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Insane Ducky
11-29-2010, 06:19 PM
I thought I'd start a thread for "All those little things" that bugged me, but I have no answers for and don't seem to constitute major plot points at the moment. Please feel free to add to this, but if too much discussion starts on anyone of them, just go ahead and start a new thread. I want this to be a compendium of nuisances, not a debate. :) I'll post more of these as I reread new chapters in my spare time.

1) What is Gawyn going to do with the three Bloodknives rings? Any foreshadowing of this? Are they still useable with new blood?

2) What is with the smoking pipe around Rand that Min sees now? And who are the two corpses surrounded by Trollocs?

3) Who are the red-veiled Aiel (this one is listed just for completeness, but I know there's another thread about it.)

halo6819
11-29-2010, 06:31 PM
my looney theory is that the pipe is talmanes' given to him by king raeodin of murandy, who i think it demandred...

Terez
11-29-2010, 08:03 PM
1) What is Gawyn going to do with the three Bloodknives rings? Any foreshadowing of this? Are they still useable with new blood?
Yes, they are reusable - or at least, the Seanchan don't know how to make them (Brandon said so). So it would make sense.

As for foreshadowing...well, perhaps I am not very objective about this, but I thought there was a great deal of foreshadowing that Gawyn would kill Rand. Most people seem to think that theory died with TOM but I'm not so sure. Neither am I sure that he will kill Rand, but it's something to think about.

Ishara
11-29-2010, 08:32 PM
Wait - what? The Seanchan don't know how to duplicate the rings, but the Bloodknives are essentially kamikaze warriors. If they go into scenarios of covert ops and stay in till they're dead, then how do the rings ever get recovered for future use? Am I missing something?

Terez
11-29-2010, 08:36 PM
I wondered about that too, but I think that most of the rings were probably recovered via confiscation - the Seanchan Consolidation has been completed for a good many years now. There's probably a law that all of them belong to the Empress.

Ishara
11-29-2010, 08:39 PM
But they're so little! So, Bloodknives go in, do their thing, die in either victory or defeat and eventually the rings get returned to the Empress? I guess...I normally don't attribute gaps to BS, but this just feels off to me...

yasiru89
11-29-2010, 09:04 PM
Yes, they are reusable - or at least, the Seanchan don't know how to make them (Brandon said so). So it would make sense.

As for foreshadowing...well, perhaps I am not very objective about this, but I thought there was a great deal of foreshadowing that Gawyn would kill Rand. Most people seem to think that theory died with TOM but I'm not so sure. Neither am I sure that he will kill Rand, but it's something to think about.
Given his surface motive, that Rand was responsible for his mother's death, is now gone and that Rand is the father of his sister's children, I don't think even Gawyn can escape seeing himself for the douchebag that he is if he even tries to kill Rand.

On the other hand, I think the Bloodknife rings foreshadow Gawyn's own death (it won't be as dragged out with all three coming into play I think). An interesting question is, given the Seanchan don't know their making, how do they recover the things when the Bloodknives are left behind as clean-up crews? They must lose a fair few of them with each mission. Which in turn makes you wonder who the hell would have had such a stockpile of the things?

Edit- oops, the same point is made above by others. In which case, perhaps Seanchan's victories have always been so overwhelming that the Empire always gains complete control of an area the Bloodknives were deployed and manages to recover the things.
Or the damane might be made to put a warding on them, like Moiraine's coins from EotW.

Terez
11-29-2010, 11:35 PM
Given his surface motive, that Rand was responsible for his mother's death, is now gone and that Rand is the father of his sister's children, I don't think even Gawyn can escape seeing himself for the douchebag that he is if he even tries to kill Rand.
I can see him doing it to try to stop Rand from breaking the seals. If Egwene orders it (not that she would order him to use the Bloodring), it will be a nice Arthurian parallel.

yasiru89
11-30-2010, 12:30 AM
I can actually imagine Egwene's thought process in sending Gawyn against Rand... And I'm not being sarcastic either. :D

On a different note, I wonder if the Bloodknife rings can be used simultaneously? And if the increased stamina, etc. from the Warder bond will help reverse or forestall their effects once the rings are removed.

Auror
11-30-2010, 12:52 AM
Most Bloodknives are successful and don't die in the act of killing their victims. They are doomed eventually, but many probably have time to return back to Seanchan controlled areas, or perhaps to handlers or something like that.

