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View Full Version : Fanfic, and a few other points


Terez
12-03-2010, 11:34 AM
There are a couple of reasons why we should probably avoid discussing fanfic on the TOM board:

1. This is a site for theorizing, and while fanfic can be a fun way of expressing a theory, it's quite a bit different from the general atmosphere that we strive for here, which is one of debate. With all the noobs we have had lately (hi noobs!) the nature of the typical discussion here has changed a good bit. The fanfic business is an extreme of that, even though Seeker started it - Seeker has been around for a long, long time but he has been rare on the theory discussion boards in the last several years.

However, fanfiction is perfectly welcome on Theoryland - on the Your Fiction (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14) forum. Feel free to link to it in your sig, but keep in mind that we find overly long and/or flashy sigs to be annoying in general. If your sig is longer than your average post...well, you know. If you write a bunch of fanfics, make an index for them and link to that in your sig.

2. RJ was anti-fanfic:

SciFi Channel Chat at Dragon*Con 28 June 1997 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan/msg/f71e8869a978604f)

Rand: How do you feel personally about fan fiction such as drawings and music about the wheel of time?

RJ: I enjoy hearing music about the Wheel of Time and seeing drawings about the Wheel of Time. As far as the fan fiction goes - that is, stories - please remember copyright, guys. To protect my copyright, I have to keep on top of anyone who violates it. So, no fan fiction using my characters or my world. Sorry. Using the ornaments out of the books is a different matter. That is a violation of copyrights, trademarks. When I say I like seeing art about the Wheel of Time, I mean art that the fans created themselves. And remember guys, you can't try to make money out of this stuff.

Wotmania and Dragonmount Interview 9 December 2002 (http://web.archive.org/web/20030201171359/www.dragonmount.com/Interviews/2002-12-09_rj.aspx)
(http://web.archive.org/web/20030201171359/www.dragonmount.com/Interviews/2002-12-09_rj.aspx)
Q: How do you feel about WoT-oriented fan fiction?
RJ: I am really only barely aware that it exists, I'm afraid, and the question is a delicate one. I don't go looking for it, but if I find out that someone is writing using my characters, and publishing it (including posting it on-line) then I MUST do something about it as a matter of protecting my copyrights. (Although this is a different matter, some other time, I'll go into why pirating books and stories to post them on-line is no different from taking somebody's ATM card and making a series of withdrawals from their bank account. Whenever I see anyone post a defense of pirating, I really, really want to get my hands on his ATM card and PIN.) Writing in my world is a different matter I think; my lawyer may tell me I'm dead wrong on that. The one thing I do try to keep an eye out for is /slash/ or KS fiction using my characters. If you want to write erotica, fine. I like reading erotica, sometimes. But if you write erotica using my characters and post it, I WILL find you, and I will come down on you like the Hammer of God. I've found some very raunchy, and very badly written, examples of that, and I don't like it a bit.
Now, it is possible to read between the lines here and determine that RJ didn't really care about fanfic - that he just felt obligated to denounce it when put on the spot publicly, likely because that's what he was advised to do by Tor's legal team. I think RJ knew that fanfic was essentially harmless, and he said as much here:

Netherlands tour April 2001, Rotterdam - Aan'allein reporting (http://members.casema.nl/e.f.delaat/rotterdam.html)

A question was asked: how afraid are you to read something a fan wrote and see that it has become part of your book?



Pratchett said things about the people no longer knowing the rules of the game, about the suggestion that ideas are worth money etc.


(The talk continued in the direction of fanfiction, with Jordan talking about stacks of paper he sometimes received. Sitting there I felt certain the female dragon debate I'd given him was doomed, but listening to this again now, I have better hopes.)


RJ: ... people occasionally send me various compilations of FAQs and things of that sort they've done about the books, or analyses of the books, and I will occasionally read that if I have time, but fanfiction, or other fiction, or 'I've read this book and would you please tell me what you think of it?' or stories, it gets returned to them. I do not read it, I'm sorry. It's not because I think that anything is going to compete with my works, it's not, but it's because what Terry said, there are bozos out there.


I was accused in an anonymous letter to my publisher, of plagiarizing. That The Dragon Reborn was plagiarized. Now this infuriated me to such an extent that I'm going to incredible efforts to find out who'd written the damned letter. I knew it was a nutcase bozo somewhere, because I knew that every word was ripped out of the inside of my skull. And I'm going to find him, and push him into a corner, and beat him half to death with my walking stick [laughter], because he made me that mad, that he would make this accusation against me. And this was ... in an anonymous letter, who is not making any effort, he's not trying to make any money out of it, he just wants to cause trouble.
Some might say it is a generational thing - most younger authors (including Brandon) seem to be more fanfic-friendly than the older generation. But the point stands that RJ was typically anti-fanfic, so it behooves us to confine such things to the Your Fiction forum which has substantially less traffic than this one.

