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SixPips
11-30-2010, 09:07 AM
This has been building in my mind for quite some time. I want to put out the facts that we know, and then draw the conclusion I see and have you guys tell me what you think.

Age of Legends had tens of thousands of Aes Sedai, male and female. Each of those Aes Sedai knew far more than we do today about the power, and Lost Talents, even just Rare Talents, weren’t all that rare back then.

Aes Sedai knew their talents far better back then than we do.

With this little bit of information about the age of legends, I extrapolate that any abilities we have now must have been magnified by a magnitude of two or three even. Lets see what abilities we have to, oh, lets say, tell the future.

Foretelling- the most direct way. The person prophecies what will happen in a coherent lingual manner. (keep in mind that Tuon mentions casually that she asked a Damane to read her future, so its easily plausible to do Foretelling’s at will during the age of legends.)

Dreamers- This is a little more circumspect. The person has a True Dream which hints at what might happen. The person may or may not know exactly what the dream means, and they can clearly do it at will (Egwene does so many times.)

Wolf Brothers- This may or may not be part of the age of legends, but they have the same dreaming abilities as Dreamers.

Now, if we consider the first two to be relatively scarce now, perhaps less than fifty in all the world, we could easily see there to be greater than 1000-5000 people during the age of legends to see the future.

Here’s the clincher. That many people in a Utopian society without war or any kind of major violence, at least ONE should have had a Foretelling or Dream about the Making of the Bore. ONE at LEAST should have seen “hey, for some reason there’s gonna be grandiose violence in the future on a scale we have never imagined!” I personally feel there would be hundreds at least who would have seen this, and that would have brought up the alarm.

In conclusion, I fail to see how so many people could have turned a blind eye to the Bore when telling the future was so predominant and the Bore was such a huge event. I would consider it being along the same lines as everyone KNOWING that the few years after the new president comes into office we are going to experience horrifying wars and destruction, and NOT bringing it to the attention of the people.

thewyrm
11-30-2010, 09:26 AM
Pre-bore they probably didn't consider violence and war alot,so maybe violent foretellings was few and far between. post-bore if anyone had these kind of foretellings/dreams, maybe they saw advantages for themselves?

Mat
11-30-2010, 09:32 AM
Violence happened pre-bore, too...

"Nemene Damendar Boann (Semirhage) was one of the most prominent Restorers, healers, in the Age of Legends. Also a complete sadist, sometimes torturing people or even killing them, long before the Bore was open."

Ishara
11-30-2010, 10:07 AM
Um, sadism isn't quite the same as violence per se.

Actually, they had to relearn the Art of War. They took a game and turned it into what swordplay is today. Pre-Bore, the AoL was utopic. Violence was almost unheard of given the ability to bind those who broke the rules.

As for Talents such as Foretelling being more predominant than they are now...first, I'd say that we have more than our fair share of people able to "see" the future. I would suggest that your numbers re: channelers in the AoL is way off (as in, far too many), but would also agree that there were more channelers, and they were certainly more centralized than they are now. So Talents would naturally be more prevalent, if only because of the increased chance of it occurring.

But what makes you think that anyone would have see the making of the Bore? Or the War of the Shadow? No one's seen the outcome of the Last Battle this time around, just things that touch it peripherally.

jana
11-30-2010, 10:36 AM
I don't agree with your logic here.

The things people were better at in the AOL required specific weaves and skill.

We have no indication that Dreaming or Foretelling require any weaves or skill at all.

WinespringBrother
11-30-2010, 10:46 AM
Mesaana once commented to Alviarin about foretellings, presumably 2nd Age ones that she would have been more familiar with, stating they were so poetic and obtuse that they were of little use until it was obvious what they were about and then it was too late to use them. She also said it was a rare talent.

Daemin
11-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Has there ever been a foretelling that pertains specifically to the DO and his actions? I don't believe there has.

Given that, I'll make a leap and conjecture that, since the DO is not prat of the pattern, the DO's actions cannot be foretold. This is along the lines of Min's visions of the post TA world: they apply only if the Dark One doesn't win.

