" category implying there was a whole different and higher tier, so I provided examples of him performing quite well against those the authors denoted as "the best".

Davian93
11-18-2010, 10:49 AM
Rand was wearing gloves.

This is kind of silly. Just because Lan is the "best" doesn't mean that if Lan fought Galad, Lan would be guaranteed to win. It just means that the odds favor Lan. There isn't a ton of distance between the fighters here, the difference that wins it could easily be something as dumb as who had the better breakfast that morning.

Rand was also sparring while Toram was trying to kill Rand...big difference in mentality. Toram was taking the fight a bit more seriously.

GonzoTheGreat
11-18-2010, 10:59 AM
Rand was also sparring while Toram was trying to kill Rand...big difference in mentality. Toram was taking the fight a bit more seriously.To quote another book on this:
"Mood?" Halleck's voice betrayed his outrage even through the shield's filtering. "What has mood to do with it? You fight when the necessity arises - no matter the mood! Mood's a thing for cattle or making love or the baliset. It's not for fighting."Which brings back a question I've never really found an answer to before, so perhaps someone here can tell me: what kind of mood would be appropriate for "cattle"?

* Probably. The chapters are not numbered, and I counted a bit quickly. May have missed a chapter.

Jonai
11-18-2010, 11:36 AM
There's Be'lal's comments and then of course Sammael's scar. Nothing says that LTT did it with a sword but it seems fairly- likely. And if he did - well Sammy was the world champion, so.. I can see something like the Moggy-Nyn duel going on while at the same time fighting with swords. You can only channel for so long. An hour of constant channeling wears out even a strong channeler. In world wide war that lasted decades, I imagine you'd eventually have to fall back on conventional means.

morat'corlm
11-18-2010, 09:57 PM
Which brings back a question I've never really found an answer to before, so perhaps someone here can tell me: what kind of mood would be appropriate for "cattle"This just occurs to me decades after reading that for the first time, but it could just be a really, really awful pun.

The Immortal One
11-19-2010, 09:10 AM
I don't know if it makes any difference to your opinions, but Rand had quite a bit of training with spears and the Aiel way of fighting with hands and feet - enough to kill two Warders in mere seconds (until being caught in weaves of air) after being held captive in a box all day (and likely for several days before).

Lan watched those training sessions and "seemed to know somthing of it" but I very much doubt either Galad or Gawyn had any of that kind of training at all.

(Wow, I just noticed I'm an Elder now. When did that happen?!)

Caveatar
11-19-2010, 09:19 AM
To quote another book on this:
Which brings back a question I've never really found an answer to before, so perhaps someone here can tell me: what kind of mood would be appropriate for "cattle"?



A neighbor of mine had a herd of cattle and they often 'mooed'. :D

Bryan
11-19-2010, 12:38 PM
Why can't Rand channel a sword that is an extension of his arm? Cause then the missing hand wouldn't be a problem and he could use his other hand to help control it.

Toss the dice
11-19-2010, 03:08 PM
This is kind of silly. Just because Lan is the "best" doesn't mean that if Lan fought Galad, Lan would be guaranteed to win. It just means that the odds favor Lan. There isn't a ton of distance between the fighters here, the difference that wins it could easily be something as dumb as who had the better breakfast that morning.

Exactly. I classified Toram Riatin as an "average blademaster" because I see him as one, as are virtually all others, to me. In fact the only one who isn't an "average blademaster" to me would be Lan, who is a half-step above everyone else. Obviously I wouldn't put Tam or even Gareth Bryne in the "average blademaster" category because they're older. They would be lower than the likes of Rand (2-hands), Galad, Gawyn, and Toram.

When Toram fought Lan, he bloodied him because he IS a blademaster. Lan ended up winning, and while Lan IS better than Toram, that doesn't mean Toram had no chance to win, he was merely unfavored.