Some feel very strongly about the second reason, but I tend to think that the first reason is the most important. Theoryland has always prided itself on the fact that our discussion is more analytical and in-depth than it is at most places. We like to make thorough arguments and provide quotes to support them. I have noticed that there are a number of Younglings with the potential to contribute significantly to that kind of discussion, but I would like to encourage everyone to try (even Seeker). That doesn't mean everything has to be all stiff and formal (I'm looking at Deadsy - I love her random senseless humor), but I think most of us oldtimers would love it if we could get away from the fanfic and character-driven discussions, and back to the detailed mystery analysis. Because
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k320/jalapenoguy/SeriousBusiness.png

—Terez, Hard Core Fan Freak

jana
12-03-2010, 12:20 PM
Can you re-post this in a way I can work with?

Debating and analytical jargon isn't my niche and I might get cooties if I try it.

Seriously though, I think you should delete the "and character-driven discussions" part. I could tolerate the rest of it. I'm guessing (yes, only guessing. I don't have statistical analysis to back this up) 90% of the people who come here love to talk about the characters in addition to debating about how many pricks of slimey black stuff a non-Creator-avatar can withstand in their brain before they start seeing pink elephants everywhere. (I wonder if each thorn has the same mass, and if their masses are different for each saidin-wielder. Perhaps it goes by percentage of total body mass. Maybe the key to fighting off madness was staying under 100 pounds and that's why Taim never went mad. He was just really skinny. It would also explain why Bashere didn't recognize him in Caemlyn. He was 90 pounds when Bashere knew him, then packed on a bunch of weight after he got his immunity to the taint. It could explain some of his emotional issues too. He was probably teased for being so scrawny).

There is an entire theory post and a faction post for crunching numbers and being generally nutbarish. I'd think the forums could have half the posts be about that and people would be okay.

Jonai
12-03-2010, 12:29 PM
If you really think about it, most of Felix's posts are basically fanfic. :D

SixPips
12-03-2010, 12:31 PM
I read the post twice, but failed to see the "few other things." only a bash on fanfic with some nice quotes.

Just reading this thread alone has made me not like writing as much, for the first time through you made me feel like a plagiarist, as though I were committing a crime by writing "what if's" for my favorite series. :(

I understand that Robert Jordan was very protective of his creative license, as he should be, and that he did not read fanfiction. I do not blame the man, and he had every right. However, I firmly believe he would understand the mind of a fifteen year reader who is so caught up in the series and speculation that he writes down his ideas in an fanfiction to share. It is said that the greatest form of flattery is imitation, and I believe that to be true.

I also wonder what the point of having a "Your Fiction" tab is when you have mounted such a strong defense against fanfiction. Jana did not even know we had a fanfic tab till she saw my post in the ToM board.

While I understand there are guidelines on the forum and proper decorum to be followed I would like to point out that there have been nearly a thousand views of the fiction written by myself and Jana. There have been exactly two complaints, one by Ishara, one by yourself.

Should we keep our fan fiction out of the ToM forum? We spurred new conversations, took old ones in different directions, and brought up new ideas and theories. Just read the comments tabs on the ToM reference link pages we wrote to show people where our fanfic was.

One can only wonder if Demandred is in Murandy or if he is Mazrim Taim for so long. One can only rant about Egwene, Gawyn, and Elayne so long. And yes, one can only talk about how awesome Mat is for so long.

We kept the discussions on track, rather than allow them to devolve into "what would make a cool chess set?" Fun topic yes, but relevant to theories? No.

I guess what I am trying to say is, let the fanfiction have a chance at visibility, and let the other users have an opportunity to enjoy it.
In the end a thread is only a three to ten word sentence...it isn't like it is balefiring the boards and noone can ever beat the dead horse theories that have been regurgitated in a hundred different ways on here ever again.

Casabamelon
12-03-2010, 01:33 PM
Right of the gate, T acknowledged some newbies may not know where the Your Fiction forum is. That's why she specifically linked it.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then you should imitate. Fan-fiction is playing with someone else's toys. You're not imitating, you're copying. That being said, I don't think it's wrong (though I have zero desire to read it), but don't pretend you're flattering the author by writing a Rand/Mat/Perrin three-way. Or writing the end to a book that isn't written yet (unless it's aSoIaF). You're indulging yourself, plain and simple. In the case of aSoIaF, it's all you'll probably get.

And yes, I viewed the fan-fic threads that popped up, I skimmed the comments to see if anyone would take the authors to task, and refrained from posting because it would essentially be trolling because I didn't trust myself to be civil.

Yes, there is only so much discussion that can take place without new data, but there isn't a "WoT Chess Set Ideas" board. There IS a fan-fic board.
________
DRUG TESTS (http://drugtestingkit.org)

jana
12-03-2010, 01:39 PM
don't pretend you're flattering the author by writing a Rand/Mat/Perrin three-way.