What I'm suggesting is that the opening of the bore could not be foretold as its an event that is outside the will of the pattern, involving the Dark One in an integral way. Hence any foretellings in the Age of Legends would be foretellings of what would happen if the bore didn't happen.

Think of the Propehices of the Dragon. There seem to be an awful lot of them, but a lot of different people. Why were they only foretold after the War of Power? Because before then, the intention of the pattern was different, and there wouldn't be a Dragon. After the bore, however, it was fated that the initial attempt would be imperfect and a Dragon Reborn would be needed.

GonzoTheGreat
11-30-2010, 12:08 PM
Has there ever been a foretelling that pertains specifically to the DO and his actions? I don't believe there has.I do believe that you are wrong:
It shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide...
Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation.

from The Karaethon Cycle: The Prophecies of the Dragon, as translated by Ellaine Marise'idin Alshinn, Chief Librarian at the Court of Arafel, in the Year of Grace 231 of the New Era, the Third AgeOther examples may exist.

WinespringBrother
11-30-2010, 12:17 PM
I do believe that you are wrong:
Other examples may exist.

Yeah, in the TofM epiclogue, there is an example of a foretelling that pertains specifically to the Dark One.

Daemin
11-30-2010, 12:40 PM
and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man

That's a little poetic. I was imagining more like... "And the Dark One shall have his hand rape his failed servant and turn her over to..." sort of thing.

Yeah, in the TofM epiclogue, there is an example of a foretelling that pertains specifically to the Dark One.

That quote is from the prophecies of the shadow. Is there a light prophecy that does so?

Ishara
11-30-2010, 12:55 PM
Yes, the Karaethon Cycle Gonzo cited below.

SixPips
11-30-2010, 01:36 PM
I understand my math may be off on the number of Aes Sedai who could Foretell in the AoL. I could even see that the Foretellings didn't touch the Dark One were it not for other Foretellings that prove otherwise which have been mentioned above.

However, no matter the poetic license taken by the prophecy, I find it very hard for any prophecy to be so vague when involving war as to not actually hint at it whatsoever. I think the AS should have seen it coming, however since this is a book series, they didn't for the purpose of giving us something to read. If they had seen it coming I imagine it would be along the following lines for the WoT series book 1:

Mierin was just about to tap the new Source and bask in its radiance when she heard a voice behind her "Stop!" she turned to see Lews Therin Telamon running up behind her. "What is wrong Lews Therin?" she said, quite surprised.

"There have been numerous Foretellings here lately about a great Evil coming across the land after today, and we believe this evil may be trapped where you are about to bore..."

Mierin recoiled from her task at hand, innocently into Lews Therin's arms. "Thank the Light you came here in time to stop me!"

Lews Therin pushed her aside and walked off to live five hundred happy years with his wife Ilyena and their eleven children, all of which grew to astounding abilities and Traveled to colonize new planets under the name of Telamon the Peacebringer. The End.

Daemin
11-30-2010, 02:46 PM
I could even see that the Foretellings didn't touch the Dark One were it not for other Foretellings that prove otherwise which have been mentioned above.

As I said above, I'm not convinced something as vague as "he shall touch the world" counts. What I want is an example of a specific predictions of the DO's actions, not the actions of his servants or something general about his breaking free.

Even if we accept that these prophecies exist, they were all made after the bore was made, along with the prophecies of the Dragon, which leaves me inclined to believe that the opening of the bore fundamentally altered the flow of the pattern from what it was intended to be.

Casabamelon
11-30-2010, 02:48 PM
I understand my math may be off on the number of Aes Sedai who could Foretell in the AoL. I could even see that the Foretellings didn't touch the Dark One were it not for other Foretellings that prove otherwise which have been mentioned above.

