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Terez
11-21-2010, 06:19 AM
TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 35 - A Halo of Blackness

"You wish for peace," Tuon said. "Have you terms for your . . . offer?"

"It is not an offer, but a necessity," al'Thor said. He spoke with softness. All of these people spoke with such quick words, yet al'Thor's had a weight to them. He reminded her of her mother. "The Last Battle comes. Surely your people remember the prophecies. By prosecuting this war of yours, you endanger us all. My forces—everyone's forces—are needed in the struggle against the Shadow."

The Last Battle would be between the Empire and the forces of the Dark One. Everybody knew that. The prophecies clearly showed that the Empress would defeat those who served the Shadow, and then she would send the Dragon Reborn in to duel with Lighteater.

How much had he fulfilled? He didn't seem blinded yet, so that had yet to happen. The Essanik Cycle said that he would stand on his own grave and weep. Or did that prophecy refer to the dead walking, as they did already? Certainly, some of those spirits had walked across their own graves. The writings were unclear, sometimes.
TITLE - Towers of Midnight
CHAPTER: 32 - A Storm of Light

This is it, Min thought, tapping the page. She sat on her windowsill in the Stone of Tear, enjoying the breeze. Trying not to think of Rand. He wasn't hurt, but his emotions were so strong. Anger. She'd hoped he wouldn't be so angry ever again.

She shook off the worrying; she had work to do. Was she following the wrong thread? Was she interpreting in the wrong way? She read the line again. Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

...

"Have you ever wondered why Callandor is so often called a 'fearful blade' or 'the blade of ruin' in the prophecies?"

"It's such a powerful sa'angreal," he said. "Maybe it's because of the destruction it can cause?"

"Maybe," she said.

"You think it's something else."

"There's a phrase," Min said, "in the Jendai Prophecy. I wish we knew more of them. Anyway, it says 'and the Blade will bind him by twain.'"

"Two women," Rand said. "I need to be in a circle with two women to control it."

She grimaced.

"What?" Rand said. "You might as well be out with it, Min. I need to know."

"There's another phrase, from The Karaethon Cycle. Anyway, I think that Callandor might be flawed beyond that. I think it might . . . Rand, I think it might make you weak, open you to attack, if you use it."

"Perhaps that's how I'll be killed, then."

"You aren't going to be killed," Min said.

"I—"

"You'll live through this, sheepherder," she insisted. "I'm going to see that you do."

And of course, that's another foreshadowing of Min's part in resurrecting Rand - her viewings of Birgitte in particular will be the key to figuring that one out, because those viewings make it clear that Birgitte is still tied to Gaidal.

But back to Tuon. Obviously the big problem here is that Tuon thinks that to channel is to make oneself like an animal. If they could yoink her into a circle, then the problem would be solved.

The interesting thing is that a woman has to be in control of this circle of three. And perhaps that is ultimately why Mat had to marry Tuon - so that Rand would know he could trust her.

Another interesting thing is that there are a few times in the prophecies we know that I think what appears to be Callandor might actually be Justice. One thing that is clear is that Rand has something to bargain with. Another thing that is clear is that all the armies of the world are gathered not far north of Tar Valon, and Tuon is coming. Maybe not personally, but gateways can make a lot of things possible.

I am starting to wonder if Shadowspawn are going to attack Tar Valon, too...just as the Seanchan show up to a Tower empty of all but servants and perhaps a few careless Browns.

Perhaps what will make Rand open to attack through Callandor would be that Tuon has control of the circle. I don't think it would make a difference if Nynaeve had control, really. Think Eben Hopwil at Shadar Logoth. He trusted Daigian, who had control of the circle, but only Eben knew Aran'gar was holding saidin. He shouted warning, but it wasn't quite quick enough to save him, though he held on to life and the Power long enough for Daigian to send Aran'gar running.

But best of all is the Dark One being named Lighteater. It reminds me of when Goku fought Yakon in Babidi's ship. I can see the Last Battle amounting to a battle of wills between Rand and Moridin, too. I can see Rand dying to sever the link and then being resurrected to go to Shayol Ghul anonymously:

TITLE - Towers of Midnight
CHAPTER: 13 - For What Has Been Wrought

Finally she exhaled, reluctantly pulling back. "Rand, Alanna is gone. She vanished earlier today."

"Yes. I felt her go. Northward somewhere. The Borderlands, perhaps Arafel."

"She could be used against you, to find where you are."

He smiled. Light, but it felt good to see that expression on his face again! "The Shadow does not need her to find me, Min, nor will it ever again. All its eyes are fixed directly upon me, and will be until I blind them."
Lots o possibilities. Perhaps Rand has misinterpreted a prophecy here.

Brandon didn't narrow it down much:

Towers of Midnight book tour 8 November 2010 Lincoln Triangle Barnes and Noble NY, NY - Sarayne reporting (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/53323-tower-guard-report-nyc/page__view__findpost__p__1668128)

Q: Can you give us a hint on who the second woman will be in Rand’s circle? (With Callandor)
Brandon: Not really, but I can give you a tiny bit of information. She has already been introduced.
But I am thinking Tuon is likely.