Toss the dice
11-19-2010, 03:21 PM
No you couldn't. Maybe Toram but Valda was considered one of the finest swordsman in the world. Men like Bryne, Ituralde, Tam and the like would be the "average" blademaster with Lan, Galad, Valda and indeed Gawyn coming up cream of the crop.

You're misunderstanding. Exactly how many "average blademasters" do you think there are in the world? You speak as if there's fifty, or eighty.

"Average blademaster" = one of the finest swordsmen in the world. Hence the blademaster. (there are very few blademasters, otherwise the title wouldn't be worth much). Again, I would consider Tam, Ituralde, and Bryne (among other older blademasters), NOT average blademasters anymore, simply because they're older and slower. They were men that WERE true blademasters (aka average blademasters) back in the day, but since they could be freakin 90 years old and still officially be blademasters (and have their sword obviously) -- well you see the point. You're making this a whole hell of a lot more difficult than it has to be.

Again, I consider "average blademasters" as those that are just that - your average blademaster, not yet old and past their prime years, and not having the name Lan Mandragoran.

morat'corlm
11-19-2010, 05:22 PM
Fifty or eighty would not be an unreasonable number given a Wetlands+Seanchan population of what? Thirty or forty million? Do Sharans have blademasters?

z10
11-19-2010, 05:31 PM
I'm sorry if this has been asked many times before but I am curious why Rand's hand didn't go back to normal after he balefired Semihrage?

David Selig
11-19-2010, 05:36 PM
Because balefiring removes only the effects of the actions of the balefired person in the last seconds/minutes/hours before that, depending on the strength of the balefire weave. Rand's loss of hand was weeks ago.

z10
11-19-2010, 05:42 PM
Ah, I did not know that there was a time limit upon balefire. Where is that mentioned in the books?

morat'corlm
11-19-2010, 05:47 PM
Ah, I did not know that there was a time limit upon balefire. Where is that mentioned in the books?The greater the power of the balefire, the further back in time it ceases to exist. The strongest I can manage will remove only a few seconds from the Pattern. You are much stronger. Very much so.There is a great deal more about balefire in the interview database (https://docs.google.com/View?docID=dcjspjqg_59g3crchdk&revision=_latest).

z10
11-19-2010, 06:07 PM
thanks morat'corlm :)

manolin
11-23-2010, 04:17 AM
can anyone give me a reference to toram raitan and lan fighting. can't place where that happened.

morat'corlm
11-23-2010, 04:33 AM
It was in Winter's Heart, "Blue Carp Street", and entirely 'off-screen'.
Only when Lan turned away from Fain did Rand realize someone else was in the room, a tall pale man who came almost eagerly to meet the Warder blade to blade. Toram Riatin’s face was haggard, but he flowed into the dance of swords with the grace of the blademaster he was. Lan met him with an equal grace, a dance of steel and death.
[...]
A dark wetness stained the left side of Lan’s coat, but his sword was sheathed, proof of who had danced that dance the better.

manolin
11-23-2010, 04:54 AM
oh yeah. thanks for the ref. Its just that WH is a book i have never reread. It was the worst of the series for me.

In any outright fights between blademasters, both get injured majorly - valda injured galad fairly seriously. This example of toram and lan; and earlier of toram and rand. The difference is minute, but so what, the difference betwn top ranked sportsman is so thin also. generally.

I say cheers for the OP/TP; all this sweat and blood of bladefighting, as interesting as it reads, is not good enough some lazy people. I have always wondered that Mat, if he had not been so influenced in his childhood, would have lusted after OP/TP- he has the mark of a true chiller.

Toss the dice
11-24-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm sorry if this has been asked many times before but I am curious why Rand's hand didn't go back to normal after he balefired Semihrage?

Because his balefire wasn't powerful enough to erase what Semirhage did that far back in time. The stronger the balefire, the further back it "erases."

Toss the dice
11-24-2010, 03:40 PM
Fifty or eighty would not be an unreasonable number given a Wetlands+Seanchan population of what? Thirty or forty million? Do Sharans have blademasters?