However, no matter the poetic license taken by the prophecy, I find it very hard for any prophecy to be so vague when involving war as to not actually hint at it whatsoever. I think the AS should have seen it coming, however since this is a book series, they didn't for the purpose of giving us something to read. If they had seen it coming I imagine it would be along the following lines for the WoT series book 1:

Mierin was just about to tap the new Source and bask in its radiance when she heard a voice behind her "Stop!" she turned to see Lews Therin Telamon running up behind her. "What is wrong Lews Therin?" she said, quite surprised.

"There have been numerous Foretellings here lately about a great Evil coming across the land after today, and we believe this evil may be trapped where you are about to bore..."

Mierin recoiled from her task at hand, innocently into Lews Therin's arms. "Thank the Light you came here in time to stop me!"

Lews Therin pushed her aside and walked off to live five hundred happy years with his wife Ilyena and their eleven children, all of which grew to astounding abilities and Traveled to colonize new planets under the name of Telamon the Peacebringer. The End.

Alternative:
Lews Therin: Our people have Foreseen a great evil coming to the land.
Mierin: This new power should help us combat it!
*DOOM*
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA (http://www.youtube.com/dispensaries)

Belazamon
11-30-2010, 02:55 PM
Lews Therin: Our people have Foreseen a great evil coming to the land.
Mierin: This new power should help us combat it!
*DOOM*
I find myself imaging that *DOOM* is the sound the Sharom made when it exploded.

dominominic
11-30-2010, 03:01 PM
I find myself imaging that *DOOM* is the sound the Sharom made when it exploded.

I imagine the sound of glass shattering. Times a thousand.

amazinglarry
11-30-2010, 03:25 PM
I find myself imaging that *DOOM* is the sound the Sharom made when it exploded.

It's the rocket explosion sound effect from the game DOOM, you know, the one the Smashing Pumpkins sampled on Mellon Collie.

amazinglarry

SixPips
11-30-2010, 04:51 PM
I giggled when I saw "This will help us fight it! *DOOM*" epicsauce.

morat'corlm
11-30-2010, 06:49 PM
Prophecy is seeing pieces of the Pattern, which is spun out by the Wheel of Time, and the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.

finn
11-30-2010, 11:31 PM
What I'm suggesting is that the opening of the bore could not be foretold as its an event that is outside the will of the pattern, involving the Dark One in an integral way. Hence any foretellings in the Age of Legends would be foretellings of what would happen if the bore didn't happen.
The bore was opened by those that were/are a part of the pattern and (epecially in the case of Mierin) as yet untouched by the DO. So the opening of the bore may well have been the will of the wheel and could be foreseen. Whether any foretellings were made and interpreted correctly is a different question.

It may not be possible to predict the Dark One's moves directly. But he does attempt to influence the pattern and so his effect on it can be foretold to some extent. Though I think this is why the Ael'finns are so touchy about questions concerning the Shadow.

yasiru89
12-01-2010, 02:35 AM
About the damane Foretellings, I remember RJ once said something about this being a bit of a misconception through generalisation (there was that big document with interview Q&As, it's in there somewhere), leading me to believe that the damane exact their revenge exactly when asked to tell fortunes- by... making sh*t up!

Your argument of scarcity doesn't work either- these things are needed given the times, so the Pattern would have brought them back for this time of need, so no, there wouldn't have been more Talented people, at least in areas like Foretelling and Dreaming back in the Age of Legends (we know need plays a key role- RJ has also mentioned that the Aiel for instance, have more Dreamers among them simply because it helps them find water, sort of like an evolutionary adaptation- except that about these Talents in general, the Pattern is evolution and it's trying to save its own arse). But I guess this squares with your claim about magnification, though hopefully it bothers you less now.

I also seem to remember RJ claiming (I went through that whole document :D) that in the AoL about 2-3% of the population had channelling, while now it's more like 1%, so given that at least the Aes Sedai are aware of these things and are willing to let them grow (like with Egwene's Dreaming, not sure what to do with Foretelling, except they don't tell anyone with it to go retake the first oath) and the Aiel women for instance presumably encourage Dreaming Talent where found (also are Talents like weather manipulation- these come as a matter of course for the Sea Folk for instance and there's also the metal stuff for the Seanchan). So the difference is more toward being double back in the Age of Legends than the margin you presume.