GonzoTheGreat
11-21-2010, 06:54 AM
Even if Tuon would start channeling right now, she would still be enormously far from whatever her eventual limit in strength would be. Of course, she could send Suffa as her official representative.

Terez
11-21-2010, 07:15 AM
Even if Tuon would start channeling right now, she would still be enormously far from whatever her eventual limit in strength would be.
Not necessarily. Tuon displayed in KOD that there is a huge difference between her and the average sul'dam. She doesn't need the damane to make weaves - she does it herself - and in a circle with Callandor, her individual strength doesn't make much difference anyway. The circle will prevent her from burning herself out.

subwoofer
11-21-2010, 08:10 AM
Hi Terez!

Finally made it on here:)

So am I gathering that Rand will form a circle and Tuon and Ny will be the other two? Or is it that Rand should not form a circle because of a far greater flaw in Callandor?

I strongly support the issue of somebody else-not Rand- being in control of the circle, I said as much on the WoT threads re my Logain using his modified bond idea. So I guess the next questions are:

Is Rand supposed to let team Dark, specifically Moridin using Callandor and then use the weakness to re-seal the DO? Unless the weakness is the "control" issue, then Rand would be SOL because I don't see Moridin linking with anyone.

OTOH- Moridin does have two women mind-trapped to him using those cor-thingies. Maybe Moridin understands Callandor enough that he thinks he can control a circle by using his mind trap of Lanfear and Moggy and Moridin is proven wrong?

I dunno, and then there is the Min factor. We still have to see what she puzzled out. Her reveal to Rand is gotta be pivotal. And probably in the latter chapters of the next book.

Hmmmmmmm.

Jonai
11-21-2010, 08:18 AM
I know we are all assuming a Callandor circle is going to happen because of the prophecies but isn't the original purpose behind that nil and void? Callandor lacks a buffer, so you can burn out, and also increases the effects of the taint and induces wildness of the mind. There is no taint anymore, so the only *known* flaw is the lack of a buffer. Rand can control the amount he draws. If it were absolutely dangerous, the Chosen wouldn't be hankering for it. There are of course allusions to an even more fatal flaw, but the information on that is scant. I really hope Tuon isn't involved on any level. If its channeling or a circle, even if she can spin webs, and tell the difference between all five powers (basic stuff), almost any other candidate is still going to be more of an MVP.

Jonai
11-21-2010, 08:28 AM
Hi Terez!


Is Rand supposed to let team Dark, specifically Moridin using Callandor and then use the weakness to re-seal the DO? Unless the weakness is the "control" issue, then Rand would be SOL because I don't see Moridin linking with anyone.

OTOH- Moridin does have two women mind-trapped to him using those cor-thingies. Maybe Moridin understands Callandor enough that he thinks he can control a circle by using his mind trap of Lanfear and Moggy and Moridin is proven wrong?



Hmmmmmmm.

Cour'souvra. :) I don't know, there's always the Body switch theory. Maybe Rand and Moridin switch bodies, and Ish'al'thor, Moggy, and Lannie seal the Dark One. :P

finn
11-21-2010, 08:29 AM
"There's a phrase," Min said, "in the Jendai Prophecy. I wish we knew more of them. Anyway, it says 'and the Blade will bind him by twain.'"

"Two women," Rand said. "I need to be in a circle with two women to control it."

She grimaced.

"What?" Rand said. "You might as well be out with it, Min. I need to know."

"There's another phrase, from The Karaethon Cycle. Anyway, I think that Callandor might be flawed beyond that. I think it might . . . Rand, I think it might make you weak, open you to attack, if you use it."

"Perhaps that's how I'll be killed, then."

I think it will be Alivia. She's one of the strongest in power, stronger than Nynaeve. Nynaeve for the basic weaves and finesse that a qualified and tested Aes Sedai would know. Alivia for the weaves of pure destruction as a damane would know - she claims to be a better weapon than the Asha'man are. They could swap control in between themselves as the need may arise.

Callandor's vulnerability and Rand's comment on it leading to his death tie in with Min's viewing of Alivia helping Rand die.

Terez
11-21-2010, 08:35 AM
Hi Terez!

Finally made it on here:)
Woot!

So am I gathering that Rand will form a circle and Tuon and Ny will be the other two? Or is it that Rand should not form a circle because of a far greater flaw in Callandor?
I gather from the Brandon quote at the end of the post that he's going to go to Shayol Ghul with Callandor and two women. Before that quote, I argued that it was all a red herring, but Brandon leaves little room for that particular opinion.

I strongly support the issue of somebody else-not Rand- being in control of the circle, I said as much on the WoT threads re my Logain using his modified bond idea.
Well, a man cannot be in control in a circle with two women - a woman must lead. That's part of what makes it safe for him to use.

Is Rand supposed to let team Dark, specifically Moridin using Callandor and then use the weakness to re-seal the DO? Unless the weakness is the "control" issue, then Rand would be SOL because I don't see Moridin linking with anyone.
I am guessing that it will make him vulnerable, but that it will come down to a contest at that point. In other words, the vulnerability is necessary, but 'all that he is can be seized' does not mean that 'all that he is will be seized'.