I suppose if you included Seanchan, 50 or 80 could be reasonable, as Seanchan is far bigger in population than the Wetlands. I guess my main point was that the reader only actually reads about a mere handful of blademasters in the Wetlands, and blademasters are supposed to be very rare indeed. The total number is not given, but since other than a few older ones like Tam, Bryne, or Ituralde - Rand, Galad, Gawyn, along with Lan - are essentially the only ones we know about. The term "average blademaster" is something I made up to use, because thats how I see it, and I always viewed the vast majority of blademasters (again, a handful that we know about) as "average blademasters." They are all very very good, but nothing super spectacular as blademasters go, except Lan, who is a step ahead of the rest.

Sooner1222
11-24-2010, 07:00 PM
I think Gawyn is in for a surprise when he actually has to fight Shadowspawn. I think he will find it just as difficult as Galad did.

Rand, Lan, Mat, and Perrin and the Aiel are about the only ones that I remember making it look easy against Shadowspawn, and even they have their difficulties at time. Except for Lan anyway.

subwoofer
11-24-2010, 09:26 PM
Everyone is bonkers. Lan is the Man. Bar none. His unborn children could kick everyone's butt.:p Geeze! That we are even debating this.;)

subwoofer
11-24-2010, 09:32 PM
Here- from Terez's interview database:
sleepinghour on Twitter 8 November 2010
Who is the best swordsman in WoT right now? Lan, Galad, or Gawyn?
Brandon
Lan. Then Galad. Then Gawyn. Gawyn is luckier than he thinks he is.


James Oliver Rigney III (RJ's nephew)

RJ: Rand is second only to Lan with the sword.3

3 Or at least, he was before he lost his hand.

Bryan
11-24-2010, 09:40 PM
Why can't Rand channel a sword that is an extension of his arm? Cause then the missing hand wouldn't be a problem and he could use his other hand to help control it.

Still curious about this. Seems like it would be possible. If he can have a sword of Power, then I would think he could have one flowing right out of his arm itself.

shadar
11-24-2010, 09:53 PM
I really don't like that quote of BS -- I know it's the Word of God and all -- but there just hasn't been anything in-books to support the idea that Galad is that much better than Gawyn now.
Consider:

Gawyn outstripped Sleete (considered one of the best of the warders -- therefore one of the better blademasters) plus one
Hammar and Coulin were considered top fighters
The Blood Knifes -- 3 ter'angreal assisted killers
And finally -- he now has the warder bond. So while Galad may have been a slightly better fighter -- If you assume the warder bond gives you an extra 5% -- I can't see how Galad is supposed to be just that good?


Anyway - with channeling - it goes to Rand. Without - it goes to Mat (for luck more than for skill).

Plurality
11-25-2010, 04:11 AM
I think it's a bit much to say that the edge goes to Mat just because of luck. Throughout the series, he's always been shown as the epitome of the best kick-ass fighter. Even early on, when he beat Galad and Gawyn together with a quarterstaff, he was dangerous; after he got the ashendarai and all of the memories on how to use it, my impression is that he's basically completely unstoppable in hand-to-hand (with weapons) combat. The general impression I've gotten is that if Lan's a 10, and Galad's a 9, Mat is probably a 14. It shouldn't even be close enough to warrant a comparison.

GonzoTheGreat
11-25-2010, 04:25 AM
Still curious about this. Seems like it would be possible. If he can have a sword of Power, then I would think he could have one flowing right out of his arm itself.Such a sword would have a very different weight than ordinary swords, and, as a result, it would handle differently. Rand could learn to use that well, of course, if he simply devoted a couple of months or years of practice to it, like he had done with steel swords earlier. Remind me, please: how many months of spare time will Rand have before TG?