I agree with what Daemin said also- and the counterarguments don't really count. Pre-Bore the prison was whole and perfect, perhaps existing in a bubble dimension if we assume the Dark One is bound to time (as his inability to restore balefire victims suggests). Perhaps this in itself prevented Foretellings and the like. The making of the Bore might be a major event in the Pattern- like Rand's epiphany, which was reflected in the third constant (Tel'aran'rhiod) and seemed to have needed a back-up prophecy in case Rand chose wrong (though I find that prophecy the oddest one of the lot sometimes). Also is the case that the Dark One is pure chaos and his actions may not be predicted, so there's a possibility that even with the Bore open no one would know anything happened- then he bids his time perhaps, and the Foretellings speak of great chaos in the future, but all the while he's sniggering in his prison gathering strength for a mass break-out. In fact, this makes me wonder why he doesn't just do that, probably just a sucker for seeing humans in long-lasting suffering (though that makes him predictable!).
Also supportive of this is that the Karaethon Cycle seems to be post-Bore. Seeing as the Dragon was not known for Light's champion over and over for the contents to be acknowledged (though Demandred would have thought Lews Therin was spreading propaganda to elevate his status- '"What next Lews Therin? A fourth name?" Demandred sneered'). Not to mention they didn't even know who the Dark One was.

Despite all this I prefer Casabamelon's alternative explanation. :D

Faedryth
12-01-2010, 05:44 AM
With no strife or struggle in the Age of Light, eventually, one way or another, it was going to appear. Boredom or just curiousity would bring it about. Even with a foretelling warning of the Bore causing great evil to be unleashed on the world, someone might have chosen to ignore the warning or even thought to themself "All right! A little action!".

Humans are very curious creatures (apparently not Mat though). Here's a real life parallel for you:

The LHC (Large Hadon Collider (sp?)) was said to have the potential to not only destroy Europe, but the entire world. You would think that just the POSSIBILITY of that would keep us from using it, but it was eventually fired. Compare the LHC to the Bore and there you go, curiousity kills. Only in that case, the Bore DID have the bad outcome, unlike it's real world parallel.

Besides, a foretelling of the Bore would be like the forbidden fruit. Eventually, someone would want to take a bite. It just happened to be Meiren this time.

yasiru89
12-01-2010, 06:30 AM
Micro black hole gobbling you up would have been a cool way to die, that's why no one complained about the LHC too vocally. No one that mattered any way. :D

CreationEdge
12-01-2010, 08:45 AM
I remember reading a Q&A where RJ said that if Perrin was reborn in another Age, he would be a Wolfbrother only if that Age HAD Wolfbrothers. Not every Age has Wolfbrothers.


So, maybe the ability to Foretell about the DO didn't EXIST in that "Age."


Or... Likewise... There's been no precognitions about how to SEAL the Bore. So why assume that there'd be any about OPENING the Bore?

tiredofbuttons
12-01-2010, 02:03 PM
However, no matter the poetic license taken by the prophecy, I find it very hard for any prophecy to be so vague when involving war as to not actually hint at it whatsoever.

Half the threads on here are arguing back and forth if certain prophecies have been fulfilled.

yasiru89
12-01-2010, 09:37 PM
I remember reading a Q&A where RJ said that if Perrin was reborn in another Age, he would be a Wolfbrother only if that Age HAD Wolfbrothers. Not every Age has Wolfbrothers.


So, maybe the ability to Foretell about the DO didn't EXIST in that "Age."


Or... Likewise... There's been no precognitions about how to SEAL the Bore. So why assume that there'd be any about OPENING the Bore?
They had Foretelling in the Age of Legends- remember Rand's Ancestron PoV of the Aes Sedai bickering about them not giving a definite timeline?

Terez
12-01-2010, 10:37 PM
That was during the Breaking. Foretelling might not have surfaced until then.