I know we are all assuming a Callandor circle is going to happen because of the prophecies
Nope, we're assuming that because Brandon essentially said it will happen.

If it were absolutely dangerous, the Chosen wouldn't be hankering for it.
That's assuming they know as much as we do about it, which seems doubtful.

If its channeling or a circle, even if she can spin webs, and tell the difference between all five powers (basic stuff), almost any other candidate is still going to be more of an MVP.
I don't think so. Tuon might as well have been channeling herself all these years, if she does not even require the damane to do the weaving. She doesn't give orders; she does it herself.

subwoofer
11-21-2010, 08:36 AM
Bengi noted this on the other thread:

I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this but the Glossary in ToM has this entry:

Towers of Midnight, the:
Thirteen fortresses of unpolished black marble located in Imfaral, Seanchan.
At the time of the Consolidation of Seanchan, it was the center of military might. The final battle of the Consolidation took place there, leaving Hawkwing’s descendants in power. Since that time, it has been unoccupied.

Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the Towers of Midnight and “right that which is wrong.” See also Consolidation.

In light of this, will Tuon make a deal with Rand for Callandor? Will Tuon agree to join in a circle with Rand only if he agrees to Travel with her to Seanchan and restore some calm to the land? Or maybe the bargain will be to give the Crystal Sword to the Crystal Throne?


Decided to carry the questions over to this thread for the benefit of other fans.

Edit- am liking this format here:) Once you get past the 20 questions in the registration process, everything else is butter... with the exception of navigating to find the thread you want to respond to. I'll eventually figure it out.

Terez
11-21-2010, 08:45 AM
...will Tuon make a deal with Rand for Callandor? Will Tuon agree to join in a circle with Rand only if he agrees to Travel with her to Seanchan and restore some calm to the land? Or maybe the bargain will be to give the Crystal Sword to the Crystal Throne?
I think this refers more to what RJ said about the outriggers. Not that I'm opposed to her having a sa'angreal, but I think her more likely to make a deal for Justice.

subwoofer
11-21-2010, 08:55 AM
Right then- this two site conversation is getting tricky.

'K- had another idea, lemme see if this link thing works so I don't have to keep quoting stuff- crap basket.

Righto plan "b".

Also, I believe I have mentioned this, but there has to be something more to Rand than just his ability to draw in the Source. Let's face it, Rand could be head and shoulders above all the other male channelers in the world, but that will still not put him on equal footing with a god-like figure. Using a tool like Callandor- will that bring him close? Dunno.

I think the biggest fear so far is if Callandor is in Moridin's hands, will that make Moridin more powerful than Rand? Well, back to my original question. Rand is starting to control his other power- his ta'vereness. I think, as been hinted, it is Rand's will that determines the outcome of things, not his ability to channel.

The biggest clue what at the beginning of the book when Rand met Egwene. Rand was surrounded by hundreds of female channelers. Thirteens upon thirteens, and no amount of full circles could have kept Rand in Tar Valon when Rand decided to leave, no matter what Egwene said. That is Rand's real power. When the Dragon is more powerful than all the Sisters in the Tower combined, methinks that is the hint of things to come.

Jonai
11-21-2010, 08:57 AM
Woot!




Nope, we're assuming that because Brandon essentially said it will happen.


That's assuming they know as much as we do about it, which seems doubtful.


I don't think so. Tuon might as well have been channeling herself all these years, if she does not even require the damane to do the weaving. She doesn't give orders; she does it herself.

Oh right, I remember Brandon saying we have met the third now. Sometimes I wish he wouldn't be so literal in his answers. RAFO is a wonderful thing :). Well it was used in the War of Power and its not like the Light was impervious to infiltration, but I see your point. What years? She's 20. That's...4 years max? I'll concede that she might well have more experience than the wondergirls, but I'd trust the channeling ability of Nyn, Moir, or Alivia (or Lannie) more.

subwoofer
11-21-2010, 09:04 AM
I think on the face of it I'd rather be called a "noob" here. Of all the things in the galaxy, being lumped in to Gawyn flippin' Trakand's bunch of yokles is gonna be a grind for me for the next 5 hunny or so posts...

"Youngling" GAAAAHHHHH!!!!

Terez
11-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Don't worry; we'll still call you a noob. ;)

Caveatar
11-21-2010, 09:34 AM
I think on the face of it I'd rather be called a "noob" here. Of all the things in the galaxy, being lumped in to Gawyn flippin' Trakand's bunch of yokles is gonna be a grind for me for the next 5 hunny or so posts...

"Youngling" GAAAAHHHHH!!!!