Ew.

Replace Perrin with Bela and I'd totally read that.

Jonai
12-03-2010, 01:41 PM
Ew.

Replace Perrin with Bela and I'd totally read that.

You have no standards. Now if you rep Perrin with Demandred riding Bela...

Sukoto
12-03-2010, 02:03 PM
I've written some fanfic myself. I didn't post it online. It was pure self-indulgence, no doubt about it. I think there's nothing wrong with writing fanfic, as long as certain rules are followed:

1. Don't try to publish it or make money off of it in any way.
2. Don't ask the original author to read it and tell you what he/she thinks.
3. Share your fanfic only in circles/forums where it is welcome.
4. Fully acknowledge that you are shamelessly hijacking someone else's creativity.

As long as these things are understood and followed, then I think fanfic is harmless. And I agree that, here, it should be contained within the Your Fiction forum. Let the Lord of Chaos not rule Theoryland.

Ishara
12-03-2010, 02:21 PM
I read the post twice, but failed to see the "few other things." only a bash on fanfic with some nice quotes.

The other things were about the culture and intent of the ToM Board, and the Other WoT Discussion Fora in general.


I also wonder what the point of having a "Your Fiction" tab is when you have mounted such a strong defense against fanfiction. Jana did not even know we had a fanfic tab till she saw my post in the ToM board.
Well, with a few small exceptions (true until a few months ago) the "Your Fiction" Board was home to lots of original thought, with a few WoT fanfic stories thrown in - it's not meant to be just for WoT fanfic, it's meant to be any fiction that members want to write.

That you and others didn't know that it existed is hardly the fault of anyone but yourselves. It's fabulous that you've to TL and found a home immediately on the Discussion Boards, really. But take the time to explore the other parts of the Boards and you'll find lots of fun stuff! Generally speaking new Boards are created when there is a need for them, and the "Your Fiction" Boards are an excellent example of that. It was created to keep the other Boards for other purposes. I'm failing to understand the reticence to post there.

While I understand there are guidelines on the forum and proper decorum to be followed I would like to point out that there have been nearly a thousand views of the fiction written by myself and Jana. There have been exactly two complaints, one by Ishara, one by yourself.
I want to make something very clear here. Do not misconstrue my request to consider moving your fanfic off this Board as a complaint. In fact, I was very careful to be sensitive to the fact that you or jana may take it as a criticism. My suggestion, and T's first point have nothing to do with your fanfic, and everything to do with where you are posting it. They were not complaints.

One can only wonder if Demandred is in Murandy or if he is Mazrim Taim for so long. One can only rant about Egwene, Gawyn, and Elayne so long. And yes, one can only talk about how awesome Mat is for so long.
About 10 years myself, how long for you? Really, this is why we're here. This is our reason d'etre and the reason we feel that this, more than any other place online, is our home. Because we can wonder and rant and discuss for as long as we want about whatever mystery we want. That's the whole point here!

We kept the discussions on track, rather than allow them to devolve into "what would make a cool chess set?" Fun topic yes, but relevant to theories? No.
But sidetracks can turn into the most interesting debates we've had - they're not necessarily a bad thing. Not everything has to be relevant to theories, just most of what happens on these Boards should. I think that's what sets us apart from the other communities, it's far less character based and far more Socratic. We ask why.

I guess what I am trying to say is, let the fanfiction have a chance at visibility, and let the other users have an opportunity to enjoy it.
In the end a thread is only a three to ten word sentence...it isn't like it is balefiring the boards and noone can ever beat the dead horse theories that have been regurgitated in a hundred different ways on here ever again.

I get that you're feeling defensive, but with respect, no one is saying you can't post it. T just presented a few reasons to consider before posting it and a suggestion to post it in the appropriate forum. Also, you may feel like theories have been "regurgitated" but some of us have been beating the so-called dead horse for years and still find ways to incorporate new information, new brainwaves and new ideas into our theories. Again, that's what we do here. It's not so bad, and frankly, we like it. ;)

Jokeslayer
12-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Should we keep our fan fiction out of the ToM forum?

Basically, yes. Because there's a board where it's meant to go.

Terez
12-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Debating and analytical jargon isn't my niche and I might get cooties if I try it.
You do fine at debating - I've seen you do it before. You at least know what happened in the books, which is more than a lot of people can say. Dunno what you mean about 'analytical jargon'. It's not required.

Seriously though, I think you should delete the "and character-driven discussions" part. I could tolerate the rest of it.
What about the Egwene-hating and Rand-worshiping? Because that's what I'm talking about basically - I like this character/hate this character. I seem to remember you not being fond of it much either. Yes, we know you love Moiraine, but your posts on the subject are not really the problem IMO, though others might disagree.

If you really think about it, most of Felix's posts are basically fanfic. :D
No, Felix's posts are loony theories. There is a big difference between that and fanfic.