Servus Christi
12-01-2010, 11:23 PM
and they were certainly more centralized than they are now.

Channellers as a whole may have been more connected with one another but the Aes Sedai institution its self was not very centralised.

CreationEdge
12-02-2010, 07:12 AM
They had Foretelling in the Age of Legends- remember Rand's Ancestron PoV of the Aes Sedai bickering about them not giving a definite timeline?

Foretelling probably did, but I was posturing that Foretelling about the Dark One might not have existed. He didn't actually "exist." He was still completely imprisoned.

Although, I doubt that theory works, anyway. Since there's Prophecies about the Wolf King that were given when Wolf Brothers didn't exist(AFAIK.)



I could imagine a flowery Foretelling about the Bore. "The sun will fall, and shadow fall across the land."

Well, how're they supposed to know that it didn't mean that it was going to be nighttime, but it meant the Sharom would explode and the Dark One would be unleashed?

GonzoTheGreat
12-02-2010, 07:18 AM
"It's always been a city of importance, you know," Rand said from beside Min, his eyes distant. "The Guardians are newer, but the city was here long ago. Aren Deshar, Aren Mador, Far Madding. Always a thorn in our side, Aren Deshar was. The enclave of the Incastar-those afraid of progress, afraid of wonder. Turns out they had a right to be afraid. How I wish I had listened to Gilgame . . ."Was that a Foretelling of Gilgame (Gilgamesh?) or not?

SixPips
12-02-2010, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=Faedryth;132959]With no strife or struggle Humans are very curious creatures (apparently not Mat though). Here's a real life parallel for you:

The LHC (Large Hadon Collider (sp?)) was said to have the potential to not only destroy Europe, but the entire world. You would think that just the POSSIBILITY of that would keep us from using it, but it was eventually fired. Compare the LHC to the Bore and there you go, curiousity kills. Only in that case, the Bore DID have the bad outcome, unlike it's real world parallel.

Besides, a foretelling of the Bore would be like the forbidden fruit. Eventually, someone would want to take a bite. It just happened to be Meiren this time.[/QUOTE/]

Large Hadron Collider

Ishara
12-02-2010, 02:17 PM
Channellers as a whole may have been more connected with one another but the Aes Sedai institution its self was not very centralised.

Well, that's why I said channelers and not AS.

shadar
12-02-2010, 04:35 PM
, I extrapolate that any abilities we have now must have been magnified by a magnitude of two or three even.

Are you comparing any given time in history to the 1000ish NE - where there are 3 of the strongest ta'veren ever - and a slew of talents spun out by the pattern. Most of the major characters (Rand/Mat/Perrin/Elayne/Nyn/Min) would still be damn special in the AOL. I don't think the times are comparable.

shadar
12-02-2010, 04:37 PM
The LHC (Large Hadon Collider (sp?)) was said to have the potential to not only destroy Europe, but the entire world.
Only said by those who didn't know what they are talking about.

yasiru89
12-02-2010, 08:10 PM
That was during the Breaking. Foretelling might not have surfaced until then.
I'd have imagined a more 'what the hell are you talking about?' reaction for a while if that were the case given the world falling apart around them. Just the general manner of that overheard conversation seemed to indicate prior knowledge (the 'what good is your Foretelling...' exchange).

I don't think limited Foretelling is a very good explanation either- most of the things in the Karaethon Cycle for instance (like the Nine Moons) did not exist then either. But again, this leads to my suggestion that the Dark One being sealed off perfectly meant that he was not in timeline of the Pattern that Foretelling is concerned with. The drilling of the Bore may have been Foretold, but the Dark One's chaotic nature may have excluded any other details.

On the LHC- to be fair, given the minuscule chance of creating a micro black hole and the again unlikely event that Hawking's black hole evaporation theory was off, there certainly was a risk involved. But no more perhaps, than every nuclear reactor across the globe suffering a chaotic meltdown at the same time (ooh- Breaking of the World?)!

