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Tower of Ghanja
11-17-2010, 05:00 PM
I was struck by Seonid's "I wouldn't have known all that if you hadn't told me" line in the Malden water slide scene.

RJ mistake or indication that Seonid is BA?

I was wondering if we have seen Perrin interact directly with darkfriends and if so, did he always smell them?

We've had lots of indications that he can smell shadowspawn and people who have been touched by Fain. I would think he could smell DFs as well but haven't been able to pinpoint a DF he either smelled or didn't notice anything about.

So, can Perrin smell DFs? If so, any scents from any of "his" AS?

I could go through and look these up but the group has amazing powers of recall.

arioch
11-17-2010, 05:07 PM
I was struck by Seonid's "I wouldn't have known all that if you hadn't told me" line in the Malden water slide scene.

RJ mistake or indication that Seonid is BA?

I was wondering if we have seen Perrin interact directly with darkfriends and if so, did he always smell them?

We've had lots of indications that he can smell shadowspawn and people who have been touched by Fain. I would think he could smell DFs as well but haven't been able to pinpoint a DF he either smelled or didn't notice anything about.

So, can Perrin smell DFs? If so, any scents from any of "his" AS?

I could go through and look these up but the group has amazing powers of recall.

Sarcasm from an Aes Sedai, yet her Oath is to speak no word that is not true. Interesting.

morat'corlm
11-17-2010, 05:14 PM
He's interacted with Lanfear and didn't smell anything.

And more convincingly, Galina Casban.

Possibly others in Tear or Caemlyn. Ingtar. Verin. Taim and his cronies at Dumai's Wells, along with some of the Aes Sedai (Katerine, Elza).

Tower of Ghanja
11-17-2010, 05:27 PM
He's interacted with Lanfear and didn't smell anything.

And more convincingly, Galina Casban.

Possibly others in Tear or Caemlyn. Ingtar. Verin. Taim and his cronies at Dumai's Wells, along with some of the Aes Sedai (Katerine, Elza).

Galina is the more important of that list, as he had come more into his wolf powers by that point in the story.

Now that he has embraced his wolf nature and is uber-himself, it will be interesting to see if he can detect all DFs.

But with the evidence thus far it seems that DFs don't have a scent similar to shadowspawn or those touched by Fain.

Neilbert
11-17-2010, 05:33 PM
Sarcasm is three oath exempt.

Spasmodean
11-17-2010, 06:47 PM
Sarcasm is three oath exempt.

Any more examples?

arioch
11-17-2010, 06:49 PM
Any more examples?

Cadsuane's conversation with the innkeeper in Bandar Eban in TGS, although that's potentially post-RJ (but I THINK RJ wrote that section). Specifically some lines like "your inn is doing well" and "I hadn't noticed".

Apparently RJ wrote at some point that yes, the Three Oaths allow for sarcasm when no false information may be potentially conveyed and believed.

NaeffOfDreams
11-17-2010, 06:58 PM
I agree on the sarcasm note. Keep in mind that the Oath Rod is based on the mind of the speaker. If they feel in danger, or if they believe a lie for truth. I've been wondering for some time now if they can make power-wrought weapons if they can convince themselves that it's not to kill men with, but Shadowspawn.

Kimon
11-17-2010, 07:12 PM
I agree on the sarcasm note. Keep in mind that the Oath Rod is based on the mind of the speaker. If they feel in danger, or if they believe a lie for truth. I've been wondering for some time now if they can make power-wrought weapons if they can convince themselves that it's not to kill men with, but Shadowspawn.

Well the three oaths obviously allow for quite a bit of subjectivity. Take for example if I were oathbound, it obviously wouldn't stop me from saying something like "the Republicans are all basically working for the Dark One". So, the truth for me, a lie for others. Or the injunction against using the power till you feel personally in danger? Sure, for some, like Seonid, that meant she couldn't even bring herself to agree to Perrin's plan to use the power on the dirt since it might accientally hurt one of the whitecloaks. But, what if you had a White Ajah sister, who making more rationale use of logic, just convinced herself that she'd feel a heck of a lot safer with an army approaching her if she started killing them when they were a couple of miles away, rather than waiting till she saw the whites of their eyes. I mean, heck, she's holding the power, so she can she the whites of their eyes from pretty far away. I'm guessing that if they polled the ajahs, reds and greens would have to wait longer till they felt in danger.