Maybe 'Youngling' on this site but I have read a large number of your comments on Leigh Butler's reread on Tor's site, and enjoyed most all of them I hasten to add.
If it would help soothe your sensibilities, I remind you that the Amyrlin's well-broken butt-sniffing lapdog is not a 'Youngling' now. I think Sleete was their leader at last look. (If they still exist as a group. I am uncertain of that.)

subwoofer
11-21-2010, 10:18 AM
Maybe 'Youngling' on this site but I have read a large number of your comments on Leigh Butler's reread on Tor's site, and enjoyed most all of them I hasten to add.
If it would help soothe your sensibilities, I remind you that the Amyrlin's well-broken butt-sniffing lapdog is not a 'Youngling' now. I think Sleete was their leader at last look. (If they still exist as a group. I am uncertain of that.)

Heh- shucks- thanks:o

Well, I know that Tar Valon has a lock on some of the rankings but really- Younglings still has the taint on it.

Maybe if Gawyn accidentally fell into a sack of rabid weasels and died. Heck, come to think, I'd rather the category be called "rabid weasels" than "younglings". Dunno where the ranking would go from there, but maybe it's just me:)

I am delicate like a flower tho';)- Ooooo- Younglings could be called pansies! Then up through the flower ranks we go...

Caveatar
11-21-2010, 10:53 AM
Maybe if Gawyn accidentally fell into a sack of rabid weasels and died.


I would expect the rabid weasels to immediately vacate the sack. Even rabid weasels should have SOME self-respect.
But Gawyn would weasel out of it somehow. He has weaseled out of everything else. :D

arioch
11-21-2010, 11:04 AM
A "tiny" hint, eh? Do we know who else is "tiny" in this series?

Hint: Tuon

Double Secret Hint: Cyndane

Davian93
11-21-2010, 11:50 AM
Interesting theory...has about as much chance of being accurate as any of our other guesses. Very well thought out as usual.


My money's on it being Moiraine...with Alivia balefiring him afterward.

ShadowbaneX
11-21-2010, 01:22 PM
My money's on it being Moiraine.
I still need to make that faction, don't I?

Davian93
11-21-2010, 01:29 PM
I still need to make that faction, don't I?

Yup.

torquemada
11-21-2010, 01:39 PM
Interesting idea and I really like having the whole damane thing wrapped up with Tuon channeling but I don't see her as part of the circle for a couple of reasons.

I don't see Tuon getting past the cultural implications of starting to channel.
Even with Tuon having a head start in learning to channel it would pretty much take a crash course for her to be able to contribute anything significant. Even with the fractured time line as it is I don't see there is time for either of these to get addressed and still have a believable story.

The other problem I have is Rand trusting her enough regardless of her marriage to Mat. It would take a pretty big plot twist for Rand to go with Tuon instead of Avienda or Moiraine. Could happen though.


A "tiny" hint, eh? Do we know who else is "tiny" in this series?

Hint: Tuon

Double Secret Hint: Cyndane

Oooh, and who is the tinyest channeler of them all? Midget Moiraine as evidenced by Mr. Sweets first cover.:D

ShadowbaneX
11-21-2010, 01:48 PM
I'm having problems with the title. "Moiraine the guide" is a little ambiguous and it there's nothing to indicate that Moiraine is actually going to guide the circle, other then it seems likely that she's not going to be adding much strength to the circle. No offence to Terez's title of this thread, but the "Character X is the third" is a little...boring, although it does have the virtue of being direct. "Moiraine, Nynaeve and Rand" sounds like an absolutely horrible threesome.

I'm horrible with naming things...

alleluia_cone
11-21-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm not quite getting the evidence for this theory. Is this contingent on Callandor being Justice?

Still, it's not like we have much information one way or another; it's just as likely Tuon as anybody else.

What's interesting about Brandon's comment is that it almost implicitly assumes that Nynaeve is the other woman. He could very well have replied with "How do you even know who the first woman is?"

I've always personally preferred a circle composed of Rand, Lanfear, and Moiraine, with Moiraine leading. With Brandon's comments though, I'm now assuming one of the women has to be Nynaeve.

Davian93
11-21-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm having problems with the title. "Moiraine the guide" is a little ambiguous and it there's nothing to indicate that Moiraine is actually going to guide the circle, other then it seems likely that she's not going to be adding much strength to the circle. No offence to Terez's title of this thread, but the "Character X is the third" is a little...boring, although it does have the virtue of being direct. "Moiraine, Nynaeve and Rand" sounds like an absolutely horrible threesome.

I'm horrible with naming things...

How about 'Moiraine Is The Key"


We believe...that Moiraine will lead the Circle of Rand & Nynaeve wielding Callandor to Seal the Dark One's Prison during the Last Battle.


Or something like that...

Masuri
11-21-2010, 02:41 PM
I lean towards it being Moiraine too. The idea of Lanfear being one of the three seems way out there to me. I doubt that Rand would ever trust her that much. And I can't see Tuon getting involved and "dirtying" herself by linking with a marath'damane like Nynaeve.

arioch
11-21-2010, 02:45 PM
I lean towards it being Moiraine too. The idea of Lanfear being one of the three seems way out there to me. I doubt that Rand would ever trust her that much. And I can't see Tuon getting involved and "dirtying" herself by linking with a marath'damane like Nynaeve.