I read the post twice, but failed to see the "few other things." only a bash on fanfic with some nice quotes.
It's not a bash on fanfic. I write fanfic too; I don't have anything against it personally. But I'm not the important one here.

While I understand there are guidelines on the forum and proper decorum to be followed I would like to point out that there have been nearly a thousand views of the fiction written by myself and Jana. There have been exactly two complaints, one by Ishara, one by yourself.
That's great. Link it in your sig, and maybe you'll get just as many view on the YF forum. This forum is not the appropriate place for it. That's just how it is. Just because people aren't complaining here doesn't mean that they're not perturbed. The old-timers are pretty much all in contact in private. Ishara is just the only one who has been bold enough to say anything about it.

We kept the discussions on track, rather than allow them to devolve into "what would make a cool chess set?" Fun topic yes, but relevant to theories? No.
I agree. That was the 'few other things' you missed - the TOM forum has devolved into something that is very unlike what Theoryland is widely known for. Fanfic is only a part of that, but it's been a rather huge and distracting part recently.

I guess what I am trying to say is, let the fanfiction have a chance at visibility
Link it in your sig - that's visible enough.

Terez
12-03-2010, 03:52 PM
Rand/Mat/Perrin
Ew.

Replace Perrin with Bela and I'd totally read that.
Replace him with Galad and I'd read it. If it was written well, that is.

Yellowbeard
12-03-2010, 04:17 PM
I guess what I am trying to say is, let the fanfiction have a chance at visibility

there's a whole forum for it. seems quite visible to me.

the ToM forum is for discussing the new book.

i don't see anybody saying you can't post fanfic here. TL just likes to keep itself neat, tidy, and organized, therefore the forums have specific purposes. it would be mighty nice if everyone honored and followed the forum structure for the sole purpose of being courteous to the other users.

jana
12-03-2010, 04:38 PM
What about the Egwene-hating and Rand-worshiping? Because that's what I'm talking about basically - I like this character/hate this character.

Say that then. There's a big difference to me between "character-driven topics" and "Egwene-hate topics." I have a cold. I'm allowed to be all mad-like. I also just discovered a democrat crawling on my hand. That's what they're called in Nebraska. At least by the old people. The weird thing about that is my grandma is a Democrat and she still calls them that, even though she hates the things.

http://boxelderbug.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/boxelder-bug.jpg

Terez
12-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Say that then. There's a big difference to me between "character-driven topics" and "Egwene-hate topics."
The latter is just an example of the former. I meant what I said - if all we have to talk about are the various attributes of certain characters, then we might as well hang out at Dragonmount. Just saying.

jana
12-03-2010, 04:51 PM
The latter is just an example of the former. I meant what I said - if all we have to talk about are the various attributes of certain characters, then we might as well hang out at Dragonmount. Just saying.

You said "if we could get away from the fanfic and character-driven discussions, and back to the detailed mystery analysis."

Nobody wants character topics to be "all we talk about" but the way you worded it sounds a lot different than that.

dominominic
12-03-2010, 04:57 PM
I think I've been guilty of this. I rewrote the plot of tEotW as a poem and I didn't know where to post it as it wasn't really fan fiction as such. I settled on posting it in the General WoT board as it seemed the best fit to me and I put a link in ToM board since everyone else seemed to be.

If either of those posts need to be moved or deleted I've no problem with that. I'd do it myself if I could.

Terez
12-03-2010, 05:11 PM
You said "if we could get away from the fanfic and character-driven discussions, and back to the detailed mystery analysis."

Nobody wants character topics to be "all we talk about" but the way you worded it sounds a lot different than that.
Okay.

jana
12-03-2010, 05:12 PM
Okay.

:mad: I don't like how you spelled that :mad:

Terez
12-03-2010, 05:14 PM
:mad: I don't like how you spelled that :mad:
OK.

dominominic
12-03-2010, 05:21 PM
:mad: I don't like how you spelled that :mad:

I don't like how you spelt spelled.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-03-2010, 05:30 PM
As T said: Just because you haven't seen complaints doesn't mean they don't exist. This thread is to let you know that more than one or two (or even three! gasp! I know, it's shocking!) people think that the TOM board is not the place for fanfic.

For me fanfic is a question of freedom of expression versus plagiarism. Im my head plagiarism almost always wins. in the case of WoT-inspired work, there is one exception: I quite like the Shayol Ghul Gazette installations - to be found on the Your Fiction board. Go read them, there's almost a decade's worth (or is it more now?) of cool stuff. In general though, I don't like the idea of fanfic, if I stumble on it, I tend to just click away as soon as possible. But that doesn't mean that I think all fanfic should be banned or something. I would just like to not be overwhelmed by it here on this board.

T's suggestion of linking your fanfic in your sig is a a good one: in her sig you see her body of work in WoT, other users have links to their blogs, hobbies and interests. Of course this doesn't mean that everyone now HAS to enter their whole (creative) lives in a link in their sig, just... please think about it before you scoff at the idea?