Insane Ducky
11-30-2010, 02:14 AM
Who is the dark haired Kinswoman who opens the Gateway for Gawyn in Darkness in the Tower? And is there any significance to the fact that she lets the gateway close so quickly? It seems odd that it was mentioned...

Insane Ducky
11-30-2010, 02:28 AM
Egwene's dream in chapter three of ToM "She saw an enormous sphere made of the finest crystal. It sparkled in the light of twenty-three enormous stars, shining down on where it sat on a dark hilltop."

I think the sphere is clearly the seal, weakening before the DO. So what the hell are the TWENTY-THREE oddly precisely numbered stars?

Jonai
11-30-2010, 02:33 AM
She's just whatever Kin women was on duty. It closed b/c Perrin failed in his sacred to kill Gawyn with the dreamspike.

Insane Ducky
11-30-2010, 02:40 AM
I could actually see him putting on one because he thought Egwene was in danger during the massive Seanchan assault that seems is about to occur on the White Tower. But that still leaves the question - who will be wearing the other two? I don't think it's going to be something silly like "Gawyn gains 3x SHADOW ABILITY", but there has to be a plot reason for mentioning this...

I mean, I suppose Gareth Bryne is technically a possibility, but this all seems like a huge stretch. I'd almost rather they were used to shame Tuon or some less...I dunno, stretchy plot device.

Insane Ducky
11-30-2010, 02:49 AM
Oh, duh. I was looking for any indication that Perrin had been to Caemlyn. I didn't think that the dreamspike would affect an already established gateway. :p

yasiru89
11-30-2010, 02:56 AM
Who is the dark haired Kinswoman who opens the Gateway for Gawyn in Darkness in the Tower? And is there any significance to the fact that she lets the gateway close so quickly? It seems odd that it was mentioned...
More or less what Jonai said... I think. She didn't let it close too quickly- rather, Perrin waltzing in to White Tower grounds in Tel'aran'rhiod with the Dreamspike suddenly cut the gateway off. A pity, would have taken care of Gawyn and Egwene both had Perrin been a split second faster... :p

Perhaps Elayne notices the Bloodknife rings and takes a couple for study? Then end up literally handing one to the Shadow so that the by now immune to channelling (thanks to Elayne's last gift) Shadowspawn hordes will also melt into the shadows and be stronger and faster still? If only Elayne were a Darkfriend she'd probably do so much good for the cause of the Light. :D

skaywalker
11-30-2010, 03:13 AM
Who from the Shadow is immune to channelling? Only Hanlon, or whoever he gives the medallion. And I don't think he'll do. So one minor darkfriend is immune to the Power, that doesn't make him immune to steel ;)

yasiru89
11-30-2010, 03:30 AM
I'm going for the worst case given the blunder- with Hanlon relinquishing or having to relinquish the thing and some channeller among the Shadow's forces replicating it in droves!

morat'corlm
11-30-2010, 03:34 AM
They aren't even protected against channeling, just weaker weaves; it was the flawed copy that was taken.

skaywalker
11-30-2010, 03:36 AM
Well yeah, but so far no chaneller from the Shadow had shown skills in that area. I mean, Mesaana stole the dream ter angreals. Why if the shadow had someone who can make one? Moridin has only two dreamspikes. Why if someone can make him copies?

It will be very lame if in the last book the Shadow just finds someone to copy the thing. Yeah, I probably have to write that last one in the tread for the "burning book"

David Selig
11-30-2010, 04:52 AM
On the other hand, the Light side have been coming up with all kinds of "impossible" discoveries out of thin air the whole series, it will only be fair if the Shadow comes up with something like that for once. But since it's the last book, I doubt it will happen.

The foxhead copy is not worth that much effort anyway, since it doesn't protect from strong weaves and prevents the wearer from channelling.

yasiru89
11-30-2010, 06:21 AM
That reminds me, why didn't Elayne just balefire Hanlon? I can't remember the scene well right now, but surely if she had an opportunity she'd have known a strong weave would work.