Trick her. Nynaeve wears a silver band, tell her Nynaeve is wearing the a'dam collar, give her the bracelet. Bob's your uncle, and she's part of a circle.

dpt24
11-21-2010, 03:44 PM
I like this theory, it fits with my thought that Tuon will warder bond Mat. It doesn't really matter how much Tuon knows about channeling, Nyneave can lead and Rand+Nyneave provide the power

David Selig
11-21-2010, 07:08 PM
Interesting theory, but I just don't see Rand trusting Tuon with this, even with Mat being her husband. Rand was pretty clear when he spoke with Nynaeve in ToM that trust would be the main criteria for chosing the two women who would be with him the circle.

ToM, Chapter 15

if we are going to use Callandor, I will need two women I trust in the circle with me. I have not decided upon the other. Aviendha or Elayne, perhaps. But you for certain."

Elayne is probably out due to the pregnancy, so this leaves Avi or Moiraine after her comeback.

I also like Alivia as an option, she's extremely strong in the Power and has shown to Rand her commitment to his cause quite a few times since he freed her from being a damane. Nynaeve - Rand - Alivia is the best possible combo in terms of pure strength in the power among those channellers which are on team Light (except Sharina, but she's too inexperienced and probably hasn't reached her full potential).

If Rand decides he needs to trust fully only one of the women in the circle, since she will be the one to lead and the other has no control, Alivia seems a logical choice. Except for the whole helping rand die viewing, but if he's convinced that's the only way to beat the DO, it's an additional argument in favour of taking Alivia in the circle.

dominominic
11-21-2010, 07:15 PM
Interesting theory...has about as much chance of being accurate as any of our other guesses. Very well thought out as usual.


My money's on it being Moiraine...with Alivia balefiring him afterward.

I Instinctively thought Nynawve and Alivia, as two of the strongest saidarers he could find...

...but this is interesting too.

Doesn't anyone think Nynaeve will go to Lan though?

Terez
11-21-2010, 07:16 PM
Interesting theory, but I just don't see
No one cares.

Terez
11-21-2010, 07:18 PM
I'm not quite getting the evidence for this theory. Is this contingent on Callandor being Justice?
The connection between the two quoted prophecies should be pretty obvious.

Davian93
11-21-2010, 07:21 PM
No one cares.

Wrong side of the bed today?

dominominic
11-21-2010, 07:23 PM
Wrong side of the bed today?

I pushed the wrong side of my bed against the wall so I can't get out that way anymore.

And if that's not WoT enough the bed is sung wood.

Spasmodean
11-21-2010, 07:24 PM
So how is Alivia going to help him die then? Anyone got any ideas on that?

Squocka
11-21-2010, 07:35 PM
Well, a man cannot be in control in a circle with two women - a woman must lead. That's part of what makes it safe for him to use.



A man can be in control of a circle with only 2 women
.... but in Callandors case Caddy says that a women must lead in order to be safe.

Just so we dont confuse the 2 different aspects.

Jonai
11-22-2010, 04:41 AM
I pushed the wrong side of my bed against the wall so I can't get out that way anymore.

And if that's not WoT enough the bed is sung wood.

Just as long as it's not sprung wood.

Grig
11-22-2010, 12:39 PM
Terez, respect because I usually like your theories. But you make a bad implication:

The interesting thing is that a woman has to be in control of this circle of three. And perhaps that is ultimately why Mat had to marry Tuon - so that Rand would know he could trust her.

This is not true. The reason Caddy said a woman needed to control to use it safely is because of the taint being magnified by Callandor. A man can lead a circle with more women than men, see: Damer Flinn in WH.

dominominic
11-22-2010, 12:46 PM
Just as long as it's not sprung wood.

I hope not - I have to sleep there!

Terez
11-22-2010, 01:12 PM
Terez, respect because I usually like your theories. But you make a bad implication:



This is not true. The reason Caddy said a woman needed to control to use it safely is because of the taint being magnified by Callandor. A man can lead a circle with more women than men, see: Damer Flinn in WH.
Someone already said that.

tiredofbuttons
11-22-2010, 01:20 PM
Someone already said that.

No one cares.

Nafro
11-22-2010, 01:20 PM
Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.
I think this line actually means that Rand, with Callandor, will draw in all of the dark one's power (ie the True Power) and the DO with it.

tiredofbuttons
11-22-2010, 01:24 PM
I think this line actually means that Rand, with Callandor, will draw in all of the dark one's power (ie the True Power) and the DO with it.

This was my first impression as well. We shall see. Exciting times, these end of days.

Jonai
11-22-2010, 01:42 PM
I think this line actually means that Rand, with Callandor, will draw in all of the dark one's power (ie the True Power) and the DO with it.

Whatever happened to the True Power frying you instantly at Shayol Ghul?

Nafro
11-22-2010, 01:44 PM
Whatever happened to the True Power frying you instantly at Shayol Ghul?

Thats what Callandor is for.

Jonai
11-22-2010, 01:46 PM
It's attuned to saidin though. How would it help?

Nafro
11-22-2010, 01:54 PM
It's attuned to saidin though. How would it help?

The flaw in Callandor allows the TP to be channelled through it. At least that is my theory.