Daekyras
11-25-2010, 04:36 AM
I think it's a bit much to say that the edge goes to Mat just because of luck. Throughout the series, he's always been shown as the epitome of the best kick-ass fighter. Even early on, when he beat Galad and Gawyn together with a quarterstaff, he was dangerous; after he got the ashendarai and all of the memories on how to use it, my impression is that he's basically completely unstoppable in hand-to-hand (with weapons) combat. The general impression I've gotten is that if Lan's a 10, and Galad's a 9, Mat is probably a 14. It shouldn't even be close enough to warrant a comparison.

I think the best indicator of Mats prowess is in LoC. The scene near the beginning where the Aiel are transported in and attack him in his tent.

Mat, on his own fights them to a standstill, killing a few and wounding several others before stepping back having suffered minor wounds(not bad enought to force him to get healed).

When his soldiers step in to finsih the Aiel off, 8 of them die!

Just think about that, Mat held off enough Aiel to kill 8 soldiers. That is Bad ass.

Bryan
11-25-2010, 08:54 AM
Such a sword would have a very different weight than ordinary swords, and, as a result, it would handle differently. Rand could learn to use that well, of course, if he simply devoted a couple of months or years of practice to it, like he had done with steel swords earlier. Remind me, please: how many months of spare time will Rand have before TG?

He should be able to give it the weight/balance it needs to feel like a real sword. He makes the sword, he can give it the properties it needs to feel right. Remind me, please: what exactly is the problem here?

Tower of Ghanja
11-25-2010, 10:17 AM
If he can channel he doesn't need to be able to channel a sword. If he can't channel he's no longer a blademaster, but still highly skilled with immense T'averen qualities.

So if Rand were to go up against a blademaster, odds are the blademaster would suddenly have an embolism or severe hiccups, etc.

I don't think he has to worry about blademasters. Fain and Moridin and SH are enough I should think.

padfoot89
11-25-2010, 12:16 PM
Well, since SH blocks channeling, being a blade master might be of some help.

Tower of Ghanja
11-25-2010, 02:07 PM
SH blocks the channeling of those sworn to the DO, but can't necessarily affect those of the light (though perhaps SH's power increases closer to Shayol Ghul).

We shall see.

morat'corlm
11-25-2010, 07:00 PM
He should be able to give it the weight/balance it needs to feel like a real sword. He makes the sword, he can give it the properties it needs to feel right. Remind me, please: what exactly is the problem here?He no longer has a wrist, or a hand for that matter. He simply can't use a two-handed sword anymore, whether it's real or Power-made. A sword that's "an extension of his arm" would not be very maneuverable.

Mat's going to have problems as well with only one eye. I can't imagine he'll be able to throw knives anymore (without relying on his luck to make them fly true), though he might be able to use the spear.

subwoofer
11-25-2010, 10:35 PM
If he can channel he doesn't need to be able to channel a sword. If he can't channel he's no longer a blademaster, but still highly skilled with immense T'averen qualities.

So if Rand were to go up against a blademaster, odds are the blademaster would suddenly have an embolism or severe hiccups, etc.

I don't think he has to worry about blademasters. Fain and Moridin and SH are enough I should think.

Exactly! Rand could just turn everybody into turnips instead of putzing around with a sword. It's kinda like using Callandor as a sword. Yeah, you can do it, but it is a waste of time considering it can level a mountain without much effort.

Rand is beyond blades now.

As for the rest, nope, Lan's the Man. The rest are all feebs in comparison. If we wanna talk about common foes... well, Lan fights Myrddraal and Trollocs. Galad was fairly hard pressed when he had to deal with the same. I dunno, but I do believe that we've yet to see pretty princeling dealing with the beasties either. So Lan 1- princelings 0.

agkolbeck
11-26-2010, 12:00 AM
Tam al'Thor. I mean the guy held off a trolloc attack - he's what 60? He has an incredibly rare power wrought heron marked blade that he got in actual combat. He's teaching Perrin's entire army how to fight for the Last Battle. He's survived fighting Aiel on the losing side. He helped command an army. He doesn't have the heightened 'warder' thing going for him.