And the Shadow really does deserve a break. Every time it tries for some achievement, the Lightside break the rules and turn it around!

morat'corlm
11-30-2010, 06:31 AM
She was extremely woozy at that point because of blood loss and then the old-fashioned Healing ("The hallway shook and spun", "She could barely stand upright", "She wanted to lapse into unconsciousness"). First she threw fire at Chesmal and Hanlon, killing Chesmal, and then pulled the ceiling down on top of Hanlon, which he miraculously escaped.

GonzoTheGreat
11-30-2010, 06:34 AM
The foxhead copy is not worth that much effort anyway, since it doesn't protect from strong weaves and prevents the wearer from channelling.Make ten million copies, and give one to every Trolloc.

morat'corlm
11-30-2010, 06:38 AM
How many silversmiths does the Shadow have in its employ? We know silversmiths are generally honorable. (N=1)The silversmith who had made the contents of the larger had been more than happy to work for the Dragon Reborn and had tried to refuse payment for the honor of it. The goldsmith who had made the single piece in the other bag had required four times what Bashere said the work was worth, and a pair of Maidens to stand over him until it was done.By the time they're done, Aludra will have hailshot cannon emplacements along the entire Blightborder.

yasiru89
11-30-2010, 07:13 AM
That's another thing actually- we might have Trollocs blowing things up if Caemlyn falls.

(and how about Compelling silversmiths, then taking them via Portal Stone to a world where time passes more slowly and setting them to work? I love how there are contrived ways of making seeming absurdities possible in this series- all thanks to the detail invested...:D)

skaywalker
11-30-2010, 07:27 AM
But that's the point - there's nobody who can make copies beside Elayne and she is working for the Light.

David Selig
11-30-2010, 07:37 AM
Actually there's a mention in CoT that three other Aes Sedai have learnt to copy ter'angreals, but "with very spotty success".

Maybe one of them is an escaped Black and will level up suddenly and start copying all kinds of ter'angreals with ease. ;)

Mat
11-30-2010, 08:36 AM
Elayne and she is working for the Light.

I say Elayne is some kind of semi-light.
She really tries to work for the light but, yeah... Doesn't work very well...

:rolleyes:

GonzoTheGreat
11-30-2010, 08:41 AM
Elayne is a bit dim, now and then.

ShadowbaneX
11-30-2010, 09:19 AM
Egwene's dream in chapter three of ToM "She saw an enormous sphere made of the finest crystal. It sparkled in the light of twenty-three enormous stars, shining down on where it sat on a dark hilltop."

I think the sphere is clearly the seal, weakening before the DO. So what the hell are the TWENTY-THREE oddly precisely numbered stars?

Some people think it's the Seal on the Bore, others have different opinions. I'm with the Seal though, and the 23 could be the different factions that are there to witness Rand doing it, or the Heads of State/Monarchs ie, Elayne, Egwene, Mat, Perrin, Aiel Clan Chiefs, Borderland Monarchs, Galad as the LCC, Darlin, Tuon, etc, etc.

Terez
11-30-2010, 09:40 AM
The crystal globe represents Aiel, with a parallel to the crystal columns of Rhuidean. The ropes holding it together are the ji'e'toh system which is currently based on gaining honor in battle. Rand thoughtlessly cuts these ropes with the Dragon's Peace. The Aiel are without honor in an age of peace. The 23 points of light are the Council of Twenty-two that Aviendha saw in her vision of the future in the crystal columns (one clan chief and one Wise One for every clan except the Shaido), plus...Rand? The Dragon's blood, probably - they are 'something' to the Aiel.

The seals were a red herring on that one. Any other interpretation of this viewing besides the Aiel is too convoluted to make much sense.

Ishara
11-30-2010, 10:16 AM
Most Bloodknives are successful and don't die in the act of killing their victims. They are doomed eventually, but many probably have time to return back to Seanchan controlled areas, or perhaps to handlers or something like that.

What are we basing that fact on? The explanation in tGS makes it pretty clear that they don't come back.

Casabamelon
11-30-2010, 01:17 PM
Regarding recovery of the Bloodknife rings:

My reading from TGS was that, live or die on the primary target, they were meant to wreak as much havoc as possible. So, eventually they die from the rings or they die in battle.

My thought is that you're only going to send in Bloodknives to weaken a foe before the full assault. If so, you conquer and recover your rings.

If you fail, then you're going against someone strong, and they should recognize a Bloodknife for what s/he is, and keep the ring after the Bloodknife dies.