Terez
11-22-2010, 02:49 PM
No one cares.
Exactly.

jana
11-22-2010, 02:50 PM
Ender is the third

Crispin's Crispian
11-22-2010, 03:23 PM
The flaw in Callandor allows the TP to be channelled through it. At least that is my theory.

I don't understand how Rand could "draw in the Dark One." You mean like a genie in a bottle?

Even if he could channel the True Power, how does Callandor then store it...or more importantly store the entirety of the Dark One?

Jonai
11-22-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't understand how Rand could "draw in the Dark One." You mean like a genie in a bottle?

Even if he could channel the True Power, how does Callandor then store it...or more importantly store the entirety of the Dark One?

An apparent big deal was made about LTT and the Companions touching saidin to the DO during the strike at SG. That being the case, and if it really was a weakness in the sealing, you'd think you'd need the DO completely on the other side of the gap, so-called True Power and all.

jana
11-22-2010, 03:28 PM
An apparent big deal was made about LTT and the Companions touching saidin to the DO during the strike at SG. That being the case, and if it really was a weakness in the sealing, you'd think you'd need the DO completely on the other side of the gap, so-called True Power and all.

go eat.

Nafro
11-22-2010, 03:35 PM
I don't understand how Rand could "draw in the Dark One." You mean like a genie in a bottle?

Even if he could channel the True Power, how does Callandor then store it...or more importantly store the entirety of the Dark One?

With Callandor and his two babes, Rand would draw in the TP, fully containing the power of the DO. He then somehow casts it out of the pattern, thus re-sealing the DO in his prison. Its pretty basic, really.

Caveatar
11-22-2010, 03:36 PM
go eat.

I just had lunch. Thanks anyway.

LewsTherin10
11-22-2010, 04:20 PM
It's definitely Alivia. Rand trusts her. She is super-powerful and this will give her a chance to help Rand die. I'd put money on it.

Jonai
11-22-2010, 04:47 PM
go eat.

You're bossy.

Crispin's Crispian
11-22-2010, 05:09 PM
With Callandor and his two babes, Rand would draw in the TP, fully containing the power of the DO. He then somehow casts it out of the pattern, thus re-sealing the DO in his prison. Its pretty basic, really.

LOL. Yes. Sucking up the Chaotic Source of All Evil with a sword-shaped crystal vacuum then re-imprisoning via casting it out of the Pattern. Basic, indeed.

Is this like in Superman where those criminal Kryptonians were crammed into that weird flat-panel monitor thingy and left to float around space?

Do you have any indication as to how Callandor might be able to hold the Dark One?

dominominic
11-22-2010, 05:11 PM
LOL. Yes. Sucking up the Chaotic Source of All Evil with a sword-shaped crystal vacuum then re-imprisoning via casting it out of the Pattern. Basic, indeed.

Is this like in Superman where those criminal Kryptonians were crammed into that weird flat-panel monitor thingy and left to float around space?

Do you have any indication as to how Callandor might be able to hold the Dark One?

Its a mindtrap for cosmic forces. I read that somewhere.

arioch
11-22-2010, 05:11 PM
LOL. Yes. Sucking up the Chaotic Source of All Evil with a sword-shaped crystal vacuum then re-imprisoning via casting it out of the Pattern. Basic, indeed.

Is this like in Superman where those criminal Kryptonians were crammed into that weird flat-panel monitor thingy and left to float around space?

Do you have any indication as to how Callandor might be able to hold the Dark One?

You see, all that "he" is can be seized.

"he" -> "He" -> "HE" -> "tHE great lord of the dark"

It's a mistranslation from Old Tongue, you wouldn't understand.

Crispin's Crispian
11-22-2010, 05:12 PM
An apparent big deal was made about LTT and the Companions touching saidin to the DO during the strike at SG. That being the case, and if it really was a weakness in the sealing, you'd think you'd need the DO completely on the other side of the gap, so-called True Power and all.

This gave rise to the Fain Buffer theory, didn't it? Stick an anti-thetical human evil between Good One Power and Evil Dark One. Of course, then the One Power would be tainted by Fain.

Crispin's Crispian
11-22-2010, 05:14 PM
Say, this reminds me.

I wonder if the good guys will still use the One Power to seal the Prison, but will then somehow seal off the One Power so humans can't access it. Too bad Aviendha's future doesn't indicate this will probably happen, because it's kind of a neat idea.

Jonai
11-22-2010, 05:16 PM
Its a mindtrap for cosmic forces. I read that somewhere.

The Callandor XL Cosmic Power Vac, now with true suction technology.

arioch
11-22-2010, 05:18 PM
The "tiny" quote is a reverse clue. Rand will seal away the DO by using megamaid.

dominominic
11-22-2010, 05:25 PM
The Callandor XL Cosmic Power Vac, now with true suction technology.

How about this tagline: "Callandor: For True Power"

I do hope the use of Callandor is totally out of left field. I find the more popular scenarios a bit lacking.

dominominic
11-22-2010, 05:27 PM
Of course, then the One Power would be tainted by Fain.