Cortar
12-02-2010, 08:23 PM
How do we know the answer isn't as lame as:

The pattern only allows a certain amount of dreams/foretellers to be born in order to protect its stability (Eventually if there were enough Foretellers then everything would break down because of how much people knew about the future)?

Also, in this book at least, all of these Foretellings seem immutable (what is foretold is going to happen) or the very least self-fulling.

Example: Callendar. Rand knows he is destined to take it so to prove he is the Dragon Reborn, he goes and gets it.

It seems like so many things only happen in this book because people assume they will happen or know that it might, so in the end, it actually does happen.

The Immortal One
12-03-2010, 02:43 AM
Are you comparing any given time in history to the 1000ish NE - where there are 3 of the strongest ta'veren ever - and a slew of talents spun out by the pattern. Most of the major characters (Rand/Mat/Perrin/Elayne/Nyn/Min) would still be damn special in the AOL. I don't think the times are comparable.

Agreement.

Before the last few years how many people able to Foretell were there?

In Randland, as far as I can recall, there was only Gitara Moroso; then, after she died, there was Elaida (who only barely had the Talent).

So in the 1000 or so Aes Sedai only one at a time had the Talent. Even if you're right about there being tens of thousands of Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends, then there would still be only 'tens' (one in a thousand) of them with the Talent for Foretelling.

morat'corlm
12-03-2010, 03:35 AM
You've got to figure that there were somewhere between a few million and a few dozen million Aes Sedai in the AoL. For instance, 3% of 7 billion is two hundred ten million Aes Sedai (one would assume all those with potential would be discovered and trained in such a society), though the fragments we've seen don't seem to suggest quite the population density of today. Of course, Talents don't seem to be genetic at all.

The Immortal One
12-03-2010, 04:40 AM
Obviously, the Pattern itself dicates who and how many people can Foretell or Dream (etc) at any one time.

It's the only way which really makes sense.

yasiru89
12-04-2010, 06:56 AM
The Pattern probably gives rise to bodies with the necessary genetic make-up and then assigns souls with the given Talents to them as it finds necessary.

GonzoTheGreat
12-04-2010, 07:00 AM
Or maybe the DO arranges it all. Perhaps he is not interested in breaking free, but merely wants to keep the game going on.
That'd really fall under the heading of "the fight is not being fought as you think", wouldn't it?

morat'corlm
12-04-2010, 07:09 AM
It's got to be a lot more fun to "have won again, Lews Therin" every few thousand years than to destroy the universe and sit around by yourself in the infinite void. Like Egwene at the Gap of Infinity.

Terez
12-04-2010, 10:18 AM
I'd have imagined a more 'what the hell are you talking about?' reaction for a while if that were the case given the world falling apart around them.
The Breaking had been going on for about 70 years at that time.

yasiru89
12-05-2010, 03:16 AM
The Breaking had been going on for about 70 years at that time.
That's a relatively short time for them to come to trust it though- it could be the Pattern providing OR it might be some residual effect from the Dark One, they might think, whereas they'd be more willing to put their trust in something they've always had.

Weird Harold
12-07-2010, 06:27 PM
Obviously, the Pattern itself dicates who and how many people can Foretell or Dream (etc) at any one time.

It's the only way which really makes sense.
The Pattern not only controls who has the ability to receive Foretellings, it controls absolutely what Foretellings are availble to those who can receive them.

The Drilling of the Bore was predestined at the moment of Creation and is an integral and necessary part of each Turning. The Pattern Spun Out Beidomon, Meirin, and the rest of the team specifically to drill the Bore, so it would be counter-productive to generate Foretellings that would in any way impede the drilling of the Bore.

By the same token, the Pattern spun out the necessary Heroes -- like LTT -- to counter the Shadow and Foretellings of LOOMING DOOM were undoubtedly provided to prompt those Heroes to be prepared; Without giving them enough information to actually disrupt the predestined access the the DO.

I think of it as the Wheel having a mandatory parole hearing for the DO programmed into it; the Third Age, including the Breaking, has just been the Parole Hearing and Rand is designated to deliver the verdict at T'G.