Either way, the rings stay in circulation. Maybe some get lost, occasionally, but most should stay available.
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Terez
11-30-2010, 04:04 PM
I bet they have another ter'angreal that can find the Bloodrings. Like a dragonball radar. :)

yasiru89
12-01-2010, 03:02 AM
I bet they have another ter'angreal that can find the Bloodrings. Like a dragonball radar. :)
Or couldn't they just ward it with damane like Moiraine did with her coins all the way back in EotW?
Is Rand being resurrected by a wish to Shen-Long a theory anyone has considered?

Faedryth
12-01-2010, 05:50 AM
I thought I'd start a thread for "All those little things" that bugged me, but I have no answers for and don't seem to constitute major plot points at the moment. Please feel free to add to this, but if too much discussion starts on anyone of them, just go ahead and start a new thread. I want this to be a compendium of nuisances, not a debate. :) I'll post more of these as I reread new chapters in my spare time.

1) What is Gawyn going to do with the three Bloodknives rings? Any foreshadowing of this? Are they still useable with new blood?

2) What is with the smoking pipe around Rand that Min sees now? And who are the two corpses surrounded by Trollocs?

3) Who are the red-veiled Aiel (this one is listed just for completeness, but I know there's another thread about it.)

Realizing that the Seanchan Empire will be severly weakened by the loss of it's Empress, maybe he will use them to assasinate Tuon. With our knowledge that another invasion is planned, it appears that the Tower is going to have it's hands full for a while with them. As for them getting recycled, they are usually used in Seandar. While they may complete their mission, the rings will be left in the hands of whomever takes over afterwards. Being such a valuable tool, they will eventually be utilized by THAT person since assassination is expected in their culture. Therefore, a finite number of rings would continue to be used, resulting in assassinations and rebuttals using those same rings in an endless cycle.

No idea.

Haven't looked at all the threads yet, but only thing I could imagine would be the male channelers from the Aiel. They are sent into the Blight to fight and die; nothing states that they succeed. Caught and turned to the Shadow, eventually released on the world. Should they have appeared before this, the Last Battle, the Aiel would have learned of the turning and begun to just kill the channelers, therebye ruining a perfectly good system of creating Dreadlords for the Shadow. Just a stab.

tiredofbuttons
12-01-2010, 10:16 AM
But they're so little! So, Bloodknives go in, do their thing, die in either victory or defeat and eventually the rings get returned to the Empress? I guess...I normally don't attribute gaps to BS, but this just feels off to me...

I assumed that's why they had so few.

Terez
12-01-2010, 10:33 AM
Realizing that the Seanchan Empire will be severly weakened by the loss of it's Empress, maybe he will use them to assasinate Tuon.
I like this idea.

Nei
12-01-2010, 11:52 AM
Actually, I wonder if Gawyn realises that what actually kills the Bloodknives are the rings. The Seanchan that he speaks to does not explicitely cite the rings as the cause, only that 'their blood turns against them' and that they are 'poisoned by their service'.

Terez
12-01-2010, 12:14 PM
She also said the rings were ter'angreal. Gawyn is not that stupid. At least, I don't think he is. Some would argue otherwise...

tiredofbuttons
12-01-2010, 12:47 PM
I say Elayne is some kind of semi-light.
She really tries to work for the light but, yeah... Doesn't work very well...

:rolleyes:

She's like Mr Magoo.

Casabamelon
12-01-2010, 02:55 PM
I bet they have another ter'angreal that can find the Bloodrings. Like a dragonball radar. :)

What is Rand's power level?

It's over 9000!!!
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Terez
12-01-2010, 04:12 PM
Sadly, I think Goku would kick Rand's ass, Choedan Kal or no.

Toss the dice
12-01-2010, 06:37 PM
Yeah, its amazing how tough it would be to create a fully fleshed out, detailed fictional character for any genre that is tougher than Goku. As a matter of fact, Goku (or any of them) at SS2 would be basically tops for sure, except they get even more ridiculously powerful.

Terez
12-01-2010, 08:25 PM
The Aiel in Aviendha's vision of the future reminded me of Goten and Trunks. We get to save the world!