"I killed a man who was one, did it in front of witnesses, but I've never forgiven myself for it. Though it needed doing" - Tam

I think that's about as badass as you can get, just doing his job and his job is killin'.

Toss the dice
11-28-2010, 03:34 PM
Mat obviously was #1 or #2 before Tom. Now consider everything he did in ToM. Now consider his battle with the Gholam (where he kicks it off into the abyss). The Gholam is so fast, so quick, so dangerous, that it is a virtual lock against humans in general, in a remarkably short period of time needed to kill them. Mat is the wildcard vs the Gholam, the one human that can actually go toe to toe with it. With all of his skills, memories, and especially quickness - Mat actually has a fighting chance against the thing. He is like a 14 year old fighting a grown man, instead of a 9 year old. Add in his luck... (And theoretically consider that all other humans have foxhead medallions for this discussion)

Now looking at his battle with the thing in Tom, I see very little luck on Mat's part, other than his thrown spear tripping it before it could reach Talmanes, therefore allowing the building to catch fire, etc, etc. When it came to actually fighting it, I can't remember one instance where luck helped Mat fight. And he whooped the things ass.

I am thinking Mat over Lan now, as I think about it. I was always a Lan as #1 person up till now, as Lan is solidly described as the best fighter. Add in all the things from ToM, all the fighting Mat partakes in, and he's looking pretty damn good. Screw his luck, I'm talking sheer fighting prowess here.

Unfortunately, now he only has one eye. So as of the end of ToM, he is somewhat in limbo now, although he still has to be "ranked" up there. Missing an eye is certainly a disadvantage, but not a completely crippling one either.

yasiru89
11-28-2010, 07:51 PM
I think Mat will get his groove back mid-fight in aMoL. He has the basic idea thanks to that lucky throw- when in doubt of depth perception, jab randomly.
But I thought this was about blademasters, in which case I'd rank Lan at the top spot with pre-KoD Rand close behind. Then Galad and then Gawyn (who has never fought Shadowspawn as I recall, and those imbecilic Bloodknives didn't think to throw something at him from the shadows while going against him three on one!).
But mention of Tam makes me think there might be other unknown blademasters at or above Galad's level. What makes Galad such a good blademaster is his use of the Oneness (among less obvious factors) from what I recall of his PoV, especially as compared to Gawyn. But Tam is the character through whom we originally came to know of it. So even if age has bested experience in Tam himself, perhaps there are more people out there who employ the technique and have been fighting longer than Galad (especially against Shadowspawn).
Pre-KoD Rand had the most potential I think- even back in tGH he was slicing through Shadowspawn while resisting saidin. While the best fighter at the moment I'd put down as a tie between Lan and Mat. Of course, put everyone in Tel'aran'rhiod and Perrin is Neo.

Neilbert
11-28-2010, 11:02 PM
I am thinking Mat over Lan now, as I think about it. I was always a Lan as #1 person up till now, as Lan is solidly described as the best fighter. Add in all the things from ToM, all the fighting Mat partakes in, and he's looking pretty damn good. Screw his luck, I'm talking sheer fighting prowess here.

Mat has been number 1 the whole time, it just took a poisoned dagger keeping him down to put him at parity with everyone else... while everyone else was Lan, the second most bad-ass person in the world.

Lan, Rand (no channeling both hands), Galad, and Gawyn together might be able to take Mat. Might.

ShadowLord
11-28-2010, 11:22 PM
Why not just go with BWS's response and be done with it. It would seem that arguing is useless once the author has given you the answer.

Belazamon
11-28-2010, 11:38 PM
It would seem that arguing is useless once the author has given you the answer.
Hi, welcome to Theoryland! :D

ShadowLord
11-28-2010, 11:43 PM
Thanks Belazaman. Fun site here. Seriously though, they get even more crazy on Dragenmount. :)

yasiru89
11-28-2010, 11:56 PM
Having gotten one, I wonder that the welcome is partly a stock response to get used to such things. :D

But I still say Tam in his prime would have given these young ones a run for their money.