ETA: such Foretellings as did occur were the functional equivalent of of a notice posted on the third page of the legal notices in a weekly newspaper:

A Parole Hearing for the Ultimate Evil will be held at the Sharom on the last day of the Current Age. Interested parties be there or be square.

SixPips
12-08-2010, 12:22 PM
I like this idea, also poses the question that we have probably all have wondered at some point in time: If the Creator did not want the Dark One to ever break free, why make his prison even remotely accessible? This does tend to lead itself to the theories that the DO is integral to existance in some Ying Yang fashion though.

subwoofer
12-08-2010, 01:41 PM
I like this idea, also poses the question that we have probably all have wondered at some point in time: If the Creator did not want the Dark One to ever break free, why make his prison even remotely accessible? This does tend to lead itself to the theories that the DO is integral to existance in some Ying Yang fashion though.

Even guys with life sentences go up for parole every now and again. Doesn't mean they get it, just that they sit before the board and hear the aye, yes or no. I'm thinking in this case, Rand is the prison warden of a dilapidated jail cell.

Terez
12-08-2010, 01:56 PM
Even guys with life sentences go up for parole every now and again. Doesn't mean they get it, just that they sit before the board and hear the aye, yes or no. I'm thinking in this case, Rand is the prison warden of a dilapidated jail cell.
lol. I can just see it.

I HAVE BEEN A GOOD BOY THIS TIME. SURELY I HAVE EARNED MY FREEDOM BY NOW.

Um...but you tried to destroy the Pattern again. And you ordered your followers to kill millions of people.

LAST TIME IT WAS BILLIONS.

Um....yeah. Maybe you'll do better next time.

WOULD YOU BE NAE'BLIS?

Um...no thanks.

HMPH.

dominominic
12-08-2010, 02:03 PM
lol. I can just see it.

I HAVE BEEN A GOOD BOY THIS TIME. SURELY I HAVE EARNED MY FREEDOM BY NOW.

Um...but you tried to destroy the Pattern again. And you ordered your followers to kill millions of people.

LAST TIME IT WAS BILLIONS.

Um....yeah. Maybe you'll do better next time.

WOULD YOU BE NAE'BLIS?

Um...no thanks.

HMPH.

Hehe, the DO even mutters and grumbles in ALL CAPS!

subwoofer
12-08-2010, 02:35 PM
lol. I can just see it.

I HAVE BEEN A GOOD BOY THIS TIME. SURELY I HAVE EARNED MY FREEDOM BY NOW.

Um...but you tried to destroy the Pattern again. And you ordered your followers to kill millions of people.

LAST TIME IT WAS BILLIONS.

Um....yeah. Maybe you'll do better next time.

WOULD YOU BE NAE'BLIS?

Um...no thanks.

HMPH.

Well what if the DO let Rand talk in all caps? That might sweeten the pot;)

Weird Harold
12-08-2010, 03:09 PM
I like this idea, also poses the question that we have probably all have wondered at some point in time: If the Creator did not want the Dark One to ever break free, why make his prison even remotely accessible? This does tend to lead itself to the theories that the DO is integral to existance in some Ying Yang fashion though.
I suspect that the DO's "parole hearings" is either because the Creator is the Ultimate Good and believes even the DO can be rehabilitated/reformed,

OR

The drilling of a pressure relief vent once each Tuening is required to keep the DO from simply erupting on his own in some Super Yellowstone style metaphysical disaster.

subwoofer
12-08-2010, 03:16 PM
I suspect that the DO's "parole hearings" is either because the Creator is the Ultimate Good and believes even the DO can be rehabilitated/reformed,

OR

The drilling of a pressure relief vent once each Tuening is required to keep the DO from simply erupting on his own in some Super Yellowstone style metaphysical disaster.

I dunno about option "B". If the DO erupted, I think it would be like putting a cat in a microwave. Messy, but contained.

Silvertip
12-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Y'know sub, there's times I worry about you.