Is there any evidence for this?

Crispin's Crispian
11-22-2010, 07:08 PM
How about this tagline: "Callandor: For True Power"

I do hope the use of Callandor is totally out of left field. I find the more popular scenarios a bit lacking.
I agree. In all honesty, I'm intrigued by Nafro's suggestion...I just wish it had some backup. Don't let our teasing get to you, Nafro--we just like things that suck.

Crispin's Crispian
11-22-2010, 07:08 PM
Is there any evidence for this?

Sure. Fain taints everything with which he comes in contact.

Jonai
11-22-2010, 07:32 PM
I agree. In all honesty, I'm intrigued by Nafro's suggestion...I just wish it had some backup. Don't let our teasing get to you, Nafro--we just like things that suck.

^ This.

dominominic
11-22-2010, 07:33 PM
Sure. Fain taints everything with which he comes in contact.

Has anyone hit Fain with a weave? Alviarin did when they met I think. But would that count as touching the Power to him(the way it's suggested tainting worked with the DO)?

Or do you think Fain would have another method? What would it be?

FelixPax
11-22-2010, 08:22 PM
Tuon is dead, only Fortuona lives! (TGS, Ch.36 'The Death of Tuon' - Fortuona pov)
Thus, this theory of Tuon being the 3rd is absolutely incorrect.
Chuckles... wink-wink.

On a more a slight more serious note, what does Prophecy proclaim?
"The Moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes."

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

—from Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora,
The Breaking of the World.
Author unknown, the Fourth Age


Thus whom ever the two women ultimately are, to link up with Rand (the Sun) at Tarmon Gai'don. All of them will die. None of the three will survive the ending of the Last Battle. Price to pay, is death.

Tuon, as a name is already dead to even herself....
Tuon is NOT the 2nd of two women to link up in the future with Rand al'Thor.

Fortuona has only One Man, as even Prophecy Proclaims.
She's got eyes for Mat Cauthon only. =o)

arioch
11-22-2010, 08:50 PM
Tuon is dead, only Fortuona lives! (TGS, Ch.36 'The Death of Tuon' - Fortuona pov)
Thus, this theory of Tuon being the 3rd is absolutely incorrect.
Chuckles... wink-wink.

On a more a slight more serious note, what does Prophecy proclaim?
"The Moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes."




Thus whom ever the two women ultimately are, to link up with Rand (the Sun) at Tarmon Gai'don. All of them will die. None of the three will survive the ending of the Last Battle. Price to pay, is death.

Tuon, as a name is already dead to even herself....
Tuon is NOT the 2nd of two women to link up in the future with Rand al'Thor.

Fortuona has only One Man, as even Prophecy Proclaims.
She's got eyes for Mat Cauthon only. =o)

Uh, that was a record of the end of the AoL.

morat'corlm
11-22-2010, 08:52 PM
Has anyone hit Fain with a weave?Moiraine Healed him in EOTW. And Mashadar itself has been hit with a number of weaves without contaminating the True Source.

FelixPax
11-23-2010, 01:29 AM
Uh, that was a record of the end of the AoL.

Arioch...

1st Age, little solid exists of it--stories, fables. Perhaps ancient bridges: Whitebridge & another in Ghealdan (Perrin pov). Yet Wolf Memories seem to be of all 'Ages' including this one.
2nd Age, was the Age of Legends
3rd Age, is the Current Age
4th Age (http://idealseek.no-ip.com/IdealSeek.cgi?q=Fourth+Age), is to be the Next Age.


Remember this quotation too?

And it was written that no hand but his should wield the Sword held in the Stone, but he did draw it out, like fire in his hand, and his glory did burn the world. Thus did it begin. Thus do we sing his Rebirth. Thus do we sing the beginning.

—from Do’in Toldara te, Songs of the Last Age,
Quarto Nine: The Legend of the Dragon.
Composed by Boanne,
Songmistress at Taralan,
the Fourth Age

Source: The Dragon Reborn, Chapter 56 'People of the Dragon'

Rand al'Thor as the Dragon Reborn is the very person, whom Do'in Toldara te has written about. Do'in Toldara te song writing is of a Historian, looking backwards.


Tuon, absolutely will not die with Rand al'Thor during the conclusion of the Last Battle. Terez's Theory is false.

Belazamon
11-23-2010, 02:01 AM
1st Age, little solid exists of it--stories, fables. Perhaps ancient bridges: Whitebridge & another in Ghealdan (Perrin pov). Yet Wolf Memories seem to be of all 'Ages' including this one.
2nd Age, was the Age of Legends
3rd Age, is the Current Age
4th Age (http://idealseek.no-ip.com/IdealSeek.cgi?q=Fourth+Age), is to be the Next Age.

Reread the quoted passage, Felix. Yes, it was written in the Fourth Age, but it is clearly labeled as the Breaking of the World. And it refers to the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn.

Neilbert
11-23-2010, 02:15 AM
E: Which quoted passage are you all talking about? One appears to be LTT and the original breaking, one appears to be about Rand.