NaeffOfDreams
11-17-2010, 07:22 PM
Exactly my point. So, if an Aes Sedai could get all her logic tied up, maybe by exacting an oath from the person she's making it for, could we see weapons made by Aes Sedai or will that be strictly Perrin's province?

Kimon
11-17-2010, 07:31 PM
Exactly my point. So, if an Aes Sedai could get all her logic tied up, maybe by exacting an oath from the person she's making it for, could we see weapons made by Aes Sedai or will that be strictly Perrin's province?

Well technically, that particular oath only demands "to make no weapon for one man to kill another". So I suppose you could convince yourself that clearly it is just men that can't be trusted to use good judgment with your power-enhanced weapons, and just outfit all-female fighting forces with your souped-up powerwrought artillery. Or that it would only break the oath if a man used your weaponry to kill people one at a time, so you just make him promise that he loses his privilege to carry and use powerwrought weapons unless he kills a lot of people all at once every time he uses it.

GonzoTheGreat
11-18-2010, 04:06 AM
Of course sarcasm is possible, if the AS can be sure that what she says won't be taken as truth. However, if it is believed despite that, then the consequences are dire.
"Hmm, yes," Verin said, taking a calm sip of her tea. "I suspect that you do. By the way, that dress you are wearing is green."

Egwene frowned at the nonsense sentence, glancing down at her dress. Of course it wasn't green. What was Verin saying? Had the woman become—

She froze, glancing at Verin.Because Egwene failed to pick up the sarcasm, Verin automatically retro-actively became Black Ajah.

So AS do have to be careful about whom they aim their sarcasm at. Perrin is safe, of course.

WinespringBrother
11-18-2010, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by RJ: Dragon Reborn/CH: 34 - A Different Dance

Perrin shifted his feet uneasily; there was cold promise in her voice. "You told me once that you could sense a Darkfriend, one who was far gone into the Shadow, at least. Lan, too. Have you sensed anything like that here?"

We've seen on numerous occasions that Moiraine, Lan, Rand, Perrin, and others have used their spidey shadowspawn senses to detect Trollocs, Fades and Grey Men (paybe others, just can't recall at this moment). Why have they never sensed the Forsaken that dwell among them? Surely those that bathe in the Great Lord's presence have some kind of detectible residue? Or can the Forsaken mask that somehow?

Enheduanna
11-18-2010, 08:20 AM
Well technically, that particular oath only demands "to make no weapon for one man to kill another". So I suppose you could convince yourself that clearly it is just men that can't be trusted to use good judgment with your power-enhanced weapons, and just outfit all-female fighting forces with your souped-up powerwrought artillery. Or that it would only break the oath if a man used your weaponry to kill people one at a time, so you just make him promise that he loses his privilege to carry and use powerwrought weapons unless he kills a lot of people all at once every time he uses it.

I'm pretty sure that a white's "logic" would allow her to get around this oath for maidens and the dragon crews for Mat's cannon.

GonzoTheGreat
11-18-2010, 10:33 AM
We've seen on numerous occasions that Moiraine, Lan, Rand, Perrin, and others have used their spidey shadowspawn senses to detect Trollocs, Fades and Grey Men (paybe others, just can't recall at this moment). Why have they never sensed the Forsaken that dwell among them? Surely those that bathe in the Great Lord's presence have some kind of detectible residue? Or can the Forsaken mask that somehow?Draghkar, but not Gray Men. Rand could apparently detect one, and so could Perrin, but Moiraine and Lan could not.
Lady Selene (Lanfear) smelled suspicious to Hurin, though he thought that it was a residue from the Shadow World where they had been.