Terez
12-03-2010, 05:44 PM
T's suggestion of linking your fanfic in your sig is a a good one: in her sig you see her body of work in WoT
Actually only two things in there are mine - the interview database and the point of view index. Thanks for reminding me I needed to update it - Dragonmount has a new version of the FAQ.

Mam A'Lemur
12-03-2010, 07:40 PM
I don't like how you spelt spelled.

...wait, spelt? Are you making bread? I'm confused. :p

Yellowbeard
12-03-2010, 09:02 PM
i think some fanfic can be cool. but if it deals with the main story, then i don't pay attention.

fanfic about an AoL AS trying to save a certain segment of people from a trolloc attack and going out in a blaze of glory against sammael to allow them to escape, or an unknown male channeler (or forgotten to history at least) desperately clinging to sanity for a just a few more seconds, knowing he's going to succumb soon, but linked with the queen of manetheren to help her channel enough power to destroy the invading trolloc army...things like that if well written could be cool. doesn't really have anything to do with the plot, but part of what we all love about WoT is the world RJ built for it. fanfic could let people enjoy that world more.

fanfic about things directly related to the WoT story plot...barf. i want to read RJ's WoT story...not someone else's version his story.

Sei'taer
12-03-2010, 11:50 PM
Just to add my voice, even though I wasn't one who complained, I do support what others are saying, fanfic and other fiction works should be posted here (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14). It's not out of the way and there is actually some pretty good stuff in there, some of it's dusty, sure, but it's still good.

Isabel
12-04-2010, 12:27 AM
I would also like to add my voice to the people who think the ToM forum is not the place to put fanfiction.

If you put it on the ' your fiction' forum, than I can properly avoid any fan fiction.

jana
12-04-2010, 03:50 AM
http://thefurtiveglance.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dead-horse.jpg


I couldn't sleep because I had a terrible nightmare that Oklahoma "ran" out onto the field riding horses, and when questioned on the fairness of it, Brent Musburger replied "I don't see the problem. There's no conspiracy."

http://www.markreubengallery.com/bs_football/football_best/0443.jpg


When questioned, this is how Bo Pelini replied:

http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/sp/ap_photo/20101031/all/l4814481.jpg

SixPips
12-04-2010, 06:46 AM
I wanted to start off with an apology, I felt like I had seen many people who enjoyed the fan fiction and several who had said they would never have seen it had it been in the "Your Fiction" boards. I was defensive about the location and the visibility but I should not have been. I will be sure to post properly next time in the proper message board.

As for the people who think fanfiction is a form of plagiarism... the simple fact that it is referred to as fan fiction, and therefore gives credit to the original source, makes it quite clear that it is not plagiarism, as per the 1978 Copywright laws. It is akin to a person doing scientific research in the realm of Microbiology who expounds upon the discovery of DNAi and RNAi and gives proper credit to the person who's discoveries their work was built upon.

Does fan fiction use the creative license of the original author? of course. Is it used to make a profit, or to in some way harm the original author's reputation or social standing? If not, then it is not plagiarism.

I may be over reacting to the people who refer to fanfiction as plagiarism, but I very strongly dislike that blanket allegation and all the connotations of thievery associated with it.

GonzoTheGreat
12-04-2010, 06:58 AM
RJ: I am really only barely aware that it exists, I'm afraid, and the question is a delicate one. I don't go looking for it, but if I find out that someone is writing using my characters, and publishing it (including posting it on-line) then I MUST do something about it as a matter of protecting my copyrights. (Although this is a different matter, some other time, I'll go into why pirating books and stories to post them on-line is no different from taking somebody's ATM card and making a series of withdrawals from their bank account. Whenever I see anyone post a defense of pirating, I really, really want to get my hands on his ATM card and PIN.) Writing in my world is a different matter I think; my lawyer may tell me I'm dead wrong on that. The one thing I do try to keep an eye out for is /slash/ or KS fiction using my characters. If you want to write erotica, fine. I like reading erotica, sometimes. But if you write erotica using my characters and post it, I WILL find you, and I will come down on you like the Hammer of God. I've found some very raunchy, and very badly written, examples of that, and I don't like it a bit.Have someone use yout ATM card and your PIN number to withdraw money, and then see whether or not you still can use that money yourself.
Then have someone copy a text you have on a computer, and try whether or not you can still use that text yourself.

This might possibly give some people a hint that there might possibly be some sort of difference, possibly. Or maybe not. Some people are not all that good at taking hints.

The Immortal One
12-04-2010, 09:12 AM
I'd just like to add my voice. Our fiction should be posted on the correct board.

Admittedly, I only very rarely look at the 'Your Fiction' board and I did enjoy browsing through some of the recent FanFictions, but there have simply been far too many posted here in the last few weeks.