Belazamon
11-23-2010, 02:20 AM
E: Which quoted passage are you all talking about? One appears to be LTT and the original breaking, one appears to be about Rand.
Felix misunderstood the first passage (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=130801&postcount=70). I think you were confused because Felix quoted a different passage (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=130915&postcount=73) later.

FelixPax
11-23-2010, 03:02 AM
Reread the quoted passage, Felix. Yes, it was written in the Fourth Age, but it is clearly labeled as the Breaking of the World. And it refers to the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn.

Belazamon...

Every Age has a 'Breaking',
Both the 2nd Age was, and the 3rd will be 'Broken' by the Dragon's soul

Dragon and the Dragon Reborn are the very same soul.
This is the Wheel of Time, souls are re-circulated in & out of the True World by the Pattern.

And no, that first quotation was a 'future' Breaking: the 3rd Age becoming the 4th Age.

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

—from Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora,
The Breaking of the World.
Author unknown, the Fourth Age


Not a re-write of what's to occur just after L.T.T. died to 'create' Dragonmount: the 2nd Age becoming the 3rd Age.

No, this is a foretelling of the future:


The Ocean will flee
The Mountains will be swallowed up
The Seas will boil
All but memory will be lost


Other Foretellings of the future, known from Fourth Age writings include:


Lions will Sing. (TFoH, Prologue)
The Hills take flight. (TFoH, Prologue)
The moon by day and the sun by night. (TFoH, Prologue)
"the green things failed, and hope died" (tEotW, Prologue) -- each fulfilled in TofM book.



Belazamon...

The People of the Dragon did not arm themselves to fight against the Shadow during the Breaking of the 2nd Age.

However, many the People of the Dragon have armed themselves to fight 'death', for the Breaking of the 3rd Age. Rhuarc is an armed Child of the Dragon, as is too the Maidens society (TDR book). :cool:

And when the blood was sprinkled on ground where nothing could grow, the Children of the Dragon did spring up, the People of the Dragon, armed to dance with death. And he did call them forth from the wasted lands, and they did shake the world with battle.

—from The Wheel of Time
by Sulamein so Bhagad,
Chief Historian at the Court of the Sun,
the Fourth Age

Belazamon misunderstood what the 'Fourth Age' means.

morat'corlm
11-23-2010, 03:11 AM
It's a good thing that Valan Luca's around to teach those lions to sing.

Belazamon
11-23-2010, 03:08 PM
Dear Felix:

You are wrong.

Sincerely,

Be'lazamon

morat'corlm
11-28-2010, 08:23 AM
Actually, I like it. When Tuon Travels to Merrilor, she will give Egwene the help she desperately needs to win the dispute about the Seals (“reaching the top together”; “Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan”) in the form of a male a’dam, which Tuon and Egwene will use jointly on Rand. This provides the circle of three (involuntarily), and metaphorically the “onyx fist” (Domination Bands are made of “black metal”) which can safely wield Callandor.

morat'corlm
11-28-2010, 08:49 AM
Alternatively, he willingly offers one from his own stores to Tuon, "kneeling to the Crystal Throne", while "binding the Nine Moons to serve him" (both usages metonymic) by making a condition of the offer that she patch up her differences with the channeling population, headed by Egwene.

In any case, I really like this, and now I'm next to convinced the onyx fist will be a Domination Band. I might just flesh this out into a full-fledged theory.

GonzoTheGreat
11-28-2010, 08:58 AM
Would Egwene agree to that?
She has rather strong principles when it comes to wearing an a'dam herself. She is also opposed to letting other women be leashed. When it comes to men ... oh! I see what you mean. It is Egwene we're talking about, after all.

I don't think Rand would agree, though.

David Selig
11-28-2010, 09:02 AM
Actually, I like it. When Tuon Travels to Merrilor, she will give Egwene the help she desperately needs to win the dispute about the Seals (“reaching the top together”; “Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan”) in the form of a male a’dam, which Tuon and Egwene will use jointly on Rand. This provides the circle of three (involuntarily), and metaphorically the “onyx fist” (Domination Bands are made of “black metal”) which can safely wield Callandor.
I can just imagine the howls of outrage among the fandom if this happens. ;)

thedragonreformed
11-28-2010, 09:42 AM
I can just imagine the howls of outrage among the fandom if this happens. ;)

They have caged Shadowkiller, he thought at last. That was what the fans called Rand, but he had no idea whether they considered Rand important

The shock filling his mind was answer enough, but howls filled the night, near and far, howls filled with anger and fear. In the camp horses whinnied fearfully, stamping their hooves as they shied against the picket ropes. Men ran to calm them, and others to peer into the darkness as if expecting a huge pack to come after the mounts.

We come, they replied at last. Only that, and then others answered, packs Perrin had spoken to and packs that had listened silently to the two-legs who could speak as the fans did. We come. No more.

:D

The Immortal One
11-28-2010, 10:12 AM
I think the circle would most likely be Rand, Nynaeve, and Alivia.

Though, really, compared to the amount of Saidin Rand will be drawing through Callandor I don't think the strength of the females will make much difference unless they use angreals or sa'angreals too.