CreationEdge
12-02-2010, 07:18 AM
Oh, look at that, Semirhage just made Goku's heart stop with a thread of the Power, then destroyed his body with Balefire.

padfoot89
12-02-2010, 07:44 AM
The fake medallions are an interesting twist. Mat intended to give one of them to Tuon. That will stop Tuon from accidentally channelling.

Casabamelon
12-02-2010, 08:12 AM
Sadly, I think Goku would kick Rand's ass, Choedan Kal or no.

Seeing as Goku's Talent is having a power level of [Enemy]+1, I would have to agree.

Edit: And even if Rand won, Goku would just come back to life even stronger.
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Terez
12-02-2010, 11:58 AM
In reality, of course, Goku wouldn't have any reason to kick Rand's ass. Though he could have easily saved the world from Dark Rand on Dragonmount. He probably would have taken his toy away and then tried to talk him out of being a bad man.

TankSpill
12-02-2010, 12:21 PM
A bit off the subject of Dragonball power levels...

The crystal globe represents Aiel, with a parallel to the crystal columns of Rhuidean. The ropes holding it together are the ji'e'toh system which is currently based on gaining honor in battle. Rand thoughtlessly cuts these ropes with the Dragon's Peace. The Aiel are without honor in an age of peace. The 23 points of light are the Council of Twenty-two that Aviendha saw in her vision of the future in the crystal columns (one clan chief and one Wise One for every clan except the Shaido), plus...Rand? The Dragon's blood, probably - they are 'something' to the Aiel.

The seals were a red herring on that one. Any other interpretation of this viewing besides the Aiel is too convoluted to make much sense.

See, I personally find that to be an extremely convoluted interpretation. There's no reason why a crystal sphere would necessarily mean the crystal columns, there is no reason why the ropes mean ji'e'toh, and there's certainly no reason why 23 ropes necessarily means 22 clan chiefs "plus one." The simplest interpretation I've seen is that the sphere represents the Aes Sedai, and the 23 strands are the 21 sitters, plus the Amyrlin and Keeper, and rand pulling them down is signifying that he is going to destroy the current Aes Sedai hierarchical structure for a new age.

Casabamelon
12-02-2010, 12:59 PM
In reality, of course, Goku wouldn't have any reason to kick Rand's ass. Though he could have easily saved the world from Dark Rand on Dragonmount. He probably would have taken his toy away and then tried to talk him out of being a bad man.

Goku's hungry and not enough food to go around?

Of course, that fight would probably be between Goku and "Ham Hock" Aybara.
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CreationEdge
12-02-2010, 06:19 PM
Destroying their hierarchy, while still possible with this foretelling, doesn't seem likely:

The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger then ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This I Foretell.”

The Immortal One
12-03-2010, 02:58 AM
Destroying their hierarchy, while still possible with this foretelling, doesn't seem likely:

They only said that the 'hierarchy' would be destroyed. It wouldn't necessarily mean that the Tower would be destroyed.

Besides, in my opinion, destroying their hierarchy, and all the plotting and politicking, would be the best first step in rebuilding the White Tower better and stronger than ever.


As for the rest of that prophecy, sisters have been 'walking the grounds' of the Black Tower for quite a while. And just because Rand has to face the anger of the Amyrlin (if this hasn't already happened) doesn't mean that her anger will make any impression on him.

Daekyras
12-03-2010, 03:34 AM
Realizing that the Seanchan Empire will be severly weakened by the loss of it's Empress, maybe he will use them to assasinate Tuon.

Please. please let this be a possiblity.

Gawyn: I am here to kill you Tuon and using this special ring i have just fought through your guards to reach you.

Mat: Thats my wife so, no, that won't be happening.

Gawyn: shit. *gets killed easily*

Tuon: Thanks toy.

Mat: Blood and bloody....

Fie
12-04-2010, 03:56 AM
One of the little things I wonder is, if the kinswoman who made the gate for Gawyn to travel back to the WT, did purposely close it in a way to risk him losing a foot or worse.
I mean, she was "bleary-eyed" and tired, ok, but hey ! Does anybody know, who she is ? I just recall "bleary-eyed" and black hair, when I get by book back I´ll check if it could be figured out.

morat'corlm
12-04-2010, 04:18 AM
That would be this.
Perrin glanced around, getting his bearings. He was on a lightly forested slope, and could see Dragonmount to the north of him. He glanced eastward, and saw the tip of a large structure peeking out over the treetops. The White Tower. The city might give Perrin an advantage, make it easier to hide in one of the many buildings or alleys.
Perrin leaped off in that direction, carrying the spike with him, the dome it created traveling with him as he moved.