S

subwoofer
12-08-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm not saying I put the cat in the microwave, per se it is just an example of err... possible outcomes if you will. End of the day, should the DO "erupt" he will need a lot of the TP to clean up that mess. heh:D

Edit- good to see you here:)

GonzoTheGreat
12-09-2010, 04:00 AM
Well what if the DO let Rand talk in all caps? That might sweeten the pot;)You're not original:
She nodded. She couldn't help herself. The room seemed to be growing darker. That voice of his . . . it sounded, just faintly, like that of the Great Lord.

lurk
12-09-2010, 04:32 AM
But as far as we know the DO is imprisoned outside the pattern and not connected to it except for the bore. Talents like foretelling, dreaming and Mins aura reading are related to the pattern. Question is: when does making the bore become part of the pattern. because you bore to something NOT connected to the pattern. So can it be foretold?

Daekyras
12-09-2010, 05:51 AM
lol. I can just see it.

I HAVE BEEN A GOOD BOY THIS TIME. SURELY I HAVE EARNED MY FREEDOM BY NOW.

Um...but you tried to destroy the Pattern again. And you ordered your followers to kill millions of people.

LAST TIME IT WAS BILLIONS.

Um....yeah. Maybe you'll do better next time.

WOULD YOU BE NAE'BLIS?

What does it entail?

UNLIMITED...(SNICKER)....POWER....(SNICKER)....AND IMORTALITY.....(SNICKER)

Sounds Good.

SO, WOULD YOU BE NAE'BLIS?

Yes.

YEAH, SO WE HAVE AN ACCORD THEN?(SNICKER)

Yes, we do. Wait! Why are you laughing? Hold on, Would you kill me when you are released even if I WAS Nae'blis?

HMPH.

Possibly more likely.

Weird Harold
12-09-2010, 07:10 AM
I dunno about option "B". If the DO erupted, I think it would be like putting a cat in a microwave. Messy, but contained.

'Contained' about like a water heater on Mythbusters, you mean?

Seriously, google Yellowstone Volcano and look at the maps of where the last eruption buried everything in up to 12 meters of ash. Or watch mythbusters and extrapolate from what happens to a water heater with the safety valve disabled.


But as far as we know the DO is imprisoned outside the pattern and not connected to it except for the bore. Talents like foretelling, dreaming and Mins aura reading are related to the pattern. Question is: when does making the bore become part of the pattern. because you bore to something NOT connected to the pattern. So can it be foretold?

The desire of the researchers for a gender neutral power can be predicted; their search for the geneder neutral power can be predicted. The effect of tapping into the DO's prison on the Pattern can be predicted.

Not being able to predict the DO Himself is a minor detail -- His effect, or Shadow, can be foretold and His Minions are still tied to the Pattern.

subwoofer
12-09-2010, 08:27 AM
'Contained' about like a water heater on Mythbusters, you mean?

Seriously, google Yellowstone Volcano and look at the maps of where the last eruption buried everything in up to 12 meters of ash. Or watch mythbusters and extrapolate from what happens to a water heater with the safety valve disabled.



Yeah, IIRC they broke something, made it seem like a boob installed the thing and it became a rocket..."The suspense is killing me... you could order a pizza by the time it came back down". I took a boilermakers course for my work too. Something about the pressure of steam. I remember thinking that if the valve on the boiler at work went, it would suck for me because I would be at ground zero. But the DO's prison is completely sealed. It is supposed to hold all his badness inside. Yeah some numbnut drilled a hole but the patch is supposed to hold. Kitty- boom. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFVA389S8Go&feature=related) er... warning, there is a mature rating on that link...

lurk
12-09-2010, 09:21 AM
The desire of the researchers for a gender neutral power can be predicted; their search for the geneder neutral power can be predicted. The effect of tapping into the DO's prison on the Pattern can be predicted.

Not being able to predict the DO Himself is a minor detail -- His effect, or Shadow, can be foretold and His Minions are still tied to the Pattern.

Not saying you are wrong, but somehow predicting desires sounds iffy to me