Terez
12-04-2010, 10:10 AM
http://thefurtiveglance.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dead-horse.jpg

They're not beating a dead horse, darling; someone mentioned that only one person was complaining, so others decided to chip in and be public about their complaints to show that it wasn't just Ishara.

TankSpill
12-04-2010, 10:14 AM
I enjoyed your fiction SixPips, but I guess I can certainly see the point that it at least should be in the 'Your Fiction' board. However, I think linking to it from your signature would be a good idea - I tend to click on peoples' signature links if they look interesting, and I believe other people do as well.

As far as the whole copyright thing goes - I understand the mentality of respecting the authors' wishes, and since we are a fansite to a particular author, it makes sense for that author's wishes to be respected here. However - and I mean no disrespect - RJ's comments about plagiarism, copyright infringement, and the like are extremely outdated. I find it enlightening that all those quotes are from a very long time ago, back well before the current and modern debates on product identity, copyright, etcetera. I cannot help but believe that in a fully digital world, RJ may have different things to say about this subject now if he were alive. And comparing it to taking someone's debit card is just a little goofy - again, no disrespect, he comes from a time when the reproduction of works of art, literature, and music worked much differently than it does today.

I think Sukoto said it best earlier in the thread when he laid down what seem to me to be the common sense Laws of Fanfic Writing:

1. Don't try to publish it or make money off of it in any way.
2. Don't ask the original author to read it and tell you what he/she thinks.
3. Share your fanfic only in circles/forums where it is welcome.
4. Fully acknowledge that you are shamelessly hijacking someone else's creativity.

The Immortal One
12-04-2010, 11:15 AM
On a fairly different topic, though not different enough for me to start a whole new thread; I am just beginning a new re-read and I think I would like to make loads of comments about just about everything I read (to ask a few questions, but mainly just to see everyone elses opinions on certain parts).
Should I post it on the WoT discussions board, or on the ToM board?

I would like to hear opinions and have questions answered with all the information from all the currently published books and don't want to put any spoilers on the WoT board; but then again, I will be quite a while on the earliest books and wouldn't want to annoy anybody by putting ancient (well nearly 2 decade old) questions and thoughts on a 'new book' forum.

Thoughts?

yks 6nnetu hing
12-04-2010, 11:41 AM
On a fairly different topic, though not different enough for me to start a whole new thread; I am just beginning a new re-read and I think I would like to make loads of comments about just about everything I read (to ask a few questions, but mainly just to see everyone elses opinions on certain parts).
Should I post it on the WoT discussions board, or on the ToM board?

I would like to hear opinions and have questions answered with all the information from all the currently published books and don't want to put any spoilers on the WoT board; but then again, I will be quite a while on the earliest books and wouldn't want to annoy anybody by putting ancient (well nearly 2 decade old) questions and thoughts on a 'new book' forum.

Thoughts?

well, we used to have a scholar board just for that - chapter by chapter comments/discussions but I think it died in the last board transfer. I think as it is now, you probably want the general WoT board - seeing as we generally merge the latest-book board with the General WoT board about a year after the book's come out. The reason for the newest book board is for people to be able to avoid spoilers if they haven't read the book yet (unlikely as that may seem right now, there ARE people who haven't, yet :p)

another point to raise: rating threads. once one person has rated a thread, it shows that rating for all users and no-one else can rate it. Tam's working on getting the bug/setting fixed but until he does, please use your discretion? Until now, for me at least, the best way to report spambots has been to look for 5-star threads.

Ishara
12-04-2010, 11:45 AM
Ooooh. We've done this a couple of times, Gonzo the latest, I think. Post on the General, and by the time you get to ToM spoilers, hopefully it'll be far enough out that it won't matter.

Looking forward to your posts!

Daekyras
12-04-2010, 11:48 AM
like tankspill above I really liked the stories that were posted here in the last few weeks. I know i wouldn't be able to write anything half as good. However, if they were in the wrong place, they were in the wrong place. Just don't put them there again. Simple. I had noticed but as a lowly member wasn't going to correct anyone.
I also don't see anything wrong wit T pointing that out and her original post was in no way an attack, vindictive or insulting. To complain about it now seems childish and petulent.

Tamyrlin
12-04-2010, 12:19 PM
I am in the midst of a two to three week period where I've had to focus on work and have little time for TL related issues. That being said, I just wanted to make a comment on Fan Fiction.

I would like to see the Fan Fiction posts end up on the Your Fiction board. Then, if the writers of the FanFic would like to start one thread on ToM where they can reply and post links to their FanFiction, that would be fine with me. Although, it makes sense that the actual discussion of that fiction should end up on the Your Fiction board where other members of the community can participate.

Let me know if there are questions. In fact, it would be useful for someone to find all of the ToM fan fic posts...so I can move them and that thread used to link to them could remain the thread where FanFic gets linked...if that makes sense.