TankSpill
12-04-2010, 10:23 AM
One of the little things I wonder is, if the kinswoman who made the gate for Gawyn to travel back to the WT, did purposely close it in a way to risk him losing a foot or worse.
I mean, she was "bleary-eyed" and tired, ok, but hey ! Does anybody know, who she is ? I just recall "bleary-eyed" and black hair, when I get by book back I´ll check if it could be figured out.

No, that happened because the dreamspike was brought into Tar Valon's vicinity - had Gawyn been one second slower, he would have been cut in half, had he been five seconds slower, the gateway never would have opened to begin with, or would have closed before he had a chance to enter.

The Immortal One
12-04-2010, 10:43 AM
had Gawyn been one second slower, he would have been cut in half

Damn Pattern - timing things so perfectly.

Though, to be honest, Gawyn has been much less annoying recently - perhaps even to the level of 'almost good'.

TankSpill
12-04-2010, 01:38 PM
Damn Pattern - timing things so perfectly.

Though, to be honest, Gawyn has been much less annoying recently - perhaps even to the level of 'almost good'.

Let's not be too hasty, now!

[/ off topic]

Birgitte
12-05-2010, 03:49 PM
The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger then ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This I Foretell.”

The rest of this prophecy has already happened. Rand al'Thor went and talked to Egwene and "knew her anger", not that he cared much. As someone else said, sisters have been walking around the Black Tower for awhile now and their civil war is imminent if not already started. The White Tower is whole again, as of tGS and a bunch of Black Ajah were "cast out and scorned". Well, they ran away or were taken to trial. Close enough for prophecy.

I do think the hierarchy of the White Tower is going to change. I've always thought the White and Black Towers were going to unite eventually. I just don't think that particular prophecy has anything to do with it.

yasiru89
12-05-2010, 05:04 PM
I keep wondering if that 'knowing her anger' bit was simply postponed. Egwene's major gripe seems to be one of the few things Taim did reasonably after all- bonding the women who were out for blood (and at least Logain's camp treated them reasonably thereafter).

The unification of the two Towers might be a long while coming. I remember Nicola's Foretelling say something like, 'The Guardians balance the Servants', which to me seems like they might be at odds, if not openly hostile (this would also keep with the theme of the rest of the outlined future in that Foretelling).

Fie
12-06-2010, 02:07 AM
No, that happened because the dreamspike was brought into Tar Valon's vicinity - had Gawyn been one second slower, he would have been cut in half, had he been five seconds slower, the gateway never would have opened to begin with, or would have closed before he had a chance to enter.

Oh, I see, never made that connection. Thank you very much, TankSpill, one little thing less to think about... :)

GonzoTheGreat
12-06-2010, 04:58 AM
I keep wondering if that 'knowing her anger' bit was simply postponed. Egwene's major gripe seems to be one of the few things Taim did reasonably after all- bonding the women who were out for blood (and at least Logain's camp treated them reasonably thereafter).Perhaps Rand should simply offer to have all those AS publicly stilled and hung. Then, while the AS are still sputtering over that, he can say "think it over; I'm off to Shayol Ghul".

Daekyras
12-06-2010, 06:13 AM
Perhaps Rand should simply offer to have all those AS publicly stilled and hung. Then, while the AS are still sputtering over that, he can say "think it over; I'm off to Shayol Ghul".

"gonna break me some seals"

Awesome.

The Immortal One
12-06-2010, 08:07 AM
stilled and hung.

When you hang somebody the past tense is 'hanged'. "Stilled and hanged".


When you hang an item it is 'hung'. "I hung some decorations on the Christmas tree".


(Sorry it just really annoys me when people do that - though so many people do it so often these days that I expect both are considered correct now.)

Casabamelon
12-06-2010, 09:21 AM
When you hag somebody the past tense is 'hanged'. "Stilled and hanged".


When you hang an item it is 'hung'. "I hung some decorations on the Christmas tree".


(Sorry it just really annoys me when people do that - though so many people do it so often these days that I expect both are considered correct now.)

I laughed, I cried.
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Ishara
12-06-2010, 11:57 AM
When you hag somebody the past tense is 'hanged'. "Stilled and hanged".


When you hang an item it is 'hung'. "I hung some decorations on the Christmas tree".


(Sorry it just really annoys me when people do that - though so many people do it so often these days that I expect both are considered correct now.)

Now, Weird Harold can correct me, but I have always known only ONE use for the word hung, and it has nothing to do with hanging things and everything to do with one's... ahem...endowments. It's always hanged, no?

Birgitte
12-06-2010, 12:02 PM
Now, Weird Harold can correct me, but I have always known only ONE use for the word hung, and it has nothing to do with hanging things and everything to do with one's... ahem...endowments. It's always hanged, no?

Yeah, I was gonna say.

Bart's friend (after Bart was taken away to be hanged): They said you was hung!
Bart: And they was right.

GonzoTheGreat
12-06-2010, 12:04 PM
Now, Weird Harold can correct me, but I have always known only ONE use for the word hung, and it has nothing to do with hanging things and everything to do with one's... ahem...endowments.Have you ever been hung over? If so, what do you mean by that?

Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hung) tells me that both "hung" and "hanged" can be used, except in the case in which I used it. Which, I have to admit, seems to mean that English is wrong.

Ishara
12-06-2010, 12:12 PM
Have you ever been hung over? If so, what do you mean by that?

Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hung) tells me that both "hung" and "hanged" can be used, except in the case in which I used it. Which, I have to admit, seems to mean that English is wrong.

LOL - do you really want me to answer that? ;)

Fie
12-07-2010, 05:12 AM
I've been thinking about the Horn of Valere a bit.
Why didn't Verin tell Egwene where it is ? I mean is it so unimportant to not spend 1 sentence on it?
How has she managed to not mention/hand it over to the DO / some forsaken / the chief of her "heart" ? Just look at all the fuss with Mat's letter...Or has she?
I know that "The grave is no bar to my call" means it will call back the dead HotH to TG, but it reminds me so very much of the "Lord of the Grave"...
I hate to mention it, but TG drawing ever nearer, the Horn has to be sounded soon and the Horn makes me think of Faile. There has to be a reason when we first met her she was a Hunter (Huntress?) of the Horn ?

GonzoTheGreat
12-07-2010, 05:24 AM
I think that Verin just accidentally 'forgot' to mention to her superiors that she had been left in charge of the Horn.
Alternatively, someone may have protected it with a rather nasty weave, which should take effect the next time Mat blows it. If it worked, that would be more useful to the Shadow than merely stealing the thing.

Faile was probably introduced as a Hunter to show that she was actually capable of taking care of herself.

Weird Harold
12-07-2010, 05:39 AM
I've been thinking about the Horn of Valere a bit.
Why didn't Verin tell Egwene where it is

The last sight of the Horn Of Valere, was when Siuan Sanche took it from Verin and said SHE would hide it. Verin apparently knew where it was hidden, but would have assumed that Siuan would have already told Egwene if Egwene needed to know where it was hidden.

Personally, I think that was also the last we WILL see of the HoV. Mat does think to send a message to Egwene that there is something in the Tower he will need before T'G, but I don't think he's going to get a chance to collect it and it won't be needed badly enough to remind him in the press of events.

Fie
12-07-2010, 06:01 AM
So Siuan should know. I forgot that.
Hmm. Egwene told Gawyn that she didn't get the message he sent to her, maybe there's someone who doesn't want messages to get through to Egwene? Do we know that she got the one from Mat? I cannot remember.
I'm positive the Horn will play a part, though. Too poetic a storyline to be just dropped.

morat'corlm
12-07-2010, 06:28 AM
Well, Caemlyn to Tar Valon on horseback is probably about a month to two month-long journey, so that announcement of Mat's isn't getting anywhere for a long time unless Teslyn and company run into someone who can Travel out in the middle of nowhere. It would take very hard riding for them to make it to the White Tower before Merrilor. And they left before Egwene became Amyrlin, so there were no convenient gateways in Caemlyn to take advantage of. Possibly we've seen the last of Teslyn and Joline, Egeanin and Domon, and Juilin and Thera.