Ok - back to work.

TankSpill
12-04-2010, 01:29 PM
On a fairly different topic, though not different enough for me to start a whole new thread; I am just beginning a new re-read and I think I would like to make loads of comments about just about everything I read (to ask a few questions, but mainly just to see everyone elses opinions on certain parts).
Should I post it on the WoT discussions board, or on the ToM board?

I would like to hear opinions and have questions answered with all the information from all the currently published books and don't want to put any spoilers on the WoT board; but then again, I will be quite a while on the earliest books and wouldn't want to annoy anybody by putting ancient (well nearly 2 decade old) questions and thoughts on a 'new book' forum.

Thoughts?

I think this would go really well in the General WOT board, and I would happily follow (and comment on) another re-read (other than Leigh's).

jana
12-04-2010, 03:27 PM
They're not beating a dead horse, darling.

I've decided I like it when you call me darling so I won't argue this.

dominominic
12-04-2010, 03:55 PM
Are there moderators or admins here? Because there's a lot of stuff that could be moved out of the ToM forum. Including the Encyclopedia question thread for one. And the humorous moments one for another.

Or are we just trying to draw a line under it now?

jana
12-04-2010, 04:03 PM
Are there moderators or admins here? Because there's a lot of stuff that could be moved out of the ToM forum. Including the Encyclopedia question thread for one. And the humorous moments one for another.

Or are we just trying to draw a line under it now?

Neither of those things should be moved. The humorous moments topic is in the ToM forum so people can include stuff from ToM. Same with the Encyclopedia thread.

dominominic
12-04-2010, 04:04 PM
Neither of those things should be moved. The humorous moments topic is in the ToM forum so people can include stuff from ToM. Same with the Encyclopedia thread.

Shouldn't they be in General?

Edit: I'm just asking - not trying to antagonise anyone.

jana
12-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Shouldn't they be in General?

I totally answered that already =oP

dominominic
12-04-2010, 04:12 PM
I totally answered that already =oP

I found your answer unsatisfying! ;)

Terez
12-04-2010, 04:14 PM
Are there moderators or admins here?
Just Tam and Nae'blis. For now.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-04-2010, 04:25 PM
The humorous moments was on General to begin with but got moved here because people started adding funsies from ToM. In other words, spoilers.

Davian93
12-04-2010, 08:46 PM
If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then you should imitate.

Its not....its dumb and boring.


Oh, and on the thread topic thingy, I completely agree that Fanfic has no place on the ToM board. There's a "Your Fiction" board for that. Although that board was actually created for the members' OWN fiction, not derivative WoT fanfiction but whatever. Its not that we dont like Fanfiction (though some of us dont) its that this board is not the place for it.

Sorry to be late to the discussion.

Casabamelon
12-06-2010, 08:52 AM
As for the people who think fanfiction is a form of plagiarism... the simple fact that it is referred to as fan fiction, and therefore gives credit to the original source, makes it quite clear that it is not plagiarism, as per the 1978 Copywright laws. It is akin to a person doing scientific research in the realm of Microbiology who expounds upon the discovery of DNAi and RNAi and gives proper credit to the person who's discoveries their work was built upon.

Does fan fiction use the creative license of the original author? of course. Is it used to make a profit, or to in some way harm the original author's reputation or social standing? If not, then it is not plagiarism.

I may be over reacting to the people who refer to fanfiction as plagiarism, but I very strongly dislike that blanket allegation and all the connotations of thievery associated with it.

Uh, I hate to have to point this out, but the only person to use the term 'plagiarism' here you, and the RJ quotes. You may want to keep your arguments to what is actually being said.
________
VAPORGENIE HIGH (http://vaporizers.net)

SauceyBlueConfetti
12-06-2010, 04:49 PM
been meaning to say this...Jana: welcome to the Big 10 ;)


And another voice that doesn't speak up much agrees:

fan fic to the appropriate place please. Wading through the posts is hard enough here...try to use the appropriate boards.

Anyone see my point here? Anyone? Hijacking is one thing (me+big 10 reference = whaaaaaa? by most folks)but there is a place for fan fic, regardless of some of our opinions of it

SixPips
12-07-2010, 11:13 AM
I am in the midst of a two to three week period where I've had to focus on work and have little time for TL related issues. That being said, I just wanted to make a comment on Fan Fiction.

I would like to see the Fan Fiction posts end up on the Your Fiction board. Then, if the writers of the FanFic would like to start one thread on ToM where they can reply and post links to their FanFiction, that would be fine with me. Although, it makes sense that the actual discussion of that fiction should end up on the Your Fiction board where other members of the community can participate.

Let me know if there are questions. In fact, it would be useful for someone to find all of the ToM fan fic posts...so I can move them and that thread used to link to them could remain the thread where FanFic gets linked...if that makes sense.

Ok - back to work.