As for the Horn... Selucia knows where it is: "a hidden basement room". It seems likely the Seanchan will use it as a bargaining chip, Mat will wander over to Tuon's side of the table and pick it up, and presto chango Artur Hawkwing enters the negotiations.

GonzoTheGreat
12-07-2010, 06:45 AM
Well, Caemlyn to Tar Valon on horseback is probably about a month to two month-long journey, so that announcement of Mat's isn't getting anywhere for a long time unless Teslyn and company run into someone who can Travel out in the middle of nowhere. It would take very hard riding for them to make it to the White Tower before Merrilor. And they left before Egwene became Amyrlin, so there were no convenient gateways in Caemlyn to take advantage of. Possibly we've seen the last of Teslyn and Joline, Egeanin and Domon, and Juilin and Thera.Maybe. Then again, there's this:
"Merely another piece of the puzzle that you represent," Setalle said. "I received a letter from Joline today."
"What did she want from you?"
"She didn't ask for anything. She merely wanted to send word that they had arrived safely in Tar Valon."
"You must have read it wrong."That sort of suggests that they did reach the Tower sooner than you'd expected. Of course, Setalle isn't bound by the Three Oaths anymore, so she could be lying.

morat'corlm
12-07-2010, 06:56 AM
Color me wrong, then. One more reason to hate that chapter. (And right; presumably they used the gateway mail service for the letter, meaning they made it to Tar Valon about two days before Merrilor. Ha!)

Fie
12-07-2010, 07:00 AM
....

Possibly we've seen the last of Teslyn and Joline, Egeanin and Domon, and Juilin and Thera.

As for the Horn... Selucia knows where it is: "a hidden basement room". It seems likely the Seanchan will use it as a bargaining chip, Mat will wander over to Tuon's side of the table and pick it up, and presto chango Artur Hawkwing enters the negotiations.

That would be nice, sounds like fun. :)

There will be an appendix book splitted into 13 or 130 volumes and list alphabetically from Alviarin to Zarine the fate of all characters during/after TG, including rats and ravens who were, in fact, spies as well as those who in secret served the light all along disguising their cleverness with brown fur and feathers.

That part with Joline´s "greetings from TV" had me puzzled, when I read it. Not that they shouldn´t be thankful to Mat and be so nice to tell him that his horses arrived safely there :p but I do vividly remember something about buns and a blue (or was it green?) tongue and a certain AS, so... :confused:

Nei
12-07-2010, 07:42 AM
As for the Horn... Selucia knows where it is: "a hidden basement room". It seems likely the Seanchan will use it as a bargaining chip, Mat will wander over to Tuon's side of the table and pick it up, and presto chango Artur Hawkwing enters the negotiations.

I thought that was just a hypothetical suggestion not an actual location.

Fie
12-07-2010, 07:57 AM
What exactly does hidden mean in this statement?
The last time I heard (read) of a hidden room was Mesaana´s room in the WT.
Which was a room no-one could see or enter, no windows, doors etc. I think, meets the definition of hidden quite nicely... ;)

GonzoTheGreat
12-07-2010, 08:32 AM
That part with Joline´s "greetings from TV" had me puzzled, when I read it. Not that they shouldn´t be thankful to Mat and be so nice to tell him that his horses arrived safely there :p but I do vividly remember something about buns and a blue (or was it green?) tongue and a certain AS, so... :confused:Maybe she liked the taste of the things, and thought that the color was just a necessary side effect.
For all we know, blue-coloring buns now become all the craze in Tar Valon. Wonder how Mat would react to that, if half the AS he meets there have blue mouths.

padfoot89
12-07-2010, 02:56 PM
In CoT,

- Who was the person that made Mat return to show in a hurry ? Noal described him dark as Sea folk or Sharan.

- What was the reason the dice stopped in Mat's head the first time in the book ? It stopped when he made the agreement with Tuon but he seemed to think that it had something to do with Rand.

skaywalker
12-07-2010, 03:01 PM
In CoT,
What was the reason the dice stopped in Mat's head the first time in the book ? It stopped when he made the agreement with Tuon but he seemed to think that it had something to do with Rand.

It was the deal with Tuon, you got it right here. He thought(falsely) that it had something to do with Rand because he saw him via the taveren multicolor thing while Rand was cleansing saidin.