I had initially done exactly that, with the fiction in the proper section, and a thread on the ToM board. Is this essentially giving me the go ahead to continue to do that?

Jokeslayer
12-07-2010, 11:20 AM
I had initially done exactly that, with the fiction in the proper section, and a thread on the ToM board. Is this essentially giving me the go ahead to continue to do that?

I wasn't clear if Tam meant one thread per fanfic author or a single fanfic thread in which the authors would announce their fics.

SixPips
12-07-2010, 11:26 AM
I wasn't clear if Tam meant one thread per fanfic author or a single fanfic thread in which the authors would announce their fics.

You know, that makes much more sense. Only comment on the Fiction page, and only post new hyperlink announcements on the "New Fanfiction" thread. It would be clean.

Davian93
12-07-2010, 11:27 AM
I had initially done exactly that, with the fiction in the proper section, and a thread on the ToM board. Is this essentially giving me the go ahead to continue to do that?

Not exactly...all of the reference posts (with the link to the actual fiction on the "Your Fiction" board will be contained in one thread instead of spread around in a couple dozen that clog up the board. At least, that's the gist of what I'm getting from Tam's post. Otherwise, we have the same problem we have now with all the "Come read my fiction" threads clogging up the board.

Terez
12-07-2010, 11:27 AM
Even that seems unnecessary to me. Just link it in your sig. I'm actually thinking about trying to recruit some of the fanficcers from tor.com to post on the YF board, so that it's not completely boring. There's not really a central place for WoT fanfic at the moment on the net, though you can find some here and there if you look.

Davian93
12-07-2010, 11:29 AM
Even that seems unnecessary to me. Just link it in your sig. I'm actually thinking about trying to recruit some of the fanficcers from tor.com to post on the YF board, so that it's not completely boring. There's not really a central place for WoT fanfic at the moment on the net, though you can find some here and there if you look.

Not to devolve into this but do we really need a central place for WoT fanfic. The whole point of that Fiction board was for non-WoT original fiction posted by members as many of them are writers in their own right.

SixPips
12-07-2010, 11:37 AM
Not to devolve into this but do we really need a central place for WoT fanfic. The whole point of that Fiction board was for non-WoT original fiction posted by members as many of them are writers in their own right.

The truth of the matter is people don't particularly notice non-WoT related fiction on theoryland. They come to see, analyze, and think about Wheel of Time in every imaginable way. I have had hundreds of views on the fanfictions I have wrote, yet the single chapter of the novel I have been working on that I posted on here has seen only twenty or so views.

as to Terez, what we were looking at was a single thread, not multiple threads by different users. That one thread would be shared by the different users to post their fanfic hyperlinks.

Davian93
12-07-2010, 11:40 AM
The truth of the matter is people don't particularly notice non-WoT related fiction on theoryland. They come to see, analyze, and think about Wheel of Time in every imaginable way. I have had hundreds of views on the fanfictions I have wrote, yet the single chapter of the novel I have been working on that I posted on here has seen only twenty or so views.

as to Terez, what we were looking at was a single thread, not multiple threads by different users. That one thread would be shared by the different users to post their fanfic hyperlinks.


Regardless of the # of views for the fiction, that was the purpose/point of that board. I'm merely stating that so everyone remembers as most of the new TLers werent around when it was created/conceived.

jana
12-07-2010, 11:46 AM
Not exactly...all of the reference posts will be contained in one thread instead of spread around in a couple dozen that clog up the board.

I was just planning on bumping mine once I finished the story I posted, unless there's an actual "all fan fic" topic for it by then (which I'm doubting).

Tamyrlin
12-07-2010, 11:49 AM
You know, that makes much more sense. Only comment on the Fiction page, and only post new hyperlink announcements on the "New Fanfiction" thread. It would be clean.

One thread - multiple links, and new replies would push the post back up to be seen when someone makes a new post. Like I said, that works for me.

Ishara
12-08-2010, 09:29 AM
Thus spaketh the Creator.

morat'corlm
12-08-2010, 09:59 AM
“As the Creator commands,” _______ said eagerly, bowing her head, and echoes of her ran around the room, though _______ sounded sullen, _______ desperate, and _______ oddly thoughtful.

I had my choices, but perhaps it's best to leave as MadLibs. Um, so nobody gets... mad.

Davian93
12-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Thus spaketh the Creator.

At what point do 1/3 of the Heroes rise up against the Creator only to be cast out of Theoryland and sentenced to eternal damnation?


In this case, damnation meaning relying solely on a DM account to discuss WoT.

SixPips
12-08-2010, 10:07 AM
At what point do 1/3 of the Heroes rise up against the Creator only to be cast out of Theoryland and sentenced to eternal damnation?


In this case, damnation meaning relying solely on a DM account to discuss WoT.

Perhaps they can give your acnt name a new title :) <Insert Name> The Forsaken. They campaign similarly too.